synthetic = bad...?????
#1
JDM Laser Fogs!
Thread Starter
synthetic = bad...?????
I have a 05 TL with 3200 miles... my oil change is coming up soon and i want to swich to a synthetic lubrication. I went to the dealership where i got my TL and ask the head parts person If Acura makes a synthetic oil. He told me that he can get me synthetic, but he highly recommends that i dont
???
All my life i thought that synthetic was supposed to be best for your car/engine. I thought that synthetic was to keep your engine running smoother for longer and helping it keep cool. Anyways the head parts guy said "deff. dont use synthetic"
As i was leaving the dealership i stopped by the mechanic shop. I talked to somebody else there and he said the same thing. I run my TL pretty hard, and want an oil to help the engine out. Although oil doesnt add any hp, it could help my TL last longer...
So i just wanted some suggestions/ oppinons one what to do.
Thanks for the help.
![what](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/what.gif)
All my life i thought that synthetic was supposed to be best for your car/engine. I thought that synthetic was to keep your engine running smoother for longer and helping it keep cool. Anyways the head parts guy said "deff. dont use synthetic"
As i was leaving the dealership i stopped by the mechanic shop. I talked to somebody else there and he said the same thing. I run my TL pretty hard, and want an oil to help the engine out. Although oil doesnt add any hp, it could help my TL last longer...
So i just wanted some suggestions/ oppinons one what to do.
Thanks for the help.
#2
A lot of members do use synthetics and those who use blends as well as dinos. There are a number or threads regarding synthetics vs dinos. Any posts and threads concerning lubrication by RoadRage and MichaelWan (resident oil expert) is worth reading. Here are some links to start you off and you should also do a search for more.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114218
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126317
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107162
https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/tl-cl-video-105573/
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114218
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126317
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107162
https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/tl-cl-video-105573/
#3
Originally Posted by brownie
I have a 05 TL with 3200 miles... my oil change is coming up soon and i want to swich to a synthetic lubrication. I went to the dealership where i got my TL and ask the head parts person If Acura makes a synthetic oil. He told me that he can get me synthetic, but he highly recommends that i dont
???
All my life i thought that synthetic was supposed to be best for your car/engine. I thought that synthetic was to keep your engine running smoother for longer and helping it keep cool. Anyways the head parts guy said "deff. dont use synthetic"
As i was leaving the dealership i stopped by the mechanic shop. I talked to somebody else there and he said the same thing. I run my TL pretty hard, and want an oil to help the engine out. Although oil doesnt add any hp, it could help my TL last longer...
So i just wanted some suggestions/ oppinons one what to do.
Thanks for the help.
![what](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/what.gif)
All my life i thought that synthetic was supposed to be best for your car/engine. I thought that synthetic was to keep your engine running smoother for longer and helping it keep cool. Anyways the head parts guy said "deff. dont use synthetic"
As i was leaving the dealership i stopped by the mechanic shop. I talked to somebody else there and he said the same thing. I run my TL pretty hard, and want an oil to help the engine out. Although oil doesnt add any hp, it could help my TL last longer...
So i just wanted some suggestions/ oppinons one what to do.
Thanks for the help.
In your case, perhaps it is because of your low mileage. My understanding is that Acura includes a special additive from the factory to assist with break-in and strongly recommends against an early first oil change. Others have posted that they have done early first oil changes, but they have also used specific oils that contain this same additive.
#4
Are you REALLY going to run the car till 300,000 miles?
If not, synthetic wont buy you anything.
If you go by the mid and change the oil when its supposed to be changed, a good quality oil should be fine.
I get a kick out of people spending the bucks for a synthetic oil change who will only run the car to 80,000 miles. The next people to get the car would be happy most likely, but its not doing anything for the first owner.
The only time I would run synthetic in the TL is if I wanted to go to extended drains, like 10,000 miles, and even then its more expensive.
Brett
If not, synthetic wont buy you anything.
If you go by the mid and change the oil when its supposed to be changed, a good quality oil should be fine.
I get a kick out of people spending the bucks for a synthetic oil change who will only run the car to 80,000 miles. The next people to get the car would be happy most likely, but its not doing anything for the first owner.
The only time I would run synthetic in the TL is if I wanted to go to extended drains, like 10,000 miles, and even then its more expensive.
