Dino81

interesting thread, I was always taught that a broken timing belt on an interference motor= needs new motor. keep us updated OP.

Eric Perry

Def. a belt.

leedogg

Perhaps you have a TSX

Eric Perry

Or an Infiniti.

whudini3000

iTrader: (1)

200k miles, is the best news ive heard in a while

CLtotheTL32

iTrader: (3)

Meh. I would rather get it done at 105k to save myself a new engine if I choose to wait longer.

I hate cars

It usually means new valves. Most of the time basically head reconditioning with new valves, seats, guides, and seals.

The pistons win the fight with the valves 99.9% of the time so it's just the top end that you have to worry about. Bottom end should be fine.

If he was cruising down the freeway at 2,000rpm and it took the engine 2 seconds to stop once the belt failed, the pistons smacked the valves 66 times in that time period. That's why I say don't get your hopes up that everything will be ok.

Majofo

Any bets on a failed retainer in the near future?

HondaFan81

^ Sounds like you're familiar with this topic.

I come from 90-93 Accord (F22 series engines), know them very well and they are interference. So many of them with higher mileage, it is a common topic with those that do not maintain. As you mentioned, typically involves cylinder head reconditioning and timing belt service to fix, some Honda techs are known to get cars from owners refusing to take on the expense, repair and sell them. Also, atleast on F-series, the water pumps could last 200K miles based on many of them I have removed, but I typically replace very 100K miles as it is recommended.

My brother's 90 Accord EX 5MT (F22a4) at 368K miles, I had to get head reconditioned in a repair and noticed one exhaust valve with slight bend, valve guide fractured. Car seem to idle OK and never had running issues. I think this occurred when Honda dealer at 200K timing belt service had belt off some teeth on cam gear, don't remember how many. I do remember having to reset it properly after diagnosing, car would accelerate to 5000 RPM no problem, but crawl from 5000-5500 RPM which is not normal. Lost top end, indication of cam retardation, redline begins at 6300 RPM on these engines.

J-series are interference it appears based on comments here, definitely have timing belt. As mentioned, definitely nice to know such a safety factor exists with our timing belt.

K-series are those with timing chains. My wife has an 03 Element with K24 it has 157K miles and is fine, mostly HWY driving.

usaf2008

Talked to him again today, still no problems. He has some pretty big balls though. He's been testing out the engine by flooring it and driving it hard as he can. He said if they're going to be problems he wants them now, but nothing he has done makes it run bad. He said it runs as smooth as a brand new TL and looks 10x better lol.

jda123

Can you get the VIN and other specs and post it on here so that none of us buy his car?

I hate cars

Hopefully it works out well for him. Just don't be surprised if a CEL comes on for random misfires. At least you'll know which direction to go.

I like his logic though. I've done the same thing, beating the hell out of a car to see if it's going to fail.

Eric Perry

I think I'd be amazed if blow-by on some of the (probably) bent exhaust valves doesn't create hot spots, burned valves, and all the associated problems. Amazed.

AMUA6

iTrader: (7)

This.

Definitely keep this thread updated OP.

usaf2008

I spoke to him today. He said after getting gas he entered the freeway and floored it this morning until he reached around 115 miles an hour and no problems. The mechanic said he couldn't guarantee there was nothing wrong with it without opening up the engine which is useless if the car is running fine. He said he's keeping the car until the engine blows then buying a 2011 or 2012 Infiniti M...basically whatever model year his Acura blows the engine. So right now he doesn't care that he's on borrowed time because he said he's saving more for the down payment of the Infiniti.

Dino81

Thanks! That helps me understand it a little better.

Opel

It's a timing belt, not a chain!

I've taken it off more than I cared too.

OP... your cousin got some luck there, the car is an Auto, it immediately shut off after belt snapped.. ...had it been a manual, motor would've kept spinning way longer, until he would've disengaged the clutch.

