TL Performance in Snow??
#41
Originally Posted by kenny5
Assuming you are telling us the truth, at the tender age of 18, you are already married with a wife and can afford a new LS 460 L and G35x (at the same time), but you seem not to know much about the TL, a very popular (yet not very expensive) car that many of us drive. This is amazing!! ![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
HAHAHAHAHA
#43
Originally Posted by kenny5
Assuming you are telling us the truth, at the tender age of 18, you are already married with a wife and can afford a new LS 460 L and G35x (at the same time), but you seem not to know much about the TL, a very popular (yet not very expensive) car that many of us drive. This is amazing!! ![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
I had an 05 G35x and it had el42 tires on it. The newer ones have RSAs which are a tad better in the snow. I never got stuck but the AWD system did not inspire too much confidence in the snow. There is a snow mode but better tires are key. You are better off with a set of V rated snows.
This goes for the TL as well. The stock tires were marginal in the snow when new. Once you got 20 K on them they are even worse.
RWD requires snow tires but the RWD car that I have does very well in the snow with winter shoes. The choice is buy the G5x and not get a second set of tires or buy RWD and get a second set. Years ago everyone had RWD and they got around.
As for the TL being not too expensive LOL well I guess it depends what you are used to. Some people say more than 30K for a car is a definite luxury.
#44
'06 6MT WDP
Join Date: May 2006
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I've decided to go with the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA's on stock rims for winter and beyond. There are about 130 reviews on Tire Rack and I read just about all of them. Everyone there is saying these have excellent snow and ice traction and are more like a performance all season in the dry. Many people running these all year long with good tread wear. If my stock rims get too beat up I'll get a summer set of rims/tires.
#45
Originally Posted by chris2k5
Hey everyone, I am Chris and I am just new to the forums. I live in Boston for preference
I am out in a purchase for a TL or G35. I test drove both and I was really leaning toward the G35 but, I found the RWD. Believe it or not, the salesman told me he didn't recommend the G35 RWD because of snow and wanted me to upgrade to the AWD. I saw the price $36,000?
I went down the street to the Acura dealer and test drove it and its not as sporty but I did like how it did have FWD.
My question is...
How does the Acura TL perform in snow? I am not the type of guy who has time for the winter tire change every year and I highly doubt I will buy them :\.
I am out in a purchase for a TL or G35. I test drove both and I was really leaning toward the G35 but, I found the RWD. Believe it or not, the salesman told me he didn't recommend the G35 RWD because of snow and wanted me to upgrade to the AWD. I saw the price $36,000?
I went down the street to the Acura dealer and test drove it and its not as sporty but I did like how it did have FWD.
My question is...
How does the Acura TL perform in snow? I am not the type of guy who has time for the winter tire change every year and I highly doubt I will buy them :\.
With winter tires the car's great never got stuck anywhere not even in 2 feet of snow. But believe me, you live in boston, buy winter tires. IF you don't, pretty good chance one day you'll remember me saying so and you'll wish you bought some.
I was born in snow, and all-season tires are summer tires, believe me.
Even with awd. When you'll want to stop and the tires will be filled with snow... it will be like having slicks. You could have 8wd, the car will slid like on skis.
So buy snow tires.
#46
The closet is for wimps
Join Date: Aug 2006
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The 05 TL I just bought came with a new set of Goodyear Eagle RS-A's.. and from what I'm reading on Tirerack, they're not much better in the snow than the OEM Bridgestones.
#48
I have yet to try to drive my car in the snow but the '97 TL my parents owned used to be great in the snow. A little quirky to get moving IF it was really really bad but once you get going it's smooth sailing. But just few inches/plowed roads should be no problem at all. By the way this was on all season tires, never tried snow tires..
