jrock65

I had a chance to sit in both the TL and ES330 again today, and listen to a DVD-audio disc in the TL again.

First, although the quality of the interior of the TL was superb (better than the 330 or the G35), the interior of the ES was just a bit better. The quality of the leather seats, dash, surrounding materials, and controls just felt better and more refined in the Lexus. It seems that that's where Lexus decided to spend its money, and it shows.

Second, the DVD-a in the TL was a true treat to the ears. The ML in the Lexus was a bit more crisp and sharp, but it couldn't match the experience of discrete channel 5.1 surround sound. However, the TL's DVD-a has a drawback. I went to the rear seat to listen, and it really doesn't sound good back there at all. Not that it has terrible sound or anything, but not only does most of the 5.1 surround effect disappear in the back seat, but it sounds as if the fade is turned all the way to the front (i.e., the sound is coming mostly from the front.)

In any case, sitting in both cars today reaffirmed my belief in how excellent both cars are.

Bartman_RENAMED

You forgot to mention that the ES330 is ugly. :yack:
That gives TL the nod.

żGotJazz?

THe ES 330 was the first car that I looked at in my recent car search (which culminated with the TL).

The interior just didn't "grab" me. It sure was nice and "cush" - but it was rather uninspired in my opinion. The drive was OK, but I was looking for something with more cojones.

I do wish that I spent more time with the Levinson auto sound system. I have some Levinson home equipment, and it's d@mned good stuff. Maybe I'll check it out this afternoon at the nearby Lexus dealer.

I agree with Bartman - the exterior of the ES330 didn't seem very sporty for a sports sedan.

When I finally found the 04TL (didn't know anything about it 'till I saw it in the showroom), it was love at first sight. The interior seemed more cohesive. After driving it, I was sold - I struggled to hide the "gottahaveit" feelings from the salesperson.

It didn't work with that salesperson ... he only offered MSRP, with the "You're lucky that our dealership doesn't sell these for more than MSRP - others do." line of bull.

So, I gave my money to another dealer instead.

danno

The ES330 is for someone who doesn`t care what the HP is

LED Master

Acutually in an interview, Elliot Schiner told the temple of Vtec that he would have liked to add tweeters to the back so that the experiance would be better for the rear passengers, but could not due to constraints from Acura (IE $$$).

Add tweeters in the back via a cutoff from each rear speaker and I bet it will sound good in the back, but who cares, we are up front!

żGotJazz?

My thoughts exactly!

DNA

Tweeters in the back and center channels would improve the sound for the front passengers as well, especially for 5.1 DVD-A. Also what would help would be decent tweeters, not the ones in the TL that peak at 6 Khz and drop off sharper above that. The reason that the ML sounds better for 2-channel sources is that it has a flatter frequency response and higher frequency extension.

However, none of this explains why the DVD-A 5.1 sound isn't very good for rear passengers. The reason is simply that they hear mostly the ambient rear channels, not the main front channels. The same thing happens even in a high-end home 5.1 audio system if you sit close to the rear channels. There is not much that can be done about this. In an interview with "The Absolute Sound" magazine a couple months, Acura said that that typical TL buyers would rarely have rear passengers so they weren't concerned about this. Obviously a couple people above agree as would I. The alternative is to play 2-channel sources if you have rear passengers you want to hear half-way decent sound.

VTEC=happiness

Why are so many people comparing the ES and the TL...I think they are two totaly diffrent cars for two totaly different audiences...the ES is crazy ugly and is designed with the old blind person in mind

Modeler

That's funny, when did they allow driving cars from back seats?

Seriously though, given that something like 97% of drivers drive alone almost all of the time, who cares? And when you do have passengers in the car, it's much more likely that you'd be talking, not listening to music.

2obsessed

Danno said it. If you don't care about performance, the ES is probably for you, it is cushier and bigger. The TL has a much stiffer ride, and a smaller back seat. But the ES does not even come close to the TL in acceleration, braking, and handling. I drove that car and suddenly had a stange craving for Geritol, prune juice, and Matlock.

Z Factor

I agree that both cars have the +'s and -'S, but I obviously still prefer the TL

youngmic

DNA, where did you get that spec for the tweeters?

DNA

I measured them using a calibrated mic about 2" from the center of the grill. (The windshield prevented me from getting any further away and remain on-axis.) I have graphs and if there is any interest, I can post them.

I was trying to figure out why I couldn't hear very much high frequencies from my TL system. (I hear them fine in my home system and in live music.) Initial audio spectral analysis of the entire system (which I posted here a couple months ago) confirmed that the high-end starts dropping off above 6 KHz or so with very little above 12 Khz. Since then I've taken more measurements to see if the problem was the lack of tweeters in the center and rear channels, perhaps that the tweeters are facing up rather than toward the listener, or if they were the tweeters themselves. Back then I doubted the tweeters were the problem.

However, more recent measurements indicate that the main problem is the tweeters. Since I did not measure the input to the tweeters it is possible that the problem is before the tweeters or that there is intentional roll-off of the upper frequencies. However, this seems unlikely. It would cost more to add EQ so it seems unlikely they would intentionally degrade the performance. It also seems unlikely that the electronics are dropping off that much as even cheap amps are nearly ruler flat to beyond 20 KHz.

youngmic

Hmm...

Well, I'm thinking about dropping a set of Boston Acoustics pro series components into the front. What I'm afraid of, though, is that I'll wreck whatever balance currently exists. I'll end up having to replace everything to make myself happy. But we're only talking about something like $1200. Also, I don't know what I use for the 3.25" center speaker. Boston Acoustics has a 3.5 - but it is not the same series. I'd like to have the same series all around.