houdaman

Hey guys, I have this problem and its MUCH appretiated if you read(might be a little long) and leave your feedback pls...

I HAD a 01 BMW X5, I wanted to trade it in for a 6 cyl car, but on Feb 15 I took it into the BMW Dealer because the check engine light was on.
Heres what the BMW papers said:
"Check engine light on. Engine misfiring. Perform leakdown test to find cyl 1 is leaking 28% and cyl 2 8%. Recommend removal of cyl head for further inspection. Possible require engine short block."
BMW replaced all spark plugs and said it ran fine....I drove it for a week, and i was wanting to trade it in anyways, So i found a 04 TL at a Toyota Dealer(this is now Feb21)

We negotiated a deal, and the sales manager drove my car and approved it. I came back the next day to sign the papers. When i signed my car off, i also put "SINCE CAR IS USED, SOLD AS IS".

Yesterday I get a call (March 6) from the salesman saying that we have a problem. They took the car to the BMW dealer because the check engine was on, and the BMW dealer reconized the car, and printed off my invoice for them. The General Manager of Toyota Dealer called me today and explained a Misrepresentation law to me. I told him this" Sir, the car was fine when I drove it, and when your sales manager drove it and approved it, and your calling me TWO weeks later saying I knew the car needed a new engine?" I also added "I also put..Since car is used, sold AS IS". The Manager I think was stumped that I put that AS IS because he replied" WHY would you do that? in 15 years of experience your the first to do that...That means taht you knew something was wrong with the car". He closed off by leaving me with 3 options....
1.Forget the whole thing ever happend and trade back.
2. They wholesale the car and I pay them what they lost
3. They repair it and send the bill to me.
I replied" Ill call you tomorrow" and ended the call there.

I am going to speak to a lawyer tomorrow because its late now, but what do you guys think? Everyone I spoke to said its good i put the AS IS. Am i in the wrong or right?

THANKS!!!!

Riu

talk to lawyer.

houdaman

yeah I will tomorrow, but again its late right now...just thought id get some opinions or maybe this has happened to someone before

SuperShOT

Did the dealer see you write out "SOLD AS IS"?
but you gotta talk to a lawyer anyhow....good luck

automag928

Hmm, my opinion...I sorta had same situation, although the big difference between yours and mine is I knew something MIGHT have been wrong, but I never took my car to the dealer and had them actually check it out, and then go trade it in. I brought it to the dealer I was making the deal with, they looked it over and drove it and we did the deal for the new car. Now my old car could have been troubled or could have been fine, honestly I dont know. Seeing how you actually KNEW that there was an issue with the car and looked into repairing it...then I would have told the dealer when you were going to trade it in. Thats just me...

jam9011

F" them a deal is a deal you sign the title away tell him to sue you. The ass just want to keep his job.

UnsanePyro

Well, you brought it to BMW. They told you that you MIGHT need a rebuild. They installed new plugs, and the car ran fine, and no CEL. Problem fixed in my book

mlody

If you bought a car with problems and wanted to return it 2 weeks later, everybody would laugh at you – just do the same. A deal is a deal – no body was blind singing it.

houdaman

Yes the sales manger saw me write it down...as a matter of fact I remember him going" Oh what are you writing there?" I say"Used car, sold as is, I do it on every car I sell" he replied" You dont need to put it there, but go ahead"

FightingTL

Let them sue you and afterwards request fees after you win.



a.) You took it in and BMW made it clear to you that the problem was fixed.
b.) You dont trade in a car with a guarantee or warranty
c.) You need to talk to a local attorney because I dont know your state's legislation regarding trade ins.
d.) DO NOT GIVE THEM YOUR CAR BACK
E.) MOST IMPORTANT: If they continue to harass you and you can not deal with it hire an attorney and have him be their contact.



Dont let them scare you with anything, AND remind BMW about invasion of privacy, if you're attorney can prove it extends to your relationship with BMW. (Again another thing I dont know)


Lots of options here.

jb_turner

Hey you sold/traded them the car and they are stuck with it so their loss.
What you did is moraly wrong however I feel they are stuck with it.
In the end you may have to invest time and money (lawyers) to defend your actions.

subinf

last time i checked car records were fair game.

