Alan50

Okay, fist we have spoken about this several times but now I have a real question and need real answers.
I have a honda Accord I 4 that is my wifes run it to to ground car. 40K a year on an 05. It runs 100% no rattles and gets 34-36 MPG everyday. All highway. Tires look like they are good for anothere 40K breaks no wear at all. Leather flawless. Lexol every two weeks. Now for the question I really love the WDP/Tan TL same as Honda color, but I keep hearing all these horrow storries. Tires,rattles,ect. Is this really true? How many of you have really looked hard at the IS 250. I can buu on new for $3K more than the lexus same options but with AWD. Yes the TL is faster could care less, The IS is smaller a little so what car to buy. Selling my Touareg V8 love this truck but no longer need the size.Any real comments wanted.
Thanks in advance

quake97

Personally, I don't put the TL and the IS in the same comparison category. They really are far apart in price. Yeah, they start around the same, but if you add all the options into the IS that the TL has, you're hitting 40k.

For me, the IS is too small so it's a no brainer for me. Have you test driven both? I'd start there. You might hate one over the other. Also, if it snows where you are, you might want to reconsider a rear wheel drive car like the IS.

Joe

TorontoR

An IS250 gives the impression of an "up and comer" late 20's to mid 30's crowd. I almost bought one myself but hated the fact that dealers were not discounting the car whatsoever. In your age bracket I would do the GS perhaps.

With the TL you can't go wrong.....I would say it suits people from their mid 20's to the 50's. Mine is an 04 with 64,000 KM's on it and no rattles at all (besides the baby seat that I didn't install very well). Runs like its fresh from the dealer.

I'm just working the age dynamic so totally a one sided argument, I know, but a factor none the less for me.

Alan50

Drove both I like the AWD IS. Drove the GS300AWD nice but not much bigger inside than the IS and for 10K more not worth it,besides I love the look of the IS not crazy about the GS. Looks like a big turtle. How many more years on the TL do we have 08? I hope they dont do a 06 Honda rear, Horrible. I like the 05 much better. I have had every high perf car made and I am tired of the German Cars, love everything about them but the service and deqalerships. MB and BMW being the worst. My Audi was perfect for 25K them little things started. The MB was never right. The BMW very good but the dealers are horrible. Service is very important to me. My honda spoiled me on that. The TL I drove ran great. I drove than and the RL together. My wife got out of the RL and got sick. She hates floaters. Said no way on the RL even if it was the same price. She loved the TL

chill_dog

Personally, I think this answers your question.

KeithL

I had an 04 TL and it did have bad squeaks and rattles and as with most TLs the fading dash. But mechanically the car was solid and one of the best cars to drive in this class. As others say I don;t put the IS in the same class. I sat in one before the dealer could prep it for a test drive. I put it as a preppy TSX class car, gorgeous deep rich paint colors excellent fit and finish, but it felt smaller than a TSX. And base price is ok, but equip a Lexus the way you want it and you add a cool $5k+ to it. The Is is not worth more than a TL, nor barely more than a TSX IMHO. If you read my old posts you'll see I swore off Acura, and I think Honda as a company sucks for customer serive. BUT, my dealer's service manager is awesome and when I wanted to dicth my 04 TL recently I coudl find no other car in its class that offers al the value and drive that the TL does. And the trade-in offers I got from the dealer and Carmax were far better than ANY other car I have owned at similar ages/milage trade-in percent value. And I owned some Infinitis (I30, I#5) and several Toyota's, all cars that extrud high resale. In the end , I am now in a 06 TL Navi. Yes the tires did suck! But all 06 TLs have Michelin tires. They are ok, they ride good and handle decent, they are not sport tires, they are Touring tires. They are a tad soft riding even at 35PSI, but they do not vibrate or flat spot like the old Bridgestones. Yes many log in here to vent their complaints. I thisnk the TL is an excellent value for the money. I do think Acura is nto the high quality build they used to be, I am sure basing the car off of the high volume Accord has somehting to do with that as maybe does building it in the US. Understand that Acura Customer Service SUCKS! I think virtually all owners will agree with that, if you have a real problme they will not be much help. If you are comfortable a local dealer and their service then the Acura will be a good buy. I think after an Accord the Is while it may feel more upscale you will quickly feel cramped and short on space. I am 6 foot and with the IS seat all the way back only very small children woudl be sitting behind me in an IS, not so with a TL, all the way back and adults fit well behind me.

