TL-S vs. IS350?
07-03-2009, 12:53 PM
#41
Drifting
accelerate hard with a FWD in the rain with tires that have grip, and you take off. now put cheapo tires on a RWD car, mash the gas and lets see you reign control over a fishtailing rear end.
driven wheels frankly do not matter in the rain, snow, dry pavement. it is the amount of grip whichever end has.you can be on dry asphalt with no grip on a FWD car and you'd be washing out and losing steering ability.
taking your case in point, if you are on a RWD car in the rain, whether stationary or moving, with enough power mashing the throttle to WOT will yield your car swinging its rear end without any sort of traction control, regardless of the tires. T/C will step in to intervene, and the reason for it is not to shift power, but really T/C restores grip - whether you are FWD, RWD or AWD.
07-03-2009, 03:22 PM
#42
If you want a quality built car.. go lexus. If you want the best bang for your buck, go Acura. Thats what it boils down to.
"Most" people who chose Acura over other brands, their decision boils down to "wow this is a good value" opposed to those that buy Lexus comes down to "Great solid quality built car..worth the extra money".
I have 2 Lexus's on my driveway 07 GS and 05 RX and I can say hands down they are better built cars.
"Most" people who chose Acura over other brands, their decision boils down to "wow this is a good value" opposed to those that buy Lexus comes down to "Great solid quality built car..worth the extra money".
I have 2 Lexus's on my driveway 07 GS and 05 RX and I can say hands down they are better built cars.
07-03-2009, 06:01 PM
#43
Safety Car
I'm 21 years old, and I'm sure that my opinion may not be what you're looking for. What everyone else said above, pretty much wraps it up. Honestly though, I'd much rather choose the TL-S over the IS350. The Lexus is an amazing machine, but it seemed too plush and bit sluggish around the corners. The TL-S looks AMAZING both inside and out; A-Spec Kit etc.. The IS350 has a great amount of power, but it isn't THAT much quicker than the TL-S; I doubt you'll be mashing on it with children, wife, etc.. TL-S > IS350
07-03-2009, 06:01 PM
#44
Drifting
Thread Starter
as far as pricing - I'd get a 2006 IS350 vs an 07 TL-S. pricing would be about the same. but hat's comparing an 06 Lexus to 07 TL-S. either of those would put me at about $26-28k ballpark.
the G8 can be had brand new for about $28k..maybe $29k. you can get 0% for 72 months. the G8 is FAST. 1/4 mile is 13.5 or so. i drove one and it amazed me at how much torque it had. it just gets up and MOVES. not that a TL-S is slow, but it's not even close.. G8 would romp all over a TL-s.
handling wise, i'd have to say it's very close.
overall the G8 will feel a little "cheaper"....but it's not cheapy inside like some american cars. i do like how it looks. it aggressive looking. it's also VERY roomy.
the TL looks more upscale to me. fully loaded with nav. but ythe G8 has about everything else, including heated seats, it jus tdoens't have nav..but i can buy a garmin.
gonna test drive later today or tomorrow. will keep you all posted.
the G8 can be had brand new for about $28k..maybe $29k. you can get 0% for 72 months. the G8 is FAST. 1/4 mile is 13.5 or so. i drove one and it amazed me at how much torque it had. it just gets up and MOVES. not that a TL-S is slow, but it's not even close.. G8 would romp all over a TL-s.
handling wise, i'd have to say it's very close.
overall the G8 will feel a little "cheaper"....but it's not cheapy inside like some american cars. i do like how it looks. it aggressive looking. it's also VERY roomy.
the TL looks more upscale to me. fully loaded with nav. but ythe G8 has about everything else, including heated seats, it jus tdoens't have nav..but i can buy a garmin.
gonna test drive later today or tomorrow. will keep you all posted.
07-03-2009, 08:09 PM
#45
When I bought my TL-s a few months ago I looked at IS350's and just didn't want to pay that much money. Isn't pontiac about to get the ax? Not sure I'd buy a car from a defunct car company. Like ppl said, I think acura has the best value, lexus is a great company that builds great cars.
07-03-2009, 10:35 PM
#46
What makes you say that? One time I was briskly accelerating up a hill passing a slow car in the rain. The VSA flashed and the TL swerved into the next lane. I had to use all my strength to force the TL to stay in my lane.
I did the same thing in the G a few months later in the same conditions, in the same location... Tail stepped out slightly, but I was easily able to keep the car straight with very little effort.
On another occasion I took my GTP around a corner too fast... Tail was swinging wildly. I thought I was going to crash into the cement barrier....
