TL Performance in Snow??
#81
Drifting
Originally Posted by XRX2
Using engine braking when going downhill in the dry to avoid overheating the brakes is a good idea
^^^ whatt are you talking about??
thats 101 for burning your clutch (the moment you downshift)
see how much you save on disk brakes when you gonna have to change the clutch plate
^^^ whatt are you talking about??
thats 101 for burning your clutch (the moment you downshift)
see how much you save on disk brakes when you gonna have to change the clutch plate
Although, when going down a long downgrade, it's good to engine brake, but only to maintain speed, not to actually slow down.
#82
AZ Community Team
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca...T4FinalRpt.pdf
Pretty good study by NHTSA on ABS effectiveness
http://www.samarins.com/glossary/abs.html
For loose snow or gravel ABS stops are longer for light vehicles, for all else ABS stops are shorter. For packed snow and ice there is some debate out there but most of research shows shorter stopping distances are with ABS.
The point of the original discussion was mantaining control on slick surfaces, the brakes are easier to modulate and control than using the engine which has awkward and non-linear control for braking forces. In a slick surface situation, it is best to use the brakes to modulate and control the deceleration forces on the tires.
Pretty good study by NHTSA on ABS effectiveness
http://www.samarins.com/glossary/abs.html
For loose snow or gravel ABS stops are longer for light vehicles, for all else ABS stops are shorter. For packed snow and ice there is some debate out there but most of research shows shorter stopping distances are with ABS.
The point of the original discussion was mantaining control on slick surfaces, the brakes are easier to modulate and control than using the engine which has awkward and non-linear control for braking forces. In a slick surface situation, it is best to use the brakes to modulate and control the deceleration forces on the tires.
Originally Posted by ubnpast
The abs system doesnt have anything to do with what kind it is or not, read: http://isomerica.net/archives/2005/1...nd-snow-tires/
Im not saying aviod using the brakes alltogether, but downshift first to slow you down the fastest, especially when going downhill in ice.
Im not saying aviod using the brakes alltogether, but downshift first to slow you down the fastest, especially when going downhill in ice.
#83
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
For loose snow or gravel ABS stops are longer for light vehicles, for all else ABS stops are shorter. For packed snow and ice there is some debate out there but most of research shows shorter stopping distances are with ABS.
My main issue has been the cases where ABS has activated in error. Ie undulating or broken pavement. Ive had ABS come on and not let me have the brakes untill almost too late.
That said, for most drivers and most situations its a good thing.
#84
AZ Community Team
I agree on the use of ABS, polling data still shows most drivers do not use it or unaware how to use it effectively.
In terms of the shortest stopping distance, when ABS came out that was true. Early ABS systems (even the quality ones from Bosch) were not as good as a good driver in providing the shortest distance in the dry, the wet was often a tossup. The problem was how many times per second the ABS system could detect a locked wheel and make appropiate action. However the ABS technology for the controllers and their firmware has been improving dramtically in the last two decades. Some of the latest ABS systems can measure a wheel lock/slip every 6" (Ferrari F430) and can control the brake pressure modulation into hundreds of times a seconds. And on poor pavement (snow, ice, ...) the early (keyword here) had longer stopping distances. Again as DSP chip technology has made mobile phones smaller and more capable, it has done the same for ABS controllers along with much better firmware. In addition some modulators (like the Delco VI series) do not use solenoids but servo motors to release and apply brake pressure so the modulator is not simply digitally controlling the brake (i.e. pumping the brakes) but using analog-like controls to mantain as high a stopping force as needed.
A few years back Car and Driver magazine did a dry ABS versus non-ABS stopping test with a BMW 325i, the ABS systems were shortest in the dry and wet even compared to their test drivers.
One of the unfortunate things about ABS is that no specifications are published for the car in terms of measurement frequency and modulation control frequency. Most manufacturers do not publish this info, a decade or so ago BMW had ads saying how their ABS systems were far improved over other manufacturers ABS systems. People tend to think all ABS systems are created equal, a Porsche Bosch ABS controller is far superior to the system put into a Toyota Camary.