As much as I hate to say it...over time, he will start experiencing some problems with the heads. Those valves do not like to be touched!

usaf2008

sucks to be him I guess lol But he doesn't seem to care. He's patiently waiting on it's impending death to get the Infiniti.

WyldRice

I was freaking out about having 120,000+ on this belt- now i have YEARS to prepare for doing it... Hell, I could even go to a Tech College and learn how to do it-before I even need to do it!

LOL
Any update on this car? I bet he still drives it- no problems! Gotta Love Honda's!

Majofo

MyTL09

iTrader: (4)

Well the real question is how far u think u can push it over 105k to keep it from snapping, I mean I know it's not recommended and people probably do it anyway but I know over 150k is still pushing it. How about 105-130k max I know it might not be safe but would a timing belt snap at 130k I know anythings possible but just saying.

HighRevving

A splash of Italian tuning is always good..
BTW, Can you ask him if he is planning the 2nd belt swap at 311 or 412k miles..

WyldRice

(Ronald Reagan voice) Well. Trust but verify!
I looked at a few other threads, and on other forums... Guys going 140-180K before realizing they need it done! But no other failure threads (nobody else willing to go over 200K to see what it can do!)

Shoot2Thrill

Age counts too, so the belt is 7 to 8 years old. So it is a data point but that is about it. The engine has 200K essentially how well it runs after this point may or may not have anything to do with the timing belt failure.

csmeance

The OP said that the driver was a salesmen and drove quite a bit. I'm assuming it's quite a bit of highway driving and that is FAR from intensive on a motor. Driving in city traffic is HORRIBLE for the motor vs. driving on the highway. Much more wear and tear so it's somewhat understandable that the car went to almost 200K before it snapped. Either way, waiting till it snaps is a bad idea and the more you've pushed the car in the past, the shorter the lifespan of the belt.

In all honesty, if I had 130K on my TL and knew the belt should have been changed at 105K and it hadn't, I wouldn't be sleeping soundly at night...

I hate cars

Agreed. The engine turns roughly 325% more revolutions per mile in stop and go traffic and this is not counting idle time when the car is stopped. I figured it based on the 5at gearing in 2nd vs 5th and an overall tire diameter of 25" which is what my 255/40/17s are. This does not take into account torque converter slip which would make it even worse for stop and go since the converter is normally locked on the freeway. I figured it out for second gear since this is probably the gear it's in the most in stop and go.

I got 5710 revs per mile in 2nd and 1766 revs per mile in 5th. Around town, you're usually deeper in the throttle and spinning more rpms on average plus underhood temps are higher both of which shorten belt life. If the TL was driven purely highway miles I would have no issues taking it to 200K in just a few years. In theory you could drive it over 300,000 miles of pure freeway driving to get the same total engine revolutions as pure city driving and as long as you don't exceed the time limit, it should hang in there......in theory, I could not bring myself to try it.

yn1scott

I made it to 144,000 and some change. Not because I chose to, but one thing lead to another and before you know it I was over 144,000. From the time I made it 100,000 the dealers told me it was time. Luckily, about a month ago I went to a Honda dealer in NJ and got the timing belt job done for about 460.00!

ez12a

Can anyone link me a documented thread of a destroyed engine from a broken timing belt?

I'm just curious, the same thing happened to my dad years ago while driving my integra on the streets. Shop threw a new belt in and it fired up with no issues. Donated that car to a friend when I picked up my TL in feb.

I've tried looking for threads in the integra forum i visit, and it's pretty much rare to find a damaged engine as a result. Rare as in I havent found a thread yet. Has it happened? Maybe, but I havent found a thread.

I hate cars

I've seen two damaged engines from the timing belt breaking I believe. Its definitely an interference engine. If it wasn't I would push mine off to 150K.

ez12a

oh yea, definitely not doubting it's an interference design, but rather doubting the "OMG BROKEN BELT = DEAD ENGINE" alarmist position some people take to it. I would venture to say more times than not, your engine will be fine.