SweetJazz

1) Talk to a Lawyer!

2) The BMW dealer fixed the car when you brought it in, YES? Was it still under warranty? The BMW dealer felt that only replacing the spark plugs was the solution. At this point its fixed! Did they advise you to replace the block or is that only a suggestion by the "papers"? You can not speculate on what may need to be fixed.

3) If the roles were reversed the Toyota Dealer would tell you the car was sold AS IS and to have a nice day.

xavier25

and Car dealerships don't participate in morally wrong actions...

As everyone has said though, consulting with an attorney would be your best bet.

taeoug

Well, you "knowingly" traded off your X5 with the repair that was required on it.
Resetting the CEL on vehicles is easy and just getting the plugs change does not mean the problem was resolved.

However, since the dealership signed off on the vehicle and since you wrote "as is" , ultimately it should fall upon the dealership to have done the inspection before they accepted your X5 as a trade. For example, it just like if you buy a vehicle privately. If the sale is finalized and the problems develop with the vehicle afterwards, it would fall upon the new owner's responsibility (ie: dealer).

I would fight it with the help of a lawyer. I think you should win in the end but plead ignorance on what you knew about the previous repairs.

PPLAPW

Like what everyone else has said, you took it in and they fixed, you drove off and later trade it in. The Toyota dealer inspects it and they accept it, AND you write that it was sold as is. I think you will be fine in the sense that its there mistake they need to suck it up.

Maybe the salesperson wants the TL back for himself Maybe its an "inside job"

lowws6

I work at a dealership and this kind of thing happens frequently. When it happens they usualy get us to do a quick fix to get it through the auction to make it someone elses problem, thats no different than what you did to them. They are probably mad because they got played with their own tricks.

dalieu

aint that the truth...

Sugartastic

sorry to hear what happened...but i think that the BMW service center is also playing a part of this ordeal, saying that the problem was fixed. anyway, if you don't have time to find/talk to a lawyer, post your question on expertlaw.com. i've used them and it was very helpful. good luck!

ed99

Hope everything works out and let us know the results. Say I am from Vancouver and which Toyota Dealership are you talking about?? So I would tell all my friends not to go there in future.

Ken1997TL

Ha! This dealership cracks me up. I wonder how many poor saps they sold cars "as is" and leaving people to pay a few grand for repairs a couple weeks later..

03CoupeV6

I'd tell them I'd see them in court if they really wanted to pursue it. The BMW dealer said the engine was repaired, you traded it and they signed a document saying "AS IS".

The Toyota dealership probably thinks they're just scaring you into taking the X5 back and giving them the TL back. Tell them to bite your ass, they signed a contract just like you did. They're just pissed because they don't like tastes of their own medicine.

zhalvaje

Sue the toyota aand after that sue the BMW dealership for giving your invoice to the toyota dealership, its a privacy act violation.

sangwl

by law you don't have to tell them anything about your car. They are a distinguished establishment where they have to figure out the problems on the car at that moment of the transaction.

so in a nut shell, the day they drove your car and tested it, they agreed upon the condition of the car.

they have the right tools and people to test the car in and out,

you are not liable at any means to the dispute.

as the guy that works at the dealer said, the toyota dealer is just pissed cause they got played.

keep the TL and enjoy the thing.

sang

yohan81718

please keep us updated =)
and good luck!!

cM3go

Dealer is stupid. I think you will be alright, just consult a lawyer.

CL Platano

Dealer is retarded , they can't do anything. Hell I traded in my CL and it needed a master & slave cylinder replaced, cv joints, struts and a muffler. If they call again direct them to your lawyer and never speak with them again.

your_mom

Direct them to your lawyer. The facts here are pretty clear - the car was fixed by BMW and ran fine for a week and the Toyota dealership even have an invoice to prove it was fixed.

DO NOT GIVE THEM THE TL BACK!