On yet a different occasion I took the G around a corner too fast as well. I was passing a truck but forgot the lanes merged during a tight curve, so gunned it to complete the pass. I ended up powersliding the curve, all while staying in my lane. When I took a corner too fast with FWD I was scared to take corners too fast for a week. When I did the same with RWD, I thought it was fun and wanted to do it again...
Think about it... Accelerate too hard in a fwd in the rain, you lose all steering control... Not so with rwd....
Note: not saying fwd sucks or rwd is awesome, just pointing out claims that rwd sucks in rain, snow, etc, is bs, as I drive both in rain, snow, etc.
I did the same thing in the G a few months later in the same conditions, in the same location... Tail stepped out slightly, but I was easily able to keep the car straight with very little effort.
On another occasion I took my GTP around a corner too fast... Tail was swinging wildly. I thought I was going to crash into the cement barrier....
On yet a different occasion I took the G around a corner too fast as well. I was passing a truck but forgot the lanes merged during a tight curve, so gunned it to complete the pass. I ended up powersliding the curve, all while staying in my lane. When I took a corner too fast with FWD I was scared to take corners too fast for a week. When I did the same with RWD, I thought it was fun and wanted to do it again...
Think about it... Accelerate too hard in a fwd in the rain, you lose all steering control... Not so with rwd....
Note: not saying fwd sucks or rwd is awesome, just pointing out claims that rwd sucks in rain, snow, etc, is bs, as I drive both in rain, snow, etc.
07-04-2009, 01:39 AM
#47
Drifting
In my RWD car, in the same conditions, in the same location, the rear stepped out a little but the car stayed within my lane and that I had an easy time keeping the car tracking straight.
If there was a car in the lane to my left when I was in the TL, I would have CRASHED. When I was in my RWD car, since I stayed within my own lane, it wouldn't have mattered.
In a FWD car, if you break traction on your drive wheels you lose steering control.
Last edited by avs007; 07-04-2009 at 01:42 AM.
07-04-2009, 01:51 AM
#48
Who cares about RWD or FWD, unless you care more for performance. If your driving really affects you (safety wise) you obviously need lessons on how to drive.
Anyways back to the topic, get the type-s just because of what you're getting for the price and the agreessive look you get with the type-s. Don't forget the most feature when you look at our cars: top rated safety car in its class. Most important line you need for your family.
Anyways back to the topic, get the type-s just because of what you're getting for the price and the agreessive look you get with the type-s. Don't forget the most feature when you look at our cars: top rated safety car in its class. Most important line you need for your family.
07-04-2009, 01:54 AM
#49
Drifting
No I'm not. In a FWD car, if you break traction because you are accelerating too hard, you CANNOT STEER because the front tires need TRACTION to be able to steer. In a RWD car, if you spin the rear tires, the FRONT tires still have TRACTION to be able to keep the car pointed in the correct direction to allow you to recover.
Put cheapo tires on a FWD and mash the gas, and when the front swings sideways, lets see you try to steer your way out of that. Why are you comparing awesome tires to cheapo tires?
I wasn't arguing that one was inherently better than the other, I was dispelling myths that RWD was "less safe".
What I was saying, was that in cases when you already lost traction, recovering with RWD is easier, becuase you still have steering control, so you can keep your car oriented in the proper direction while you try to recover any fishtailing that may be happening... If you lose traction in a FWD car in the same scenario, recovering is hopeless until you regain traction on your front wheels to be able to steer the car, until then the car will go where IT wants to go, not where YOU want it to go.
What I was saying, was that in cases when you already lost traction, recovering with RWD is easier, becuase you still have steering control, so you can keep your car oriented in the proper direction while you try to recover any fishtailing that may be happening... If you lose traction in a FWD car in the same scenario, recovering is hopeless until you regain traction on your front wheels to be able to steer the car, until then the car will go where IT wants to go, not where YOU want it to go.
07-04-2009, 01:59 AM
#50
Drifting
Thanks for the insult... But in case you didn't notice I didn't hit anything, and I successfully recovered the fishtailing in my FWD car without hitting the cement barrier, and stayed in my own lane the whole time.
07-04-2009, 02:07 AM
#51
Drifting
I was cross shopping the TL and IS350 as well... (It should be obvious which one I bought). My main reason against the Lexus was that the IS was too cramped. If it was a coupe I wouldn't mind if it was cramped...
07-04-2009, 02:12 AM
#52
Drifting
07-04-2009, 02:17 AM
#54
Drifting
07-04-2009, 02:43 AM
#56
Did you not read what I said? On the TL, when the front end lost traction while accelerating up a hill in the rain the car swerved INTO THE NEXT LANE, and I had to use all my strength to hold the steering wheel to force the car to track straight.