#49
Mud Man
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Ill throw in my 2 cents. I have the summer tires that came with my 06TL. I recently had to drive 30 miles through some minor mountain passes and it was completely snow packed. Talk about scarey. I had to go about 15 miles per hour to keep her strait. Any kind of incline would cause slipage of my front tires. Car felt real light. I would guess with some good Blizzaks my TL would have felt 100% better. BEN
#50
My two cents on AWD. Although I think the car is largely based on tires, AWD is great in the snow and even better in the rain. I just picked up a used TL coming from a Subaru WRX. The WRX had new tires, the Acura has new tires. The Acura does burnouts in the rain at partial thottle, The 320hp modfied subaru stuck to the road at full throttle in rain without traction control (they dont offer it). Both cars probally handle fine in the snow under normal driving conditions, expecially since the TL has traction control. However, if you start to kick out in a FWD car, you better just correct the wheel and pray... If you kick out in AWD, you correct the wheel and hit the gas. It always pulls out of it.
There are definately perks to AWD over FWD.
So to answer your question, the G35x would do better in the snow and rain coming from a previous AWD owner. Just my
There are definately perks to AWD over FWD.
So to answer your question, the G35x would do better in the snow and rain coming from a previous AWD owner. Just my
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
#51
The closet is for wimps
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As for me, if it's that bad where there's inches of snow on the road to contend with.. chances are I'll just stay home until it gets cleared. They're pretty good about at least plowing the roads here in WI. Keeping them properly salted is another story, though.
#52
Originally Posted by Knertified
My two cents on AWD. Although I think the car is largely based on tires, AWD is great in the snow and even better in the rain. I just picked up a used TL coming from a Subaru WRX. The WRX had new tires, the Acura has new tires. The Acura does burnouts in the rain at partial thottle, The 320hp modfied subaru stuck to the road at full throttle in rain without traction control (they dont offer it). Both cars probally handle fine in the snow under normal driving conditions, expecially since the TL has traction control. However, if you start to kick out in a FWD car, you better just correct the wheel and pray... If you kick out in AWD, you correct the wheel and hit the gas. It always pulls out of it.
There are definately perks to AWD over FWD.
So to answer your question, the G35x would do better in the snow and rain coming from a previous AWD owner. Just my![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
There are definately perks to AWD over FWD.
So to answer your question, the G35x would do better in the snow and rain coming from a previous AWD owner. Just my
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
FWD, AWD, RWD... with summer tires and even all season, it makes a bit of a difference but not much.
With summer or all season, the snow stays stuck in the tread. So you get slicks.
When breaking, even if you have awd, the car will slid like on skis and you'll bump everyone infront of you.
Got a friend with a durango and got scared with all-season on snow.
If you have AWD put good winter tires on it, and then you'll have fun. You'll get out of anything.
#54
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif)
had driven several times to Vermont for skiing, had not much problem
80mph on partialy snowy highway with TCS
altho funny part once got stuck at my own driveway, 5' clearance was not enough, got lifted and had to clear out snow underneath.
TL has 60% weight in front which gives advantage in snow
wheres G35 is close to 50% and has pushing RWD (ultimate want for race car like BMWs). But -- the rear wheels have to push another half weight of the car. which is too much, tale starts sliding. Neibour had his G35 sit all winter.
On dry and wet conditions 50/50 is what you would want, TL seems understeer quite a bit reagardless of its stability control.
stickshift without TCS, the only way to get out of deeper snow.
automatics I dont know (honestly i hate the gear change effect when it wants to, not when you need it).
----
05 TL, blue stick
proxies4
(lots of fun in a rain, when everyone is crawling u just keep pushing, these tires slices through water)
80mph on partialy snowy highway with TCS
altho funny part once got stuck at my own driveway, 5' clearance was not enough, got lifted and had to clear out snow underneath.
TL has 60% weight in front which gives advantage in snow
wheres G35 is close to 50% and has pushing RWD (ultimate want for race car like BMWs). But -- the rear wheels have to push another half weight of the car. which is too much, tale starts sliding. Neibour had his G35 sit all winter.
On dry and wet conditions 50/50 is what you would want, TL seems understeer quite a bit reagardless of its stability control.
stickshift without TCS, the only way to get out of deeper snow.
automatics I dont know (honestly i hate the gear change effect when it wants to, not when you need it).
