DarkBlue

If (or when) you receive a letter from the dealership, you should consult an attorney, and discuss your options.

As I stated to you earlier, since you had BMW check the vehicle over and they didn't declare a major problem, you really didn't misrepresent the vehicle at trade-in. The service dept. did what they considered necessary to return the vehicle in proper working order to you, the customer.

Most service dept. will inform u of the severity of the problem and if your decline to repair/correct the problem, they promptly make a notation in their database.

They (I assume) were confident that they corrected to both their satisfaction and yours. I know for a fact that most service departments won't do major repairs if they can avoid it. (Lazy?)

As for the wording used in the documentation, yeah, it could be interpreted as shady. But hey, you did what most dealerships do that everyday as a normal course of business. In your defense, you did go and have the vehicle checked, and after determining its remaining value to you, decided to find a better vehicle to invest your time and money.

It's not so much a case of 'buyer beware' as it is a case of 'sooner or later'. I am not a lawyer, but I have a friend (owns a dealership) and
family in insurance (SF and FI) who deal in vehicles all day.

They all thoroghly inspect vehicles before accepting them in a transaction.

Don't Panic!!! If you do go to court, stand your ground.

Besides, most likely, the guy you be playing phone tag with has his ass in a sling and his job is on the line for making the deal FUBAR.

RickRoush03

a. your not a lawyer

b. neither is the GM

c. The GM is getting his info just like you are, from his lawyer friend thats not on the clock, my cousin owns a dealership, i've seen how this works

d. you tell your lawyer that you are gonna refer this GM to him - your lawyer, and you are out of the loop at that point. then they can talk to your lawyer etc. once it gets to that point i'll beet it'll be case closed as it'll be delt with behind closed doors.

e. they can not tow your car for any reason other than if the dealership itself gave you a loan, which they don't, and you didn't make payments and defaulted. none of this is the case so it can't be done.

This guy is just trying to scare you before he really does have to hire his attorney of which this won't be worth his time as his lawyer has already advised him. Were talking what, $5k - $10k to fix the problem, of which they can turn around, sell the X5, make up some lost cost, and it'll still be cheaper than sueing you and all the hassle. Plus, the longer they sit with that X5 the less its worth. They'll prob just send it to auction and be done with it.

You aren't an attorney, you hired one, let him talk to them from here on out, trust me, your gonna slip up and say or do something that you shouldn't.

You aren't going to court, trust me. It'd have to get way out of hand for that to happen, and if your lawyer and his lawyer are half way competent, it won't happen.

Just my .02

houdaman

Thanks for all your inputs guys, some really intelligent posts!
ill keep you all updated...

Trelos74

I've been following this post and it's pretty f***ed up what your going thru with this dealership..All I can say is good luck with this situation and keep us posted..Hope it all works out for you..

SGT SLAUGHTER

I'm guessing that you've only had WONDERFUL experiences with car dealerships, and they are always looking out for you! News Flash, they are all crooks, and even though Houdaman didn't intentionally try to screw them, it is nice to see one go sour in the dealerships favour, he doesn't deserve to be called a thief.

FightingTL

I hope you get this out of what has been posted recently.


If you get towed call the police because your car has been stolen.

They fucked up, they're pissed, fuck them.

FYI I would stop talking to them and not think about it again. You have plenty of proof that you took it in as a concern and you were given it back from BMW in working order. Dont ever offer more information than is asked, and go from there.

ogiewon

Hmmmm, while you paid for the car in full, the real question is who has the title for the vehicle? Dealerships often hold the title until all of the other financial paperwork clears. If you don't have the title yet, the dealer may still technically own your TL. If so, then they won't be "stealing it" if they tow it away. Also, they have the VIN, and could easily go over to an Acura dealer and simply get a key made for it.

Be careful and good luck!

priggly

The greedy Toyota dealer is simply trying to intimidate you into taking the responsibility for their poor decision.

You acted in good faith and no liability therefore accrues to you under the caveat emptor doctrine. The "as is" comment you appended to the sales document simply reinforces this and in no way implies you had foreknowledge of a defective product.

