reardley

Wow...I test drove a TL yesterday and was extremely impressed. I've been in the market for a year and finally have settled on my next car: '04 TL of course (purchase btwn now and next summer).

My background: I am in the market for an upscale sport sedan so have driven all the "usual suspects". I'm 35, married & 6'1" so I want a car that has a usable backseat if I'm driving. I've saved for a new car a long time so I can make a cash purchase and am limited by what I believe is a reasonable trade-off of price vs. quality. IMO,
A4 - 1.8T has reliability problems and is noisy; 3.0 gets expensive and still may suffer from Audi low reliability. Low low end torque. Great interior though but back seat gets small (front&rear seat dimension=75.6").
BMW 3 series - Test drove a 325 last weekend and was not overly impressed. My monthly Car&Driver mag states it's the best available but thought the seat leather felt like vinyl (stretched too much), options too costly to outfit like a TL (stereo, trim, etc.). Seats seemed flat and low and small (75.8"). 330 too expensive trade off for me. The TL compares more to 5 series than 3 series.
Infiniti G35 - I couldn't get past the cheap looking and feeling interior. I thought the pseudo-silver switches on the steering wheel and interior console were terrible. I had high hopes but decided not to test-drive after underwhelmed with interior feel (granted, living in Cleveland made me also predisposed against solely RWD - although I would have made the trade off and bought winter tires if I loved the car). Performance may be high but quality interior low. Great interior space however (77.2").
Volvo S60 - Expensive when options and more powerful engine selected. Quality materials but S60 is small (on order of A4, 3 series; 75.9"). Nice driving but no manual on 2.5T engine. Below avg reliability for 2000 (JDPower).
Mazda 6 - great car for price. Cheaper interior materials but if I was limited to a budget of 21K I would seriously consider this car.
Lexus IS - didn't consider for long. Rediculously small backseat (72.9"). Significantly smaller than VW Jetta (75.0") which is cramped.
VW Passat - We will not own another VW. My wife has a '01 Cabrio which is fun when no problems. I have a service list of pages which includes electronic/sensor/gauges problems which are elusive to fix. Check engine light constant problem. Too many friends that have had problems also (JDPwr ranks VW almost last - ahead of kia, hyundai and the like).
Honda Accord - As stated on this board - Accord is fantastic car which is the "value" leader. Unfortunately, V6 auto only. I can't get passed the ugly rear-end and would feel I've sacrificed on looks to save $$$. Roomiest (79.7").
Acura TSX - Tremendous vehicle. Although 4 cyclinder, it didn't feel like one. 6 speed incredibly slick. Cruises at 70mph at 2400rpm (low and quiet). My wife is 5'0" and I really want memory seats on our next car which unfortunately TSX does not offer. If so, I would be hard pressed not to select TSX over TL. Acura quality. Reasonable interior (76.6").
MB C230 - Pushes high toward 38K when any options selected. Small (74.7") so out of contention.

And finally: Acura TL - Awesome car. Compares above any of the above regardless of nameplate. Not vying for "entry-luxury" but true "sport-luxury". All features one could want (except fold-down rear seat). Acura Quality (which cannot be overstated since I've recently been in the service department for my other car often). Interior possibly tops Audi feel and quality. Leather seats soft and plush. Rear seat comfortable. Truck spacious and has horizontal room for golf clubs (lacking in Audi). Solid. Net storyline is that the TL must be compared to next higher level of cars from above nameplates (ie A6, 5 series, MB E320, etc). Saw Parchment and Camel interior and both beautiful (open to personal preference). Blue metallic extremely well done. Sound system wonderful. I could spend 45K for A6, 5 series, etc. but why would I when I can get TL for 33K. For some on this board, this car gets too nice (and $$$) to "trick out" with additional components - that will be saved for the TSX.

Since I'm presently driving an old Honda and have no need for immediate purchase, I will place an offer for the local dealer and explain to contact me when the time is right when they want an additional sale. I will purchase a 6MT with all-season since I don't want to replace the tires in 15-25K miles. This will be my first Acura.

Bitium

Good choice....is really hard find a better car OVERALL compare to the TL. It is a very nice, car, if you think is expensive and don't need the power then get a US accord, or the TSX (euro accord).

Maxim

Just hit a home run with this analysis. I had similar experience with most of these cars. Go TL!

SSItls

or do like I did & opt for a used GS 400/430. Much more car no stick but do not miss it with the 8 & Lexus quality will last .

1SICKLEX

Crack kills hella brain cells. Your review is too biased. The IS has a cramped back seat. No ****, so does the TSX, 3 and G35. What else about the damn car?

U say the A4 has reliability problems, yet Honda agreed to a 100k extended warrenty b/c the tranny in the CL/TL ain't worth 2 teabags. Acura quality is severely missing as of late.

