thegre8tone

Damn, here analog_c, i meant digital_b, thought the 'Powered By Honda' sticker he just put on gave him an extra 10HP...He thought for sure it would put his TL over the M3...

kidd808

I have a 330i 6spd w/ Sport and Prem packs and my sis has an '04 TL 6spd so i just wanted to fill in my .02.

TL - THE GOOD: So much more standard stuff, absolutely outstanding sound system, smooth, smooth riding, quiet, very tight gearbox w/ short throws, spacious cabin, rear a/c vents, neat dash lighting. 33k
THE BAD: The car feels heavy, you can tell it pushes in the corners, regardless of speed, dives when braking, some torque steer on bumpy / slick surfaces - could be the LSD?

330i: THE GOOD - overall handling feel is just so solid and composed - so balanced. almost zero brake dive, i simulated a panic stop on my test drive and this was my epiphany which converted me to BMW (had a gsr and cls previously), seats in bmw are better bolstered, nice raspy exhaust, natural brown leather, myrtle wood along w/ the black dash just kicks..
THE BAD - H/K sound system sounds terrible, CD skips w/ every bump in the road. BMW nickels and dimes you for every feature, clutch engagement a little higher than TL, not as easy to modulate, shifter throws a bit longer too.

Both cars are awesome though, for the money the TL is hard to beat, but, keep in mind that you can lease a 330i, as did i, for very little as the money factors BMW uses are very low, or at least they were last year. I got mine for 500/mo 12k/yr

tms

I have both........2003 BMW 330i loaded up with all options.....and the TL A-Spec. It depends on what you want. My wife drives the BMW....it's more of a girly car plus the damn thing will beat the hell out of you on a trip. If you live around 2 lane roads and you want the very stiff ride......take it in the shop all the time.....replace tires every 12K miles........windows falling down in the doors.....(this has happened to me 3 times).........plus replaced the rear axle.........leather stinks after a year........want to look like "I am Important".......go with the BMW. My choice is the TL. I have had 7 Acura's and never every had any trouble out of them..........oh by the way the TL will blow the doors off the 330i .

Vtecne

As a former owner of a 2001 330Ci (SP/PP/HK/Xenon). I can say the BMW is the better car, but for the money I rather buy the TL (I have an 04 with Navi). If the BMW and the TL were the same price, I would have purchased the BMW. But I could not justify buying a car with so little options for $42k Plus tax tag and title. The TL is cruiser made for comfort not for street racing, the BMW 3 series is an entry sports car, with a tease, because you are getting bottom of the line (Other BMW owners will let you know that too). In short cars depreciate every day they never retain their value (Even a Ferrari looses value), the question you have to ask your self is "How much is it worth to me?" It can be the difference of a nice Vacation in the Cayman Islands (every year you own the car), a new Rolex or just having money in your pocket to buy what ever you want whenever you want (Plasma TV). If you want speed and handling just by a motorcycle. After owning a BMW I could not justify buying another one. Let's not forget the arrogant people who work at BMW after the car is 1 year old the BMW service people will treat you and the car like crap “Guaranteed”.
Every time I dropped off the car for service I would find a new scratch and a ding (And nobody ever feces up it). If you never owned a BMW, it is an experience both Good and bad. Also pay attention to road and you will see tons of Pimped out BMW 3 series. The current BMW 3 series was introduced in 1999 and has not had a major upgrade since 2000 when the 330s were introduced (only minor changes but the interiors look the same). My .02 cents worth. Good Luck.

Neil

VQ35DE

Is your Bimmer a 5MT? Performance Pkg? I'm asking because you stated, "the TL will blow the doors off the 330i" and the 330i 5MT PP is nearly as quick as the E36 M3 5MT; some of which have hit 13.9sec ETs.

Just curious.

Aegir

Wish I did. That's the way to do it. These cars should be evaluated from behind the steering wheel, not behind a keyboard.

dsc888

Neil,

feces=poopies :lol1: But then again, that may be how BMW treats their customers after a while. Just thought I point out your silly typo. :toothless

dsc888

Vtecne

LOL sorry.....You know what I mean.....I typed it too fast......