In terms of the shortest stopping distance, when ABS came out that was true. Early ABS systems (even the quality ones from Bosch) were not as good as a good driver in providing the shortest distance in the dry, the wet was often a tossup. The problem was how many times per second the ABS system could detect a locked wheel and make appropiate action. However the ABS technology for the controllers and their firmware has been improving dramtically in the last two decades. Some of the latest ABS systems can measure a wheel lock/slip every 6" (Ferrari F430) and can control the brake pressure modulation into hundreds of times a seconds. And on poor pavement (snow, ice, ...) the early (keyword here) had longer stopping distances. Again as DSP chip technology has made mobile phones smaller and more capable, it has done the same for ABS controllers along with much better firmware. In addition some modulators (like the Delco VI series) do not use solenoids but servo motors to release and apply brake pressure so the modulator is not simply digitally controlling the brake (i.e. pumping the brakes) but using analog-like controls to mantain as high a stopping force as needed.
A few years back Car and Driver magazine did a dry ABS versus non-ABS stopping test with a BMW 325i, the ABS systems were shortest in the dry and wet even compared to their test drivers.
One of the unfortunate things about ABS is that no specifications are published for the car in terms of measurement frequency and modulation control frequency. Most manufacturers do not publish this info, a decade or so ago BMW had ads saying how their ABS systems were far improved over other manufacturers ABS systems. People tend to think all ABS systems are created equal, a Porsche Bosch ABS controller is far superior to the system put into a Toyota Camary.
Originally Posted by geekybiker
Well, assuming you have someone who just mashes the pedal that might be true. A good driver can outbrake ABS even in optimal conditions for it. The unfortunate thing about ABS is most drivers never activate it until they actually are in a panic braking situation. When the pedal stats pulsing they often think something is wrong with their brakes and ease up on them.
My main issue has been the cases where ABS has activated in error. Ie undulating or broken pavement. Ive had ABS come on and not let me have the brakes untill almost too late.
That said, for most drivers and most situations its a good thing.
My main issue has been the cases where ABS has activated in error. Ie undulating or broken pavement. Ive had ABS come on and not let me have the brakes untill almost too late.
That said, for most drivers and most situations its a good thing.
#85
Assuming snow tires are better than the all-seasons in the TL, next question is about transporting them.
I don't own a torque wrench, so if I got snow tires I'd have them put on at a garage or tire-shop. But then how do I get the regular tires home? I don't think all 4 would fit in the trunk. Do I muck up the back seat or bag them? Or do I have a spouse or friend follow me in a minivan SUV or pickup truck carrying the tires. (It's starting to look like the trailers that carry the equipment that goes with a race-car.)
I'm not trying to be sarcastic - I was just wondering what most of the tire-changers do. I figure a bunch of people probably have jack-stands and large garages, but for the rest of us... ?
I don't own a torque wrench, so if I got snow tires I'd have them put on at a garage or tire-shop. But then how do I get the regular tires home? I don't think all 4 would fit in the trunk. Do I muck up the back seat or bag them? Or do I have a spouse or friend follow me in a minivan SUV or pickup truck carrying the tires. (It's starting to look like the trailers that carry the equipment that goes with a race-car.)
I'm not trying to be sarcastic - I was just wondering what most of the tire-changers do. I figure a bunch of people probably have jack-stands and large garages, but for the rest of us... ?
#86
Three Wheelin'
I have a jack and a very very very small garage. The Tl's tires arent that big though. They should be able to fit in the trunk. The tire shop should provide plastic bags for them.
#87
Originally Posted by geekybiker
I have a jack and a very very very small garage. The Tl's tires arent that big though. They should be able to fit in the trunk. The tire shop should provide plastic bags for them.
Sometimes tires look pretty large at the tire shop, and the car trunk looks small when you go to put something in it!
#88
Originally Posted by evantec
Assuming snow tires are better than the all-seasons in the TL, next question is about transporting them.
Thanks
#89
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Originally Posted by evantec
Assuming snow tires are better than the all-seasons in the TL, next question is about transporting them.
I don't own a torque wrench, so if I got snow tires I'd have them put on at a garage or tire-shop. But then how do I get the regular tires home? I don't think all 4 would fit in the trunk. Do I muck up the back seat or bag them? Or do I have a spouse or friend follow me in a minivan SUV or pickup truck carrying the tires. (It's starting to look like the trailers that carry the equipment that goes with a race-car.)
I'm not trying to be sarcastic - I was just wondering what most of the tire-changers do. I figure a bunch of people probably have jack-stands and large garages, but for the rest of us... ?
