ndabunka

Post here about the differing options for width of tires on your TL. I notice the tire rack states that the 2004 TL can accept either 245/45/17's (standard) or the 265/40/17's. I have not yet seen anyone on here post that they have went with the larger sized tires. I assume since tire rack list them as options, they should also fit easily into the wheel well without rubbing. When posting please keep in mind that different tires have different sideways and some 265's may work while others may not so please make certain to include the make, model, and costs you experienced. Same thing goes for the 18" wheels. TR list 235/40/18 as well as 245/40/18 and also 255/40/18's as viable options. Are they really viaable choices? In most performance cars you want as large a patch as you can get to hold the tire to the pavement. With only 275HP, I don't really see a need for the wider 265's as I doubt if the additional width would really provide any adhesion advantage. In fact, the larger tire would also be heavier and therefore physics would dictate that the heavier tire may no0t perform as well if there's not enough power to make use of the additional contact. But, in my mind, it comes down to appearances. The wider witdhs would simple make the car look more "performance styled" and that may be enough for some to choose the bigger tires. Has anyone taken this route and how have your experiences been. PS - I am posting this in the TL section because I am ONLY interested in these issues on the new 2004 and if I posted in the wheels & tires section I am certain we would get a considerable amount of chatter on the effects of alternate tire sizes on the balance of the acura line (not what I'm shooting for). Thanks for your input. Trying to make a tire/wheel decision. The EL42's are DEFINITELY OUT so what to do next???

jyg tl 3

profile the lower car is to ground with more rubber meeting the road. As you do this the ride gets harsher and the more prone you are to get wheel and tire damage from road and garbage in road.
this is called plus sizing, believe it or not there is good explaination in this month's
Consumer Reports(of all places) . There are also physical limits caused by wheel well size. stress on bearings , and increase in steering forces required. Consider all of the above before you go too wide and too low. You can better handling on standard tire size just by going to better tires such
as Michelin Pilot Sports or Pilots Sport A/s
for people who have winter weather as a concern,. IF you must go in heavy snow. snow hadling becomes more important and you need snow tires on all four wheeels.

need4spd

Are you sure you are looking at the Tire Rack, or are you looking at Discount Tire. Tire Rack only shows the stock 235/45-17 and 235-40-18 sizes as fitting. Discount tire showed those other sizes also, but I do not trust them at all, I have seen and heard of too many screwed up fitments from Discount Tire.

brahtw8

I think you are confused. I haven't seen anybody posting anything above a 245 width tire on an O4, and I would be surprised if you could fit a 265. Maybe you can, but that is way too much tire for a TL. 245s are plenty wide.

need4spd

I checked, it is discount tire that says the 265's fit for 17 and 255 for 18 and 19"

Dumb, I wonder if they realy did fitments to check, or if it is solely based on overall diamters being within +/-5%

ndabunka

The ultimate result of this thread is to identify those "higher performance" and or alternate tire options for these cars. Specifically, who has gone with which tires, why they went with those particular tires and how they would evaluate them. Right now I am down to only a few select options myself (Yoko AVS Sport, AVS, ES100, Michelin Pilot Sport and PS A/S, Bridgestone S-03, RE750 or RE050's only). I've seen others post their satifaction with the LH-Z's as well as the Pirelli Nero's. I've never been happy with Pirellis on prior cars so won't be putting those on this one. The LH-Z's are almost the same price as the S-03's and the S-03 is one of the best performance tires for a number of performance cars (Benz ///AMG's, BMW M-series, etc). Not much snow around here so dual use isn't as important for me. My last car has worn the Pilot Sports (non-AS version) and while I liked the traction, the wear was terrible (about 15K miles before needing replacement). How's the wear on the S-03's? Tire rack reviews show the ES100's to suffer from quick wear as well in some cases. Is that what prior ES100 owners have expereinced in the prior model TL's (if it was an option). But the price on the ES100's is awfully attractive (even considering the faster burn rate). I like the look of the ES100's but wonder if the regular AVS Sports might not be quieter. I've seen other threads were a guy has already put 245's on his 04. Has anyone attempted the 255's? I know what the tire sites have to say about the tires and am taking that information in as well. Just wanted to see what long-term Acura guys can tell me about going larger. From some of these other early posts, it sounds like most stay pretty close to the factory standard. This type of stuff is what I'm seeking.