WTF does reliability have anything to do with a test-drive?


In a nutshell, the TL is sportier than previously and offers good competition and should be on the checklist of cars to drive before a purchasing is made.

Raheel

Did you try the ES330? Or consider G35 AWD?

Just some options to throw out there

reardley

Thanks - I may try the G35 AWD when it comes out in Dec. The new styling on the ES does nothing for me (I'm sure it's a nice car otherwise, albeit with a softer suspension and purpose). I'll probably also see how the TL compares with a 2001 or 2002 530i.

reardley

Of course I'm biased - my bias is clearly stated in that I need a usable 4 passenger luxury sports sedan. I won't bore everyone with bhp, torque and the like - those stats are known by all. Just my opinions based on my need for a "4 passenger sports car". If I was 25, single, 5'6" and rarely had more than one passenger - sure, the smaller cars (A4, 3, IS) would be higher on my list since they are great cars - but for my purposes - the comparison for the TL needs to be larger cars such as the A6, 5, E320 etc. BTW, the G35 has a huge rear-seat as confirmed by C&D's comparison test which states "plus a 112.2-inch wheelbase — which enabled Nissan to pull the rear wheels out of the cabin for a back seat that is limolike in its commodiousness".

My bias also includes that fact that I purchase cars to keep for 7+ years - which means reliability is high on my list. If I leased a car for 4 years, then the reliability would be a no/low-factor given today's warranties. My last car was a '91 Maxima which I loved due to its "4 door sports car" status - back when Nissan meant it. My assumption is that Acura is 2nd on reliability to Lexus based on JDPwr reports - but I would love further insights whether that is incorrect so thanks for your posting (not owning an Acura before - I have no knowledge other than JDPwr reports).

However, I appreciate the various points-of-view stated on this board and have appreciated other's insights from other threads in my short time here.

Oswald Vater

I appreciated your opinions as I am in the same position and mindset as you. I love my 2000 TL but am not sure I will be able to get an affordable deal on an '04 when the time comes to buy (July). Am also considering G35 (although the "cheap" interior complaints scare me) and the others you mentioned to a lesser degree. Have you considered the ES330 or is it too much luxury? How about the Maxima (not quite as high class but a nice car)? Please continue to inform us as you continue your research.

chadr

Oswald - by July you should be able to get very good deals on the TL. It is not limited production and on nearly every non-limited production car the fervor lasts 3 - 6 months at most (within 3 months I could buy a 350z at a nice discount). As long as you know how to buy a car negotiating a good price on an 04 TL in July should be cake (although waiting till August if possible would give you the advantage of using end of model year as a tool as well).

reardley/1SICKLEX - as far as Audi vs. Acura reliability goes having worked at an Audi dealership there is no way I would ever own one out of warranty. I had a 2001 S4 and the car was brilliant but had a 63% failure rate on the motor. Audi and VW have had problems with certain things and their biggest issue is simply not owning up and taking care of it right away. The window regulator and coil packs come to mind. VW had 4 different window regulator designs before they got one that actually worked properly, that is just not good planning.

vahid_w

The new TL compares to a 5 series


ARE YOU MAD

certanly the new tl can not offer what the old 5 and the new 5 offer

and the new 5 is certanly a better looking vehicle

they are also in different classes

the one thing Acura is missing is finding their own style
the old tl was a blandand now is boring to drive(belive me i have a 2002 S)
all the new TL is doing is coping a buch of companies and trying to make a car


but they certanly did a great job the new TL is a beutie to drive

DougG

Thanks for the excellent, well-written review. I am in pretty much the same boat, coming from a '98 A4 1.8T. I also seriously considered another A4 or BMW, but the 330i was just not worth $40K+ to me and the 325i was not equipped nearly as nicely as the Audi for the same price. Having owned my A4, it will really be tough to give up that AWD!

I was leaning towards the TSX, but really felt that it would be a step down from the A4. Lots of features on the A4 that I am used to are not on the TSX (cassette AND CD, all windows auto down/up, etc.). I could still go for it for the $6K savings, but then I saw a TL when I was at the dealer yesterday. Wow! For the same money as a new A4 1.8T I could have almost all the same features plus 265hp (vs. 180). I'll definitely have to drive one.

One comment only: my '98 Audi has been totally reliable. It had almost no work under warranty and I've only had one repair that I had to pay for. I only have 50K miles on it, but the only things I've replaced have been the battery and a set of tires. I'm still on the original brake pads. I do agree, however, that when you do need parts or maintenance on a German car, you will definitely pay for them. BMW = "Break My Wallet".

