Thinking of getting 05 TL 6 Spd
12-02-2010, 11:02 AM
#1
Skillionare
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Thinking of getting 05 TL 6 Spd
How have your guy's/gal's experience been with 6Spd TL's for 2004 - 2005? Looking at one for $15k with under 90,000 miles on it. How are the transmissions on these? Are the manuals better than the transmissions from the second generation CL/TL? Any common issues that any of you have run into? Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks All!
Last edited by Acutron; 12-02-2010 at 11:07 AM.
12-02-2010, 12:08 PM
#2
Registered Member
I have two 3G TL's: an '04 manual and an '05 automatic (the wife's). My '04 has had no clutch or transmission problems whatsoever. Nothing. I purchased my '04 on July 17, 2004, two days after it had arrived in the store's inventory; it still had the protective plastic on the hood and deck and the seats. It was built during the first week of July. I currently have over 80,100 miles on it.
The clutch action on these cars is not what some folks are accustomed to in that the pedal has a relatively short travel and an even shorter take-up. Initial engagement tends to occur just off the stop pad, within the first two inches of travel and can be somewhat abrupt because clamping pressure is delivered quickly. This can lead to jerking and bucking for those who are not used to a clutch action like this. But anything can be learned.
The manual is what was intended to be in these cars.. at least the early builds because that is what Acura was pushing in their sales brochures. Since I have both, I can very easily make comparisons and draw conclusions.
The clutch action on these cars is not what some folks are accustomed to in that the pedal has a relatively short travel and an even shorter take-up. Initial engagement tends to occur just off the stop pad, within the first two inches of travel and can be somewhat abrupt because clamping pressure is delivered quickly. This can lead to jerking and bucking for those who are not used to a clutch action like this. But anything can be learned.
The manual is what was intended to be in these cars.. at least the early builds because that is what Acura was pushing in their sales brochures. Since I have both, I can very easily make comparisons and draw conclusions.
12-02-2010, 12:13 PM
#3
The clutch action on these cars is not what some folks are accustomed to in that the pedal has a relatively short travel and an even shorter take-up. Initial engagement tends to occur just off the stop pad, within the first two inches of travel and can be somewhat abrupt because clamping pressure is delivered quickly. This can lead to jerking and bucking for those who are not used to a clutch action like this. But anything can be learned.
i hated my car for the first 3 months. I couldnt learn the engagement point!!!!!!!
12-02-2010, 03:15 PM
#7
hahaha you too?! It took me a few months to get use to it, then I did the check valve mod. Another 3 months to relearn it. Out of all the sports cars I've ever owned the TL has the most ridiculous over the top aggresive pedal feel. I'd say its on par with an Evo, just about half the travel.
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12-02-2010, 05:31 PM
#8
The DVD-A Script Guy
To the OP - The 6MT has been great. As others mentioned some of the cars work better with the GM syncronomesh friction modified MTF. Mine's one of them. Once I switched over to that it was awesome ever since. If you can't/won't be willing to run an alternate MTF then you may not want to go with a 6MT. Many are the posters here who have unwaveringly stood on principle, or argued with their dealers about a notchy third gear, rather than try a non-OE MTF. They invariably end up unhappy and flame the debate.
Obviously AT vs. MT is a personal choice. I've always enjoyed MTs so it was an easy choice.
12-02-2010, 10:59 PM
#11
Banned
I dont know if the tl was like this but my cls6 would spin on 2nd gear shift and chirp third when the clutch was new. It was great. I had to get used to the drive-by-wire and rev hangs. I think theyve since fixed this prob after the civic SI/RSX did this pretty bad.
12-03-2010, 05:23 AM
#13
I had mines for 5 years and everything runs and works great. By the way what is the valve mod? Is that changing the GM fluid? Because I never did that. Would recommend if your into manuals.
12-03-2010, 06:56 AM
#14
Registered Member
Funny. The check valve effect drove me nuts until I got used to it. Loved the car from the beginning though. Thought about doing the mod but then never did.