Brett
#5
RAR
I found a pretty interesting post on another forum:
PART 1:
Today's topic seams to be motor oil related. I am a NASA Engineer at
Marshal Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama. My field of work is
Tribology which is the study of friction, wear, and lubrication. In our
spare time, our group collects and tests different motor oils using the
Shell Four Ball tester. This tester tests the extreme pressure properties
of oils. These areas in a motor are cam to lifter contacts, valve stem to
guild, and piston skirts. Over the years we have found synthetic bases oils
to out perform mineral based oils by a large margin. We test the oils new,
after 1000 miles, 2000 miles, and up to 10,000 miles. In a nut shell, we
found that synthetic oils have better wear properties after being run 10,000
miles then mineral grade oils new. Which synthetic do we use? First any
you will benefit from any synthetic, but we use Mobil 1. Mobil by far puts
more research dollars in motor oils then any other company. They are also
aggressive in racing.
Other notes on motor oils.
Do not run a multi grade oil (10w-30) more then 1000 to 2000 miles -
depending on your driving habits.
This is because a 10w30 oil starts its life as a 10 weight oil and large
polymer chains are added to get the 30 rating. These chains break down very
quickly which produces small chains with an open electron charge at the
ends. These ends attract grim and form sludge.
Do not run synthetics in a new rebuild. A new engine needs the added
friction allowed by mineral oils to set the rings properly. Chevy found
this out on the corvette. These cars came from the factory with Mobil 1 and
owners brought them back because of smoking and oil consumption (rings did
not seat). Run a good single weight oil for the first 2000 miles. We found
Havaline 30 to be a good mineral oil - in fact we use it for our standard.
The reason Mobil 1 can safely be run for 10,000 miles is because the
additive package is well engineered to isolate grim and hold it in
suspension. This also is why Mobil 1 is expensive. You know - you get what
you pay for.
I know there are a lot of questions on motor oils. You can e-mail me for
more information or search the web for more details on synthetics. Your
Roadster deserves the best - run synthetic oils.
Phil Hall
Part 2:
I listed multi grade oil break down at 1000 to 2000 miles. This is for the
junk oils found at circle K for a dollar. A good name brand oil will last
3000 miles without too much break down. This is for mineral grade oils -
synthetic oils meet government viscosity tests for ratings without adding
thickeners like polymer chains.
Guys here at work run synthetics in motors that have 140,000 to 170,000
miles on them without any more oil consumption them normal. I believe that
you will get a slight increase in consumption in older motors because the
synthetic are very slippery and can get by old rings easier. In these cases
going to a 15w-50 may help, but this is not a reason not to use synthetics.
Older motors need the extra protection. At running temperature a synthetic
will maintain its viscosity, where a mineral oil viscosity is DRASTICALLY
REDUCED.
A test on how well synthetics work at different temperature can be done in
your home. Get a quart of your favorite mineral oil and a quart of a
synthetic. Put a cup a each oil in a glass or paper cup and stick in the
freezer over night. In the morning try and pour the oils out. Next test:
DO THIS OUTSIDE. On an old camp stove put a ¼ of the synthetic oil in an
old frying pan and put it on the stove on the highest heat setting. Cook
for 30 minutes. Now cook your oil for 30 minutes. At this point you will
see why you cooked the synthetic first. As the oil cooks pour some out to
see the changes in viscosity between the oils.
Part 3 on oil additive coming soon. I need to back to NASA work.
Phil Hall
Part 3:
The question of change intervals and synthetic oil has come up. As a side
at work we run oil tests using the Shell Four Ball test rig. This tester
was developed by Shell oil to test the extreme wear properties of motor oils
- cams, piston skirts etc. It consists of three, = inch balls held in a
triangular pattern in a cup with oil heated to 165 degrees. A forth ball is
lowered to the center of the three balls and loaded to 40 KG. The ball is
then rotated 600 RPM for one hour. After the test the wear scar is measured
on the three stationary balls. The bigger the scar the lower the extreme
wear property of the oil is. We use Havoline 30 wt for a base line. We use
this oil because engineers from the past liked this oil, so we have a large
data base.
Looking at data shows new Havoline 30 wt has a wear scar of .0165 inches.
New Mobil 1 has a .0145 inch scar. May not seem like a lot of difference,
but it is. Havoline 30 at 3000 miles has a wear scar of .020 inches and
Mobil 1 at 4000 miles has a .0164 scar. Remember - the bigger the badder.
3000 miles is as long as anyone was willing to run Havoline 30 wt, so its
data stops here. Mobil 1 at 6000 miles is .0167, at 8000 miles is .0188,
and at 10,000 miles is .0194. So, at 10,000 miles Mobil 1 has better
lubrication properties in the critical areas in your motor then a good 30
wt. All mineral oils follow Havoline pretty close - major brands. Some off
brands have a .020 wear scar new. Multi-grades generally have a larger wear
scar as well. This data was from a 5.0 Ford Mustang. Every motor will be
slightly different, but not much.