Reguilar search on 245 turned up some good threads of stuff I am trying to better understand with this thread(Guess I should have done the simple search instead of the complex one I tried before starting this thread).... Here's one...http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...&highlight=245
Another one providing the info I requested in this thread...http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...&highlight=245

samkws

245 on a front drive car is pretty wide, and it's not gd for fuel econ and road noise...as well as acceleration...wider tires are slower becoz of more contact to the ground

the best way to find the size is not too wide, not too narrow, just suits ur personal favourite...depends on u want more comfort or more precise on cornering

lakeman

I have been searching the A-TL threads for tire info as well. One A-TL member has put Bridgestone RE 750's on his TL in the 245/45/17 size. He claims it has greatly improved his handling and reduced the overboosted feel of the steering. I checked on the tire rack and both the 235 and the 245 widths were tested on 8" rims and the section width of the 235's was 9.4" and the section on the 245's was 9.6" This is a very small change and should not cause any problems. A slight error in the speedometer would be expected.
IMHO wider tread could reduce fuel mileage, but the tire tread pattern will have more to do with the noise than a small change in width. I agree that much wider fitments will have these issues, but often a change to a tire one-size-up is better than stock.
Just my 2 cents.

need4spd

I agree, the 245's are not a huge difference, only 10mm (235mm vs 245mm) now if you are talking 235's vs 265, thats over an inch (measured from rim bead to rim bead across the tire)

there are many good tires out there in the 235 and 245 sizes, unfortunately 245's are not as common on cars, so there is a disproportionate price hike for them.

Bartman_RENAMED

For anyone looking into the Acura 18" rims, the Yoko ES100 235's that come with them do not protect the rim at all. Does anyone know if that problem would be fixed by a 245?

brahtw8

I don't think so. The problem is likely not the tire design but the rim design. The ES100 has a rim protector bar that sticks out farther than many tires. As I indicated before, I don't believe the wider tire is going to stick out any farther, since they are all mounted to be flush with the edge of the rim. Any extra tire is relative to the inside lip of the rim, AFAIK.

erikmoeser

I hate to say this, but I believe the "contact patch" of any size tire you put on will be the same, in square inches. It is a matter of tire pressure # per square inch. If the car weighs 3600 # and lets say even on all wheels (which it is far from) that means 900 # per tire. If you are running 30# per square inch you will have 30 square inches of "rubber on the road". The only way to increase the amount of rubber on the road is to decrease the tire pressure! So amount of rubber on the road is not the end all be all.

With the low profile wider tires you get a contact patch that is wider and shorter...probably good for lateral acceleration (cornering)...and high profile narrower rubber yields a narrow longer patch, probably good for braking and acceleration. Winter tires are often recommended in a narrower size for this reason, I think. Dragsters don't have low profile, but the tires are very wide and use very low pressure.

This has all been gone over in R&T and other magazines. For most of us on the street, those still not in jail, tire size/profile is mostly a matter of what looks good, and less of a factor in actual measurable performance.

Having said that, I did go with the HPT option and they do feel better than the Turanzas, and I will always err on the side of spending more $$ for the wider/low profile/"high performance" tires!

0210322

Little off topic but related... I always put wider tires on my 91 Integra GS. Stock was 195/60/14 but I have gone up to 215/60/14 ok. The wider tires definetly improved cornering and performance. I finally settled on 205/60/14 sticky Yokos and feels and looks great. When I get my TL and tires still suck I'll put 245s on....just my 2 cents.