To the OP - The 6MT has been great. As others mentioned some of the cars work better with the GM syncronomesh friction modified MTF. Mine's one of them. Once I switched over to that it was awesome ever since. If you can't/won't be willing to run an alternate MTF then you may not want to go with a 6MT. Many are the posters here who have unwaveringly stood on principle, or argued with their dealers about a notchy third gear, rather than try a non-OE MTF. They invariably end up unhappy and flame the debate.
Obviously AT vs. MT is a personal choice. I've always enjoyed MTs so it was an easy choice.
To the OP - The 6MT has been great. As others mentioned some of the cars work better with the GM syncronomesh friction modified MTF. Mine's one of them. Once I switched over to that it was awesome ever since. If you can't/won't be willing to run an alternate MTF then you may not want to go with a 6MT. Many are the posters here who have unwaveringly stood on principle, or argued with their dealers about a notchy third gear, rather than try a non-OE MTF. They invariably end up unhappy and flame the debate.
Obviously AT vs. MT is a personal choice. I've always enjoyed MTs so it was an easy choice.
Last night, I had a dream that I took my '04 TL to a detailing shop because I was going to sell it in a private sale in order to get a new 2011 Mustang GT. I vividly remember working out the details after I picked up my TL and that's when I woke up this morning. Strange.
12-03-2010, 07:11 AM
#15
Registered Member
Well the dealer's inventory of manuals decreased over that year to 15% of his inventory of '05 TL's. But the market, being what it is as in supply and demand, means that manuals are now difficult to find and can demand higher prices than the automatics, a fact I believe some of the naysayers may have overlooked.
Whoever winds up with my '04 TL, when the time comes, is going to get a car that has been garage kept and even parked under cover when I was working. It has never seen snow, has no scratches, dents, or other marks, save for a buffed mark on the rear bumper. No fading of the interior and no tearing of the seats. Everything works and works very well. Stock clutch and at 80,100 miles I figure it's good for another 150,000 miles. No warping of the rotors and in general, pristine in appearance, both inside and out. It has never had an alignment because.... well, it has never needed one. It has been checked several times and found to be dead on and in no need of an alignment.
I don't trash my cars because I want to keep them operating as well as possible for my own satisfaction. The side benefit is whomever gets the car after me enjoys a rather rare used car.
12-03-2010, 07:12 AM
#16
Registered Member
I dont know if the tl was like this but my cls6 would spin on 2nd gear shift and chirp third when the clutch was new. It was great. I had to get used to the drive-by-wire and rev hangs. I think theyve since fixed this prob after the civic SI/RSX did this pretty bad.
12-03-2010, 07:18 AM
#17
Registered Member
The General Motors Synchromesh Friction Modified Fluid (part #12377916) is of a much higher quality than the Honda fluid and does an excellent job of minimizing transmission component wear and alleviating existing problems.
12-03-2010, 12:28 PM
#19
Registered Member
When the valve is removed, I am told there is a much direct feel between the clutch action and the movement of the car. The upside is you eliminate the delayed engagement when shifting fast. This means less slippage. The downside is you can jeopardize your drive train more when driving aggressively. The car is no faster either way. However, it is quite possible one could lower their E.T.'s by removing the valve. Under normal driving conditions with the valve in place, you should never experience any problems... providing it doesn't fail.
12-03-2010, 09:51 PM
#20
As with any manual car, the clutch engagement point is easily adjusted at the pedal. Loosen one lock nut and give the push-rod a turn in the desired direction. Test drive and readjust until the desired grab is attained. I had to do this on mine since I drive 4 different Hondas with manual transmissions. I like to make them all feel as similar as possible.
As for the car, I highly recommend one. I got my 05 6MT w/ 20k miles back in 07 for $24 (private party). Honestly I couldn't be happier. The Brembo's where squealing, and the 3rd gear would occasionally pop out, but the dealer took care of both while providing me with a loaner. Of course an 05 is probably going to be out of warranty now, so these are definitely things to ask the previous owner about. Still worth it though. Especially at the reduces prices of today. The only trick is going to be finding one.
