MiaQbn23

Doesn't the TL have an Immobilizer in the key? So someone can break your window and take what you have inside but can they still turn on the car and take off with it? Has anybody had problems with stolen Xenon headlights like the 2G TL?

ggoldenhawk

Just sold my tl. no lowjack. maybe next time .

Thanks for advise.

ggoldenhawk

If they had no weapons on them. They would had a hardtime bringing me down. I can really fight but I despise of it unless it's inevitable.

01tl4tl

Any type of visable anti theft device such as the club or the brake lock, alarm decals, Lojack decal....the thief wants the easy target and will simply move on to the next car.

It says Panic on the button, to bad thats what state we are in when we need it most!

Practice and see the range on your remote, I scare the neighbor kids by tripping my alarm from inside the house. I told em stay off my driveway, dont play ball near my new car- but still they appear on the security cameras and ....heheheheheh....now the dad comes out to find out why my alarm is going off!

If you keep hitting the lock button on the remote, it will beep and that alone may scare them off, sounds like the James Bond protective explosive anti theft device has started counting down!!

TranTL

2 Kids tried to get in my old 2000 Prelude at a pool hall I was at with 9 of my friends(5 guys and 4 Girls. One kid was chillen a few feet away from my car smoking a cigarette, his so called look out. Other idiot tried to open my door handle a few times but no luck. My friend actually noticed him and was like WTF! I told everybody to stay calm and walk by them to there(friends) car. When he saw us walking towards him the Idiot leaned on my car like he was chillen on his own. Lets just say they weren't able to stand up.

Didn't seem like they had another car to get away or anything......gave them a good ass beating and we stormed off.

ggoldenhawk

A little beat down never hurt anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

SouthernBoy

Listen to what this man is telling you, people. I live in Virginia, perhaps the most lenient of all of the Southern states when it comes to carrying firearms. I carry one concealed every day. And I have had numerous people seek my council on this topic over the years.

Using a firearm to defend your property has limitations. For example, an owner of a jewerly or convenience store might do this. But then again, almost always he is the victim of a robbery when this happens so the property crime is not the issue, but rather his life is the issue here.

Some years ago Lousiana passed a law which was loosely referred to as the "shoot the burgular" law. But even then, I would be very cautious about using deadly force, since laws are one thing and civil suits are an entirely different matter.

When you carry a firearm, you have elevated your responsibility obligations considerably over those who chose not to do this. This means you must avoid, whenever possible, confrontations which might give reason or rise to you having to use deadly force. Confrontations such as traffic altercations with hotheads (don't flip the bird, tailgate, or cuss them out). Actions such as this can, and will most likely, be seen as being provocative and precipitating in nature.. something you most definitely do NOT want to happen when you're armed since it will remove the mantra of innocence on your part.

So don't think for a moment that by just stapping on a handgun, all problems are solved and you are safe and good to go. If you don't act and conduct yourself in kind, it may very well be YOU who comes out on the short end of the stick when the law is finished with you.

Eoanou

Protecting your property doesn't give you the right to kill them, injuring them maybe, but not killing.

Slammed_JDM

yo man what part of Miami do u live i ni since i live in Hialeah and im terrified for my Hooked up Tl to get Snathced...

SouthernBoy

If you're talking about injuring with a deadly weapon, someone has told you a terrible lie. Under NO circumstances should you EVER fire a weapon at someone with the intention to injure. You will most definitely get yourself in some very hot water. Terms like "shoot to wound" or "shoot to kill" are only for TV, novels, and movies. In the real world, you fire to stop. What you want is the quickest secession of hostilities you can muster. Whether or not your assailant dies is of no concern.. you want to stop him and stop him fast.

If you try to wound (injure) an assailant, you open yourself up to legal prosecution as well as civil litigation. Any prosecutor who wants to get you will be able to show that you really didn't believe your life was in imminent danger because you only wounded your attacker. You get the picture. Never draw your weapon unless you're really convinced you will probably need to fire it. And if you do need to fire, make sure you do these things: don't talk, don't hestitate, hit your target, and fire until the thread is nullified.