rkilian

I can only relate my own personal experience with this issue.
First of all, I changed out the Turanzas for multiple reasons and I went to the Potenza 750s.
Once I decided to change, I looked at having just a little more rubber between the edge of the rim and the tire. I hate when the rim is wider than the tire. Therefore 245/45/17 made good sence.
The Potenza is a much stiffer tire that the Turanza so the car feels significantly more sportier and responsive. I also think due to this change, the steering feels "more resitive to change" and with better feel on corners and high speeds. Would these features have been the same on the 235? I don't know. I think that with the 265 you will probably get significant rubbing issues. Mine had a minor rub with 4 (big guys) in the car and going through a dip in the freeway at about 75 MPH.
Would I recommend the 245, definately. The reason is simple RIM Protection if nothing else.

danno

What`s the tire patch with the stock Turenzas and the ES 100s?

samkws

it won't make a differece on the sppedometer, since it has the same diameter on the wheel...same 45/17...

but honestly...245 set up on a FWD car is ridiculously wide and most FWD cars on the market are using 195-225 at most

i was kinda surprised when i saw the new TL's is using 235 width!! since the old TL and type S were using 205 and 215 setup respectively

the stock tires on TL is quiet, the summer tires on 6spd is harsh and noisy....so that's the set back for high performance tires~

samkws

if u want some protection on the rim, get set of 15in then~ =P

scelipt

Hey all, picked up my my 04 TL silver,ebony,5AT,Navi on monday the 15th. I upon LEAVING THE LOT noticed the vibration. I have the 18's on my car but not with Yokos. I have a good relationship with my dealer service guy. Christmas gifts the whole 9 yards, he put the other of from what I understand are "tested tires" for the car. Conti Extreme Contacts are on my car. Went this morning Mike took it and every tire was off, 1 badly. However, problem is MUCH better 40 to 55 even to 65. As as I hit 70 I got a great massage :-). Called mike just now. he stated what Ive been reading IT IS A PROBLEM doesn't matter what size tire. He is concerned it may be something else, only time will tell. This is my second Acura and like it or not I went back for the great service the dealer provides. Also the car kicks mother f****** a**. I love it and I am sure the problem will be worked out. I already lodged my complaint with the Acura G-ds, but if anything other than this comes out I will let you guys know right away. Also my tire are 245/40/18

scelipt

ndabunka

Thanks to all of you contributors (I owe you all a drink sometime). Here's were I've gotten to so far... From the posts, we know that 245/45/17's work just fine and fit well within the wheel wells of a 1" lowered '04 TL. Pretty safe bet for a cheap upgrade. The Yoko ES100's are also a pretty good bargain at that size of only 116/tire (tire rack website). But the 18-inch upgrade for $1100 off an authorized eBay dealer is simply too good to pass up. Moving up to the 18's some on here have gone as large as the 245/40/18's (over the std 234/40/18's). Give a good wider patch and a little more agressive look but of course, the individual tire prices also increase by about $50/wheel at that size so it's not a cheap upgrade. The 245/40/18's will have a diameter of ~25.7 and a width of 9.7. We KNOW this works because guys on here have posted GOOD fit. I've also spoken to one guy who threw a set of 19's. He's a acura dealer and stayed pretty conventional with 245/35/19's. I think 19's are unrealistic due to price so my question is...Will the slightly larger 255/35/18's fit well on the new TL? Diameter is 25.0 so they are actually smaller in diameter. But the width does increase dramatically (from 9.7 to 10.2). My question is... Is there enough room inside this wheel well to accomodate the 255's? remember that these are also 35's so the diamter is NOT an issue, only width is the concern. Since these tires are significantly harder to find, the costs are nearing $300/tire for the high performance versions I would be using at this size. One other component to this is the load ratings for these tires. Spec is a 93W and all the 18's I'm considering match or exceed that rating. However, the 255's drop down to a 90W. Is the load REALLY a factor? In the past I've gone to the wider wheel to keep the tires from breaking loose. That's obviously not going to be the case here (Unless they release a super charger for the TL in the next few years). It's cosmetics only. Not certain that the cosmetics of the wider 255 would be worth the costs even if they can fit. Anyone tried 255/35/18's yet?

samkws

255 on a FWD car??? -_-"

ndabunka

I take it you don't like a "sporty/performance" look? Sure, Acura could have put 225's on the thing like most other FWD cars but they are trying to provide the market a product that can look and (in many ways) FEEL like a true performance car. For the life of me I can't understand why you WOULDN'T want a more stable (255-ish) footprint if you could have it. It would simply make the car stick better in corners, right? So, why not?