They are just trying to scare you into giving it back. I'm not sure about your state, but I am 99.9% sure they are hosed. A similar thing happened to a friend of mine when he traded in a 1991 Celica at a Toyota dealer Atlanta. The sales guy gave him a super price on his trade in (about $4,500 on a car worth about $500) to make a deal work. A few days after all the paperwork was signed, the dealer called my friend and told him they made a mistake on the trade in and he owed the dealer $3,000. Long story short, there was nothing legally the dealer could do, although they did harass him for a while with phone calls and letters.

HEK

Did you sign a contract and you have a copy....contacting a good Law firm will get your TL...

ludachrisvt

iTrader: (2)

welcome sarcasm = red text kthxbye

ludachrisvt

iTrader: (2)

oh and the dealer is completely screwed on this deal. IMO you didnt do ANYTHING wrong my friend. The BMW dealer released you of all moral duties when they told you it was in good running order after replacing the plugs. The law in most states, as many of the guys have told you, says that the deal is done and you dont owe them shit . Thats how it would work if the roles were reversed. It's not like the law is set up to protect them MORE than you!

ludachrisvt

iTrader: (2)

Just show them your last invoice where BMW said your car was okay. IMO you shouldn't have to do that but it SHOULD make them stop harrassing you.

khiyal

You have a very valid winning case at hand. Do you have any documentation to show that BMW, "...said it ran fine" ?

This falls under privacy laws, "...printed off my invoice for them." The BMW dealer can print a car record based on VIN number, but not someone else's invoice for someone else.

Subhuman

Most definitely this is a privacy act issue!!
Legally the Toyota dealer has no case whatsoever.No need to even contact an attorney.There are no charges filed against you,merely smack talk.
Legally you likely have a case against the BMW dealer though,regarding dissemination of your personal invoice.That is not a "public" record!

It's a double-win situation for you

LuvMyTSX

You got it fixed before you traded it, and they drove it and approved it, so it doesn't seem like you're in the wrong here. If BMW didn't fix it right when you brought it in, it should be that dealership's problem, not yours. If the check engine light was not on when they drove it, then how would you know it hadn't really been fixed? I think it's BS. Hopefully they can't do anything to you. If I were you, if they take this further, then take up the issue with the BMW dealer since they were supposed to fix it, and you thought it had been fixed before you traded it. I don't understand how they can say you knew something was wrong with the car when you had it fixed before you traded.

csilano

Caveat Emptor
Thats all I have to say. Nice to see the dealer get screwed for once!

houdaman

Well as for the BMW dealership..
-No it was not under warrenty(too many KM)
-Technically i dont have documents saying"it was fixed"..just says that "Recommend removal of cyl head for further inspection. Possible require engine short block".
To my knowledge, that means that they dont know until they take it apart to determine anything, and I didnt want to do that because 1)costed too much 2) It ran fine iwth the plugs changed and CEL light off.
-I beleive when I sign the papers aswell, you give them all the right to know facts or records about your car because its now their car.

I will keep you guys posted, but to many of us here that arent lawyers...seems like im in the right...I just dont want to spend lots of cash on lawyers....Since they also lowballed me on my X5!(gave me $25000 for it...$28000 if i included my rims!... So I had to pay a $5800 diff for the TL!....and the next day they listed my car for $37,000 on their website!!!!!!!!!!!)

FightingTL

They very well may be, that's why I said, "Not sure of your area."

There could be privacy laws specific to his locale. That's why he needs a local attorney, not a bunch of us with legal knowledge trying to help him.

Boardman

A good lawyer should "only" charge you a couple hundred bucks (if that) to give you a quick opinion on this one. I wouldn't leave the BMW store out of the loop as not only did they give someone else a copy of YOUR invoice, they may have made verbal representation your TL dealer is relying on that were not true and/or inappropriate given the situation. Best of luck gettin' this sorted out!

ed99

Dam you got a used TL for just $30800!!! That is a sweet price!! But I guess they took the funds from your X5 and that is why they are selling your X5 for $37k. They probably did not make anything for the TL but to take the huge gains from your X5.