Wildcat Jon

Let me first say I love everything about this car and I love getting in it every day. But, I have what I guess is the flat spotting problem, as I live in Cincy and we have our share of cold weather. Again, I assume this is the problem. I took my TL in bc of misalignment on Friday and also asked about the vibrations. Some days they are worse than others. I live 1 mile from the freeway, and thus, the vibrations are immediately apparent in my 30 minute commute. They were particurly bad this morning after the car sat for 3 days in my garage.

The service mgr said *(paraphrasing) that "oh, everyone is aware of this problem, but we can't do anything for you. You have to call Acura Customer Care and report the problem. We can't believe Acura put these Bridgestones on this car. We have always received Michelins on our Acuras and we're told to recommend Michelins as replacement tires. Bridgestone Turanzas are made with nylon belts which cause flatspotting. It is inherent in the design of these tires. They handle pretty well, but you shouldn't have to live with thumping/vibrating tires on a brand new $35,000 car. However, I can't help you. Acura Corporate has to make the call."

So, I called Acura Corporate and reported my problem today. Lady said she saw no other reported problems re: tire vibration. However, she would refer my case to a "case manager" who would call me within 2-3 days. She asked what I wanted, and I said that the service guy said that the tires really cannot be fixed and should be replaced, soooo, I guess I want new tires. She said ok. I'll let you know what happens when and if I get the call from Acura C.C. Any similar experiences?

************* UPDATE on 1/7/04**************

FYI, Case manager at Acura Client Services called me today. Said they were now "aware" of the tire vibration problem and that Acura was working on a solution. Said he couldn't divulge any other details at this time but would be contacting me "when Acura had finalized the fix for the problem."

scelipt

Yah, Everyone has the same fin problem. Read the other posts

Wildcat Jon

I know - I've read everthing on here. I just wondered if anyone had gotten resolution through this "case manager" process through Acura. It seems most people getting tires replaced (Acuraaddict, Jimmy Z) worked through the dealers primarily.

Tripp11

I find it odd that the lady from Acura Corporate said that she noted no other complaints on the tire vibration when I know several people have called and logged complaints regarding the vibration. Well, hopefully, with all of the calls from customers and now some of the dealers making their own call to replace tires, this situation might improve soon for everyone.

As a sidenote, I don't recall anyone on here getting any sort of tire replacement from Acura Corporate - only the select dealers helping out a customer here and there as you already noted.

jimthegreek

The tire resolution for now is being taken care of by each individual dealership at their own expense to make you happy....

Acura and Bridgestone are going to be replacing the tires as soon as the beginning of next month.... There will be an advisory on certain VIN's that have the issue... It was a bad lot of tires....

Hmm... I thouhgt only Firestone made ****ty tires..... Well i'd rather havea tire that vibrates like a mofo, rather than flying off the vehicle :p

Wildcat Jon

Jimmy, my vin is in the 19000s and I still have the problem. Car is 2 weeks old with 450 miles on it. Soooo, how large is the issue with the "bad lot". My service guy, as stated above, said this was "inherent in the tire design bc of the nylon belt". Is this in ALL Turanzas or inherent in the 'bad lot" of Turanzas?

jimthegreek

from what i was told...

its up until about 2 weeks ago production vehicles that have this issue.. your car may fall into the category... The new vehicles that are coming of the line now and should arrive to dealerships in the next 3-5 weeks are a-ok...

Wildcat Jon

Why then would the lady I spoke with say "I see no evidence of this problem with anyone else" if in fact they are going to replace tires?

6spdzoomzoom

My service manager states this is false....

LSIII

Jim, actually firestone and bridgestone are the same company..... www.bridgestone-firestone.com

timnguyen9

If the Turanzas will still have the nylon belts that is well known to cause flatspotting, how can this vibration problem fix. I doubt that there was a bad batch, it is an inherent characteristic of the tire design.

Wildcat Jon

The inherent design with nylon was cited by my service mgr. To repeat, he thinks these tires are not fit for the TL and was surprised they were selected. He said Michelins have always been high quality, no problem tires for all Acura vehicles and wishes Acura would switch to Michies on the TL. However, he wouldn't help me out since he views this as a widespread issue with all TLs. "Call Corporate".

alvon

jimthegreek - do you know whether the new cars will come with "improved" Turanzas or with different brand of tires ?

2004tlinNY1

so here is my story. i took my tl into the dealer. dealer has been 1st rate and service manger is very responsive.

the service manager rode with me and heard the thump/resonance/vibration (whatever!) and let me try 2 other sets of tires and rims on my 04 TL (5AT). one set from a 03 tl and a brand new set from a 6MT with the "summer" tires. bottom line---- no change! i am convinced that it is a powertrain issue! i have a meeting with the field rep this week. but my service manger told me the rep is also aware of the probelm in his 04TL and it is generally agreed it is due to the torque converter generating the thump/resonance/vibration.

i'll keep you posted.:argue:

DMZ

Bridgestone and Firestone are now the same company.