I don't own a torque wrench, so if I got snow tires I'd have them put on at a garage or tire-shop. But then how do I get the regular tires home? I don't think all 4 would fit in the trunk. Do I muck up the back seat or bag them? Or do I have a spouse or friend follow me in a minivan SUV or pickup truck carrying the tires. (It's starting to look like the trailers that carry the equipment that goes with a race-car.)
I'm not trying to be sarcastic - I was just wondering what most of the tire-changers do. I figure a bunch of people probably have jack-stands and large garages, but for the rest of us... ?
#91
07 TL-S
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Originally Posted by avs007
People keep saying the G35 is smaller than the TL.... So If you can fit 8 18" tires in a G35 Coupe then certainly it can be done in a TL too
#92
The closet is for wimps
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Glad to report that the significant snow we had in WI yesterday was not a big issue for me with the TL. After work, I got out of my parking spot just fine even though I was kinda plowed in.. with 1' drifts on all sides and the ride home across town was just peachy with slush and snow-packed roads. No sliding, no trouble getting traction to start moving from a stop.
#93
Drifting
Originally Posted by mu1980
with 1' drifts on all sides and the ride home across town was just peachy with slush and snow-packed roads. No sliding, no trouble getting traction to start moving from a stop.
#94
Racer
ABSs' main purpose is not to stop shorter but for the driver to Maintain steering control during a panic stop whereas it pumps the brakes 100X faster than a human plus it can do indivual wheels. As someone mentioned earlier it can lengthen the stopping distances on some surfaces but you still have some steering control.
And using the engine to slow down on AWD doesn't help. I tried that before when I got caught in a snow storm in my AWD 3000GT 6-spd. I downshifted to second and slowly lifted off the clutch. All four wheels locked up... The car went into a four wheel drift. I didn't have any steering control or anything. Luckly I pushed the clutch in quickly to get the wheels rolling again and just stop on the threshold of ABS engaging. But for those couple of second was scary as I wasn't on the brakes and my wheels are locked up.
And using the engine to slow down on AWD doesn't help. I tried that before when I got caught in a snow storm in my AWD 3000GT 6-spd. I downshifted to second and slowly lifted off the clutch. All four wheels locked up... The car went into a four wheel drift. I didn't have any steering control or anything. Luckly I pushed the clutch in quickly to get the wheels rolling again and just stop on the threshold of ABS engaging. But for those couple of second was scary as I wasn't on the brakes and my wheels are locked up.
#95
The closet is for wimps
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Originally Posted by avs007
1' drifts, that's not snow This is snow (just playin')
#96
Originally Posted by CometVR4
And using the engine to slow down on AWD doesn't help. I tried that before when I got caught in a snow storm in my AWD 3000GT 6-spd. I downshifted to second and slowly lifted off the clutch. All four wheels locked up... The car went into a four wheel drift. I didn't have any steering control or anything. Luckly I pushed the clutch in quickly to get the wheels rolling again and just stop on the threshold of ABS engaging. But for those couple of second was scary as I wasn't on the brakes and my wheels are locked up.
It all depends on how fast you are going, what kind of tires you have, and what gear you put it into for downshifting to be more effective than abs.
#97
07 TL-S
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we got a foot of snow this friday, didn't drive my car all morning (went around in a friends ML) then took it out in the afternoon. Handled fine in the barely plowed roads. Amazed that I never really slipped while accelerating. My ABS never went on during any of my braking on ice and everything. (probably due to new tires). The only time i'd really slip was trying to turn, i'd start to fish tail, give it a little gas (cuz my front wheels held well) and even out. it was actually pretty fun. The only thing that'd be nice is a little more ground clearence. It's scary going over snow mounds from stupid plows. At least I knew it wasn't ice yet.
Another thing to note; make sure you clean off that right foot really good before drving around. Aluminium Pedals + Ice/snow shoes = fun time. At least the brake pedal has rubber grips.
Another thing to note; make sure you clean off that right foot really good before drving around. Aluminium Pedals + Ice/snow shoes = fun time. At least the brake pedal has rubber grips.
#98
Drifting
Originally Posted by ubnpast
revved and put it into 1st, if I had not done that, I would of hit the people in front of me because of the ice under the snow.
Explain to me how engine braking will slow you down faster, I'd like to know.
#99
Originally Posted by avs007
I call bs. Engine braking will slow you down, but it will not slow you down faster than slamming on the brakes. If you don't believe me, go do some 60-0 panic stop tests, using the brakes, and engine braking.