At the time of accepting your trade, it was the resposibility of the Toyota dealer to ascertain any significant defects in the trade and by accepting it absolved you of responsibility.

Tough luck, Toyota. Go hassle some other poor sucker!

If they continue to hassle or try to intimidate you, tell them you will sue them for harassment and intimidation as well as abuse of legal process. Let them know under no circumstances will you be pushed around. If they even think about trying to "repossess" your car by towing it, file a criminal complaint with the police for theft.

It's fine for these crooked car dealers to peddle junkers to unsuspecting buyers with impunity but when the shoe is on the other foot (through no fault of your own) it's a whole different matter as the hypocrites whine and bleat.

And for those of you calling this gentleman immoral, wake up! He did nothing wrong and is currently the victim of a less-than-forthright car dealer attempting to backtrack for its sloppy trade-in evaluation practises. Tough.

banelba

Bro sleep ty and dream about all the upgrates that u want to do to the car. About the title, He has his proof of payments, and I'm sure he had it finance trough another party. So the lien holder will sent him his title as soon as they received the last payment. Stop taking call from the dealer and once again fuck them. I believed u have full coverage, so if ur car goes missing, call Popo to report it, then ur insurance. The insurance Cie will put u in arental for 30 days then pay off the car if they don't find it. If the car is found later one at the dealership, I hope that then they really have good lawyers to dig them out of that mess. Like everybody else, they have to obey to rules. The only time they can tow ur car beside the 5.0 for DUI or driving without insurance, is when u don't pay and they have a court order to repossess it.
The moment that u shake hand with the dealer and drove off the lot, was when u really finish dealing with them. unless them give u a lifetime free oil change or other kind of service. Boddie, fuck them and if they bother u, forward ur phonr to mine for couple days and believe me u would never ear from them again, ever.
At their next call, tell them that I'll see u in court and that they can KISS UR ASS. Don't even bother taking ur plates off or unpluging the computer. Why put ur self trought all that hasle.
ENJOY UR CAR.
By the way"Click it" or "Click2"
I hope that the day u'll be F***** by a dealer u would come down here to let us know about it, because I'll be the 1st one to be laughing my ass off at u. Support ur pears. The only time anything as to be disclose from the seller is for the odometer, due to possible roll back, and for salvage, in case the car was in an accident and was previously salvaged. They could have ask for vehicule history, service history and many more, but never did. But 2 weeks later come back to me. What is telling u that on saleman took it out on a joy ride and really mess it up.
Boy once again enjoy ur car, stop talking to them, you do not have anymore business with them, and hook up that ride. Remember I can always give u number and u can foward ur calls to me.

houdaman

thanks for the support guys...
I put the $5800 I owed the dealer on my Visa, and Im paying that off.
The title is completely mine.

Riu

If they tow. It will be theft because you own the car now.

gurneyeagle

"And for those of you calling this gentleman immoral, wake up! He did nothing wrong and is currently the victim of a less-than-forthright car dealer attempting to backtrack for its sloppy trade-in evaluation practises. Tough."

This has been an interesting thread, especially when you note the ages (where listed) of the members commenting. Seems everyone is an attorney.

Let's cut to the chase.

Legally, you are probably okay. The dealer accepted the trade; i.e. sale/transfer of title with the notation "As is".

Morally, it's a whole different ball game. Houdaman - if you want to convince yourself that you did nothing morraly/ethically wrong, continue the sob story for us.

You knew the car had problems, that's why you unloaded it.

To quote:

"Heres what the BMW papers said:
"Check engine light on. Engine misfiring. Perform leakdown test to find cyl 1 is leaking 28% and cyl 2 8%. Recommend removal of cyl head for further inspection. Possible require engine short block."
BMW replaced all spark plugs and said it ran fine...."

There was still a question as to the condition of the block. Changing the plugs was the first shot at repairing the engine. You knew there was something wrong with that car.

There is a big difference between legality and morality/ethics. Generally, one who acts in a moral/ethical way rarely has legal problems. However, legality doesn't necessary equate to morality. It's called squeezing through loopholes. Happens everyday.