This is very serious stuff you people are discussing. Please to not offer erroneous information, or worse, information that can get any of our fellow members in deep do-do.

SouthernBoy

And for some of you who like to throw around the term "redneck", please have some respect, if you don't mind. To a white Southern male, that's like calling a black male a nigger when used in a derogatory fashion. Neither term is pleasant, nor do they belong in polite discussion. And both are demeaning and rather repulsive.

Eoanou

It was my own personal opinion, I was simply saying protecting your property doesn't justify you firing a fire-arm at a person, even if your intentions are only to injure them, you simply misunderstood me for saying the law doesn't hold you responsible for shooting someone, which far from the truth.

I also meant, that injuring them with your hands is in my opinion understandable, but that does not mean you should. A fire-arm, on the other hand, is something else, and as you correctly stated, you will be subject to the most severe criminal offenses and civil lawsuits.

SouthernBoy

Since I wasn't certain as to whether or not you had meant injuring with a weapon, I qualified my text with the assumption that maybe you had. I apologize for any misunderstanding, sir and assure you that no admonishment was intended.

Laws regarding the use of deadly force do vary some across the country, particularly with the recent adoption in some states of Castle Doctrines. But generally speaking, they still revolve around one's perception of the danger and its criticality. What does vary a lot is how those laws are impressed upon the victim after the fact. Using deadly force in, say, Wyoming is not likely to result in the same treatment as it might in Massachusetts. The political climate and demographics of these areas differs a bit.

Basically, there are three factors to consider (in no particular order): intent, proximity, and ability. Is there or has there been demonstrated the intent to do serious harm or worse? Is the assailant(s) within a reasonable distance to carry out the threat? Does the assailant(s) have the ability to enforce the threat (a weapon, several attackers, size, etc.)?

Even in states which have no "duty to retreat" laws, it is usually in your better interest to retreat IF you can do so safely and without putting yourself in danger with such a move. The only time I would say you should never retreat (unless the law requires it) is when you are in your home or on your property.

"Castle Doctrine" laws, as in the recent one passed in Florida, are wonderful aids to victims of criminal attack. The Florida law institutes no duty to retreat, allows the use of deadly force against carjackings, and allows the homeowner to assume the worse case scenario when home invasions or breakins occur (he can use deadly force without having first to be certain the criminal is armed). It also has the added protection that if a victim does use deadly force and it is justifiable, he cannot be prosecuted nor can he be sued. (If I am wrong in any of this, please your Floridians, correct me).

In closing, there is a whole mess of claptrap surrounding the use of deadly force. One of the worse examples of this is the advice, "just make sure that if you shoot him outside, drag him inside before the police get there". This is a bunch of hogwash. You can bet you'll get in a legal mess if you ever do something like this. The CSI team will pick this one up right away. There are others that involve things such as "a .45 will blow a man off of his feet", or "a .44 Magnum will blow a man's head off" or you name it. All of it's crap and can get someone hurt or worse if they listen to it.

Good Lord, I've been carrying on too much. Sorry people. One of my favorite topics.

07 TL-S

Law always starts debates and we could all sit here and debate this issue about "when deadly force is justified" for months, but it all comes down to "situation". What I mean by that is, although the crimes being commited may be the same every situation in the crime is different. My initial response was meant for the OP and in response to the 2nd post, because based on the OP's story, deadly force would not have been justified because of the subjects fleeing when the OP yelled at them. Now there have been a few others in here that have thrown a little extra into the situation and in some cases deadly force would be justified and in others would not be justified. Again it all comes down to the situation.

Now to throw some confusion into this debate about using deadly force, there is a fine line about when using deadly force is justified and when deadly force is no longer justified and turns into retaliation.

01tl4tl

The best and safest bet, nearly 100%, is to assume that anyone- especially a group of people- appearing to want to do bad things- besides having sharpened screwdrivers and knives, just figure at least one or all of them are armed with GUNS and have no issue with blowing you away. Half their friends are in the system already so not a problem to them, they will kill you just for the recognition they get "Some Dumass tried to stop us, we put 3 in his head and then shot his nuts off after he was down." "Cool Man, you a gangsta"

Insure your car against theft, use a club and an auto brake, put that special plastic inside the windows that makes them very break resistant, get an second alarm

DO ANYTHING but chase guys down the street.