KJSmitty

OK guys,
Lets clear something up... Anytime you increase the "tread width" or "section width" of a tire yet keep your "rim width" the same, the tire sidewall will protrude farther away from the rim. True, the "rim protector" isn't any bigger but the arched curve of the sidewall away from the rim will be greater, thus better protection for the rim - sidewall will make contact with a curb prior to your rim..

Now, like the specs on TireRack, you must use a tire designed for your rim width. You cant just mount a 12 inch wide tread on a 6 inch wide rim. The rims on the TL are 8 inch. The tires 234/45 have a section width of only 9.3 with an 8 inch rim. You also have to remember that the 8 inch spec is the rim "bead" width, not overall width. If you were to measure the outside edge (where you hit curbs..)to inside edge of the TL rims they would most likely be around 9.5 inches wide. So, if the maximum width of the sidewalls ie "section width" is only 9.3 yet the total rim width is ~9.5, the tire sidewall wont remotely stick out away from the rim to protect it. Big picture is Acura should have made the rims 17 x 7 vs 17 x 8 with plans to use the 235/45-17 size tire. Visually you can see this sidewall/rim relationship on the TL, and thats why they are so prone to "rim rash".

That being said, like a previous post of mine, I (if factory tires present problems...) plan to seriously check into a 255/45-17 tire (atleast a 245/45). With an 8-8.5 inch rim it has a 10.1 section width. This would mean the rubber would stick out almost a 1/2 inch beyond the TL rims. The down size is the tire is 1/2 inches taller thus would turn slower causing your speedo to read slower than you actually are... On the performance side, I don't think one would notice it acceleration wise. Better grip - you bet, more noise - possibly, gas use - probably unaffected, would it fit in the wheel well - that is always a question until tried, but most likely...

The specs mentioned were taken from Michelin and may be different per brand of tire. Other brands may offer a size variant that gives you the greater section width yet keeps you closer to the BS 235/45-17's overall diameter. More research needed to find the perfect combo.

Just my 2 cents guys.

ndabunka

Thanks for the attempt but I think rkilian's experience with his 245/45/17's has demonstrated that the 17-inch 255's will not work. But the 18" 255 may well fit. No need to experiement with the 17-inch 255's as his 17-inch 245's rubbed once at high speeds with a full car load. His is lowered an inch but the 17-inch 255's would also require a wider rim than the 17's are capable of supporting. My question is in regards to the 18-inchers only, specifically the 255/35/18's. Notice that these are smaller and in conformance with the Plus 1 specs. PS - the 17-inch rims are 8-innch width. The 18-inch ones are 8.5. 255 will go onto the 8.5's but not the 8.0's (without looking funny and becoming unstable).

KJSmitty

Actually, 255/45-17 specifications call for a rim between 8 and 9.5 inches wide. Placing a tire on a rim in the lower range of the specification results in more "bulge" of the sidewall but still fine for the application. It would be great to have just one tire(try different specs) mounted to experiment with... I'm sure my local tire shop will allow this as long as they know I am purchasing a set of 4 after making a disicion...
Crap, I haven't even got the TL yet and I'm shopping for tires....:wow:

Chplummer

ndabunka, I have the Potenza S-03s on my 6MT and love them! I can't imagine going back to the Turanzas. I have 235/45/17s and have had a huge improvement in handling as wells as braking. If I were you and snow is not a factor I would go with the S-03s. The look of the tire is very nice on this car, it really drives the performance look to a new level. It says "I'm not playin' around" and gives a BMW "M" or Merc "AMG" look to the car. I hope to get some pictures in my photo gallery soon.

