dctobe2003

sup guys just something to confirm, i been told by all acura dealerships that acuras don't sell below invoice. because there's no profit. what y'all think?

rets

IMO, if Acura has such good sale months on 3G TLs, why would Acura like to sell one below the invoice? This ain't Maxima...

DMZ

Why do you think you never see thngs like:

'GET $1000 CASH BACK ON .....' in Honda and Acura commercials?

The way these cars sell and with their quality reputation, there's no need for them to have stoop to Nissan's level to get people in the doors.

TSXReefer

My local dealer, Ann ARbor, Michigan, was stuck on list price for an '05. So I got $1,500 off sticker on my '05 TSX by emailing 5 dealers closest to me, but outside of Ann ARbor. Contact them through the Acura web site, (www.acura.com, then enter your zip in the find dealer box).

Here is a copy and paste from my email: "I will probably buy a TSX 6 speed without navigation. I may purchase a '04 now, or order an '05.I live in Ann Arbor, but with incentive will drive down for test drive and buy from you."

Four of the five responded with a discount offer. A dealer 48 miles away offered $1,500 off, one 24 miles away offered $1,200 off sticker, the other two offered $1,000 off. " I drove down and gave the $1,500 off guy a $500 deposit on an '05, which I now have.

I am sure I could have gotten a bit more off with some haggleing, but did not feel like generating ill will. I did my test drive with the dealer that got the deal.

Good luck.

Slinks

It'll probably be hard for you to get it below invoice since they have good demand on them.

I got mine below invoice just after christmas (05 non-nav 29800 price + 200 doc + TTL) so its definitely possible. Just a matter of good timing (and good negotation skills wouldn't hurt either)

Slinks

BTW...There is profit under invoice. Its called holdback, which is about 3%. Furthermore, at any point in time, there could be other manufacturer-to-dealer incentives on selling a car, or on reaching a volume quota that the public is unaware of.

Legend2TL

The only Acura's I've heard of that went for below invoice and sometime below holdback were the 1st gen RL's.

Legend2TL

This is true, when my dad bought a Accord SE in 2000, the price was below invoice minus the holdback. The salesman was pretty candid and said there was direct dealer incentives for some Accords and Civics.

It was the year Honda was trying to reach one million cars sold in the US, they only offered the incentives on certain Accords, I tried pretty hard to get a great deal on a Accord V6 EX and the salesman would only reduce the price a little.

jhan1102

how much does Acura sales person make per car?

I was told that they make 10% of the cost above invoice price. true?

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

What Slink said. Even if the Acura/Honda dealer sold you the car at invoice pricing, he still would be making a profit. He wouldn't be making a huge profit, but still a profit nonetheless. As Slinks said, the holdback is about 3%. So on a $35,000 (MSRP) car the holdback would be $1,050. Subtract that amount from the invoice, and that's the "dealers cost" of the car assuming there are no floorplan fees or any other fees.

BstonBruin

What Acura dealership in MA did you get you car at?

Slinks

I got it at Acura of Boston. Theres also one other person I know that got a similar deal at AofB (after I told them how I got it). Actually said other person got it for slightly less than me but also had a trade-in so that might make the numbers messy.

One thing was my deal was contingent upon me buying a car off the lot. They said they wouldn't be willing to discount a vehicle as much if they had to order it. Which tells me that they had some kind of end-of-year incentive.

Also if you read the pricing-with-nav thread, someone there posted that they bought a nav for 32k at clair acura.

ndabunka

Below Invoice or MSRP? Below MSRP...Of course. Below Invoice....Maybe a Honda but NOT an Acura. BstonBruin's - your car a NAVI? If not, then that's not under INVOICE

jime

In January 1996 I purchased a 95 Acura Legend 6-speed coupe for about $1,100 under the invoice. It was the last 95 the dealer had, the model year had changed and it had been on the lot for 10 months so they took a loss just to move it off the lot. I knew I had a deal when the salesman’s opening offer was $100 over invoice.

But I only got $200 off MSRP for my 04 TL 6-speed in December of 2003. With the TL being one of the 10 hottest cars (least average days on the lot) right now, you are not going to get one anywhere near invoice.

It’s called supply and demand.

PTN

i have no idea what this means.....

but, i got mine under invoice and you have to catch the dealer at the right time. they have to need to move lots of units for their own various reasons in order to get the price this low. a good place to start is to contact the people at the dealership responsible for internet type purchases. these people will give you the best deal depending on how hard up they are to sell. contact as many dealers as you are willing to travel to so you can have them bid against each other. let them know you are in contact with several internet fleet managers.

also, try to buy toward the end of the month. this is when they will most likely deal with you if they haven't sold many cars that month. however, if they sold alot, then you might be out of luck.

good luck playing the "game".

madehtsobi

i got my 05 wdp tl non navi for $33,500 drive out over here in houston

it was the lowest price i found in town

and it was only a couple days before new years

nobody else could be it so i took it and drove off w/o putting any money down...felt like i stole a car off the lot...ehhe...

ndabunka

PTN - Care to support your claim? Which car did you get? an 05TL without NAVI? If so, then your saying that you paid under $29,982? Pretty darn good but doubtfull. Have a scan of the sales paperwork available to back up your claim? PS - Would LOVE to hear if someone could substaintiate these claims.

jchcmax

I've prefer not to go through the "sales" department, I got hooked up with the fleet people through my credit union. I did not pay sticker price.

fasttl

Honda tends to have a very low inventory of cars compared to other brands. Selling at invoice is market driven. Most dealers will not budge around much when they have a hot commodity on their hands.