Kmart security tried that yesterday here and got sliced and wrestled by 3 guys. He did not come out on the better end of the deal , and this was a big guy with security training.

In the end, as much as we love our cars, they are still , just STUFF, and can be replaced.

Your life can be forever altered after your emergency surgery for damage to spleen and kidneys that will be inflicted in a fight.

###Confession: 5 years ago I heard my Nissan Maxima alarm go off at 2am and went outside with my million candlepower spotlight to have a look.
Broken passenger window, door open.
I walk down the street (in my bathrobe and slippers-very threatening you know) and spot a youth wearing a backpack, walking like he is going to school....at 2 in the morning.

Me: Hands up! Stop! Hands Up!
Him: Casually continue walking
Neighbor from window "Did you call 911 yet?"

a good point always do that FIRST and tell them what you are wearing to avoid being put in cuffs

Me: Bring the Dogs!!! Bring The dogs!!!!
Him: Disappears around corner, I cant keep up

Cops arrrive get description and 1 hour later return with the backpack he was wearing, put contents on hood of car, all my stuff, my neighbors stuff and a BIG screwdriver and BIG Hammer- Either of which he could have easily taken my life with

Cops said he kept working right on down the next several streets like it was no big deal and was in the act when they rolled up on him.

He didnt even care, who knows what drugs he was on

Arrested 18 year old male!!

The funny part was he had a shopping list of things to steal- his christmas shopping I guess!

KJSmitty

I guess it would be safe to say you dislike Jeff Foxworthy's sense of humor then.......... :-)

As for comparing the "likeness" of the R word to the N word,,,,

palmultiacura

I was speaking to a local police officer about "packing heat". He recommended the following website: http://www.packing.org/

The site has the detailed laws for each state...

With such a serious topic (which involves life AND death) those who decide to exercise thier constitutional right to CCW carry should read the actual laws of thier state.

mike03a3

That's an understatement. Here in Virginia you may not use deadly force to protect property at all. In fact, you may only use deadly force to protect yourself or your immediate family from the threat of imminent harm. You can't use deadly force to protect others, the theory being that you have no way to properly evaluate the circumstances. The apparent aggressor may be an undercover cop trying to subdue a fleeing felon.

Virginia is extremely friendly to the right to carry, both in the open and concealed (with a CCW). But the law is very strict about the use of deadly force, as it should be.

(Does anyone else think it odd so many of us TL owners also own/carry guns?)

SouthernBoy

I can laugh at his humor just like anyone else, but he does feed the types who look down on so-called "rednecks", giving them cause to think as they do. So I tend to cringe when I hear or read his stuff. Actually, I'm not at all thinned skinned and I certainly am politically INcorrect. I think the same thing about Chris Rock, though a bit worse since his foul language is not to my liking. Yes, it is part of his act, but I have also heard him make some racist statements, so I'm not so sure about what is an act and what is heart-felt.

Your statement, "As for comparing the "likeness" of the R word to the N word" could confirm my suspicion that by writing this, you are a little more reluctant to use the word "nigger" than you would were you to use the word "redneck". This is no indictment or reflection on your character, but rather a sign of the times. We walk on egg shells for fear of offending "protected" classes (God I hate that phrase), but take free reign when it comes to bashing whites. This just tends to continue the separation and underlying friction between the races and feeds the "us versus them" scenario. I would rather we think of our selves as Americans, not white Americans or African Americans.. just Americans.

Really, it all boils down to intent. If a person of one race calls someone another race a derogatory term, such as the two in question, I would bet it's almost always done with ill intentions. However, it's not uncommon to hear blacks and whites call each other these terms and worse.

As I said, for me, I find both of these terms to be disrespectful and demeaning and not those which I would use. I can tell you one thing. When I was a kid, if I ever called a black person something like this, I would have had my mouth washed out with soap, gotten a serious beating, and would have been sent to my bedroom for the remainder of the day with no dinner. My mom was very big on showing people respect and dignity and if my brother or I strayed, there was hell to pay.