So, synthetic can handle long run intervals. But, that is part of the
story. You have contaminates to deal with. This is where the additive
package comes in play. This is the expensive part of oils and the reason
synthetics are high priced. Because of the long run intervals of synthetic,
they must have a vastly superior additive package - and they do. Proof of
this is to take 3000 mile dino oil and look at it in a glass jar - then do
the same for Mobil 1. The Mobil 1 will look new compared to the dino oil.
I run Mobil 1 in my new cars to the longest manufactures oil change interval
- usually 7000 miles. This will keep the warranty happy. In my Roadster I
change it once a year regardless of mileage. It run my Roadster about 5000
miles a year. Most people at work run synthetics and do the same. We have
a bunch of cars in the lot that have over 200,000 miles on them and going
strong. I (my wife) never keeps one that long.
I run 10w-30 Mobil 1 in my new Roadster motors (after break-in). Older
motors get 15w-50 because the tolerances are larger. Because synthetics
don't thin down like mineral oils do at temperature, I would be careful
running 15w-50 in a motor with a high volume oil pump. By doing so you may
run into cavitation problems - oil gage jumping wildly. Drag racers
experience this often at high RPM. Drop a wt and it will clear up.
I checked the auto parts stores last night and could not find a zero wt
Mobil 1. It was about 2 years ago they were talking introducing this oil,
so apparently they have in some markets. I stand corrected.
Testing another "magic" oil additive today. It looks and smells like
linseed oil! This should be fun. Additives are another subject all
together. Another day, but never tested a good one - none- zip - zero -
don't waste your money.
Sorry for being soo long. I like synthetics (obviously). If you have been
to the conferences, seen all the tests and data, and read the lubrication
journals you would run nothing other then synthetics.
Phil
Today's topic seams to be motor oil related. I am a NASA Engineer at
Marshal Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama. My field of work is
Tribology which is the study of friction, wear, and lubrication. In our
spare time, our group collects and tests different motor oils using the
Shell Four Ball tester. This tester tests the extreme pressure properties
of oils. These areas in a motor are cam to lifter contacts, valve stem to
guild, and piston skirts. Over the years we have found synthetic bases oils
to out perform mineral based oils by a large margin. We test the oils new,
after 1000 miles, 2000 miles, and up to 10,000 miles. In a nut shell, we
found that synthetic oils have better wear properties after being run 10,000
miles then mineral grade oils new. Which synthetic do we use? First any
you will benefit from any synthetic, but we use Mobil 1. Mobil by far puts
more research dollars in motor oils then any other company. They are also
aggressive in racing.
Other notes on motor oils.
Do not run a multi grade oil (10w-30) more then 1000 to 2000 miles -
depending on your driving habits.
This is because a 10w30 oil starts its life as a 10 weight oil and large
polymer chains are added to get the 30 rating. These chains break down very
quickly which produces small chains with an open electron charge at the
ends. These ends attract grim and form sludge.
Do not run synthetics in a new rebuild. A new engine needs the added
friction allowed by mineral oils to set the rings properly. Chevy found
this out on the corvette. These cars came from the factory with Mobil 1 and
owners brought them back because of smoking and oil consumption (rings did
not seat). Run a good single weight oil for the first 2000 miles. We found
Havaline 30 to be a good mineral oil - in fact we use it for our standard.
The reason Mobil 1 can safely be run for 10,000 miles is because the
additive package is well engineered to isolate grim and hold it in
suspension. This also is why Mobil 1 is expensive. You know - you get what
you pay for.
I know there are a lot of questions on motor oils. You can e-mail me for
more information or search the web for more details on synthetics. Your
Roadster deserves the best - run synthetic oils.
Phil Hall
Part 2:
I listed multi grade oil break down at 1000 to 2000 miles. This is for the
junk oils found at circle K for a dollar. A good name brand oil will last
3000 miles without too much break down. This is for mineral grade oils -
synthetic oils meet government viscosity tests for ratings without adding
thickeners like polymer chains.
Guys here at work run synthetics in motors that have 140,000 to 170,000
miles on them without any more oil consumption them normal. I believe that
you will get a slight increase in consumption in older motors because the
synthetic are very slippery and can get by old rings easier. In these cases
going to a 15w-50 may help, but this is not a reason not to use synthetics.
Older motors need the extra protection. At running temperature a synthetic
will maintain its viscosity, where a mineral oil viscosity is DRASTICALLY
REDUCED.