Slinks

Its interesting how some people are so cynical when someone states the price they paid. If PTN says he got his under invoice, why don't you just take his word for it? Whats his reason to lie?

Also invoice is really 29982+570 destination = 30552. MSRP is 33470.

Basically I paid ~750 under invoice (~550 if you add in the doc fees), plus MA TTL.

Heres a link to my "proof". I whited out a lot of it cuz I don't really care for people to see my personal information.
http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/bc/38431f8...FTEACBG7aEhccv

So back to the questions at hand:
"Do acuras sell for below invoice?" Yes
"Will a local dealer sell me one for below invoice?" Probably not
"Will my dealer sell me close to invoice?" More likely
"How do people get their acuras for under invoice?" Very good negotiation skills or dealer has some incentive to sell the car quickly.
"Can all dealers sell their cars for under invoice & make money?" Probably not. My guess is my dealer had some selling incentive that not all dealers had.
"If I tell my dealer Slink from acurazine got a tl for 29800, will they match the price?" You can try but I doubt it
"Does end of year/quarter/month matter?" Based on the price I got at end-of-year, I'd guess that it can really help out.

Slink

PTN

dude, i'm just relating my own personal experience. CHILL OUT. what would i have to gain by posting a bunch of bullsh**? i'm not scanning anything just to "back up" my claims because you decided you think your the expert on all the prices in all parts of of the country under all conditions. how can you be so ignorant as to think you could possibly have any idea what my own personal circumstances were when i bought my car.

my post was to try and relate something that might help someone else out based on what might be possible if you play your cards right. maybe you got a crappy deal and someone took you for a ride so now your just bitter. i don't know, but maybe you shouldn't come on so strong.

anyway, like i said before, hopefully, my previous post will help someone who is actually interested in learning how to get a good deal. there is of course some luck involved as well because you have to be in the right place at the right time. however, if you follow the advice on this website, (http://www.car-prices-costs.com/car-buying-guide.html), i am willing to bet you will always do better than someone who just walks in the door and tries to buy a car without doing their homework. good luck and happy shopping.

PA_Rocky1_CL

I am picking up a Agean Blue 05 with Navi from a large Acura Dealer in Philly tomorrow for $550 over invoice, plus 700 in extras and destination. Not too bad. I haggled with a few dealers and got this one to come down a few hundred.
It's true, the car is so hot the dealers are not doing much budging. If you shop your lowest quote from one dealer, I got several dealers to match it. I did this sale all from my computer without going to this dealer. So I'll update tomorrow about my experience at the F&I, but my salesman told me what I'll be paying out the door line by line and no crap fees. I am skeptical but I'll find out tomorrow.

Acura_Kid

Q. How would anyone know what a car really costs the dealer. Unless you are the dealer, there are too many operational items that affect the cost of a car for the dealer. TL's are "market value" cars.

When the salesguy says, "this one for $350 over invoice", let me not be the 1st to tell ya, that's a bunch of crap.

CFIMIKE

In Southern California, TLs sell like hot cakes. The dealer in Costa Mesa had ONE on the lot that was not sold. We got it for $500 below sticker and considered ourselves lucky.

In contrast, the local Nisson dealer had acres of Maximas. And those idiots were trying to sell them for ABOVE sticker! Plus, the young salesman at Nisson thought he had a real "live one" hooked. I finally told him to stop trying to hustle me and walked out. I had already pretty much settled on the TL although, in fairness, the Maxima is a pretty impressive machine.

Local situations will differ, I'm sure, and so will your experiences. It's supply and demand, pure and simple.

Hope this helps.

kosh2258

NO car sells below the dealers actual cost, regardless of the impression that dealers create by saying they're selling below invoice.

If the dealer didn't make some sort of profit, there'd be no reason to sell the vehicle or be in business.
It's all a game of numbers. When a dealer sells a car they're making money, period. Some more, some less, but profits every time.

When they say they're selling below invoice they really mean they're selling below what the car would NORMALLY cost them. But if the factory is pushing big incentives their way to move the iron the car actually costs the dealer much less - the REAL invoice price that the buyer will never see.

PA_Rocky1_CL

Ok, My update on my sales experience today. Got to the dealer, reviewed all the papers.....declined a few fees with no pushback, drove out the door for 35800.
The car is damn sweet. All the freakin gadgets will take a weekend to figure out though. All in all the salesman was very honest and upfront about everything.