Explain to me how engine braking will slow you down faster, I'd like to know.
Explain to me how engine braking will slow you down faster, I'd like to know.
It helps under some circumstances, and out performs ABS in some circumstances. Imagine going down a slight hill, you slam on the brakes, due to the ABS locking and unlocking each wheel (in the snow) your pedal jumps which is normal, but the tires cant get traction on the ice and snow by locking and unlocking so fast.
Now your going down the same hill same conditions and have to stop the same way, by downshifting the tires actually grab the snow and ice better because they are not constantly locking and unlocking, but are turning freely with the transmission at a slower speed, which slows the car down.
I am tired of explaining this to people who dont believe me. The fact is that it worked for me, and if it doesnt for anyone that had in fact had their own AWD car and driven in the snow themselves (your friends dont count because you are not controlling the car) you are not doing something right. If you do in fact have a AWD car that you drive regularly, come over to my house, I will prove to you that it actually outperforms ABS in tractionless conditions.
#100
Ottawa '02 3.2 Type-S
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I live in the second coldest capital city in the world, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada only Moscow beats our average winter temps! I am on my second season with the TL-S 02 and use Toyo winter tires 16s and find the car to be good/average in the snow. Sometimes around corners it slips a bit but that can be expected with the weight of the 260 hp engine I am sure. cheers!
#101
Drifting
Originally Posted by ubnpast
Holy shit, someone cannot read.
Originally Posted by ubnpast
How fast were you going? I had a 94 vr4, and was going about 20mph and the people in front of me stopped for a red light, I revved and put it into 1st, if I had not done that, I would of hit the people in front of me because of the ice under the snow.
Traction is traction, doesn't matter if the force is coming from your engine or your brakes. Only difference between ABS and downshifting, is what happens if you exceed the traction limits of the tires on any given surface. ABS will pulse the brakes. Downshifting, you may end up sliding out of control.
Originally Posted by ubnpast
Now your going down the same hill same conditions and have to stop the same way, by downshifting the tires actually grab the snow and ice better because they are not constantly locking and unlocking,
Originally Posted by ubnpast
but are turning freely with the transmission at a slower speed, which slows the car down.
Originally Posted by ubnpast
The fact is that it worked for me, and if it doesnt for anyone that had in fact had their own AWD car and driven in the snow themselves
Originally Posted by ubnpast
I will prove to you that it actually outperforms ABS in tractionless conditions.
#102
You had never owned nor operated an awd car in the snow, so first off I would like to tell you to eat shit .
I certainly can remember what I type, its idiots like you that make me remember.
Wow you can comprehend the first part, idk what happened, maybe you have a frost bitten brain?. Traction is traction yes, but you will get better traction if YOU (which you currently dont) know how to complete the task the right way.
Go try that with awd on snow and ice, and have a car that weighs 2 tons. Wait, thats right you dont have one .
I guess its people like you that never been on snow or ice, you people cause all the accidents which lead to higher insurance. Lets just feather the brake pedal when people in front of you are stopped...
The fact is I know how to drive a car, and what makes me so good at is that I can predict what it will do next, instead of waiting to see what will happen .
Here is something you do not know, with awd all tires turn at the same speed. So all tires are slowing down at the same speed.
Get a life.
Originally Posted by avs007
More like somebody cannot remember what they typed
Originally Posted by avs007
Sounds like you said that if you hadn't downshifted, ABS would not have stopped in time. Hence you are claiming downshifting allowed you to stop faster.
Traction is traction, doesn't matter if the force is coming from your engine or your brakes. Only difference between ABS and downshifting, is what happens if you exceed the traction limits of the tires on any given surface. ABS will pulse the brakes. Downshifting, you may end up sliding out of control.
Traction is traction, doesn't matter if the force is coming from your engine or your brakes. Only difference between ABS and downshifting, is what happens if you exceed the traction limits of the tires on any given surface. ABS will pulse the brakes. Downshifting, you may end up sliding out of control.
Originally Posted by avs007
Again, I call bs. If you have awesome tires that allows it to "grab" the snow/ice without locking up, then it has enough traction to allow you to hit the brakes without them locking up too. After I got new tires on my other car, I even tried slamming on the brakes on the hill by my house in the snow, and the ABS did not engage.