Only other trouble I've had with it was this past Monday. First sub-freezing startup of the year here in Vegas, and it seemed that a power-steering o-ring had gone bad. After a little searching on this forum, I found the fix was easy. 75 cents, and 10 minutes later the car was good as new again.
As for the car, I highly recommend one. I got my 05 6MT w/ 20k miles back in 07 for $24 (private party). Honestly I couldn't be happier. The Brembo's where squealing, and the 3rd gear would occasionally pop out, but the dealer took care of both while providing me with a loaner. Of course an 05 is probably going to be out of warranty now, so these are definitely things to ask the previous owner about. Still worth it though. Especially at the reduces prices of today. The only trick is going to be finding one.
Only other trouble I've had with it was this past Monday. First sub-freezing startup of the year here in Vegas, and it seemed that a power-steering o-ring had gone bad. After a little searching on this forum, I found the fix was easy. 75 cents, and 10 minutes later the car was good as new again.
12-04-2010, 06:14 AM
#21
Registered Member
As with any manual car, the clutch engagement point is easily adjusted at the pedal. Loosen one lock nut and give the push-rod a turn in the desired direction. Test drive and readjust until the desired grab is attained. I had to do this on mine since I drive 4 different Hondas with manual transmissions. I like to make them all feel as similar as possible.
As for the car, I highly recommend one. I got my 05 6MT w/ 20k miles back in 07 for $24 (private party). Honestly I couldn't be happier. The Brembo's where squealing, and the 3rd gear would occasionally pop out, but the dealer took care of both while providing me with a loaner. Of course an 05 is probably going to be out of warranty now, so these are definitely things to ask the previous owner about. Still worth it though. Especially at the reduces prices of today. The only trick is going to be finding one.
Only other trouble I've had with it was this past Monday. First sub-freezing startup of the year here in Vegas, and it seemed that a power-steering o-ring had gone bad. After a little searching on this forum, I found the fix was easy. 75 cents, and 10 minutes later the car was good as new again.
As for the car, I highly recommend one. I got my 05 6MT w/ 20k miles back in 07 for $24 (private party). Honestly I couldn't be happier. The Brembo's where squealing, and the 3rd gear would occasionally pop out, but the dealer took care of both while providing me with a loaner. Of course an 05 is probably going to be out of warranty now, so these are definitely things to ask the previous owner about. Still worth it though. Especially at the reduces prices of today. The only trick is going to be finding one.
Only other trouble I've had with it was this past Monday. First sub-freezing startup of the year here in Vegas, and it seemed that a power-steering o-ring had gone bad. After a little searching on this forum, I found the fix was easy. 75 cents, and 10 minutes later the car was good as new again.
12-04-2010, 11:17 AM
#23
Sheesh, I need post-counts......
In the spirit of upping my mandatory postcount:
I will take delivery of an '05 TL 6MT {tying to learn terminology} in about a week or two. Going to be a long wait for me!!
I've enjoyed and appreciated the info above. Some of it made me nervous, some really validated my decision to purchase this make/model.
I won't clog your thread but look forward to watching your progress with your '05 as it will closely mirror my own. {if you make the purchase}
Really like the forum and have been searching my arse off. {I know the drill} :wink:
I will take delivery of an '05 TL 6MT {tying to learn terminology} in about a week or two. Going to be a long wait for me!!
I've enjoyed and appreciated the info above. Some of it made me nervous, some really validated my decision to purchase this make/model.
I won't clog your thread but look forward to watching your progress with your '05 as it will closely mirror my own. {if you make the purchase}
Really like the forum and have been searching my arse off. {I know the drill} :wink:
12-08-2010, 12:11 PM
#24
Skillionare
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So I found one for 15,991 with 57k miles on it. It's an 06 6 speed. Nothing else too special about it. I will be leaving for TX to get it as soon as my bank calls me back. W00T!