In my RWD car, in the same conditions, in the same location, the rear stepped out a little but the car stayed within my lane and that I had an easy time keeping the car tracking straight.
If there was a car in the lane to my left when I was in the TL, I would have CRASHED. When I was in my RWD car, since I stayed within my own lane, it wouldn't have mattered.
In a FWD car, if you break traction on your drive wheels you lose steering control.
In my RWD car, in the same conditions, in the same location, the rear stepped out a little but the car stayed within my lane and that I had an easy time keeping the car tracking straight.
If there was a car in the lane to my left when I was in the TL, I would have CRASHED. When I was in my RWD car, since I stayed within my own lane, it wouldn't have mattered.
In a FWD car, if you break traction on your drive wheels you lose steering control.
07-04-2009, 03:24 AM
#57
Drifting
I"m not saying RWD is "better" in the snow/rain. I'm saying RWD is not "less safe". That's all. Put decent tires on your car, and it shouldn't matter if you have RWD or FWD when driving in Snow/Rain. I'm just saying don't dismiss RWD becuase you think it's "less safe".
07-04-2009, 10:15 PM
#59
Drifting
07-04-2009, 11:23 PM
#61
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (1)
let's get this discussion back on topic i.e. tl-s vs. is350. fwd vs rwd vs awd in inclement weather is not the topic at hand.
07-05-2009, 01:37 AM
#62
Drifting
FWD will get you marginally better traction from a stand-still.. But once moving, FWD will not help you accelerate better, stop better, steer better, etc. (Not saying that RWD is getting you all those things, just saying that for inclimate weather tires are everything). But for the record, with a well balanced near 50/50 weight distributed RWD car, you'll have plenty of weight over the drive wheels. Plus when you accelerate the shifting weight will get you extra traction.
But anyways, to stay on topic: Between the IS350 and the TL-S, I think the TL is more well rounded. If you are looking hard at the IS350, I'd rather take an Infiniti G37 Sport.
Personally I stay away from Lexus, because the only Lexus dealer in our area can kiss my @ss because of the lousy treatment they gave me... One time when I came there after work to test drive the GS they said, "We aren't in the business of letting highschoolers come joyriding in our vehicles... Please come back later with your parents if you want to ride in one".. I was beyond pissed because I was in my late 20's at the time, was wearing a suit because I just came from a client meeting, and I even met my wife there to test drive together.
07-05-2009, 01:56 AM
#63
As for driving experience. Compare Acura to Lexus as you would compare BMW to Mercedes. If you can't figure out which ones compare in their respective classes you shouldn't be giving advice on the subject.
TL-S is all around a better car.
07-05-2009, 02:50 AM
#64
Burning Brakes
No its not BS. FWD IS better in slippery conditions compared to RWD. I have owned many cars both FWD, RWD, and AWD. Cars ranging from Corvette Z06's, to grand Cherokee SRT8's etc etc. The ONLY car I would drive in snowy conditions are my FWD cars. My commute to work takes me on some open country roads that during winter are un-touched by snow plows. Coming from experience you wont catch me taking one of the rear wheel drive cars to work when snow is in the forecast. My FWD car literally plows right through un-plowed roads no problems at all. RWD on the other hand, have fun in the ditch or stuck on a hill.
I love performance cars dont get me wrong but in normal day to day driving FWD is better than RWD for year round use in areas that get snowy. Now ofcourse on a REAL sports car such as a Corvette Z06 ofcourse you would want RWD.
I love performance cars dont get me wrong but in normal day to day driving FWD is better than RWD for year round use in areas that get snowy. Now ofcourse on a REAL sports car such as a Corvette Z06 ofcourse you would want RWD.
Personally I stay away from Lexus, because the only Lexus dealer in our area can kiss my @ss because of the lousy treatment they gave me... One time when I came there after work to test drive the GS they said, "We aren't in the business of letting highschoolers come joyriding in our vehicles... Please come back later with your parents if you want to ride in one".. I was beyond pissed because I was in my late 20's at the time, was wearing a suit because I just came from a client meeting, and I even met my wife there to test drive together.
Last edited by knavinusa; 07-05-2009 at 02:54 AM.
07-05-2009, 09:53 AM
#65
Safety Car
iTrader: (4)
Too bad when you accelerate, weight shifts to the rear, causing your front drive wheels to lose traction...
FWD will get you marginally better traction from a stand-still.. But once moving, FWD will not help you accelerate better, stop better, steer better, etc. (Not saying that RWD is getting you all those things, just saying that for inclimate weather tires are everything). But for the record, with a well balanced near 50/50 weight distributed RWD car, you'll have plenty of weight over the drive wheels. Plus when you accelerate the shifting weight will get you extra traction.