What it really boils down to is taking responsibility. Whether a dealer, let alone "all" dealers, are crooks is irrelevant. It is your actions that are in question here. If the dealer had stuck you with a TL that had engine problems, you'd be crying like a nine year-old school girl right now - and justifiably so. But ethically, you can't have it both ways. I wonder what your feelings would be if you were purchasing the X5?

This thread is really a sad commentary on society. You young guys think you know everything. The comments about you being 19 years old really are dead on. Another kid driving first a BMW X5, and now a TL, another example of immature, irresponsible behavior. Everything is me, me, me.

Yea, I know I sound like a parent, but it sounds like your parents didn't spend enough time teaching you any responsibility. I pity you for that.

If the moderators even allow this one to get posted, I'll be amazed.

Oh by the way, I am a graduate of Loyola Law School, as well as Tulane Business School, so I do have a pretty good idea of what I am talking about.

Good luck with this problem. I just hope you learn something from it as well.

jimmyly

well i donno if i'm too late or not but i've took business law classes and heres my opinion... its 5:09am here so dont mind me if i make mistakes =)

Government Regulation of Business and the Professions

To become a auto sales manager a valid license is required. For this particular profession you must have the minimum required skills. Which means an auto sales manager must take from of specialized education or training as well as some form of formal examination or testing to satisfy the requirement that the person possess the necessary skills.

I’m pretty sure Toyota have guidelines they must do before a “trade in” can occur. For example: the vehicle must be fully inspected before the vehicle can be approved and you must provide prove of ownership etc. Before the sales manager can approve your vehicle qualifying for the “trade in” he should’ve done a full inspection. In this case you never mention anything besides him/her test driving your vehicle. Before signing the contract you put the following.

Quote: “Since car is used, sold as is.”

As you mentioned the sales manager had noticed this and said it was not necessary but it was ok to put it on the contract which means he approve of changed made to the contract.

Quote: “ You don’t need to put it there, but go ahead.”

Now as a auto sales manager for Toyota he fell under the average for his profession as an auto sales manager. As an average auto sales manager he should’ve done the following before approving the vehicle.

Contact BMW and get a record of the car.
Contact your auto insurance for the history of the vehicle.
Done a full inspection on the vehicle. If he did this he would noticed the problem.

Misrepresentation

Misrepresentation is a statement or conduct that may be either innocent or fraudulent and that induces a person to enter into a contract. Normally, a person is under no obligation to make any statement that may affect the decision of the other party to enter into the agreement. Any statement made, however, must be true. Otherwise, it may constitute misrepresentation.

The auto sales manager never asked you anything nor it was stated in the contract. Therefore there was no misrepresentation.

Privity of Contract

Once a valid contract has been negotiated, each part is entitled to performance of the agreement according to its terms. In most cases. The contract calls for performance by the parties personally.

The Nature of Breach of Contract

The express or implied refusal to carry out a promise made under a contract is a form of discharged. When the refusal occurs, it creates new rights for the injured party that entitled that party to bring an action for the damages suffered as a result of the breach. Under certain circumstances, a breach of contract may also permit the injured party to treat the agreement as being at the end, and to be free from any further duties under it. The courts may either grant compensation for the injury suffered as a result of the non-performance or, in some cases, issue an order requiring performance according to the terms of the contract by the party who committed the breach.

If the auto sales manager breaches the contract , which means he wants the vehicle back under whatever terms and takes you to court for not returning the vehicle. Just read the contract and make sure theirs nothing saying he can take back the vehicle etc. If you do go to court, I’m pretty sure you have a good chance to win and as for compensation theirs not much you can do besides the lawyer cost, and if you work the money you lost for not going to work and attending court. This is easily said by saying “plus cost”. for example: Keeping the vehicle plus cost, means they have to let you keep the vehicle and pay for everything else.

Consumer-Product Quality and Performance Protection

The first action to protect the consumers in the product-performance area took the form of consumer-protection legislation at prohibited sellers from exempting sales of consumer foods from implied conditions and warranties available under the Sales of Goods Act. A comparatively recent trend in consumer-protection legislation has been towards the expansion of buyers’ rights and sellers’ obligation with respect to consumer goods that fail to deliver reasonable performance, or that prove to be less durable or satisfactory.