Alan50

I agree with you Honda and Acura Factory service SUCKS. I had one problem with my 04 Honda Accord, a vibration @ idle and @ 60 while excelerating. Honda said it was normal. I asked them to put it in writting when they would not I won on lemon law. Two ways to bet them!

FSHIZZL

The TL is a very good car; the IS is better, although, IMO the TL better competes w/the ES330/I35. The IS250/350 better competes with 325/330/G35/A4

If the IS is for you and HP truely doesn't matter, then if I were you I would go for the IS250. If the IS is for the Mrs', then I would go for the IS250 w/the lux pkg. However, if you really want to shake things up, then go with the IS350 w/sport/nav.

The TL will meet and more than likely exceed what you have in the I4 Honda; the IS will put what you currently are used to into another league.

You're not planning on putting those type of miles on either the TL or IS, right?

FSHIZZL

Alan 50 -- Just found this unbiased TL review in, of all places, a Lexus forum; check it out: http://www.clublexus.com/forums/foru...ysprune=&f=139

TCMS

Let me guess, you havent sat in nor driven an Is250 or 350.

whatjones911

Wow this is a good unbiased review of the TL. I really agree with him about the noisy ride. Its pretty noisy on the highway, lots of road noise (probably from tires???) but no wind noise which is good.

onehogwild2006

As a previous or current owner of numerous automobiles besides my '05 TL (including Mercedes CLK 430, BMW 325 and M3, Porsche Boxster S, a dozen Toyota SUV's and Toyota cars, etc.), I must say that the TL is one of the best cars for the money. I think it offeres more for considerably less cost than the IS, and since I am somewhat into performance, I certainly didn't want to spend many thousands more for a similarly equipped IS 350 (the 250 is too slow for me). Heck, with 4 automobiles as well as 2 Harleys, I was looking for the most bang for the buck since I don't intend to sell any of my other vehicles soon (yes, these are all driven by me, not other family members). Plus the back seat space (used very infrequently but possibly by clients / adults) is definitely roomier in the TL. You can't go wrong with Lexus or Acura, but the TL offers more at a considerably cheaper price. By the way, this is my first Acura and I have owned it for only a couple months...... I love this car.

dotnetpimp

"Funeral-home paint colors" LOL!

Thorough, well-done review. I'd have to agree - the Accord V6 probably offers more bang-for-the-buck. I just wouldn't feel as pimp behind the wheel, which is part of the price difference for me. And my dad has an ES330. A more refined vehicle, IMO, but less sporty. Neverless, all three are great cars.

Alan50

I have driven all three, TL, Is 250AWD and the IS 350. I have had my vetts and M3's as well as Audi, and other sports cars. That is out of my system now. I hate looking under the hood or dealing with service dept. I need something good in the snow so the IS 350 is out. I noticed on all the Lexus's ( IS's) tjat the tire are Bridgestone or Dunlop 5000's had these on my Audi and they are the worst tires in any kind of snow, Tire Rack rates then as a 3.1 Poor. Yiu have an AWD car with lousy tires, makes sense to me!.I an going to drive to TL and IS 250 one more time and see.The big thing forme is the seats,bad back. The honda leather sets are fair they are not the best for me. It looks like the TL seat is better from the looks and feel. I wish I knew if they are the same frame. The Lexus fits fine. I would have to believe that the Lexus prices will start to come down in a few weeks. You can already get 2K off if you shop.I love he looks of the WDP in the Lexus and like the looks of the TL getting a little old by now but maybe it's just me.I will drive the new car maybe 10K a year the Honda is the wifes 120miles a day all highway. Hope it lasts 150K without any problems them I move on to the boat and off we go.

mickey3c

tires are a simple thing that you can swap out. I would not let the stock tires drive me away from any model. Or get two sets..