Originally Posted by avs007
If there is enough traction to allow the sudden change in speed without causing the tires to slide, then you could've hit the brakes without engaging the ABS.
Originally Posted by avs007
Fact is, you are assuming that the ABS would've engaged had you hit the brakes in the same situation. 99% of the time, using your brakes to slow down is the safer thing to do. Especially considering that even if ABS is whacking out on you, you could still try to steer around whatever it is you are trying to avoid. If you downshift because you think you may stop faster, but then enter a 4-wheel slide, you'll probably have no hope of steering around it.
Originally Posted by avs007
If you are in a tractionless situation, how the hell is downshifting going to slow you down? You need traction to slow down.
Get a life.
#103
Drifting
Originally Posted by ubnpast
You had never owned nor operated an awd car in the snow, so first off I would like to tell you to eat shit .
Originally Posted by ubnpast
Traction is traction yes, but you will get better traction if YOU (which you currently dont) know how to complete the task the right way.
Originally Posted by ubnpast
Go try that with awd on snow and ice, and have a car that weighs 2 tons. Wait, thats right you dont have one .
Originally Posted by ubnpast
I guess its people like you that never been on snow or ice, you people cause all the accidents which lead to higher insurance. Lets just feather the brake pedal when people in front of you are stopped...
Originally Posted by ubnpast
Here is something you do not know, with awd all tires turn at the same speed. So all tires are slowing down at the same speed.
#104
Originally Posted by avs007
you will skid the tires
Originally Posted by avs007
We have brake lights for a reason I'd like to see you try to swerve around a kid that bolts out into the snowy street by downshifting and entering a 4-wheel skid.
Originally Posted by avs007
Unless you have a locker
Originally Posted by avs007
or perhaps are in an SUV
Originally Posted by avs007
all tires do not necessarily turn at the same speed. If they did, then how do you turn, when the inner side of your car is traversing a smaller circle than the outer side of your car?
Originally Posted by avs007
The fact that all wheels are slowing down at the same rate is irrelevent when talking about how fast you are slowing down your car.
Originally Posted by avs007
With brake-force distribution, the brakes do a wonderful job of trying to spread the load to all the wheels.
Originally Posted by avs007
You said yourself that you have to have really good tires for your scenario.
[QUOTE=avs007]If you have really good tires, the ABS may not necessarily engage anyways.
The abs willl come on when the tires are on icey snow if you really stepped on the brake pedal.
Originally Posted by avs007
And if you had such poor traction that it does engage, then downshifting will result in all the wheels skidding as they spin slower, but there isn't enough friction with the ice/snow for the ground to match speed with the rotational speed of the tires.
I am done replying to your uneducated comments, I do not feel like wasting my time, especially when trying to aregue with you, which you do not even know what you are talking about. Good for you with your g35, just because you own one does not mean you know how to drive it.
#105
AZ Community Team
Originally Posted by ubnpast
Speak english much?
Brake lights dont let you stop any faster, and I never said anything about swerving in snow, learn to read dipshit. You dont skid either by downshifting, you may for a split second loose traction, but the traction you gain is far better than abs. A 4 wheel skid is if you dont have abs or are sliding sideways, downshifting in a straight line will not make YOU skid.
I dont need one, I forget what kind of differential my old car had, but it acted as if it was a locker.
What does a suv have to do with anything?
Thats why they make all different types of differentials.
What planet are you from? You certainly are not from around here, because you dont know what you are talking about.
Yes, key word "trying"
Well I have never driven without snow tires, so I cannot say anything about other tires.
The wheels would only have a loss of traction for a split second, nothing compared to abs. If there is snow and ice on the ground, the slower spinning tires will scrape it up, sometimes enough to touch the road sometimes not.
I am done replying to your uneducated comments, I do not feel like wasting my time, especially when trying to aregue with you, which you do not even know what you are talking about. Good for you with your g35, just because you own one does not mean you know how to drive it.
Brake lights dont let you stop any faster, and I never said anything about swerving in snow, learn to read dipshit. You dont skid either by downshifting, you may for a split second loose traction, but the traction you gain is far better than abs. A 4 wheel skid is if you dont have abs or are sliding sideways, downshifting in a straight line will not make YOU skid.
I dont need one, I forget what kind of differential my old car had, but it acted as if it was a locker.
What does a suv have to do with anything?
Thats why they make all different types of differentials.
What planet are you from? You certainly are not from around here, because you dont know what you are talking about.