If the sales manager keeps harassing you, tell the judge how are you able to enjoy the vehicle if he/she keeps harassing you (…proves to be less satisfactory).

if you still need more... then pm me i guess lol hope it helps in anyway

jb_turner

Houdaman is not a thief as a previous poster alluded to. However people have been giving Houdaman "legal" advice who here is an attorney?

-- Houdaman lives in a different Country (Canada) and their consumer laws may be different than what we "enjoy" in the States.
Houdaman may have to hire an attorney this is >>this is not advice however it is fact<<

-- The dealer where he purchased the TL from may be networked with Acura Dealers in that area and they may get the word out to the other service departments about him (Automobile Dealers communicate with each other) >>this is not advice however it is fact<<

-- Houdaman may unfortunately have to shell out some cash one way or the other to get thru this quagmire >>this is not advice however it is fact<<

03CoupeV6

I see what you are saying, but I just can't agree with it. The Toyota dealer in question does just this to people every day. It's just a taste of their own medicine. BMW said the car ran fine, the Toyota dealer accepted it. End of story, really.

shaker31280

My legal advice would be to watch what you say on this board. Only say stuff that you wouldn't mind if he printed it out and brought it to court.

Granted he will never find this, but you never know and I wouldn't take any risks.

gurneyeagle

"I see what you are saying, but I just can't agree with it. The Toyota dealer in question does just this to people every day. It's just a taste of their own medicine. BMW said the car ran fine, the Toyota dealer accepted it. End of story, really."

Whether the Toyota dealer does it everyday or not (anyone have proof of that statement?) is irrelevant to the question of ethics and morality on houdaman's part. Houdaman says that BMW said the car ran fine. They also said it may need a new shortblock.

Like my post said, he's probably covered legally. Personally, I hope he is, but not be familiar with Canadian law, who knows.

Let me also clarify that I'm not trying to crucify houdaman. I'm only calling him out on an issue. Unfortunately, the more he tries to justify his actions (really cover his ass), the deeper of a hole he digs for himself.

Like I said, he is probably covered legally. Let's just not fall in line with his justification of his actions to cover his feelings of guilt.

Clickit02

It’s said, said situation. You try to measure houdaman legal actions against Toyota dealer potential, assumed dishonesty. You are automatically assuming that that dealer is crook. And if he is crook, then it is ok to screw him. By stating that you simply show your own morale. People tend to measure others by their own sets of rules and moral principal.

I totally agree with gurneyeagle. How can you make equivalent between legality and morality in that case? Houdaman did nothing illegal, as far as I see. However, his actions are shady and immoral. That whole thing stinks!

03CoupeV6

Alright, I'm only going to say this once, so read carefully:

You CANNOT legislate morality.

Period. Personally, having bought 8 cars in 4 years, the thought of being able to screw one of the dealers I've dealt with as much as they've screwed me is satisfying.

Boardman

Another tip if it hasn't been mentioned already, cover up the VIN number on the windshield with a bool, piece of paper etc. As long as they don't have a key and can't see the VIN towing with just the plate matching the car is risky for the tow company and many won't tow unless they can see the VIN to be 100% sure. Hope a get this sorted out soon!

automag928

Actually - Caveat emptor is Latin for "let the buyer beware". So strike 1 against the dealer

Here's my problem with this whole situation...maybe because I'm used to a different performance car "group", where leakdown tests were like the standard of how a motor was running.... but I've personally seen a friends car with close to $15,000 in MOTOR work alone (and it put down about 520 rwhp), have a ~20% leakdown test on one of the cylinders, and the motor basically be considered "shot". After our further inspection, it was determined that several of the pistons had melted and actually had a rounded top instead of flat due to detonation in the motor; that is what was causing the air to slip past the piston/cylinder wall and causing the bad leakdown test.