As for trouble free driving... If you get a model with nagging problems coupled with poor service, you will spend much of your time trying to get things fixed. I have had some acura models that have had this problem and its not any fun believe me. I am constatly amazed at what service might call "normal" for the model.

TrackBandit

I have an 05 TL/Navi w/ 3k on it and 04 IS300 w/ 20k on it and let me tell you, that Lexus is solid as a rock over the TL. We have brick paved streets in my neighborhood and when the Lexus drives over them there is not a squeak, rattle or anything. It just feels solid. On the other hand, I've been in 10-year old pickups on those bricks that are quieter than the TL. In the TL I hear slight rattles from the dash and right rear area. Also my glove box doesn't fix right and the dealer tried to fix it and got it worse.

Bottom line, I love the way the TL drives, but if I had to make this decision over, I'd go for the superior fit and finish of the Lexus.

Landonk

I test drove the IS 250 before i purchased my 06 TL. The Lexus was very nice but just too small. No the TL isn't a limo..but it at least allows 4 average size adults to ride comfortably. I am 6'1 and with the driver seat moved up as far as I could stand, my wife (5'7) could not get in the rear seat behind me...not enough leg room in the Lexus. I then test drove the 06 Accord V6 EXL....very nice car...just about bought. My wife liked but said it just wasn't sporty enough...told me to test drive the Acura TL. I was thinking that it was a Honda also..what could be the difference. The Accord MSRP loaded was around $28,500...and the TL non Navi checked in at around $34K. That discouraged me as well. HOWEVER!!!!! As soon as I test drove the Acura...I knew this was the one. It looked and drove much sportier..and gave me the grin factor! And I don't know what everyone is complaining about as far as road noise...but I think it has a very quiet ride. Of course I traded a Honda Odyssey mini van in and it had a ton of road noise. If you don't plan on carying any back passengers I would consider the IS...but if you do the TL hands down. Keep this in mind...most Lexus dealers will not discount very much.

Alan50

Guys,Girls
You are right on the head with this one. Both are good but with Honda/Acura everything is normal until they come up with a fix or enough of us complain. The Lexus is only a few K more. Size does count, at least that's what my wife tells me? I will see in a few weeks when prices come down for 2K difference looks like the IS and morethe TL. Either way I don't think I can go wrong. Power in not important, rattle free and service is.

Landonk

Alan, I don't know about your Lexus dealer...but it would be a cold day for our Lexus dealer to discount anything 2 grand let alone a brand new model and body style. I would bet it would be next year before you can get an IS discounted that much.

Alan50

I am in Md. and there is always a dealer that will sell a car just work them. Walk up to a salesperson and tell them after they say no discount "fine there are 10 other salepeople here, if I walk out someone else will sell that car,either way you are out a commision. Something is better than nothing". He will do his best to get you a deal. Beside I don't mind calling every dealer within 500miles. I got a new M3 conv 2003 smg when they first can out. The dealers had a 5K ADM on these plus and found a dealer in west Virginia Moses BMW that gave me $1,500 off sticker when everyone else said noway.You just need to work them.

trancemission

good luck with rattle free my friend....

oh yeah and btw Im going to just start refering everybody to this thread so dont start anymore TL vs IS ones....kthxbye

ttliang

^agree^
rattle free. ha...did i tell you my rattle story about the 06 LS-430???

trancemission

no you didnt, but please enlighten us.....

ttliang

i am a pretty anal guy when it comes to abnormal cabin noise (plug! my 04 TL is doing great in that department mind you it's now with the ever vibrating EL-42s for the winter). we were buying an RL the other day and decided to test drive Lexus big and small too. I always had high expectations quality and fit wise for Toyota cars (from my early 90's experiences) and expected lexus to be just that much better.