Yep, I think we have lost a lot of respect in the way we treat our fellow countrymen and civility is lacking as well. Kinda sad, don't you think?

SouthernBoy

I have been a member of this site for sometime now. If you peruse the site, you'll see my handle (same as on this site). Plus I have a copy of Virginia law as it relates to CCW (concealed carry).

Yes, this is a very serious topic and at first, I was a little remiss for advancing the discussion. But you know, we all are enthusiasts and we own a very nice machine in the TL. This tends to reflect out economic station in life to others and some of those others could be people not so true of character as we.

So in retrospect, I believe this topic is not only interesting, but is spot on for this site. Who knows.... one of the members could wind up using some of the information garnished from these discussions.

As for carrying a concealed weapon, there are so many areas to cover. I have been part of the gun culture for my entire adult life. I am very familiar and comfortable with firearms... especially handguns. For those who might be considering carrying a handgun and who have little or not experience, I would offer these suggestions.

Get quality training in the safe use and carry of a firearms. The NRA is probably the best source here.

Learn the language. There are many things that irk serious gun people. Movie depictions of firearms use is one. Extreme exagerations, another. Myths. You name it. And one of these are misnomers. People call magazines "clips". They call rounds (or ammunition) bullets. They use terms like "assault weapon" to describe non-assault weapons. The call revolvers, "pistols". And so on.

Learn weapons. Know what a semi-automatic single action pistol is. Or a double action only semi-auto pistol. Learn about calibers.

Don't rush your purchase. Unless circumstances are extreme or unusual, spend time learning about the various choices and visit gun shows and dealers to handle weapons, ask questions, and see what "fits". By the way, just because someone works at a gun shop does not mean they are all-knowing about guns. They can, and sometimes are, just as ill-informed as the general population.

Spend time of the range. It's one thing to buy a firearm. It's another to shoot it. So do a lot of shooting. Get familiar with your gun(s) until they become an extension of you.

Learn the laws. Know what is allowed, not allowed, and expected in your state. When in doubt and you can't seem to find the answer, err on the side of caution. There is usually only room for one mistake in this.

Change your demeanor. When you carry a firearm, you take upon yourself a higher level of responsibility than does the general public. This is for the simple reason that you have on your person the means to seriously injure or kill someone. TAKE THIS VERY SERIOUSLY. I cannot stress this enough. This not TV or a video game. This is real and the consequences are just as real. Be the good guy.

Always, always operate in condition yellow or better. Never go outside, especially when armed, in condition white. If you don't know the color conditions, learn them. The operating state: Always be aware of your surroundings.

Finally, don't do anything stupid. When you chose to carry, you enter into a fraternity of people who are dependent upon each other's actions. Foolishness, carelessness, and outright illegal actions affect the rest of us. Please be cognizant of your fellow carriers.

Don't become Charles Bronson (the movie, Death Wish). The liberal press is salvating to report things like this. Besides, you could get yourself killed.


There is more, but I suppose that's enough for now.

SouthernBoy

I suspect you may be in error on a few things here. I know that some property can be protected with deadly force. An example would be a merchant protecting his receipts or his inventory (say a jeweler). But that may also be due to the fact that he could be the victim of a robbery which is not a burglery.

An example of protecting private property might be this. You wake up at 2:00AM to hear some noise in the back of your house. You go to a window and see someone throwing gasoline on your house in preparation of setting it ablaze. Your use of deadly force in this case would almost certainly be justified.

Also, numerous the "Armed Citizen" (a monthly report in NRA publications) has had situations where people have used force of arms and the police chief or prosecutor has made statements to the effect that the victim has the right to defend his property.

And I am almost certain you can use deadly force to defend others. The problem here is like you stated. Unless you know the situation, you could be opening yourself up to serious legal problems.

As far as using deadly force to protect yourself in Virginia, the law is more liberal than many places. You only need to perceive the threat as being imminent and grave. This leaves the door open a bit by taking the time element out of the equation. That is to say, if you wait too long to make sure this person is armed and about to do you serious harm, it could be too late.