----
05 TL, blue stick
proxies4
(lots of fun in a rain, when everyone is crawling u just keep pushing, these tires slices through water)
#55
These snow threads kill me. I feel that when its snowing, like a couple of inches on the ground, every vehicle sucks. This notion that with good snow tires you will charge through is so silly. I myself just bought Blizzak dedicated snows just because its a little better. But I emphasize the word "little!" There was hardly a difference between these and the all season Michelins that came on the TL. I have driven tons of different types of vehicles in the snow, including SUV's, small light front wheel drive cars with 13" pie cutters for wheels, my old Volvo S60R with AWD, and they all similarly suck just the same in terms of stopping and starting.
To summarize this rant filled with drivel, when its snowing, we are all in the same shitty boat for the most part. The only thing that I have found that really hooks up in the snow is this
To summarize this rant filled with drivel, when its snowing, we are all in the same shitty boat for the most part. The only thing that I have found that really hooks up in the snow is this
![](http://www.ski-doo.com/NR/rdonlyres/09AAC1BB-934C-4EFB-BB8F-A19C3B7ACA4C/0/Bkg_01_Medium.jpg)
#57
Drifting
Originally Posted by lange74
FWD, AWD, RWD... with summer tires and even all season, it makes a bit of a difference but not much.
With summer or all season, the snow stays stuck in the tread. So you get slicks.
When breaking, even if you have awd, the car will slid like on skis and you'll bump everyone infront of you.
Got a friend with a durango and got scared with all-season on snow.
With summer or all season, the snow stays stuck in the tread. So you get slicks.
When breaking, even if you have awd, the car will slid like on skis and you'll bump everyone infront of you.
Got a friend with a durango and got scared with all-season on snow.
What kind of tires were on the Durango? I know our Jeep Liberty came with Goodyear Eagle RS-A tires. Those are some of the crappiest tires you can get in that category. I replaced those tires with Continental ContiExtreme Contact All/Season tires on my other car, and they are fantastic in the snow. I even rescued my wife who got stuck in the snow with our TL wearing the stock michelin tires.
I ascended the hill by our house in 8" of snow just fine. I even slammed on the brakes a few times in our cul-de-sac, and the ABS didn't even trigger, unlike our other car wearing different tires. I have been driving on All/Season tires in the snow for almost 20 years, and have never "bumped everyone in front of me".
I also fail to see what difference AWD will make when braking....
#58
Suzuka Master
Originally Posted by avs007
I also fail to see what difference AWD will make when braking....
#59
snow tires makes BIG differences... the stock tires isn't too good in wet weather esp in snow... i got Pirelli Winter 240 Sottozero on my tl it's quiet and lots of grip
tires005.jpg?t=1164515442
tires005.jpg?t=1164515442
#62
Originally Posted by massr1
+1
Stopping distance won't make a difference with the same set of tires; if anything the AWD car may have the disadvantage here if it's heavier. When it comes to acceleration, again with the same set of winter tires on slippery cold pavement, the FWD car will experience a lot more understeer similar to that on normal pavement. If your into high performance driving in the winter (which for everyone's safety I hope your're not), then you may want to consider an AWD car.
Stopping distance won't make a difference with the same set of tires; if anything the AWD car may have the disadvantage here if it's heavier. When it comes to acceleration, again with the same set of winter tires on slippery cold pavement, the FWD car will experience a lot more understeer similar to that on normal pavement. If your into high performance driving in the winter (which for everyone's safety I hope your're not), then you may want to consider an AWD car.
#63
Originally Posted by Knertified
Parking lots are also very fun with AWD ![Too Cool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/toocool.gif)
![Too Cool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/toocool.gif)
http://vids.myspace.com/index.?fusea...oid=1364800681
#64
vc123, your tread doesnt look too deep, but your tire does have a nice pattern. Anyway here are my tires, kinda remind me of some kind of mud tire, lol. They even look more agressive on the car.