A test on how well synthetics work at different temperature can be done in
your home. Get a quart of your favorite mineral oil and a quart of a
synthetic. Put a cup a each oil in a glass or paper cup and stick in the
freezer over night. In the morning try and pour the oils out. Next test:
DO THIS OUTSIDE. On an old camp stove put a ¼ of the synthetic oil in an
old frying pan and put it on the stove on the highest heat setting. Cook
for 30 minutes. Now cook your oil for 30 minutes. At this point you will
see why you cooked the synthetic first. As the oil cooks pour some out to
see the changes in viscosity between the oils.
Part 3 on oil additive coming soon. I need to back to NASA work.
Phil Hall
Part 3:
The question of change intervals and synthetic oil has come up. As a side
at work we run oil tests using the Shell Four Ball test rig. This tester
was developed by Shell oil to test the extreme wear properties of motor oils
- cams, piston skirts etc. It consists of three, = inch balls held in a
triangular pattern in a cup with oil heated to 165 degrees. A forth ball is
lowered to the center of the three balls and loaded to 40 KG. The ball is
then rotated 600 RPM for one hour. After the test the wear scar is measured
on the three stationary balls. The bigger the scar the lower the extreme
wear property of the oil is. We use Havoline 30 wt for a base line. We use
this oil because engineers from the past liked this oil, so we have a large
data base.
Looking at data shows new Havoline 30 wt has a wear scar of .0165 inches.
New Mobil 1 has a .0145 inch scar. May not seem like a lot of difference,
but it is. Havoline 30 at 3000 miles has a wear scar of .020 inches and
Mobil 1 at 4000 miles has a .0164 scar. Remember - the bigger the badder.
3000 miles is as long as anyone was willing to run Havoline 30 wt, so its
data stops here. Mobil 1 at 6000 miles is .0167, at 8000 miles is .0188,
and at 10,000 miles is .0194. So, at 10,000 miles Mobil 1 has better
lubrication properties in the critical areas in your motor then a good 30
wt. All mineral oils follow Havoline pretty close - major brands. Some off
brands have a .020 wear scar new. Multi-grades generally have a larger wear
scar as well. This data was from a 5.0 Ford Mustang. Every motor will be
slightly different, but not much.
So, synthetic can handle long run intervals. But, that is part of the
story. You have contaminates to deal with. This is where the additive
package comes in play. This is the expensive part of oils and the reason
synthetics are high priced. Because of the long run intervals of synthetic,
they must have a vastly superior additive package - and they do. Proof of
this is to take 3000 mile dino oil and look at it in a glass jar - then do
the same for Mobil 1. The Mobil 1 will look new compared to the dino oil.
I run Mobil 1 in my new cars to the longest manufactures oil change interval
- usually 7000 miles. This will keep the warranty happy. In my Roadster I
change it once a year regardless of mileage. It run my Roadster about 5000
miles a year. Most people at work run synthetics and do the same. We have
a bunch of cars in the lot that have over 200,000 miles on them and going
strong. I (my wife) never keeps one that long.
I run 10w-30 Mobil 1 in my new Roadster motors (after break-in). Older
motors get 15w-50 because the tolerances are larger. Because synthetics
don't thin down like mineral oils do at temperature, I would be careful
running 15w-50 in a motor with a high volume oil pump. By doing so you may
run into cavitation problems - oil gage jumping wildly. Drag racers
experience this often at high RPM. Drop a wt and it will clear up.
I checked the auto parts stores last night and could not find a zero wt
Mobil 1. It was about 2 years ago they were talking introducing this oil,
so apparently they have in some markets. I stand corrected.
Testing another "magic" oil additive today. It looks and smells like
linseed oil! This should be fun. Additives are another subject all
together. Another day, but never tested a good one - none- zip - zero -
don't waste your money.
Sorry for being soo long. I like synthetics (obviously). If you have been
to the conferences, seen all the tests and data, and read the lubrication
journals you would run nothing other then synthetics.
Phil
#6
I dont doubt mobil 1 is good stuff, but we run the work vans past 200,000 miles on 5000 mile dino oil changes using whatever the chain shops use and dont have oil use or smoking, etc.
Now if you plan on running the motor till over 200,000 or 300,000 miles, its likely a good idea to run synthetic.
How many people run a car past 100,000 miles?
Brett
Now if you plan on running the motor till over 200,000 or 300,000 miles, its likely a good idea to run synthetic.
How many people run a car past 100,000 miles?
Brett
Trending Topics
#9
信是寶
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lancaster/Downingtown/Philly, PA
Age: 55
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by brownie
I have a 05 TL with 3200 miles... my oil change is coming up soon and i want to swich to a synthetic lubrication. I went to the dealership where i got my TL and ask the head parts person If Acura makes a synthetic oil. He told me that he can get me synthetic, but he highly recommends that i dont
???