DG

reardley

Oswald & DougG: I had been hoping for a new Maxima since I got rid of my '91 Maxima SE back in 2000. I've lived through the let-down of the 2000 "redesign" and the 2004 redesign. Here's a great review from Money magazine that basically sums up my feelings:
http://money.cnn.com/2003/04/22/pf/a...xima/index.htm
(go to cnn.money.com and search for nissan on their site if the link doesn't work).

I would agree that the G35 would be a better alternative to the Maxima (since the G35 is built on a better platform). Admittedly, I arrived at the Infiniti dealer about 15 minutes before closing so didn't get a chance to drive the G35 6MT. To be fair, here is a write-up on the G35 from C&D that is complementary (it certainly has to be on the short list with the TL). Also, my orig comments might have unduly focused on the interior (but hard to keep review short and these were my orig impressions): http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

I haven't considered the Lexus ES much. Certainly a great car and worthy of consideration if desires tend more toward comfort than sport.

Audi makes such a nice looking car with a fantastic interior and maybe I'm conveying my strong anti-VW opinions on Audi but I have to worry about long-term reliability. Here's a link to the JDPowers 2003 Dependability Study (Audi&VW way below avg):
http://www.jdpa.com/studies_jdpower/...ID=749&CatID=1

I hope this helps. Good luck!

Maxim

Wow! Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the Maxima, huh? They were warned about it. About time we on this forum conceded that the only real alternative to the TL would be the G35. All the other competitors should be rated second-tier. I know, I know, what about the 330? Well, it suffers the same fate as the A4, which is not very good reliability. In my view, that makes it second tier. Have you noticed the Consumer Reports has stopped recommending the 330?

Fencesitter

I was at an auto show yesterday, and learned of a car that might might be a lower-priced alternative in this size/performance. (I'm not advocating this car, just reporting what I saw.) The new Mitsubishi Galant GTS has a 3.8L V6 with 230 hp / 250 ft-lbs (that's a lot of torque). The car is 190" long, and comes standard with 17" alloys, 270W stereo w/ 6 CD, leather seats, sunroof, AT w/ Sportronic (but only 4-speed), sport-tuned suspension, etc. It's supposed to be out next week, and they told me it would come in around $26K. Looking at the brochure I don't find either the exterior or the interior overly attractive. What does this group think? Is this just an overloaded low-end sedan? Or a contender?

Monte TLS,MAX

Go to edmunds they have a rearview/side viw and it looks like hell IMO from that view.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/1...ts.r34.500.jpg

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadt....reviews..18.*

larrynimmo

readley --- you left one car out of your consideration...its the car I bought....look at a left over 2003 TL....bought mine for 25.4K (including freight) The memory seats are great. Tons of value for the money. I see great resale value to go along with everything else. In three years when I want to move onto another car, I won't lose my shirt.

Maxim

Seen it. Don't like it. Don't know how it drives though. The exterior looks gimmicky, the interior weird. And Mitsus are not very reliable on the long run. I'd rather have the Mazda 6.

Webologist

I don't think the 5 Series is in the same class as the TL either. Previous 5 Series was a COMPACT CAR. (More TSX than TL)

Is the new one a midsize yet? I also think the 5 except for the M5 and 540i is a bit underpowered. The inclusion of standard Leatherette should also be an embarassement for anyone who wants to exhibit brand snobbery. Even Kia doesn't offer crappy plastic seats! And why do you have to pay extra for decent headlights on a 5? Halogen, come on! Why are they so cheap dishing out the goodies on a relatively expensive, but feature deprived car?

If the TL was a Rear drive compact car with halogen headlights and standard leatherette interior it would be competition. It's not...

kadeshpa

Mitsubishi's have HORRIBLE quality control...with the exception of the EVO, all Mistu's have been way down in the dumps when it comes to reliability and resale value.

shingles

Talk about being biased, LOL!!!

What's reliability got to do with a test drive? Well assuming you are going to BUY the car, it matters doesn't it?

Raheel

First of all, NO NAVI.

Second, Not a Quality Company and Nothing to compare to a TL.. Not even comparable to 2003 TL-S! 4 Speed?

I would rather buy a 2003 TL-S for around the same price..

BTW the stereo is 210 Watts (According to Edmunds)

The quality is not upto par, to any Acura..

It is more of a Leather Trimmed Interior Than Leather

But could you please tell me why such a Big Engine has such LOW HP? Hard to believe, if it was acura with that big of a engine, it would be 300+ HP! If the engine was really sport tuned than it would not be so low HP.. I Do Agree HP is not everything and it has high Torque so, you never know! Also I dont think it has a 6-speed so most enthusiasts would be turned away

The front is so similar to a EVO :wow:




MORE INFO:

http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=5075

Raheel

The Galant Really looks like a Maxima.