![](http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/2118000-2118999/2118094_35_full.jpg)
#65
Originally Posted by ubnpast
vc123, your tread doesnt look too deep, but your tire does have a nice pattern. Anyway here are my tires, kinda remind me of some kind of mud tire, lol. They even look more agressive on the car.
![](http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/2118000-2118999/2118094_35_full.jpg)
![](http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/2118000-2118999/2118094_35_full.jpg)
#67
Originally Posted by ubnpast
![Frown](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
#70
AZ Community Team
Originally Posted by ubnpast
AWD will stop better in snow. Why? Because you can downshift and have all 4 tires turn slower instead of locking up or having the abs kick on.
#71
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
Not true, in snow the brakes are safest and best means to decelerate. Using the engine is foolish to slow down a vehicle in slippery conditions. They give you the best means to modulate and control the deceleration forces and most inportantly if the vehicle comes across a slick spot it is very easy for ABS to control or lift off the brake to regain traction. That is not possible to do quickly with a engine being used for drag.
#72
"abs will pulse all the wheels, which leads to a longer stopping distance, on the other hand stuffing it in a lower gear will slow the car down in less of a distance then using brakes. "
^^ i highly daubt it
ABS on four wheels (suppose) to gain traction faster than locked wheel (2 or 4 regarless)
yes, there is such thing as wheel locking and digging into the snow (that creates extra snow cushion in front of the wheels), which might add to faster deceleration, but thats another topic
locked wheels totaly not gonna help on ice (they invented ABS - pulsive brake/spin to gain traction). gear downshift will be way slower process and not as accurate
^^ i highly daubt it
ABS on four wheels (suppose) to gain traction faster than locked wheel (2 or 4 regarless)
yes, there is such thing as wheel locking and digging into the snow (that creates extra snow cushion in front of the wheels), which might add to faster deceleration, but thats another topic
locked wheels totaly not gonna help on ice (they invented ABS - pulsive brake/spin to gain traction). gear downshift will be way slower process and not as accurate
#73
AZ Community Team
Again not true, ABS will only pulse the tire/wheel that is locked up. In almost all conditions ABS will stop a vehicle in the shortest distance. The two exceptions are gravel and light powder unplowed snow, in those two cases a locked wheel will build up a wedge of gravle or snow in front of the wheel. In packed, wet, or plowed snow ABS stops shortest, it ice or rain it is also shortest.
Putting it into a lower gear creates more force on the tires that is not possible to modulate, so if a tire starts to lock up there is nothing ABS/traction or stability control can do to help since the drag force is being created by engine braking which is not easily controlly quickly (unless you have a clutch pedal but you have to be very quick). Using engine braking when going downhill in the dry to avoid overheating the brakes is a good idea, however using it to slow down in slippery conditions is dangerous sicne it can cause a slide/spin.
FWIW, my wife has a Honda Pilot with AWD (granted it is not a full-time AWD system, more like a part-time AWD with engagement when slipage is detected).
Putting it into a lower gear creates more force on the tires that is not possible to modulate, so if a tire starts to lock up there is nothing ABS/traction or stability control can do to help since the drag force is being created by engine braking which is not easily controlly quickly (unless you have a clutch pedal but you have to be very quick). Using engine braking when going downhill in the dry to avoid overheating the brakes is a good idea, however using it to slow down in slippery conditions is dangerous sicne it can cause a slide/spin.
FWIW, my wife has a Honda Pilot with AWD (granted it is not a full-time AWD system, more like a part-time AWD with engagement when slipage is detected).
Originally Posted by ubnpast
IDK if they are the safest or not, I said downshifting with AWD will slow you down faster and more effectively. When there is snow or ice on the road, abs will pulse all the wheels, which leads to a longer stopping distance, on the other hand stuffing it in a lower gear will slow the car down in less of a distance then using brakes. I would say go try it, but you dont have awd.