All my life i thought that synthetic was supposed to be best for your car/engine. I thought that synthetic was to keep your engine running smoother for longer and helping it keep cool. Anyways the head parts guy said "deff. dont use synthetic"
![what](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/what.gif)
All my life i thought that synthetic was supposed to be best for your car/engine. I thought that synthetic was to keep your engine running smoother for longer and helping it keep cool. Anyways the head parts guy said "deff. dont use synthetic"
I use synthetic and a good filter - I don't lease and I keep my cars for a while, that's why I bought an Acura. Be nice to your motor and treat it well. It's not that expensive ... if you can afford a new TL you can afford some good oil and a filter.
#10
One on the right for me
PM MW...he knows, as everyone else has mentioned. I use synthetic, regular, makes no difference to me, syn blend, whatever. Depends on the car for me
#11
Originally Posted by Brettg
I dont doubt mobil 1 is good stuff, but we run the work vans past 200,000 miles on 5000 mile dino oil changes using whatever the chain shops use and dont have oil use or smoking, etc.
Now if you plan on running the motor till over 200,000 or 300,000 miles, its likely a good idea to run synthetic.
How many people run a car past 100,000 miles?
Brett
Now if you plan on running the motor till over 200,000 or 300,000 miles, its likely a good idea to run synthetic.
How many people run a car past 100,000 miles?
Brett
#12
Suzuka Master
Originally Posted by jhall
So what do you think about semi-synthetics?
#13
Hmmm...sounds interesting...
Here is what I was planning on doing...
First Oil change: 3,000 (ignore 5,000 indicator)....with regular weight oil...let rings set properly
Second Oil change: 8,000 (using mobil 1).....and now change it at 5k intervals.
thoughts?
Here is what I was planning on doing...
First Oil change: 3,000 (ignore 5,000 indicator)....with regular weight oil...let rings set properly
Second Oil change: 8,000 (using mobil 1).....and now change it at 5k intervals.
thoughts?
#15
Originally Posted by frank69m
Hmmm...sounds interesting...
Here is what I was planning on doing...
First Oil change: 3,000 (ignore 5,000 indicator)....with regular weight oil...let rings set properly
Second Oil change: 8,000 (using mobil 1).....and now change it at 5k intervals.
thoughts?
Here is what I was planning on doing...
First Oil change: 3,000 (ignore 5,000 indicator)....with regular weight oil...let rings set properly
Second Oil change: 8,000 (using mobil 1).....and now change it at 5k intervals.
thoughts?
Now that havoline has changed their formulation, I may run the motorcraft semi synthetic and change it per the mid.
BMW cars likely use very expensive synthetic oil, like potensin, and with enough oil capacity and a big filter, extended drains are fine.
Modern motors run very clean, they do not dump loads of unburnt fuel into the oil, oil temps get hot enough to cook out most moisture, so synthetic can handle it.
Brett
#16
HMFIC
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Columbia, MD
Age: 54
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This NASA dude is full of it. I have an oil analysis of Havoline 5W30 from my wife's Accord that was run just over 5000 miles and it is still in grade, has plenty of TBN to neutralize the acid from combustion and has very low wear metals. I use Motorcraft 5W20 blend in my TL with similar results at MID intervals (~6600 miles).
This Phil Hill doesn't write like a Tribologist, he sounds like a middle-manager with a fancy car.
My motorcycle that sees frequent track duty gets Redline synthetic 10W40. When it's hot in August and I'm on the track doing an honest 175 MPH, I prefer the protection of full synthetic oils.
This Phil Hill doesn't write like a Tribologist, he sounds like a middle-manager with a fancy car.
My motorcycle that sees frequent track duty gets Redline synthetic 10W40. When it's hot in August and I'm on the track doing an honest 175 MPH, I prefer the protection of full synthetic oils.
#17
JDM Laser Fogs!
Thread Starter
Alright i think im just going to wait till the sec. oil change to go synthetic.... but what oil, and oil filter combination??? (and i know this has been brought up before) but its a newbie thing..
thanks alot for the help.
thanks alot for the help.
#18
Team Nighthawk Mambo King
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Westfield, MA
Age: 64
Posts: 1,089
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Originally Posted by Brettg
I dont doubt mobil 1 is good stuff, but we run the work vans past 200,000 miles on 5000 mile dino oil changes using whatever the chain shops use and dont have oil use or smoking, etc.
Now if you plan on running the motor till over 200,000 or 300,000 miles, its likely a good idea to run synthetic.