Yes, key word "trying"
Well I have never driven without snow tires, so I cannot say anything about other tires.
The wheels would only have a loss of traction for a split second, nothing compared to abs. If there is snow and ice on the ground, the slower spinning tires will scrape it up, sometimes enough to touch the road sometimes not.
I am done replying to your uneducated comments, I do not feel like wasting my time, especially when trying to aregue with you, which you do not even know what you are talking about. Good for you with your g35, just because you own one does not mean you know how to drive it.
from this link
" There are also some situations in which four-wheel drive provides no advantage over two-wheel drive. Most notably, four-wheel-drive systems won't help you stop on slippery surfaces. It's all up to the brakes and the anti-lock braking system (ABS)"
Seriously for your own good Google "tires coefficent friction ice snow dynamic static", read some of the links that explain physics and how vehicle dynamics and tires work and educate yourself.
#107
Safety Car
iTrader: (1)
I drove the G35x in the snow (my sister-in-law's brand new 2006) .. and IT ROCKS!!
My Aspec TL is "ok" in the snow .. beats the hell outta RWD. The G35x has a kewl feature where you can split the front/rear power 50/50 in very bad conditions .. gets you out FAST.
My VSA actually kicks in once in a while (the yaw-control component of VSA, that is) and it's cool to feel the outer corner wheel braking to "swing" you through your turn... me likey.
My Aspec TL is "ok" in the snow .. beats the hell outta RWD. The G35x has a kewl feature where you can split the front/rear power 50/50 in very bad conditions .. gets you out FAST.
My VSA actually kicks in once in a while (the yaw-control component of VSA, that is) and it's cool to feel the outer corner wheel braking to "swing" you through your turn... me likey.
#108
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/four-wheel-drive.htm
from this link
" There are also some situations in which four-wheel drive provides no advantage over two-wheel drive. Most notably, four-wheel-drive systems won't help you stop on slippery surfaces. It's all up to the brakes and the anti-lock braking system (ABS)"
Seriously for your own good Google "tires coefficent friction ice snow dynamic static", read some of the links that explain physics and how vehicle dynamics and tires work and educate yourself.
from this link
" There are also some situations in which four-wheel drive provides no advantage over two-wheel drive. Most notably, four-wheel-drive systems won't help you stop on slippery surfaces. It's all up to the brakes and the anti-lock braking system (ABS)"
Seriously for your own good Google "tires coefficent friction ice snow dynamic static", read some of the links that explain physics and how vehicle dynamics and tires work and educate yourself.
They are referring to 4 wheel drive in that article, not awd.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed...//www.iihs.org
It is even possible on some surfaces to stop sooner without antilocks than with them, although such instances are rare. They occur, for example, when loosely packed snow or gravel creates a "dam" effect in front of locked wheels, shortening the stopping distance more than antilocks could.
#109
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Originally Posted by ubnpast
Ok, you want some too ?
They are referring to 4 wheel drive in that article, not awd.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed...//www.iihs.org
They are referring to 4 wheel drive in that article, not awd.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed...//www.iihs.org
You are arguing with this guy and totally getting owned with your own remarks.
And btw, letting people behind you know your slowing down by tapping your brake is a good way to prevent an accident, especially in bad weather.
#110
Originally Posted by massr1
WTF does it matter?? Why don't you understand the physics of a vehicle stopping? All wheels with power doesn't make you stop sooner, it only helps with acceleration.
You are arguing with this guy and totally getting owned with your own remarks.
And btw, letting people behind you know your slowing down by tapping your brake is a good way to prevent an accident, especially in bad weather.
You are arguing with this guy and totally getting owned with your own remarks.
And btw, letting people behind you know your slowing down by tapping your brake is a good way to prevent an accident, especially in bad weather.
And your what 18? How long have you been driving? I bet you really know how to drive your parents car, huh?
#111
Drifting
Originally Posted by ubnpast
Speak english much?
Originally Posted by ubnpast
Brake lights dont let you stop any faster
Originally Posted by ubnpast
, and I never said anything about swerving in snow, learn to read dipshit.
Originally Posted by ubnpast
You dont skid either by downshifting, you may for a split second loose traction, but the traction you gain is far better than abs. A 4 wheel skid is if you dont have abs or are sliding sideways, downshifting in a straight line will not make YOU skid.