12-09-2010, 02:04 AM
#28
Ryan's loving his ATLP TL
Going from an 05 TL Auto to an 07 TL-S 6speed. I gotta say. Go for the manual. This car was meant for it. The auto is great for a person with no need for that extra amount of excitement or power. Or just for a person that doesnt know how to drive a manual. But the manual takes a bit getting used to and can be a bit tricky sometimes, but i've owned my 6SPD since september, and I never regret selling my older TL. It's so much fun to drive this thing! No problems and im about to switch to this awesome GM stuff I'm hear so much about. I just need to read up on it more. If you get the modd bug you'll love her even moreeee. 
12-09-2010, 04:13 PM
#29
I love my 6SPD TL-S thanks to SouthernBoy. For the first couple months I was so ashamed when people would ride with me and I would buck and jerk with my 1-2 shift. I absolutely hated that!! But then I asked him for some advice on shifting it and it worked perfectly. And with more time my shifts are as smooth as silk! This is my first M/T car and its by far my favorite car that I've ever owned. I thought my E46 330i was fun....the TL-S smashes it in fun factor!
12-09-2010, 05:33 PM
#31
Registered Member
That's a pretty wide open question... can you be more specific?
In a nutshell, you want engine and wheel speeds to match in selected gears. I know that sounds a bit nebulous, but it really does come down to that. Getting to that point is a little more interesting and involved.
In a nutshell, you want engine and wheel speeds to match in selected gears. I know that sounds a bit nebulous, but it really does come down to that. Getting to that point is a little more interesting and involved.
12-09-2010, 09:59 PM
#32
Skillionare
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So how is this car different from other manuals? Only thing of major concern that I came across was the thread about pressure switches for the transmission. I have owned two manuals they were both were Honda's and I loved them......
12-09-2010, 10:22 PM
#33
TQ > MPG
I dont have a TL, but I do have a 03 CL-S 6 speed, which IIRC shares the same trans/clutch.
I have 146k miles on my car, original clutch/trans. I am religious with fluid changes every 30k miles, and the GM syncromesh is good, but the reformulated Honda fluid is IMO now equal to it.
I can still burn all of 1st gear, solid spin in the 2nd, and a small chirp in 3rd if its a little cool out. This is on summer tires too, not OEM rubber.
One thing that IMO makes it a little harder to drive the 04 smooth is the electronic throttle body. It takes away quite a bit of the feel and can non-reactive on tip-in.
Either way find one that has been taken care of and it'll treat you good. I would try to get one with the timing belt done already, as its a $500-$1000 job and is due at 7yr/100k miles.
I have 146k miles on my car, original clutch/trans. I am religious with fluid changes every 30k miles, and the GM syncromesh is good, but the reformulated Honda fluid is IMO now equal to it.
I can still burn all of 1st gear, solid spin in the 2nd, and a small chirp in 3rd if its a little cool out. This is on summer tires too, not OEM rubber.
One thing that IMO makes it a little harder to drive the 04 smooth is the electronic throttle body. It takes away quite a bit of the feel and can non-reactive on tip-in.
Either way find one that has been taken care of and it'll treat you good. I would try to get one with the timing belt done already, as its a $500-$1000 job and is due at 7yr/100k miles.
12-09-2010, 10:38 PM
#34
Team Owner
Manual is more fun no doubt. But I didn't get this car for fun.
It's FWD, it's slow, and it's heavy. The manual is barely .5 seconds quicker through the 1/4, it's not like it's a different car or has more power. Manual definately has more advantages than just straight line acceleration but again, just not worth it to me.
If it were a RWD sports car with decent power I probably would've gotten a manual. If I owned two TLs I would probably do one in a manual, one in an auto with the auto being the most used.
Chirping gears is fun but irrelevent when discussing performance....
On topic, both can be made extremely reliable with just a couple mods. The most important mod for the 6mt is the driver mod. Second is the synchromesh FM fluid.
It's FWD, it's slow, and it's heavy. The manual is barely .5 seconds quicker through the 1/4, it's not like it's a different car or has more power. Manual definately has more advantages than just straight line acceleration but again, just not worth it to me.