IS we got in and got out immediately. this random guy we don't know couldn't even fit his 4-5 yr old behind me when i was sitting comfortably. i'm 6+.

GS was fine except some designs i didn't like (my friends and i all bumped our heads in and out the car...compared notes afterward). interior plastic felt cheap and empty IMO with that ivory color. little clickings here and there but pretty good over all compare to the LS-430 you are about to hear. oh 300 AWD is gutless IMO.

anyway we then test drove the LS-430 06 brand spanking new with that ridiculous(in a very good way), super luxurious package i forgot the name. first the V8 is gutless (coming from a TL6MT moded but my friends felt the same way from a Q45). then we noticed this center console near the navi started to rattle occasionaly. i pushed it in a few times to stop it during the 20min drive. i also noticed the very loud wind noise from A and B pilars as well as at the top of the windshield (at first i thought it was from bad radio reception until i turned it off that's how bad). we switched drivers and continued to test. we all heard the same thing rattles and noise wise confrimed by note comparing afterward. one guy hear other rattles i didn't.

i wasn't biased going in. honest truth all 3 of us had high expectations and was pretty excited about driving a few Lexus. i was thinking about leasing an a gutless (she could care less) IS or GS for my wife since her lease end is coming up. we were all very disappointed after the test drives. it's like a broken dream and reality check. maybe our expectations were set too high but i thought they charge that much more for less powerful cars that they should be better in other departments. i understand it's only a few cars out of thousands. but why the hell did he pull out the shittist 06 ones for us to test drive unless he don't intent to sell? i had similar BWN experiencs just like this.

i don't mean Lexus or BMWs are bad cars in general. just if you are looking there for your guaranteed flawless golden princess, you "might be" in for a big surprise (depends on your luck just like with any other manufacturers).

sorry for the long post, trancemisson asked for it.

trancemission

yes I did and I would do it all over again..

thanks for taking the time to write that my friend....

FSHIZZL

Even better...Crystal White/Sterling 350.

AlterZgo

Responding to you in this thread as per the mod's request.

1. I agree w/ your fact that IS350s generally test quicker/faster than 6 speed TLs. I also agree that *most* IS350s are quicker than *most 6 speed TLs.

2. I never said all or most 6 speed TLs will be as fast as all or most IS350s. I said *SOME* 6 speed TLs *CAN BE* as quick/fast as *SOME* IS350s. Due to production variances, some IS350s are slower than average and some TLs are faster than average. I'd guess probably about 90-95% of IS350s are quicker than most 6 speed TLs. However, there are those 5-10% which may not produce as much power and can be taken by the few quicker than normal 6 speed TLs.

3. I disagree w/ your implication that basically all IS350s can turn the 1/4 in the 13s (you stated, "if an owner can't run at least a 13.9 in an IS350 he doesn't deserve to drive it"). For example, that R&T IS350 that ran 0-60 in 6.0 sec and 1/4 mi in 14.5 will probably be VERY hard to get into the 13s. Since we are talking about an auto equipped car, there is no need to find the perfect launch RPM, feather the throttle, speed-shift, etc. All you have to do is brake torque a bit and mash the throttle. The results would be very consistent. If that auto IS350 can only run 14.5 qtr miles according to R&T, I doubt if John Force could get it to run in the 13s.

4. Your comparisons about hp are valid. There is no dispute that the IS350 motor is making a good 40 or so more hp than the TL motor. BUT, there is a HUGE difference in performance difference btw an automatic and a manual transmission. The advantage of having a 6 speed manual vs. an automatic is probably worth at least 30 hp (autos can't transfer as much power to the wheels as manuals, autos can't be launched as hard as manuals, autos typically have taller gear ratios which hurt acceleration, autos have slippage in the torque converter, etc.).