#74
^Coming from a guy who had many awd cars, take my word for it. If you dont believe me go out and buy a awd car with a 5spd or 6 spd. Down shifting in snowy or icy conditions will stop the car faster than using brakes and having abs come on.
#75
Originally Posted by Knertified
For some reason the vid isn't working ![Frown](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
![Frown](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
#76
AZ Community Team
A colleague has a 2001 Audi S4 with a 6 MT, I've been a passenger in it in heavy snow. It stops great with the Bosch ABS system and Blizzaks tires.
This is not about believing me or you it's just the laws of physics and operation of vehicles. I also don't want someone reading this thread having an accident, wreck their cars and hurt themselves or others.
One of the things I wish DMV's would do for people learning to drive is teach a brief course in physics, tires, and vehicles. It would be extremely beneficial for reducing accidents.
This is not about believing me or you it's just the laws of physics and operation of vehicles. I also don't want someone reading this thread having an accident, wreck their cars and hurt themselves or others.
One of the things I wish DMV's would do for people learning to drive is teach a brief course in physics, tires, and vehicles. It would be extremely beneficial for reducing accidents.
Originally Posted by ubnpast
^Coming from a guy who had many awd cars, take my word for it. If you dont believe me go out and buy a awd car with a 5spd or 6 spd. Down shifting in snowy or icy conditions will stop the car faster than using brakes and having abs come on.
#77
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
A colleague has a 2001 Audi S4 with a 6 MT, I've been a passenger in it in heavy snow. It stops great with the Bosch ABS system and Blizzaks tires.
This is not about believing me or you it's just the laws of physics and operation of vehicles. I also don't want someone reading this thread having an accident, wreck their cars and hurt themselves or others.
One of the things I wish DMV's would do for people learning to drive is teach a brief course in physics, tires, and vehicles. It would be extremely beneficial for reducing accidents.
This is not about believing me or you it's just the laws of physics and operation of vehicles. I also don't want someone reading this thread having an accident, wreck their cars and hurt themselves or others.
One of the things I wish DMV's would do for people learning to drive is teach a brief course in physics, tires, and vehicles. It would be extremely beneficial for reducing accidents.
But we aren’t talking about dry pavement, we’re talking about winter driving on snow and ice. On snow and ice ABS drastically increases stopping distances.
But ABS destroys this effect in its attempt to keep the wheels rolling. As a result, the ABS controller spends much of the time with the brakes released and it takes longer to stop. On ice, the wheels lock up so readily that the ABS hardly applies the brakes at all and stopping distances are nearly doubled compared to a locked wheels slide.
#78
Drifting
Originally Posted by ubnpast
Im not saying aviod using the brakes alltogether, but downshift first to slow you down the fastest, especially when going downhill in ice.
I also still highly doubt that it's safer/faster to slow down on snow/ice by engine braking. It sounds about as safe as downshifting in the middle of a hard-curve. I fail to see how engine braking can slow you down faster than a good ABS system with electronic brake force distribution, especially when you're talking abouton snow/ice.
#79
Three Wheelin'
Brakes can easily exceed the available traction when slowing down on snow. Therefore they can provide the shortest possible stop. Engine braking might be useful in slowing down on hills, etc but cannot stop faster than your brakes.
Either case if you're in shallow enough snow to reach the pavement you really just want to lock em up and dig for the ground.
I'm not a big fan of ABS though. Its safety advantages have been proven to be dubious at best and it removes control from the driver.
Either case if you're in shallow enough snow to reach the pavement you really just want to lock em up and dig for the ground.
I'm not a big fan of ABS though. Its safety advantages have been proven to be dubious at best and it removes control from the driver.
#80
Using engine braking when going downhill in the dry to avoid overheating the brakes is a good idea
^^^ whatt are you talking about??
thats 101 for burning your clutch (the moment you downshift)
see how much you save on disk brakes when you gonna have to change the clutch plate
^^^ whatt are you talking about??
thats 101 for burning your clutch (the moment you downshift)
see how much you save on disk brakes when you gonna have to change the clutch plate