If it were a RWD sports car with decent power I probably would've gotten a manual. If I owned two TLs I would probably do one in a manual, one in an auto with the auto being the most used.
Chirping gears is fun but irrelevent when discussing performance....
On topic, both can be made extremely reliable with just a couple mods. The most important mod for the 6mt is the driver mod. Second is the synchromesh FM fluid.
12-10-2010, 10:38 AM
#35
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Only other trouble I've had with it was this past Monday. First sub-freezing startup of the year here in Vegas, and it seemed that a power-steering o-ring had gone bad. After a little searching on this forum, I found the fix was easy. 75 cents, and 10 minutes later the car was good as new again.
What symptoms did your car have? Wonder if I have the same o-ring problem as you. Thanks
12-10-2010, 10:51 AM
#36
TQ > MPG
Manual is more fun no doubt. But I didn't get this car for fun.
It's FWD, it's slow, and it's heavy. The manual is barely .5 seconds quicker through the 1/4, it's not like it's a different car or has more power. Manual definately has more advantages than just straight line acceleration but again, just not worth it to me.
If it were a RWD sports car with decent power I probably would've gotten a manual. If I owned two TLs I would probably do one in a manual, one in an auto with the auto being the most used.
Chirping gears is fun but irrelevent when discussing performance....
On topic, both can be made extremely reliable with just a couple mods. The most important mod for the 6mt is the driver mod. Second is the synchromesh FM fluid.
It's FWD, it's slow, and it's heavy. The manual is barely .5 seconds quicker through the 1/4, it's not like it's a different car or has more power. Manual definately has more advantages than just straight line acceleration but again, just not worth it to me.
If it were a RWD sports car with decent power I probably would've gotten a manual. If I owned two TLs I would probably do one in a manual, one in an auto with the auto being the most used.
Chirping gears is fun but irrelevent when discussing performance....
On topic, both can be made extremely reliable with just a couple mods. The most important mod for the 6mt is the driver mod. Second is the synchromesh FM fluid.
Slow and heavy is relative, IMO. Is it slower and heavier than a Corvette? Yes. Is it slower and heavier than 95% of the cars on the road? Definitely not.
The ONLY advantage the auto trans (in the TL) has is city driving convenience. Otherwise it is slower, gets worse mpg (I dont care about the EPA ratings, in real life it gets lower mpg), is much less reliable, and makes the car heavier.
Chirping gears is absolutely irrelevent in regards to forward progress, I was merely stating it to show that after 145k miles + tons of hard driving + summer tires, it still had enough strength to get rubber.
And driver mod is def biggest key in an manual trans car, and the TL takes some learning to get the most out of it. However, IMO I would never get a auto trans TL, seeing the past reliability issues and since the clutch and shifter are so light city driving is still a breeze (and I drive 20k miles a year in metro Detroit rush hour traffic, so I know).
12-10-2010, 02:13 PM
#37
Team Owner
As for the mpg, have you seen examples of real life testing of the 5at vs 6mt? The EPA does give a small advantage to the 6mt and it's probably right. Autos of yesterday used to sap more power and mpg. The TL locks the convertor in 2nd through 5th gear so it's just as efficient as the manual when locked. The figures I can find on the auto vs manual weight put it around a 70lb difference, not much in a 3,500lb car. There's still a gap in performance, mpg, and weight but the gap is getting mighty small.
And driver mod is def biggest key in an manual trans car, and the TL takes some learning to get the most out of it. However, IMO I would never get a auto trans TL, seeing the past reliability issues and since the clutch and shifter are so light city driving is still a breeze (and I drive 20k miles a year in metro Detroit rush hour traffic, so I know).
Driver mod will be the difference between getting 20,000 out of a clutch or 200,000 out of a clutch, most important mod for sure.