My only point is, I believe that Wid-TL did run neck and neck w/ an IS350. Wid-TL probably has a quicker than average TL 6 speed and the IS350 he was running against probably was slower than average, or it could have been loaded w/ bricks in the trunk or the guy may have put 87 octane gas in or something.

I mean, for godsake, we're talking about an IS350! They're really not all that fast nowadays where 400+ hp bone stock cars are becoming more and more common. If Wid-TL claimed he ran neck and neck w/ a Vette or an STi or an AMG E55, I'd be calling BS as loudly as you.

awood

They don't make the I35 any longer. May as well compare to the Model T.

I drove the IS350, and its a lot more fun than the TL. A lot peppier, and feels more like a sports car. The down side of that is that it does feel a little cramped. For me, it came down to the $7500 difference between an IS350 with Nav and Xeon headlamps vs. the Acura with Nav. I admit it - I'm cheap.

Of course, if I knew I was buying such a rattle-buggy I may have made another choice. Coming from a 2002 TL-S, I'm very dissapointed in the dash rattles and multiple blind spots on the new design.

oliverd

The interior of the IS looks cheap, espeically the dash. I've sat in the IS350 and I wasn't impressed with the quality.

The exterior looks nice. The car is not worth the money Lexus asks for.

O

Mokos23

Have any of you considered the Infiniti M35/M45 instead?

xjdmb16a2six

i love the IS350, but i have to agree with you. The dash looks hella cheap and the metallic trim looks like cheap plastic. And ya, the price is too high IMO. my friend just paid 46k for a fully loaded one. The loaded GS300 is like 4k more. I think the IS350 would be a better deal if it was close to 40k for a fully loaded one.

nasalcedo03

Compare size all you want, but personally after having a car with fairly large rear seat room (Maxima), I can say it usually doesn't matter. It is very rare that I actually have anyone in the back.

Coincidentally, after reading this entire thread (and before posting this) I went out to lunch with some co-workers, riding in the back of a newer TL. Seeing how the driver is about 6'4"+ the seat was all the way back ... ugh! I don't care if it has more room if I can't fit (I'm 6'1").

As for the interior, some saying that Lexus looks cheap....LOL. You may think it looks cheap, but Lexus uses the absolute best in their cars. Sorry, but Acura isn't even in the same league in this category. No I don't own a Lexus, but I went in the other day to look at some IS's and WOW the leather feels like

lscld

The Lexus IS 250 w/ luxury package is about 35-36k, wich is about the same as a TL w/ navi. The Lexus w/lux. package has some features the Acura doesn't, but you are not getting a navi. system with the IS like you would with the TL at around that price. I think it will have to come down to how much the dealer is willing to come down on the price on either car, and how i like how each drives and feels. I've sat in but haven't driven a TL and was impressed, but I haven't even sat in an IS yet, so I'll just have to see.

gqchicago

One correction, NOT all 06 TLs have the Michelin tires. Only the TLs with Navi got the better Michelin tires. The tires you hear most people complaining about on this board are the Bridgestone Turanza EL42s that come (and still do) on all non-navi's. I'm in an '06 loaner with non-navi right now and it has the Bridgestones, the Michelins I'm pretty happy with.

enbe

to me that says why I chose the TL over the IS; the TL has a very solid platform and hugs the turns and I'm very impressed with that feedback on the road.
It just does not float.

rico651

i sat in my friend's 06' IS250 last week and i felt like i was sitting in a midget's closet. way too small for me and im not even that tall (5'10ish"). I pulled my seat back to a comfortable length and barely saw any leg room in the back. wonder if they should have just made it a coupe..

as far as exterior, i love the lines on both of the cars, i would be happy with both. i did not drive it, so i cannot compare that. but as far as just sitting in it, lets just say i was happy to get back into my TL

turtlecivic

iTrader: (2)

I was in the same dilemma but honestly its all about your preference. I chose the TL because it was bigger and I like the interior but the IS drives smoother and the lines are nice. I just had a bad experience with the IS when I went to test drive it twice.