PTN

True.

Also true.

Not Exactly True.
The "real" invoice price that you mention above IS known. it's the difference between the invoice price, which you can research, and the "holdback". This gives you the actual price that the dealer paid for the car. Even if the dealer sells at invoice he makes at least the holdback, which in Acura's case is 3% of the base MSRP.

kosh2258

While the information regarding hold back and such is accessable, the best anyone can do with it is estimate what the dealer is really paying for the vehicle. There is no piece of paper invoice that shows the exact amount the dealer finally paid for the vehicle. And if you factor in any incentives from the factory that may be applied as a lump payment to the dealer, it gets even cloudier. That's what I mean by the "real" invoice price.

GoBig

Same here, but only on my RSX Type S. I bought both the same day.

BoneZTL

I spent about a week solid hunting down an 05' TL, a common color configuration, with NAVI, out of the 18 dealers I called, 14 had the car I wanted.

I live in Northern California, so there is quite a large number of dealers up here, which can sometimes be great. I went through every dealer, and pretty much the bottom line came down to this.

If you want a NON-NAVI car, sure we'll talk close to invoice pricing. If you want a NAVI car, dream on.

One dealer when I called the fleet manager, I told him what I wanted to pay and he responded with "Maybe you should do some market research on this car before we talk again" and he hung up on me.

Some dealers were really nice, wanted to work with me but refused to go below a set price they had for the NAVI model. In the end the story was the same, if it was a NAVI car, you'd be lucky to get within $1,000 of invoice.

I did ok for my 05 Navi, I got it for $600 over invoice, but it was a fight to get that price, and I had previous car purchases from the dealer so they were a bit more forgiving. Had I not been, it would have been much higher.

I'm not sure what other areas are like, but I'll tell you from experience, negotiating a NAVI car in NorCal was a real pain in the arse. When I bought my IS300 a few years ago, it was no problem, I called up 2 dealers, and by the 2nd dealer I had the price I wanted... the Acura, was a lot more challenging.

-BZ

Larry Geller

On Monday, in Queens, NYC, I bought an '05 DGP/Parchment Auto w/NAVI, wheel locks, ash tray, lighter & mud flaps for $31,995.00 before tax. I am picking it up tomorrow!

DMZ

Queens ??? That can only be Paragon.

Hope you don't get presented with any of their famous "Oh, And By The Way, There's Also's" when you pick it up tomorrow. Make sure you check the car over THOROUGHLY! Leave NOTHING to chance with them. Let us know how it turned out.

Good Luck ........
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fengxDynasty

yes, please keep us updated with your transaction. very nice price though.

goldendragon576

if you had a product you could sell for full price, would you put it on sale if you didn't have to? If joe doesn't buy because there's no sale...jane behind him will easily pick it up. Honda and Acura's sell, unlike other manufacters.

Larry Geller

No, not Paragon (fortunately)! I get my cars thru a broker in Long Island City (United Buying Service). He is able to get almost any car below cost (his only failure that I know of is that he couldn't get my brother an '05 Prius--he had to go to Maryland to find one!). Anyway, I picked the car up on Friday, and, there in the trunk, were the all-weather mats & the trunk liner! So I also got those thrown in, making the deal even better. I LOVE THIS CAR!!!

mrobinsn

Without knowing other factors, why not?

If I *knew* that someone would walk in the door a minute later and that *I* would be the salesperson helping them and that they *would* buy it ****AND*** I didn't have any others in stock, then no I wouldn't sell it.

Say I have a car worth $30K to the dealer and anything above $31.5K I'll pocket as the salesperson. Now I have my floor. Sure, I'd rather sell it for $33 than $32, but maybe I don't know if someone else is coming. Maybe I've sold 19 this period and if I sell another I get a bonus. Maybe we've got a bunch coming and so why pass up $500, I'll get both profits. And maybe there are a lot of salespeople so I might not be the one to get that next customer.

So many reasons why.

Also someone mentioned selling below invoice....as far as below cost there are a few other things to consider besides the holdback, incentives, etc. One is the opportunity cost - having a car in inventory takes up space etc which would be lost if the lot is full. Also as the car gets older a) the dealer is paying interest on it and b) it has the danger of being out of the year/model cycle.

justinkwaugh

Fwiw, dealer holdback on acura's is 2% of base MSRP not 3%. But they also get 1.5% of base MSRP for "floorplanning allowance".

So.. total of 3.5% of MSRP.

If you take a base TL w/o NAV and you factor that in with 3% profit for dealer, a good target price would be $30,433.92 (including destination charge)

For the TL w/ NAV the target price would be $32,237.45

At that price the dealer is making at least 3% and possibly more.. there are incentives that are practically impossible to find out.

HWY AZ

Justin can you explain what a dealer holdback incentive and floorplaning entails?