But anyways, to stay on topic: Between the IS350 and the TL-S, I think the TL is more well rounded. If you are looking hard at the IS350, I'd rather take an Infiniti G37 Sport.
Personally I stay away from Lexus, because the only Lexus dealer in our area can kiss my @ss because of the lousy treatment they gave me... One time when I came there after work to test drive the GS they said, "We aren't in the business of letting highschoolers come joyriding in our vehicles... Please come back later with your parents if you want to ride in one".. I was beyond pissed because I was in my late 20's at the time, was wearing a suit because I just came from a client meeting, and I even met my wife there to test drive together.
FWD will get you marginally better traction from a stand-still.. But once moving, FWD will not help you accelerate better, stop better, steer better, etc. (Not saying that RWD is getting you all those things, just saying that for inclimate weather tires are everything). But for the record, with a well balanced near 50/50 weight distributed RWD car, you'll have plenty of weight over the drive wheels. Plus when you accelerate the shifting weight will get you extra traction.
But anyways, to stay on topic: Between the IS350 and the TL-S, I think the TL is more well rounded. If you are looking hard at the IS350, I'd rather take an Infiniti G37 Sport.
Personally I stay away from Lexus, because the only Lexus dealer in our area can kiss my @ss because of the lousy treatment they gave me... One time when I came there after work to test drive the GS they said, "We aren't in the business of letting highschoolers come joyriding in our vehicles... Please come back later with your parents if you want to ride in one".. I was beyond pissed because I was in my late 20's at the time, was wearing a suit because I just came from a client meeting, and I even met my wife there to test drive together.
FWD will get you SIGNIFICANTLY better traction from a stand still (not marginally), and when rolling traction in all categories is better hands down. I drive in snow EVERY winter.
Like I said before for a summer fun car ofcourse RWD would be the best choice, but for an all year round car that gets drivin in snowy areas FWD is the best. In a way Acura was smart to keep the TL FWD as thats one of the reason I got the TL-S because its FWD and I need to drive it in the winter.
07-05-2009, 02:16 PM
#68
Did you not read what I said? On the TL, when the front end lost traction while accelerating up a hill in the rain the car swerved INTO THE NEXT LANE, and I had to use all my strength to hold the steering wheel to force the car to track straight.
In my RWD car, in the same conditions, in the same location, the rear stepped out a little but the car stayed within my lane and that I had an easy time keeping the car tracking straight.
If there was a car in the lane to my left when I was in the TL, I would have CRASHED. When I was in my RWD car, since I stayed within my own lane, it wouldn't have mattered.
In a FWD car, if you break traction on your drive wheels you lose steering control.
In my RWD car, in the same conditions, in the same location, the rear stepped out a little but the car stayed within my lane and that I had an easy time keeping the car tracking straight.
If there was a car in the lane to my left when I was in the TL, I would have CRASHED. When I was in my RWD car, since I stayed within my own lane, it wouldn't have mattered.
In a FWD car, if you break traction on your drive wheels you lose steering control.
If you break traction in a FWD car, you are also not fishtailing all over the road. Unless you are on black ice, you won't lose all steering control. All you have to do is take your foot OFF THE GAS PEDAL to retain grip. While driving a RWD 50/50 weight distributed 540i, I fishtailed on a patch of sand coming off an offramp while lightly touching the gas pedal. I pulled out, but that wouldn't have happened in FWD. Since the ass end of the car has completely lost traction and is now moving in a lateral direction, the driver needs to know how to pull out of it correctly. Where as in FWD, simply lift your right foot, and adjust the steering wheel to the correct direction. Hence the reason why FWD is the better option in inclement weather.
07-05-2009, 02:21 PM
#69
Honestly I can't fathom how you managed to swerved your TL into the next lane while driving uphill. It doesn't make physical sense. Were you accelerating hard and passing? Sounds like unsafe driving to me.
07-05-2009, 02:21 PM
#70
TL=True Love
IMO i see a lot of women driving IS 250/350 since its small. Theres an IS 350 in my hood for 30k, but no navi- so def. no bang for buck there. IS -350 doesnt have LED break lights(a luxury feature), like the TL. Also TL has side mirror blinkers, which are not standard on the IS. the IS-350 does not have front and rear side marker lights. so basically TL has more "stuff"
07-08 Tl-S FTW!!!
07-08 Tl-S FTW!!!
07-05-2009, 03:12 PM
#71
Drifting
07-05-2009, 03:22 PM
#72
Senior Moderator
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