This is worth looking in to, though. Thanks for your input.

ThreePointTwoTeeEl

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=csmeance]4. FL does allow you to carry a gun to kill people if you feel threatened.QUOTE]

LOL....haha thats too funny...to kill? how bout maybe injure first, and then kill if injuring does nothing.

SouthernBoy

Here's a few things I just found.

Virginia has no law on deadly force, per se. Instead Virginia covers deadly force with case law and common law.

Basically a person may stand his ground as long as he was not a part of the initial confrontation. If he was part of the initial confrontation, then he must retreat as far as possible and announce his intentions to leave the confrontation before he can use deadly force to defend himself.

An innocent third party can also be defended with deadly force.

Deadly force can only be used against deadly force, where the victim could be killed or greviously injured.

SouthernBoy

[QUOTE=ThreePointTwoTeeEl]I wrote earlier that under no circumstances should you ever try to injure someone if your life is in danger. Neither should you be concerned with killing them. The operative word is "stop". You want to stop them from continuing their attack and do this as quickly as possible.

Trying to shoot someone in the legs or arms only works in the movies. You do not want to enter into this picture.

KJSmitty

Completely agree.

Now, back to our original programming :-).....?

calgary2800

I've only been to St. Louis once and let me tell ya, I was rather unimpressed. The entire drive from the airport to my downtown hotel was ugly. That northside is nasty. My least favorite Midwest city.

mike03a3

I'm glad to see you did the research and no longer believe that you can defend property with deadly force in Virginia. I did a little research myself and discovered that there is recent case law that goes even further, ruling that you may not even threaten the use of deadly force [e.g. brandish a firearm] in order to protect property.

mike03a3

It's off-topic a bit, but here's a self-defense story you all may find amusing.

Many years ago a friend and I attended the Maryland Arms Collector's antique arms show at the Armory in downtown Baltimore. It was a cold, damp and drizzly March, and dark by the time the show ended and we headed back to the car. My friend Don was wearing a long, full, hooded wool Basque shepherd's cloak to keep warm, and to keep his purchase dry. As we passed through an underpass, a young guy stepped out of the shadows, produced a knife, and demanded our wallets.

I briefly wondered about the wisdom of using a knife while trying to rob people leaving a gun show, and why he thought we'd be a good pair to approach. I'm pretty big, but look like a midget next to Don who's all of 6-7 and 300 lbs of muscle. Then it got really amusing. The kid, who is getting agitated that we aren't obviously scared, takes another step closer and threatens to cut us.

So Don whips out his latest purchase from under the cloak - a mint condition Model 1850 Foot Officer's Saber.

Man, could that kid run fast!

SouthernBoy

Actually the demeaning term for black people has its origins in a simple mispronunciation, or if you will, a colloquialism. I had a grandmother by marriage who passed away in 1979 at the age of 96. She would refer to black people many times as "nigras" which was her way of pronouncing "negro" (she was from central Virginia, around the Chancellorsville area). Her use of this term was simply the way she pronounced a perfectly legitimate noun.. nothing derogatory there.

Well you can see how, over the years from the mid 1800's, "nigra" evolved into something else for those who were of a mind to demean. For northerners, I suspect the migration of this word may have taken a different path to what we have today.

You know there are jerks and a--holes in all races. Frankly some people deserve being called some of these terms due to their actions and manner. But I firmly believe that most Americans are good and decent people, regardless of their color. And as such, they deserve respect and consideration. One weekday morning in September, 2001, I stopped by a McDonald's in Manassas for a quick breakfast. The place was very busy and by the time I received my order, there was no place to sit. Looking around for a seat, I noticed a small, slender black lady with all grey hair waving her hand in my general direction. I looked around and suddenly realized that she was waving at me to come sit with her and have my meal.

For the next 20+ minutes, I had breakfast with an angel. She was simply a wonderful lady. Well spoken, kind and polite, she really made my day. Hell, she made her place in my memory forever. I often think of her and hope she is doing well. I know God has a place for this special lady.

