TL fishtails under full occupancy....Yes fishtailing on FWD
10-30-2014, 11:52 AM
#41
This car's multi-link rear suspension is very sensitive. I believe it contains at least one rubber sealed spherical bearing. Precision suspension requires precision alignment settings. If you experience any weird handling, immediately check & adjust your tire pressures to factory spec, and then go have your alignment checked.
On my 05, with the updated rear end, was noticeably loose with the rear wandering over uneven pavement at freeway speed. It had been less than a year since my last alignment with zero harsh potholes/curbings, so I was kinda pissed. Giving up on the in-store alignment inaccuracies, I decided to learn to do my own toe-alignments...
When I finally put the strings to this car, I was amazed to find so much toe-out in the rear. If memory serves (and it doesn't), I think I had over -5mm of total toe-out. Now that's a lot, especially when the updated factory spec says no more than -2mm. After taking the time to re-spec the rear at about ~+0.5mm the car was transformed on the freeway. Suddenly it was rock solid on the same craptastic broken-slurry-coated Reno freeway.
I guess my point is your car is only as good as your alignment....and your alignment is only as good as the machine/calibration/technician doing the job. :\
On my 05, with the updated rear end, was noticeably loose with the rear wandering over uneven pavement at freeway speed. It had been less than a year since my last alignment with zero harsh potholes/curbings, so I was kinda pissed. Giving up on the in-store alignment inaccuracies, I decided to learn to do my own toe-alignments...
When I finally put the strings to this car, I was amazed to find so much toe-out in the rear. If memory serves (and it doesn't), I think I had over -5mm of total toe-out. Now that's a lot, especially when the updated factory spec says no more than -2mm. After taking the time to re-spec the rear at about ~+0.5mm the car was transformed on the freeway. Suddenly it was rock solid on the same craptastic broken-slurry-coated Reno freeway.
I guess my point is your car is only as good as your alignment....and your alignment is only as good as the machine/calibration/technician doing the job. :\
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d1sturb3d119 (10-30-2014)
10-30-2014, 09:23 PM
#42
Race Director
Its written right there on the page I posted under step 2. Toe In 0.08 degrees. That is the basic spec every TL is aligned to. Deviation from that can cause other issues. Thats the spec verbatim from the service manual. It improves stability but like I said I prefer more oversteer than cornering stability.
Not sure what your question is beyond that.
Not sure what your question is beyond that.
10-30-2014, 09:44 PM
#43
Ah, you're right about what the service manual says, but it's wrong. I forgot that the service manual had an error. The actual specs for rear toe are 0 +/- 0.08 degrees, or -.08 to 0.08 degrees. IIRC, Acura issued a TSB or some document to correct the error in the service manual.
10-31-2014, 11:06 AM
#44
The manual isn't "wrong". The original 04 alignment spec was +2mm (toe in) +/- 2mm. The TSB in 2005 changed that to 0mm +/- 2mm along with added long bump-stops to help with reported tire-wear issues.
I can tell you this car is very twitchy with any toe-out in the rear (just as any car would be). The safest bet is anywhere between 0mm & +2mm (toe-in). That satisfies the original design specs, handling performance, AND the updated setting to quell tire wear.
Ideally you would make these changes with your "typical load" inside the vehicle. That means if you always drive alone in an empty car, you would want your weight sitting in the seat during the alignment process. If you always carry 3 kids in the back, you would want their weight in the back too during the process. This takes suspension sag out of the equation.
I can tell you this car is very twitchy with any toe-out in the rear (just as any car would be). The safest bet is anywhere between 0mm & +2mm (toe-in). That satisfies the original design specs, handling performance, AND the updated setting to quell tire wear.
Ideally you would make these changes with your "typical load" inside the vehicle. That means if you always drive alone in an empty car, you would want your weight sitting in the seat during the alignment process. If you always carry 3 kids in the back, you would want their weight in the back too during the process. This takes suspension sag out of the equation.
10-31-2014, 11:17 AM
#45
Race Director
Ideally you would make these changes with your "typical load" inside the vehicle. That means if you always drive alone in an empty car, you would want your weight sitting in the seat during the alignment process. If you always carry 3 kids in the back, you would want their weight in the back too during the process. This takes suspension sag out of the equation.
FYI: the TSB is 05-050 (which superseded 05-076)
Last edited by nfnsquared; 10-31-2014 at 11:23 AM.
10-31-2014, 11:23 AM
#46
The weird thing is that +2mm is what honda has used for their FWD lineup for decades. Civics & Integras use 2mm toe-in +2mm/-1mm. That means the rears aren't even supposed to even make it to zero ever. Of course those are semi-trailing arm mulit-link rear so who knows...
Civic/Integra Trailing arm multi-link:
Honda 5-link
Civic/Integra Trailing arm multi-link:
Honda 5-link
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d1sturb3d119 (10-31-2014)
11-01-2014, 06:20 PM
#47
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