The only reason I decided to say anything is it gets old everytime there's a 6mt transmission thread, there are always people that feel the need to say how great the 6mt is and how terrible the 5at is. It's a small difference in straight line acceleration and it doesn't make you a better driver nor does it take a rocket scientist to row your own gears. Both cars run 14s. They're 99% similar. I've never seen a 5at guy take the offensive right away and start in on the 6mt guys about the inconvienence of driving a manual so I don't understand all of the comments about the 5at.
12-10-2010, 04:12 PM
#38
TQ > MPG
As for the mpg, have you seen examples of real life testing of the 5at vs 6mt? The EPA does give a small advantage to the 6mt and it's probably right. Autos of yesterday used to sap more power and mpg. The TL locks the convertor in 2nd through 5th gear so it's just as efficient as the manual when locked. The figures I can find on the auto vs manual weight put it around a 70lb difference, not much in a 3,500lb car. There's still a gap in performance, mpg, and weight but the gap is getting mighty small.
I wasn't singling you out but tons of people always brag about how they can scratch 3rd in the manual. I look at this as a lack of traction rather than too much power. I mean, it's only 210-225whp, it's not going to get rubber in 3rd unless you do some seriously harsh shifting.
The only reason I decided to say anything is it gets old everytime there's a 6mt transmission thread, there are always people that feel the need to say how great the 6mt is and how terrible the 5at is. It's a small difference in straight line acceleration and it doesn't make you a better driver nor does it take a rocket scientist to row your own gears. Both cars run 14s. They're 99% similar. I've never seen a 5at guy take the offensive right away and start in on the 6mt guys about the inconvienence of driving a manual so I don't understand all of the comments about the 5at.
And no Honda is teh w1n fanboy club here, I'd much rather drive my insanely hard to shift, stiff clutch, loud, smelly Cobra 7 days a week if I could, but a 6MT Acura is close to the next best thing (w/o having a monthly payment
)
12-10-2010, 08:49 PM
#40
Team Owner
Thats why they make both, and you are 100% in your right to make that decision. As a matter of fact you are definitely in the majority, as I'll bet 90% of TL's out there are automatics.
Thats a little apples to oranges, as the MT can run reliably on standard Honda fluid, it just shifts better with the Syncromesh. You shouldnt have to swap any parts for the AT to be reliable, but it is what it is.
Thats a little apples to oranges, as the MT can run reliably on standard Honda fluid, it just shifts better with the Syncromesh. You shouldnt have to swap any parts for the AT to be reliable, but it is what it is.
There's still pumping losses with the tq converter when its locked, versus no loss for the MT when engaged. The AT does have less aggressive gear ratios, and a deeper top gear, so that evens out alot of the difference. I would say the biggest difference between the two is not anything mentioned yet, but instead the 6MT having a LSD. If you do drive spirited theres nothing worse than lighting up the inside tire like a dork, when the other guy is putting the power down and moving forward.
I don't have a problem with lighting up the tires. I wish I did. I can put the pedal to the floor from a dead stop a make sharp turn and nothing. Part of it is the tires and part is the lack of torque at the auto's stall speed. Of course, being able to rev it with the manual helps greatly. It kind of makes sense for the manuals to have it. The autos really couldn't take advantage anyway. On the track it's a little different. There are times I wish I had it especially once I added the larger front bar.
Technically its not connected to anything, so thats not just you. lol Hydraulic clutches are like that, and I agree I much prefer the feel of a cable, but for day to day driving, the light effort is much easier to deal with. I guess it would feel fragile compared to a bulky heavy old school setup, but it has shown to be pretty rugged (again, relatively speaking).
I hear ya, and there is definitely some 6MT snobbery that gets thrown around. Alot of people out there that brag about having a 6 speed would probably get annhilated by a 16 y/o girl driving the same car with an automatic. There are some terrible drivers out there, thats for sure. I think most of the times that people get on the 6mt bandwagon is when someone complains that their car feels slow, or had a trans failure, or lost to X car. If they have an auto, its an easy out to say 'shoulda got a stick', however usually they are right.
I fully know the advantages to the manual but sometimes I get a little defensive because of all of the comments. I know you know your stuff but there are some really ignorant things thrown out there by other members in other threads.