How many people run a car past 100,000 miles?
Brett
Now if you plan on running the motor till over 200,000 or 300,000 miles, its likely a good idea to run synthetic.
How many people run a car past 100,000 miles?
Brett
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Now do I plan to put 200,000 on the TL, sure why not and the Ody as well, unless my wife decides ( she is the one who gets tired of her cars ) to get the new RDX, but getting back to the topic here, I did switch to Castrol Synthec for the fact that is $18 @ Wallymart, comes in a convenient 5QT jug and really if I happen to go a few miles over the 5k interval I don't sweat it...
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#19
I buy a car brand new then never change the oil. I drive about 30k then trade it in and let someone else deal with it. lol
Of course I am kidding.
Change every 3k with Havoline or Mobil 5w 20. I trade or sell at 90k+
Of course I am kidding.
Change every 3k with Havoline or Mobil 5w 20. I trade or sell at 90k+
#21
![Talking](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif)
Originally Posted by KeithL
Personally i think they are a waste, I don't have anything scientific to back that up, thought i did read someo where that they are not better than dino.
i think people named Keith are silly. i don't have anything scientific to back that up, tho i did read somewhere that they are silly.
#22
Moderator
In Acuras, it is perfectly safe to switch over to a synthetic oil once you have >3000 miles on the engine and the factory "break-in" oil if you desire. It is unnecessary to continue using conventional oil to allow for "break-in" as it won't bring you any benefits.
And the independent garage, as well as the Acura dealer, were implying that Honda engines are extremely durable and perform well even when abused. (not suggested) Only the engines on the market that "spec" synthetic oil really need it, for all other apps, unless you're racing, it is overkill.
There are tons of cars that run 5000-7500 mile intervals on dino 5w30,10w30,or10w40 back in the 80s and 90s when oils were no where as good as the modern API SM oils, and they still last >300,000, if the owners actually kept them that long.
And Brett, BMW uses their own 5W30 ACEA A3/B3 oil for the 15-20K drain intervals with a normal "cellulose" cartridge oil filter. It is manufactured by Castrol for BMW, and costs about $4.95/qt, which is actually less than what you pay for Mobil 1 at most stores. MB now uses a 229.5 approved oil for their engines (Most common is either Mobil 1 0w40 or Castrol Syntec 0w30) for a 1-yr/13,000 mile drain interval (10,000 miles for AMG) with a "fleece" media cartridge oil filter that costs $15-$20.
And the independent garage, as well as the Acura dealer, were implying that Honda engines are extremely durable and perform well even when abused. (not suggested) Only the engines on the market that "spec" synthetic oil really need it, for all other apps, unless you're racing, it is overkill.
There are tons of cars that run 5000-7500 mile intervals on dino 5w30,10w30,or10w40 back in the 80s and 90s when oils were no where as good as the modern API SM oils, and they still last >300,000, if the owners actually kept them that long.
And Brett, BMW uses their own 5W30 ACEA A3/B3 oil for the 15-20K drain intervals with a normal "cellulose" cartridge oil filter. It is manufactured by Castrol for BMW, and costs about $4.95/qt, which is actually less than what you pay for Mobil 1 at most stores. MB now uses a 229.5 approved oil for their engines (Most common is either Mobil 1 0w40 or Castrol Syntec 0w30) for a 1-yr/13,000 mile drain interval (10,000 miles for AMG) with a "fleece" media cartridge oil filter that costs $15-$20.
![EEK!](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif)
#24
Senior Moderator
200k on my 2nd gen with 10k+ change intervals of synthetic
#25
Unshunned
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: da branch
Age: 50
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by frank69m
By the way, why do BMW's do oil change at 15k intervals..they say it isn't needed every 5k.
#26
This is very interesting. I have 113k miles on my car. I have used standard oil every 3000-3500k since I bought this car new. The engine runs as strong as it did the day I bought it. The engine does not burn any oil. It does not make any lifter noise. I runs perfectly. I maintain, that if you are going to use regular oil then changing at 3k miles is as good as running Synthetic with 10k oil changes. Anyone who is changing synthetic oil at 5k or less is just waisting their money. I do agree with a previous poster that if you plan on keeping the car until the tow truck hauls it away to a junk yard, then M1 is a good investment. Anyone that trades their car in at 120k miles or less who has used M1 has waisted allot of money. The next owner should buy you dinner with the money he/she is going to save in engine repairs!