Now, by me knowing this in previous experience, if a dealer told me my car had a 28% leakdown test on one of the cylinders then in my heart and mind I know the internals of the motor is DEFINTELY in question, and more than likely broken and in need of repair. Which leads me to another question, how do you damage a cylinder wall/piston/head enough to get that bad of a leakdown on a X5? Again, coming from the background I have with performance cars, it seems difficult (maybe it just a BMW bad mechnical trait - I dont have experience with BMW motors) to damage a motor that bad if you are just driving a car around and keeping up with regular maintenance? Again, not saying you actually did anything wrong to the car, I just don't reliablity-wise know how BMW motors stack up.

With that bad of a leakdown on that one cylinder (I'm assuming its a 6 cyl x5), did you notice any drivablity issues? Did you notice it was low on power when you hit the gas?

As others have pointed out, yes legally you probably did nothing wrong. Morally/ethically I couldn't have done that, but thats just me, not you. And also as others have said, you are in Canada, not the US, and you need to consult a lawyer and let them handle it from here - I wouldnt waste your time, talking to the dealer, let your lawyer do that. None of us on here can do anything other than give you BS which wont hold up in any court!

Rapid1

pretty serious lack of morality in this thread for sure. All dealers suck because one of em screwed somebody? I bet most of you assholes would scream bloody murder if we were talking race or sexual orientation...

it's too bad it's not illegal since Houdaman's pos could end up being some other person's pos. this pos beemer was Houdaman's, and he just passed it off, knowing it had a potentially expensive issue, and agreed on a value, which he knew wasnt arrived at with a full assessment of the vehicle. Houdaman, not a dealer, started this chain of misfortune that someone is gonna end up with and blame a "stealership" somewhere.

and btw, everyone here thats got screwed by a dealer, dont brag too much about it, just shows what a fool you are. you could have had the pos you bought checked out, just like the dealer should have. if not, you shouldnt have bought it. same with price, do you sign the paperwork under threat of death? haha everything said about the dealer here applies directly to consumers.

ef-tl

This thread is awesome! Trading in your car is like being gay and joining the army: don't ask / don't tell!

I can just imagine going to a dealer and they volunteering all the information that they know about a used car... It would go something like this.

Salesman: "Hi, before I tell you about all this cars great features, let me tell you this: We bought this car from a Hertz auction. When we recieved it, the power steering made noise, so we replaced a hose. That seemed to fix the problem... well, at least it hasn't happened again. Oh, and even though it only has 27k miles, the rotors were worn and gouged pretty bad, so we had to grind them down... but don't worry, they were still thick enough for it to pass inspection *this* time, and we able to save a couple bucks by just slapping the old pads back on. Yes, those are new tires... and a new front drivers side rim. We had to replace that because it was bent... I guess people just don't swerve around big potholes in rental cars do they?!? ha ha ha... one last thing, did I mention the metal shavings in the oil when we changed it? No?"

Customer: <insert sound of sqealing tires out of the dealership here>

My

Stop talking to them, stop posting to this board about it, and have them talk to a lawyer. Opening your mouth is the surest way to do yourself damage...

They're not going to take your car. That would be theft. The only way they can take your car is if they were awarded the car as damages by a court order, and you would be subpenoed (spelling?) for a judgemnent / trial before then. SO, relax about that.

They *might* get a lien against your car, if they got a judge to approve it, I think even without your being aware they were doing so. But, before they could do anything with the lien (collect money or take the car), they'd still have to sue you, and the first step of that process would be you trying to get the lien removed, ostensibly because it is not legal.

drdamian

My friend bought a Dodge Magnum from a dealership a few months ago.. Used, low miles.. the person didn't have it for that long... the dealership told her that the previous owner traded it in bc he wanted a minivan for his family... a few months later she was having powersteering issues... brought it to the dealer.. they told her it was fine and don't worry about it... somehow while looking through the car, she some information on the previous owner.. gave him a call... he told her he got rid of the car bc dodge suxed, and he had to have the powersteering unit change 3 or 4 times.....and the funny thing about the entire situation is that he bought the car and traded it in to the same dealership where she bought it.. they knew full well that there was a problem with the car and thought they could pass it to some girl that they could push around... Houdaman, keep your TL.. don't answer the phone when Toyota calls , and don't call them..... wait to get something in the mail regarding legal action against yourself before you do anything...

ludachrisvt

iTrader: (2)

best. advice. evar.

shut your effing pie hole!

aw1

I think your education in this matter means nothing. Should Houdaman have fixed the X5 before trading it in? If he did that, then why bother spending money before trading it in? Let me ask you this, if your car had the same problems, what would you do? Fix it first then trade it in? I honestly dont think so!!! Everyone trades in their old cars with problem to dealerships. If you say yes you would fix it first before trading in, then you are a lawyer. Full of it.