A quick google showed a CL on acurazine that suffered damage via the belt. That was it. And it didnt snap, it "melted" which probably threw off the timing while still engaging the valvetrain.

I hate cars

It's like I said earlier, the valves will hit the pistons 66 times for each valve in 2 seconds at 2,000rpm. Whether or not the damage is severe enough that it loses compression from severely bent valves or it bends them enough to cause problems later on, the damage will be done. I've never had a J apart so I don't know how deep the contact will be. I guess what i'm getting at is if one J32 died from a broken timing belt, all of them will whether it's a slow death or a long one. I've done something similar to my other car and it seemed ok at first besides a rough idle but that later turned into a random misfire and eventually a dead miss.

Legend2TL

There's quite a few on the internet just Google. I've heard of a handful of folks who broke timing belts in inference engines that had major damage (bent or broken values, dented pistons). If you're at highway speed and the valves are in the worst phase it's really bad.

I helped a colleage tear down his 1G Integra when the belt broke on the highway. The engine was ruined (broken valve head played pinball in the combustion chamber). My boss had a Audi 5000 diesel that broke a timing belt (also on the highway) and that broke the cam into three pieces! The valvetrain is cam over bucket/valve.

It all depends on playing roulette with the cam phase, the amount of cam lift as to whether you will get damage. So I supose it's possible to not have damage, but of the handful of folks I know, they all had damage.

Legend2TL

You sure it's not 326%

I agree city driving will undoubtly put more revs on the motor and even for another reason. When stopped, you are nor traveling but the engine is still turning so that also adds up. So alot fo bad traffic will add to TB wear.

As you menetioned TB get affected by heat, but also dust and oil can do alot of harm. The dust/sandy environment will wear down the teeth. A leaking cam or crank seal will cause the belt to deteriorate.

Time is another factor, my dad does not drive his 2000 Accord much and his mileage is low (40K) but the belt is 11 years old now. So probably this year or next I will change it. I thought for the J motors Honda' replacement for normal service was 105K miles or 7 years. A friend has a 88 Ferrar 328GTS, he recently changed the original belt because although his mileage was low (30K) he didn't want to risk a 20 year belt breaking.

Of all the timing belts I've seen break they simply snapped, I've seen pictures of teeth breaking off. I've replaced ~25 TB's in my life and looking forward to the day when that is over. My brother has a 2007 Civic which has no belt but I have two J-series with belts. Fortunately they are 105K miles these days.

I hate cars

Ironically, the MID popped up with my timing belt service over the weekend. Car has 100,400 miles roughly. Seems a little early especially with all of the freeway miles but it's been in Bakersfield, Vegas, and Phoenix all of it's life so many 110+ degree days. Then there's the track days too.

Majofo

That's unusual. Typically it shows up > 105k. Mine popped up around 107k.

nfnsquared

It seems to come up with whatever oil change cycle is nearest 105K. Might be a little before or a little after. His oil change cycles (as determined by the MID) are probably pretty high (ie 8K-10K miles). His oil change life is probably now at 15%-20%, which means another 1500-2000 miles before it reaches 0%. If it waited until the next oil change, he would be at about 112K-114K, so it pops it up now.

Mine came before 105K.

Majofo

Interesting notion. I'm sure the full metrics of the calculation are out there somewhere.

I hate cars

I don't go by the MID for oil changes but it did just go <20%. That may have something to do with it. I've got all of the parts sitting here, just got to find the time. So far I have never taken the car to a shop or the dealer without having some kind of major problem or I would just pay someone to do it so I don't have to waste a weekend. As long as I don't take it out of town, I only put about 15 miles a week on the TL. I could probably stretch it out to my next 5 days off in about a month.

TL6SPD

I have an 04 with 129k. My buddy that's a Master Tech at Lexus did my belt/Pump/Tensioner and Sepernetine in 3 hours yesterday. The belt looks almost perfect. Water pump looked great, tensioner had a little oil. He was very surprised how good the parts looked.

I hate cars

That's the problem, most of those parts look great right up until they break.