LED Master

Which vibration do you have? Is it the one where at 50mph and no accel, and around 1500rpms, the car vibrates and drones? If it is, you are right, it is not the tires, it is the tranny.

There are three types people are feeling:

1. Cold flat spotting - after a few hours in cold (sub - 50F) the cars thump for first 5-10 miles until they warm up - caused by nylon belts in tires!
2. Misc vibrations at various speeds - and somewhat reproducable. These are caused by tires/wheels, no one has been able to narrow these down, even after rebalancing.
3. The 1500rpm vibration/drone, happens at this speed at 30-35mph and 50-55mph when staying at a steady speed, no exact cause, but most likely tranny.

We need to keep these straight, as we are all getting mixed up, and types 1 and 2 are tire, 3 is most likely not.

2004tlinNY1

i am not sensitive enough to separate this problem into its component parts. but if pressed to do so: my vibration/thump/resonance starts at 55 or so and gets progressively worse up to at least 80-85. it is more of a very low frequency repetitive noise coming from the front end. my tires have been removed and balanced twice with no improvement. also the swap of tires and rims noted in prior post had no discriminative effect (in fact 03 TL rims and tires seemed to make it somewhat worse!). perhaps it should be aligned?

beats me. anyhow, i have this day job that is supposed to keep me occupied, but i seem to have time to post here occasionally!!

best

LED Master

2004TLinNY1,

One sure fire way to tell if it is the tranny causing the vibrations is to downshift in SS mode to 4th gear once you get the vibration, if it goes away, it is the tranny vibration issue, if it does not go away, shift to neutral and glide for a short bit, if it does not go away, it may not be the tranny causing the vibration.

good luck!

Quincy

I have problem # 3 but mine is a 6 speed

3. The 1500rpm vibration/drone, happens at this speed at 30-35mph and 50-55mph when staying at a steady speed, no exact cause, but most likely tranny.

Peters

Quicy, you may want to refer to this thread:

http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=68429

2004tlinNY1

the droning is there pretty much all the time in 5th, the nature of the sound changes when downshifting to 4th, but seems to me to be present. i am unaware of anything at 30mph, but now that i have that to worry about, i plan to get upset about that too!!

my overall complaint is: this is a nice car, but too much noise on the highway. my feeling is acura should fix it - they are the engineers. if everyone knows about it, then they shouldn't have a hard time diagnosing it. when acura shows up at my job and does my work, then i'll figure this out for them. until then, i am not happy and i have told prospective buyers just that. kinda makes me look somewhat foolish, since i bought the car, but how would i have known in advance??

regards
and over and out

need4spd

Intersting, I thought it was the torque converter locking up (see fsconsult's earlier posts), if it is in the 6spd also, and at the same speed/rpm then something else is amiss.

http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=66382

http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=67158

rets

It may not related, but this may tell you something if Acura plans to replace by any set of EL42 tires.

What is your tires' manufacture Date? I'm 3903, flatspot but no vibration (if we insisit EL42s caused the problem). Some other ppl have 4806 & 4603 without issues, too...

mitchdeerfield

30 DAY TEST DRIVE
All Bridgestone and Firestone passenger light truck tires except: runflat, sealant, winter, temporary spare tires and selected Dayton tires (Daytona ZR with UNI-T, Daytona HR with UNI-T and Daytona SR with UNI-T) sold through an authorized dealer are covered by the 30 Day Test Drive. If a retail customer who purchased eligible Bridgestone, Firestone or Dayton tires is not completely satisfied, they can return the tires to the location from which the tires were purchased within “30 days” of purchase for a full refund or exchange. Original proof of purchase is required. Tires received as original equipment on new vehicles are not covered by the 30 Day Test Drive. See retailer for details.

Peters

The official word is that the problem has been acknowledged and Acura is working on a fix with Bridgstone to be released this quarter. They assert that the EL42 was designed for the car and recommend not changing tires at this time.

need4spd

Tires received as original equipment on new vehicles are not covered by the 30 Day Test Drive.

Note this important line in that clause!

rets

That should be the rule applying to us.

I did read that clause a long time ago, but just couldn't remember where I saw it. Thanks for your reminder, need4spd.

webster

"Acura Canada
The official word is that the problem has been acknowledged and Acura is working on a fix with Bridgstone to be released this quarter. They assert that the EL42 was designed for the car and recommend not changing tires at this time."

Is this info from Acura Canada or from the dealer ?
I am also checking through my daughters friend who works for Acura Canada in Marketing/Sales...will be interesting what he has to say?

frqwntbyr

Probably unrelated, but don't forget the exhaust issue. MDX revamp in 04 talks of increasing HP slightly via some kind of valve or butterfly thing that does something different (opens or closes) at some pressure or RPM level (obviously, I'm not real technical). In transition, something unstable happens. Bottom line is that it may be a similar exhaust system design issue w/the TL. In the MDX the "resonance" is very pronounced at 68-72 at 1900-2000 RPM. But that is where people coast and notice it--expect its happening at other speeds in similar RPM range. Don't know if Acura has a tread on it, but Edmunds does. But "Resonance" shouldn't cause any "thumps." I've got a 5A, VIN in the 7000's and don't hear of feel anything. Expect when it gets real cold I'll notice the tires flat spot. Good luck.