FightingTL

Believe me, towing a car away that has been paid in full and trying to argue that it's not theft because you havent turned the title in, wont get you too far in a court of law.

It's theft.

The issue here is not wanting to deal with courts, attorney's, judgments, etc.

gurneyeagle

Unbelievable! Simply unbelievable. The lack of moral character here is stunning and frightening.

Screw, or be screwed! You trade in a car with problems, the new owner gets screwed, pure and simple. All the anecdotes about "my friend bought a XXX" are totally irrelevant to the conversation.

Anyone who can justify huodaman's actions on a moral/ethical basis is a sorry soul. Grow up and take some responsibility for your actions instead of whining because the car mommy and daddy bought for you is broken.

This was a deceitful and intentional act that he got caught on. It wouldn't be too hard for someone to print out this entire thread and fax it to every Toyota dealer in the area.

Don't worry, I'm not that type of person, but I wouldn't put it past someone else.

Caveot Emptor my ass, how about the Golden Rule - Do onto others as you would have them do onto you.

One other little gem of wisdom - what goes around comes around. Keep screwing people over, and it will come back to haunt you. You wouldn't even be going through this mess if you had either disclosed the problem or fixed the car properly before trading it in.

But then, it would have cost you money, money you used to purchase the TL. Oh that's right, do whatever it takes to get what I want, and screw anyone or anything that gets in my way. Very mature and responsible.

Like I said on my original post - all you little Perry Mason's running around doling out legal advice are missing the point. Houdaman did something wrong, and got caught. Now he's trying to wiggle his way out if it. He may have covered himself legally, but not in an ethical manner.

You're right you can't legislate morality, but you sure as hell can call a spade a spade.

yangkimchi

Gurneyeagle,

I would respectfully disagree that I feel the original poster is trying to get out of a moral issue. He posted facts on what he did and the resulting actions of the dealer. I wont comment on people saying glad to see the dealer get screwed, but independent of the morality of trading car in, the fact is, the poster was interested in what the dealership could do legally (e.g. tow his car, sue him, etc).

It was the "ethics police" who turned this into a morality discussion, which is fine, but I dont think its right to say the poster was trying to justify his actions morally.

gurneyeagle

My education is relevant regarding discussing legal matters.

What would I have done? Let's look back on what I just did with the CL Type-S I traded in for my TL.

I brought it in to fix a starting problem that turned out to be electrical. I had planned on trading it in before the problem arose. While it was still in the Acura service bay, the used car manager appraised the car. They also had a full record of all maintenance and repairs. I paid for the repairs before consumating the deal.

Prior to the CL, I traded in a Toyota 4-Runner on the wife's Odyssey. I disclosed to the salesman that it had been in a minor accident (rear-ended by a 16 year-old in her brand new Mercedes C-Class who was talking on her cell phone - don't get me started). He chose to not tell his used car manager. When they discovered the repairs, I was confronted with the non-disclosure. Fortunately, the salesman admitted that I had told him about the accident. The sales manager promptly threw in floor mats and the extended warranty.

Those are the only two cars I have ever traded in. Before that, I always sold them to individuals and would never even think of sticking someone with a problem. My cars are always properly maintained. Any problems are fixed.

So don't generalize about what everyone does. There are people in the worls who aren't out to screw other people. I only hope they outnumber some of the dirt balls that seem to participate in this discussion.

Everyone has to live with their decisions. What they don't realize is that 95% of their problems are due to their own actions.

I stick by my previous statement - "what goes around, comes around.

gurneyeagle

Good points yang.