Monte TLS,MAX

Yep now find a pic of the current Galant and post next to the new TL especially from the back a strong resemblance their as well.

BLEXV6

Yep, and to these eyes, makes them double loosers. Its almost like Nissan is doing their utmost to make the Maxima extinct.:wow:

Raheel

Raheel

Raheel

Raheel

I dont see the resemblance at all..

I used to think the 2nd GEN TL looks like the Current Galant..

Theres this guy who lives around me who has a Greyish Galant and from the rear right angle, I could've swore it was a 2nd Gen TL!

It looked like this:

Monte TLS,MAX

The rear shares a resemblance just as the new one looks like the new Max in the front, cool pics and thanks for posting them.

Monte TLS,MAX

I hear ya the 02/03's they had it on the nose very sporty looking quality materials throughtout and now its a mess.

Raheel

Heres a Better Comparison of the two..

The TL is a A-Spec

junkbond

dbehrens

Test drove 04' TL, G35 and IS 300 over the weekend.
The IS 300 is very small in the back and in the front.
The G35 has very cheap feeling interior. My wife and I really like the automatic exiting system. When you remove the key the seat slides back and the steering wheel moves up, helping you exit the vehicle. The new acura should have this feature.
The new TL was a blast to drive, very comfortable in front and back and will be our next vehicle.

Thomwarn

Brock_Landers

The reason you think the interior looks so cheap on the G35 is that you have not seen one with the wood package. If you look at the black interior with the wood package there is none of that chintzy silver fake metal plastic. It is all black very similar to the TL.

caball88

its a nice feature for a sports car but not a midsize sedan. i don't really see the need to move the wheel and chair out of the way. when i get in and out of the car there is plenty of space. its probably designed for the over weight americans.

apwalsh

I think the wood package makes it worse. It doesn't look as cheap but it looks uglier. Otherwise, a very solid car.

berlinrl

Reardley, excellent analysis.

My TL is 4 weeks old. My previous car was '95 Maxima (150,000 miles) that I traded for the TL.

I test drove and considered a lot of the competition, but the choice of TL was very clear to because:

1. I wanted a car that was the perfect balance of luxury and sportiness.

2. I spend a lot of time in the car by myself commuting, but on the weekends it needs to be a
comfortable family car. This car is very cozy as a personal luxury sedan (the Maxima felt
somewhat cavernous when I was by myself), but the entire family is also very happy in
the car. My 8 year old loves her space in the back seat with a clear view of the Navi.

In short, it is difficult to pick a car that is direct competition with TL.

For size it is similar to ES330 and 5 series
For it is similar to Audi


For me, and many others here, it is the perfect balance!

Rachel

berkshireTL

Great analysis, reardly. I am in very similar situation as you...in my late 30's, looking for buy a sporty luxury car with ample room for 2 kids in the back, live in a snowy region so pure RWD is out, and reliability is a must. I have also chosen the TL/6MT/Navi as the best choice. Not in a super hurry to buy....probably will buy in 6-9 months.

Here are my two cents:

BMW 3 series: Looked at the 325xi for AWD to drive in the snowy mountains of western Mass. Great driving car but kind of small. Options nickel and dime you to a higher price level for a compact car. Backset not too comfortable for long legged adults or people that don't like having the bump of the wheel well in their kidney. Kid alert: no cup holders in the backseat.

Audi A4/VW Passat: I currently have a 98 VW Passat 1.8 Turbo. Reliability sucks. Electrical problems...left me stranded in the middle of a busy intersection once...that was fun. Ghosts in the machine...electric door locks are possessed like Linda Blair in the Exorcist. Can't wait to say goodbye but need to save more...and my Honda Pilot will be paid off at the end of the year (Honda PIlot = awesome, BTW).

Volvo: Had two friends with brand new Volvos. Both had major issues right out of the shoot. One traded the car in for a 2003 TL and never looked back. The other is struggling with poor support from Volvo dealer on current issues. Plus -- I have banned Ford products from consideration after my 96 Ford Exploder had "issues" like the paint falling off after 5 years. Vowed to X Ford products off the list.

Honda Accord EX V6 w Navi & Leather - Great car...obviously. Not crazy about the looks...though it is not bad looking it does not make my heart pound like the TL. Combination of exterior and interior colors I like are not available. Don't want to settle though at this point in my life...even though the TL could cost 6-8K more. I plan to keep my next car for a long time...7-10 years. Like you, don't want to feel like I settled for the next 10 years. PLUS I want the 6MT of the TL. Consider it my mid life crisis... LOL

Anyway...enough has been said on the forum on why the TL is an outstanding choice! Over the coming months, I hope to join the ranks as a TL owner. Patience, grasshopper, patience.
Good luck to you on your quest!!