Peters

This is from Acura Canada directly.

Wildcat Jon

I'm driving with the service mgr at 8:00 Tues morning since my car was pulling left last week pretty harshly on the freeway and still does so after a 4 wheel alignment last Friday. I'm going to query more about the tire issue on this drive as well. It is good and cold here in Cincy so the flatspotting should be in full force for the drive. I'll report in later. . . . . . . .

rets

I never thought about this. Don't know.

But I could provide some extra info. Yes, TL does use the similar manifold system as other Acura vehicles.

Acura says:

DUAL-STAGE INTAKE MANIFOLD

Like the previous TL Type-S and the MDX, the new TL has a dual-stage intake manifold. Working in concert with VTEC, this manifold improves low-speed torque without sacrificing high rpm power. The manifold is divided into two banks with three cylinders fed by each bank. The powertrain control module (PCM) controls butterfly valves between each bank. At low engine speeds the valves are closed; each separate bank of the manifold is tuned to maximize the resonance effect of the incoming air and increase cylinder filling and the torque through the lower part of the engine's rpm range.

As the engine rpm rises, the resonance effect fades, and the butterfly valves connecting the two banks of the intake manifold open. Now the resonance from individual pressure pulsations is eliminated, and an inertia affect helps the mass of air rushing down each intake passage. This provides more charge than each cylinder would normally ingest, working like mild supercharging to enhance horsepower at high engine speeds. The manifold changeover rpm is set somewhat lower in the rpm range than is the VTEC changeover rpm. This works to smooth and broaden the torque delivery. More than 75 percent of the peak torque is available from 2100 rpm to 6500 rpm.

Does anyone know "resonance" would cause the vibration?


(actually, I don't believe 50-55 vibration is caused by this, IMHO, I think it's from the engine and tranny.)

LED Master

Thanks Rets, but that does not explain the vibration that is felt with it, I would not expect the whole drive train to vibrate such that it is felt in the car (steering wheel, etc vibrates).

It would explain if we ALL heard a sound.

It is a good idea, though.

Wildcat Jon

Took a ride with Cincy service mgr this morning about car pulling to the left. 4 wheel alignment didn't fix on Friday. Could be the tires? Car is in service today.

Anyway, he is also driving a new TL and said his flatspotting this morning was very bad (was 10 degrees here this morning - supposed to get down to 8 tonight). He said inherent in the tires - didn't hear that Acura would do anything about it. Seemed matter of fact that it was just what we'd all have to live with with these tires unless Acura does something. He acknowledged that my car was also flatspotting while we drove it and vibrating a tad but it did dissipate as we drove about 15 minutes.

need4spd

If you drive 60 minutes to work, the 10 minutes or so of flat spotting MAY be ok, but with only a 5 mile drive to work, it is not fun anymore!

The car shakes and vibrates the whole way!

I guess I should have stuck with a job that was 50 miles from home, stupid me.

Sorry, I don't buy it that we have to suffer because of thier choice, also friends are wondering what is wrong with my car when they ride in it and it flat spots, oh it is just the tires, it is normal, and they give you that deer in the head lights look like you are crazy.

This is not good for Acura's reputation.

2004tlinNY1

i have a meeting with the factory rep this week. i will try to get some definitive answers, but my guess is that the fix(es) if there is one is far off:

ACS did say that some changes have been made in later models (i have an antique circa 3600). i may ask for a newer build. think it will work

overall, my problems seem to be
thumping = torque converter /tranny issue
vibration = tires (pester them enough and might get new tires)

all the best

C5Racer

My TL was also pulling to the left. The front tires were switched, then the TL pulled to the right. I have a new tire on order and will post the results when it has been installed.

daveinmass

After a weekend trip to Maine and experiencing the vibration problem at highway speeds throughout the trip, I called ACS to get on record as having a problem.

The representative I spoke to acknowledged that they've received "several" phone calls regarding the vibration and they are working on a solution.

I was told the dealers know about the problem in response to my specific question.

Changing tires "minimizes" the problem, it does not eliminate it - again, that's what I was told.

He assured me I and all TL owners would be informed of a solution as soon as one is available.

I will take the car in to the dealer tomorrow for balancing - that will be the first time they've been worked on.

FYI, my wife drives a 2003 Accord Coupe, V6, with the Touranza's. She reported similar vibration this morning - cold here in New England.

5AT, VIN 14,XXX, 1,700 miles

Wildcat Jon

Oh, by the way, my left front tire had a "pull" to the left so they crossed the front tires and now it is clearly gone. They said it would have "worked itself out" anyway but the easy fix was to swap the front tires since alignment is spot on. Seems to have worked. Vin in 19XXX/5AT.

Wildcat Jon

FYI, Case manager at Acura Client Services called me today. Said they were now "aware" of the tire vibration problem and that Acura was working on a solution. Said he couldn't divulge any other details at this time but would be contacting me "when Acura had finalized the fix for the problem."