#27
10th Gear
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Daytona Beach, FLA
Age: 42
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont care what the dealer is telling you. I have had my car since Oct 04, and only use synthetic. NO PROBLEMS (knock on wood) AT ALL. If the dealer doesn't reccomend using synthetic oil, he doesn't know the differance. Synthetic is by far a better choice, and with a V-Tech engine, you may want to take care of it and use synthetic. Moble1 Is my reccomendation. I have been using it in the last 3 cars I had, and I have put it to the test (23,000 miles no change in 95 Mustang). Best stuff there is.
#28
Man of God.....
OK, I have used synth in ALL my motors since about 1970! It is the best . The cost is offset by less frequent changes (and in my book the waste of my time). Now I live in Minnesota. It gets cold up here. I mean COLD! Like 30-40 below zero F. Have you ever seen organic oil at -40F? Its like thick THICK honey. Not synth oil. It is a little thicker (@ -40F) but not much. I have started my (synth oil) car right beside others (reg. oil) that wouldn't start. You can hear the difference! It VERY easy to hear. The synth car just turns over and starts! The other? Turns over VERY slowly. Start? Maybe, maybe not......
Also in car's I owned before the computer controlled idle. I saw idle speed gain of 300RPM. Now that is ONLY doing an oil change! From organic oil to full synth. That tells me "LESS FRICTION!!"
I am getting my 06TL tomorrow (2-28-6). After breaking it in. You know it's getting ONLY the best=synth oil.......
Also in car's I owned before the computer controlled idle. I saw idle speed gain of 300RPM. Now that is ONLY doing an oil change! From organic oil to full synth. That tells me "LESS FRICTION!!"
I am getting my 06TL tomorrow (2-28-6). After breaking it in. You know it's getting ONLY the best=synth oil.......
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#29
Columbia Univ. c/o 2004
Join Date: May 2005
Location: CA
Age: 43
Posts: 266
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I still have my 1992 Acura Legend with +330K miles on it.
Bought it when it had less than 12k in 1999 and have since put over 320,000 additional miles on it by 2005. That's an average of 53,000 miles a year. I've only used synthetic at 4-5k intervals.
Unless someone proves me otherwise, I'm a firm advocate of synthetic.
Bought it when it had less than 12k in 1999 and have since put over 320,000 additional miles on it by 2005. That's an average of 53,000 miles a year. I've only used synthetic at 4-5k intervals.
Unless someone proves me otherwise, I'm a firm advocate of synthetic.
#30
Originally Posted by architectonic
I still have my 1992 Acura Legend with +330K miles on it.
Bought it when it had less than 12k in 1999 and have since put over 320,000 additional miles on it by 2005. That's an average of 53,000 miles a year. I've only used synthetic at 4-5k intervals.
Unless someone proves me otherwise, I'm a firm advocate of synthetic.
Bought it when it had less than 12k in 1999 and have since put over 320,000 additional miles on it by 2005. That's an average of 53,000 miles a year. I've only used synthetic at 4-5k intervals.
Unless someone proves me otherwise, I'm a firm advocate of synthetic.
#31
Instructor
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cincy, O
Age: 49
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Acura puts out a magazine that comes to me every few months or so. Last year, they sent one out and one of the topics was about whether or not synthetic is better for your engine than dino.
They had their R&D folks check it out and they found no advantage over a standard dino and recommended saving your money unless you go to longer change intervals. Because I'm the obcessive compulsive type, I still use Mobil 1 5w20 and a Mobil 1 filter on the 3k drain in the TL...![Tomato](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tomato.gif)
My F250 gets motorcraft 5w20 w/ a motorcraft filter every 3k and my Accord gets Havoline 5w30 w/ a Pure 1 filter.
They had their R&D folks check it out and they found no advantage over a standard dino and recommended saving your money unless you go to longer change intervals. Because I'm the obcessive compulsive type, I still use Mobil 1 5w20 and a Mobil 1 filter on the 3k drain in the TL...
![Tomato](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tomato.gif)
My F250 gets motorcraft 5w20 w/ a motorcraft filter every 3k and my Accord gets Havoline 5w30 w/ a Pure 1 filter.
#32
Oil Dilmena
Originally Posted by leedogg
Less wear and tear on an engine is always good. I plan on sticking with dino for the first few oil changes, then work my way into a semisynthetic and finally go pure synthetic.
I have a scenario.
Neighbor next door moved and gave me
one 4 quart jug of MOBIL 1 Extended performance 5w30 and
one 4 quart jug of MOBIL 1 Extended performance 10w30
? im using mobil 1 5w20 currently , in and arround NYC. Turns out im about to go across country to live in Los Angeles, the 5w30 seems to be making more sense with the hotter temperatures in southern california.
anybody see any pitfalls.
