Is there a point to double clutching the TL?
08-02-2007, 06:09 PM
#41
Mike's Silver Bullet
Originally Posted by I hate cars
LOL. Your main and rod bearings love super low rpms... I had people looking at me funny in the GN one time when the TCC solenoid in the trans went bad. I was running around with an open downpipe so it was loud as hell. The torque convertor clutch would stick on once it was engaged. Everytime I came to a stop it would kill the motor and it was obvious to anyone in a 100' radius. Bet no one on here has killed an auto before. 
08-02-2007, 06:13 PM
#42
Mike's Silver Bullet
Originally Posted by 94eg!
For fun in my Civic I used try to zero-clutch shift as far as I could go without coming to a complete stop (made it from work to home once). Of course this was before the expensive motor/trans swap. It certainly adds a level of intensity to street driving, and isn't too difficult when you have the relatively light flywheel that my Civic CX had. Later on my brother had to use this technique when his clutch hydraulic system failed him in his Z. My clowning around showed him it was possible, and he managed to adapt on the fly.
And just last year the hydraulic clutch system in my wifes 03 Element completely failed due to a bad master cylinder swap done by the dealer (blew out all the fluid). I had to limp the truck all the way to stealership 10 miles away. I can say that on a car with a heavy flywheel (slow free revving), it is NOT advisable to do this. I think I ended up destroying the 3rd gear synchro to get it there. Fortunately it was all due to their bad install so they had to foot the bill on the rebuild.
Moral: Don't zero clutch your TL unless you absolutely have to, as these cars have quite a heavy flywheel.
And just last year the hydraulic clutch system in my wifes 03 Element completely failed due to a bad master cylinder swap done by the dealer (blew out all the fluid). I had to limp the truck all the way to stealership 10 miles away. I can say that on a car with a heavy flywheel (slow free revving), it is NOT advisable to do this. I think I ended up destroying the 3rd gear synchro to get it there. Fortunately it was all due to their bad install so they had to foot the bill on the rebuild.
Moral: Don't zero clutch your TL unless you absolutely have to, as these cars have quite a heavy flywheel.
08-02-2007, 07:13 PM
#43
Originally Posted by sandynmike
The trick is to hold the shifter lightly against the synchros for the gear you want, then when you feel the synchros letting you, quickly put it in the gear.
08-02-2007, 09:55 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
So those of you who argue that none of this is necessary or in the more extreme case, that is is incorrect, I would suggest you do some research and be willing to learn a bit more.
I suppose the bigger question is- does everyone REALLY downshift that much, and if so, why? Surely you're not one of those that rows down through every gear on the way up to a light? "Save the brakes" and all that nonsense.
Moral: Don't zero clutch your TL unless you absolutely have to, as these cars have quite a heavy flywheel.
No more fooling around there.
08-02-2007, 10:09 PM
#45
8th Gear
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If any of you think that double-clutching is the cat's meow in the TL you're wrong. It's completely unnecessary with modern synchronizers. Let the them do what they are designed to do and use the clutch the way it should be. If you don't, you are increasing the wear on each part. If you think double-clutching is so important to be a good manual transmission operator and to prevent wear, get in touch with your local long-hauler running 13+ speed manual transmission with a two speed axle. As was mentioned earlier, if you really know what you're doing and want to reduce wear and tear, you'll use the clutch to get going, in emergency situations, and when you missed your proper shift. Otherwise you let the engine do the rev matching for you when accelerating, and you rev match yourself on downshifts. An experienced driver can rev match and downshift without ever using the clutch.
Oh, wait, all this means no full throttle acceleration and slow, progressive stops. That's something most people will not do.
Oh, wait, all this means no full throttle acceleration and slow, progressive stops. That's something most people will not do.
08-02-2007, 10:13 PM
#46
Team Owner
Originally Posted by sandynmike
My '84 regal turbo starting doing this too, before I sold it. Fun car, but it didn't have the intercooler.
08-02-2007, 10:38 PM
#47
Racer
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Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
Frankly from my perspective, I have spent a long time doing this and perfecting it. I would imagine more years than a good many of you have been alive. And I know it is the right way, not only for me, but it is just that. I could care less what others do as long as I do it right.
*************
As I wrote in some text I posted a bit ago, there are a number of ways to operate a manual transmission, but there is only one correct way to do it. I certainly didn't invent it.. I just learned it at a young age.
Best of luck to those of you who wish to improve your skills.
*************
As I wrote in some text I posted a bit ago, there are a number of ways to operate a manual transmission, but there is only one correct way to do it. I certainly didn't invent it.. I just learned it at a young age.
Best of luck to those of you who wish to improve your skills.
Sorry, I am just joking.I learned it waaaay ago. Used it on races. Brakes and synchronizer were not that good than. I still can do it. I just don’t see the point with TL’s 6 speed transmission. Sorry.
08-02-2007, 11:17 PM
#49
Team Owner
Originally Posted by mishar
Somebody mentioned compression-braking. What do you guys think does the higher compression engine brake better than lower?
When I think of engine braking I think of Jake brakes. That's real compression braking.
I drove a Dodge Cummins dually with aftermarket Jake home for a guy and accidentally left the Jake on. Downshifted to second gear and locked the wheels going around a corner. It would've been fun if I was ready for it.
08-02-2007, 11:58 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by I hate cars
Higher compression and engine displacement are the primary factors.
When I think of engine braking I think of Jake brakes. That's real compression braking.
I drove a Dodge Cummins dually with aftermarket Jake home for a guy and accidentally left the Jake on. Downshifted to second gear and locked the wheels going around a corner. It would've been fun if I was ready for it.
When I think of engine braking I think of Jake brakes. That's real compression braking.
I drove a Dodge Cummins dually with aftermarket Jake home for a guy and accidentally left the Jake on. Downshifted to second gear and locked the wheels going around a corner. It would've been fun if I was ready for it.
08-03-2007, 05:14 AM
#51
Registered Member
Originally Posted by T Ho
Thanks for the condescension, but I'll stick by my own personal experience. All this over double-clutched downshifting? You make it sound like the car won't make 50k if you don't do this.
I suppose the bigger question is- does everyone REALLY downshift that much, and if so, why? Surely you're not one of those that rows down through every gear on the way up to a light? "Save the brakes" and all that nonsense.
I suppose the bigger question is- does everyone REALLY downshift that much, and if so, why? Surely you're not one of those that rows down through every gear on the way up to a light? "Save the brakes" and all that nonsense.
As for the car not making it past 50K miles.. hardly. I would be most disappointed were this to be the case.
And as for downshifting "that much", for me.. no, not a whole lot.. only when needed or necessary. I certanly don't row down through the gears coming up to a red light to save brake. I tend to think that is a might "showy".
As I stated in a previous response, I could care less what others to with their cars.. it's their business, not mine. I could have just as easily said that I don't give a rat's ass, but then again, that would not be all together civil.
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