Unfortunately, the original poster has been silent on the issue. My comments should probably be directed at some of the others contributing to the thread.

GPerlInspire

You must go to church every Sunday don't you? And with all the big words you're using, I assume that you're pretty well educated right? Also you coming from New Orleans, I also have to assume that you've been through some pretty rough times because of the hurricanes correct?

I guess my point to you is this, you ARE trying to legislate morality.
"Caveot Emptor my ass, how about the Golden Rule - Do onto others as you would have them do onto you."

We all know that one is from the bible no need to bring it upon a forum like you're so morally forthright.

"Like I said on my original post - all you little Perry Mason's running around doling out legal advice are missing the point. Houdaman did something wrong, and got caught. Now he's trying to wiggle his way out if it. He may have covered himself legally, but not in an ethical manner."

Assuming that everyone one here is or isn't an attorney isn't very mature either. I am not an attorney but I have family members who are attorneys and I know what goes on politically.

"Anyone who can justify huodaman's actions on a moral/ethical basis is a sorry soul."

Who are you to call a sorry soul? You are not GOD, so quit acting and talking like you're handing out judgements.

You taking the moral/ethical side of this particular case isn't going to make others think twice before doing the same thing. The consensus here is that we all thought that it was pretty awesome that someone finally made the car dealership responsible for their idiotic and crooked ways.

Blue_TL

[QUOTE=One other little gem of wisdom - what goes around comes around. Keep screwing people over, and it will come back to haunt you. You wouldn't even be going through this mess if you had either disclosed the problem or fixed the car properly before trading it in. /QUOTE]

You mean, like dealerships screw people everyday? Don't act like it doesn't happen, would you honestly say that car salesmen are generally an honest bunch? What's the goal of a salesmen? To make a profit. Dealerships have earned thier reputaion as a generally shady practice. One in which you have to make sure you are very thorough when dealing with because thousands of people have been SCREWED by dealerships since Ford rolled off the first Model-T.

Now I'm all for treating people as I would like to be treated but then there is a point when that outlook becomes naive. In your nearly 50 yrs on this earth one would think that at this point you would realize that the world does not operate on the golden rule, it operates on survival of the fittest.

Oh, and about the cutting remark about Mommy and Daddy buying his car, read the entire post.

Phrosttz0

hahaha i would just wave the middle finger and there faces and say too bad, that is just a taste of their own medicine

subinf

this keeps on getting better and better

aw1

if you paid for all the repairs before trading in, then you should be the last person to comment on Huodaman's parents raising him. at least they taught him not to get SUCKERED by a car dealership.

subinf

still pulling down good numbers...

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 45 (27 members and 18 guests)
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ludachrisvt

iTrader: (2)

ludachrisvt

iTrader: (2)

beat me to it while i was reading!

gurneyeagle

Great points, all of them. I'm not trying to act like God. I'm trying to make a point. What one chooses to do is their own business. I really don't care. I'm just glad I don't buy used cars anymore, especially from some of the guys on this Board.

Throw out all the clichés. Houdaman got caught doing something that was wrong. It is irrelevant whether dealers do it all the time or not. That doesn't make his action right. No more so than if his TL throws a rod tomorrow.

To quote Alfred E. Neuman - "two wrongs don't make a right.... but three do!"

Seriously, this is the situation - he has admitted the car has problems, didn't disclose those problems to the dealer, and now he has a problem. By doing the "right thing", be it fixing the car, or simply disclosing the problem, we wouldn't be having this discussion, and houdaman wouldn't be having the headaches.

Hopefully there is something to be gained form this, doubtful though. Facing responsiblity seems to be a problem for people these days, ethics/morales/God aside.

What if it was your mother/father/brother/sister who bought the X5? What if the BMW "fix" had lasted for a few weeks in stead of a few days? Who wouldn't be pissed at houdaman then?

All I'm asking is for people to really think about what they are saying, instead of acting off of emotions about car dealers. Drill down to the root cause of the problem.

I'll step down off the soap box now.

BTW - made out okay with the hurricane, thanks for asking.