Would there be a problem of mixing say 2quarts 5w20 and 2quarts of 5w30 to go across country?
I hate to throw the stuff away its says 15000 mile changeout, ( which i would never do_)
#33
Moderator
The days of needing to switch grades based on temperatures are long gone...
5w20, 5w30, or 10w30 would do fine under ANY temperature. There are tons of cars running 5w20 dino changed at 5K intervals, with >200K on them out in Texas, CA, etc...and these are all police cars...There are no durability issues with running 5w20 for the recommended drain interval.
5w30 and 10w30 are interchangeable. The 5w and 10w are values that represent an oil's viscosity at extremely low temperatures. The 10w syn oils generally use little or no viscosity index improvers, while the 5w must still use some in order to pass the tests to be designated as a 5w. There are no problems with shearing with either a 5w or 10w synthetic oil due to the quality and small amount of VII being used.
So use any of the three with confidence at the recommended drain interval, given your conditions.
5w20, 5w30, or 10w30 would do fine under ANY temperature. There are tons of cars running 5w20 dino changed at 5K intervals, with >200K on them out in Texas, CA, etc...and these are all police cars...There are no durability issues with running 5w20 for the recommended drain interval.
5w30 and 10w30 are interchangeable. The 5w and 10w are values that represent an oil's viscosity at extremely low temperatures. The 10w syn oils generally use little or no viscosity index improvers, while the 5w must still use some in order to pass the tests to be designated as a 5w. There are no problems with shearing with either a 5w or 10w synthetic oil due to the quality and small amount of VII being used.
So use any of the three with confidence at the recommended drain interval, given your conditions.
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
#34
Suzuka Master
dealerships are full of sh*it, its typical for them to "recommend" Honda products only. Synthetics is not a factory fill, so thats why they don't "recommend" it.
I have 2001 CL 56K miles running on Mobil1 since first oil change, I change my oil every 6-7K miles. Now that I am using M1 Extended performance, I will change it only once a year since I drive less than 15K miles a year.
I have 2001 CL 56K miles running on Mobil1 since first oil change, I change my oil every 6-7K miles. Now that I am using M1 Extended performance, I will change it only once a year since I drive less than 15K miles a year.
#36
Originally Posted by bwilder10h
Acura puts out a magazine that comes to me every few months or so. Last year, they sent one out and one of the topics was about whether or not synthetic is better for your engine than dino.
They had their R&D folks check it out and they found no advantage over a standard dino and recommended saving your money unless you go to longer change intervals. Because I'm the obcessive compulsive type, I still use Mobil 1 5w20 and a Mobil 1 filter on the 3k drain in the TL...![Tomato](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tomato.gif)
My F250 gets motorcraft 5w20 w/ a motorcraft filter every 3k and my Accord gets Havoline 5w30 w/ a Pure 1 filter.
They had their R&D folks check it out and they found no advantage over a standard dino and recommended saving your money unless you go to longer change intervals. Because I'm the obcessive compulsive type, I still use Mobil 1 5w20 and a Mobil 1 filter on the 3k drain in the TL...
![Tomato](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tomato.gif)
My F250 gets motorcraft 5w20 w/ a motorcraft filter every 3k and my Accord gets Havoline 5w30 w/ a Pure 1 filter.
where do u get 5w20 mobil one?
#37
Autozone or VIP auto center. They aren't always stocked up, so it may be a good idea to call first. I also use a Mobil1 110 filter, often sold out, so I usually hit up a few places.
Mike
Mike
#38
Three Wheelin'
Synthetic is clearly better if you're hard on your engine.
If you run at extreme temps hot or cold
If you run extended oil changes
If you spend alot of time at high rpms (racing etc)
If you drive like a normal person and change oil at standard intervals you're not likely to see the benefits in the normal life of a car.
I run synthetics past beak in just because its cheap insurance though. And I belong a little bit in all three of those categories.
YMMV of course.
If you run at extreme temps hot or cold
If you run extended oil changes
If you spend alot of time at high rpms (racing etc)
If you drive like a normal person and change oil at standard intervals you're not likely to see the benefits in the normal life of a car.
I run synthetics past beak in just because its cheap insurance though. And I belong a little bit in all three of those categories.
YMMV of course.
#39
Synthetics are most definitely better than conventional oils. Also, the price difference is small compared to the overall costs of car ownership ($30-$40/year extra vs. $thousands it costs for gas, insurance, interest, depreciation, taxes and other fees).
#40
JDM Laser Fogs!
Thread Starter
Will the MID miss read or malfunction because you are using synthetic? Longer change intervals...
I also fit well, into geekybiker list
I also fit well, into geekybiker list