SouthernBoy

Yeah, crazy and confusing. Like I wrote previously, I know of a number of uses of deadly force in Virginia where the police chief and/or prosecutor made statements to the effect that defending one's property was Ok.

Maybe a call to someone who really knows this might be in order.

BYW, I also saw the article you mentioned about brandishing. Here's an interesting scenario. Recall the example I gave of someone splashing the back of your house with gasoline in preparation of setting it afire. Now Virginia has no duty to retreat, so you do not have to leave your home before using deadly force. And while the perp is not splashing you with the gas, he is still in possession and use of a deadly weapon which could utimately kill you and your family. So if you shoot him, what do you think? Justified or not?

I know of a case in Northern Virginia (Springfield I think) where a homeowner heard some noises coming from some part of his house. He was either in the military at the time, or a retired officer (don't remember which). He went to investigate with his 1911 .45 and found two teenagers dismantling some stereo equipment. He opened fire, killing both. No charges were filled against the homeowner in this case. This took place about 35 years ago.

SouthernBoy

Oh BTW.. for all of you good people in the Norhtern Virginia area, C&E is holding another gun show January 5th, 6th, and 7th at the Dulles Expo Center. Good time to buy more.

mike03a3

Well, my research lead me to court cases where the appeals court opinion upholding the lower court certainly made it clear that you cannot use deadly force to defend mere property - you can only use deadly force to meet deadly force. This is completely consistant with the police chief who taught the concealed carry course I took.

Being IN your own home is another matter entirely. While Virginia has no castle doctrine, the case law certainly supports the notion that you can more readily use deadly force to defend yourself and family from threats to your safety in your home. Personally, I would think that shooting someone who is in the process of setting fire to the house I'm in represents a threat that I can reasonably consider life-threatening.

SouthernBoy

Yep. Since Virginia has no duty to retreat law, you may stand your ground anyplace where you have a right to be present. Parking lots, bike paths, you name it.

Here's another scenario. Suppose you come out of a mall and see two surly guys attempting to enter your car. You're carrying concealed and you yell at them, thinking that the attention will cause them to take off. However instead, the start running towards you. They are not displaying any weapons but their intent against your person is obvious to you. You pull down on them, shouting at the same time to "stop and leave me alone". But they continue coming at you. What do you do?

You open fire. Two men against one is a disparity of force. They can do one heck of a lot of damage in short order. Now suppose it's just one guy, about the same age and build as you. This time, you have a dilemma. The danger here is this. Since you have not drawn your weapon, he doesn't know you're armed. He attacks you and in the scuffle, he discovers you have a holstered gun. Now his focus is getting the gun away from you to do who knows what with it. Should you shoot him as he's coming at you? This could be a hard sell to a prosecutor/jury. Do you wrestle with him and hope he doesn't gain control of your weapon? For times like this, your best bet is most likely a spray. Pepper or better yet, CS may be your best friend here.

B18DelSolT

I would look at it this way, If you have low miles, Then i would say its a down payment on a 2007 Type-S

YeuEmMaiMai

immobilizers are enoguh to deterr most theives since they want to joy ride...

people who want the car for parts usually have the means to defeat the security they may encounter

most cars stolen that have anti theft use tow truck to take car away as it appears legit

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

While I can see the justification of using deadly force against 2 burly guys running at you, I can't see it being justified using deadly force against one person, the same size and age as you. If I were a prosecutor, (in this scenario) I would argue there is no imminent threat of great bodily harm or death thus no reason to respond with deadly force.
The dilemma about whether or not this person will wrestle the gun away from you or being the victim of prosecutorial misconduct is why I have chosen not to get a license. Obviously, this is highly subjective and I surely don't want to discuss the pros and cons of carrying a weapon- just wanted to answer your question IMO.

cjw2001

Easy, if you leave the valet key in the glove box -- the dealer often leaves this in the handy little holder in the manual. (break window, use valet key to drive away.) Never leave the valet key in the car. The immobilizer won't due any good if they have the valet key.

jesuswalks

Ye in miami im always scared they are going 2 steal my new TSX...

RVC

Ha...I wish someone would steal my TL.

MiaQbn23

Where do you live? I'll steal your navi! lol j/k