Originally Posted by ubnpast
What does a suv have to do with anything?
Originally Posted by ubnpast
What planet are you from? You certainly are not from around here, because you dont know what you are talking about.
Originally Posted by ubnpast
Yes, key word "trying"
Originally Posted by ubnpast
The wheels would only have a loss of traction for a split second, nothing compared to abs. If there is snow and ice on the ground, the slower spinning tires will scrape it up, sometimes enough to touch the road sometimes not.
Originally Posted by ubnpast
I am done replying to your uneducated comments, I do not feel like wasting my time, especially when trying to aregue with you, which you do not even know what you are talking about.
Originally Posted by ubnpast
I said that because the article did not state whether the 4wd was in fact engaged.
#112
Drifting
Originally Posted by ubnpast
And your what 18? How long have you been driving? I bet you really know how to drive your parents car, huh?
#113
AZ Community Team
avs007, I commend you for trying to explain the laws of vehicle dynamics and physics to others in this thread but I feel as if we're trying to explain that the world is round in 1492. Let them believe it's flat.
#114
Originally Posted by avs007
Just because somebody drives for 30 years does not make them a better driver than somebody who only drove for 10 years. That would be like me trying to argue that I'm a better golfer than Tiger Woods or Michelle Wie.
#115
Since 99% of you never had a awd car, I posted my question on the forum for ad cars
I have recieved these replies:
If anyone feels the need to argue my point any further please PM me, I am not going to keep posting on someones thread who just asked how the performance of the tl was in the snow.
It seems to work better for me if I downshift on snowy icy roads, my snow tires grab the road better and slow the vr4 down, the abs just seems to keep pulsing the tires uselessly.
usually downshift to bleed off some speed, then gently apply my brakes, keeping ABS from kicking in on most snow and ice...doesn't help that I'm running Yokohama AVS ES100s year round.
just pull the fuse. thats what everyone else does. abs is well known not to work worth a damn in snow.
Forget who it was, probably Multiades or Struggly, but someone tried stopping on snow with and without ABS, and stopped quicker without ABS.
Having replaced some synchros when I got the car, I rev-match when down-shifting, and let the engine itself brake...
#116
Drifting
Originally Posted by ubnpast
So someone who just got their license is going to be a better driver than someone who has been handling their car and other cars for 10+ years?
That's like me saying that all squares are rectangles, and then you try to say I'm wrong because this rectangle is not a square.
#117
Drifting
Originally Posted by ubnpast
Since 99% of you never had a awd car, I posted my question on the forum for ad cars
I've seen many people try to argue that fraternal twin occurs when one sperm fertilizes two eggs.
And who "proved" that ABS is worthless in the snow? Go to munich, and go to the Deutche Museum. There is an exhibit there on ABS and VSA. One of them even has a demonstration of a Mercedes Benz with ABS on and off driving on the snow. It clearly shows that ABS does in fact provide benafits on the snow.
Did you know that static friction > kinetic friction? If you understood that, you'll understand why ABS works the way it does, and why letting go of the wheel is preferable than allowing it to skid.
Car and Driver even did a test (many moons ago) of various tires in the wet with/without abs. When comparing the same tire, in every test, ABS outbraked non-ABS. However, when comparing across tires, some tires were able to stop faster in full lock and slide than other crappier tires with ABS. However, same tests of these tires, showed that they still stopped faster with ABS.
Sure, under perfect circumstances, a sliding tire may gain extra drag-friction by pushing a pile of snow, and that extra traction combined with the decreased traction afforded by kinetic friction, may be greater than the static friction. But that doesn't mean that is always going to be the case.
#118
Drifting
Originally Posted by ubnpast
So someone who just got their license is going to be a better driver than someone who has been handling their car and other cars for 10+ years?
#120
Drifting
Just in case you think that site is biased, here are a few more:
Another site
Yet another site
How about one more site?
Nah, here's another one
Just one more
Another site
4WD and AWD can only help you accelerate, they can't help you turn or stop. This is why Colorado ditches are clogged with SUVs bearing Texas plates.
Having four drive wheels definitely will help keep you moving at low speeds in snow or ice. What it won't do is help you stop any better.
However, drivers of four-wheel drive vehicles should avoid becoming over confident. Four-wheel-drive does not make the car brake any better.
4WD does not help you to stop the vehicle.
Though useful in slippery conditions, AWD won’t help you stop more quickly