samkws

it would be about half a sec slower from 0-60 if u get teh 255s

that's the set down of the wider tires

ndabunka

In the instance of one tire I am considering (Toyo Proxes T-1S) is the EXACT same weight as the 17 inch 235/45/17 standard tires. Standard is 23.8lbs. The 255/35/18's are 23.8 as well. SAME EXACT WEIGHT = NO DIFFERENCE in speed. WHy would you think they would be slower? In fact, they may well actually be faster. Here's why...Diameter on the std issue is 25.4 whereas diameter on the 255/35/18's is 25.0 so essentially the larger wheels have a smaller diameter by .4 so in effect, the impact surface (i.e. tread) is closer to the center of the wheel on the 18's than it would be on the 17's. By being closer, you get more torque athe the contact point/road.

samkws

the law of physics doesn't say so...

u do have ur pt, but how come more contact will be faster?

it is not the matter of the weight of the tires, it's the matter of how much rubber are sticking on teh ground, which has more road contact

for example...a bicycle with thinner tires goes faster, a wider tire would takes a lot more energy to move at the same spd, becoz there are a lot more rubber contact to the ground~

same theory as the cars...u will eventually give up some fuel economy and acceleration, not to mention the tire noise...

samkws

i have read an article in C&D long ago and they brought a 540i for test with 4 different sets of wheels

a set of 16', 17', 18', 19' wheels each were going for testing on the same car

and guess what happened?

the 16' and 17' were the best in performance, while the 18' and 19' were too slow...especially the 19' and had a bad braking distance...

so larger wheel/tires are not always gd~

erikmoeser

samkws what you are really saying is that a 0.4 smaller diameter tire effectively lowers the engine/tire rpm ratio which means lower over all gearing. Everybody knows that a lower gear gives more g force...the 0.4 inch reduction would be like a 1.5% higher numerical final drive ratio. A slight but measurable advantage. Put another way it would be like a few extra #/ft of torque. If you are not spinning or nearly spinning the tires, amount of rubber touching the road is not really a factor in acceleration.

samkws

well...if u don't believe so, then just forget it~

it's a fact and it's part of the physics...or u wouldn't able to understand until u got the taste of it

if there are no downside for the wider tires, y would everybody not going for the wider tires?? u figure it out~

brahtw8

Two issues here.

One is contact patch, which does change with tire width, and the related rolling resistance, which also changes with tire width and does have an impact on acceleration. Of course, there are many factors involved, as you need more rubber when you increase the power to the wheels or the power will overcome the grip of the tires, but at some point you stop improving things and actually make them worse.

The other is overall diameter, which I think everybody is clear on.

erikmoeser

Yes, difference in acel because of rolling resistance change but that is minor unless you are talking an extreme change in tire. Yes you need traction so that the power to the wheels does not break traction...but if both samples can contain the power then a different shaped contact patch will not affect accel very much at all.

There are certainly downsides for wider lower profile tires...directional stability (tracking and bump steer issues), ride, rim protection, more difficult to align, tire wear problems that aren't as prominent in a "normal" tire. These are all trade offs to what for most drivers is looks, not performance. Maybe not the folks on this board, but plenty of people don't go anywhere near 10/10ths in cornering, even those on 40 series tires. Still the cornering "feel" is a plus for properly chosen tires.

ndabunka

Contact patch matters ONLY if the power of the engine exceeds the adhesion of the patch. A smaller patch on a tire that offers more adhesion WOULD offer better performance. In this case, the adhesion is not an issue (c'mon guys it's ONLY 270HP we are talking about here). However, the weight of the tire/wheel combo can make all the difference in the world. If the both tire/wheel combos have the EXACT same circumference but are one is heavily than the other, the the lighter weight combo will be the fastest. PERIOD. Weight of the wheels plays a HUGE part in determining the performance capabilities of the combos. The heavier ones will resist inertia. Heaviler wheels means that the capacity to change direcitons is diminished. In 100% of all cases, lighter = better. A tire can be wider (with a bibber patch) and be lighter than the same "taller/skinner" tire.

ndabunka

samkws - There are the obvious downside to the wider tires...#1 MORE EXPENSIVE, #2. More prone to damage on our typicla streets (and therefore also more expensive because you may now have to replace them). Guess we don't need #3 because by now it's obviously a finiancialy driven decision.