Neil

MADCAT

I 2nd that. And the BMW sales people are a bunch of arrogant morons! As if they have degrees in medicine.

tms

It's a 5MT.......and it does have the PP........but it's not as quick. It does handle nice....but that's about it.

KrgTL04

Ok, if you don't mind me asking...why the HELL do you hang out on this site? After reading your posts, it's obvious you don't like the TL.

Can't find anything better to do with your time?

thegre8tone

No, it's not that I don't like the TL...It's some forum members here that thinks the TL is better than all the cars on the road...That's fine, it's the reason they bought the car and there's nothing wrong spending ~$33K on a souped up Accord...But don't start ragging on other cars and making generalizations performance and reliability, because you'll get all the BMW and Infiniti owners here to set the record straight. It is what it is, TL is the ultimate Accord...BTW, don't get your panties all bunched up because of that comment

TLud

I'm guessing you don't actually have the performance package (btw it's ZHP; PP refers to the Premium Package) because it doesn't come with a 5MT. It's a 6 speed. And trust me, it is faster than a TL. I watched my friend put down a 14.15 second run in the quarter mile in his stock 330i ZHP. TL is a mid to high 14 second car.

thegre8tone

That's how the TL beat the 330zhp, the 330 had 5mt :rocketwho

apwalsh

I see you are readily familiar with childrens stories.... figures

Xpditor

And BMW is the ultimate Mini-Cooper.

Being the ultimate Accord is a great compliment to Acura.

If it's the best product of the highest quality auto maker in the world, that can't be a bad thing.

Zeuser

Well unfortunately for you, everyone is putting down the euros these days. It's very clear that the high priced euros are losing the war.

So while the TL isn't the best thing on the road, it's defintely better than the 3 series BMW to which it's often compared (M3 excluded). If you set aside the wonderful 3 series handling and other performance numbers for a moment and start looking at the everyday costs of ownership vs. what you get in return, you'll understand why I keep seeing 3 series owners popping into Acura dealerships and trading in for a new TL.

PS: My co-worker now wants to get rid of his 325 in favor of a TL. In Canada a well optioned 325 is still more expensive than the TL. And he hates his car. Too many problems, too small, to expensive to maintain.

Aegir

...and several people have run 14.2 in the TL. Those weren't A-Spec cars, and they were new. With good traction and better tires (A-Spec) the car will produce faster times - based on the 98-99mph trap speeds. There are always these silly variables in these benchtop racing discussions...

No denying the things the 330i does well - and there are many. It is fast, nimble, well-balanced, and fun to drive. It's a great car.

thegre8tone

No, being an Accord it not the a bad compliment...But last time I checked, the Accord wasn't know for it's performance nor luxury...

Nice generalization, last time I checked JD Powers, Lexus up top...

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4854302/

And Acura is above Chevrolet and below Volvo...

TLud

Overly broad generalizations like this are ridiculous and don't really further any sort of meaningful dialogue on the subject.

That's a lot to just "set aside." It's the reason so many people buy 3 series. I'm not saying that the 3er is a better value than the TL, but if you run a comparison on Intellichoice, you'd be surprised at how the 3 series stacks up against the TL in terms of cost of ownership, especially the 325:

Acura TL total 5 year cost of ownership: $39,608
Depreciation: $17,745
Financing: $4,427
Insurance: $8,980
State fees: $596
Fuel: $5,334
Maintenance: $1,879
Repairs: $647

BMW 330i total 5 year cost of ownership: $41,238
Depreciation: $17,070
Financing: $4,461
Insurance: $10,565
State Fees: $596
Fuel: $5,152
Maintenance: $2,033
Repairs: $1,361

This doesn't even include BMW's free scheduled maintenance. Is the BMW's better performance worth the $1,600 difference in cost of ownership? That's a personal decision.

I just dislike it when people make exagerative generalizations based on their limited experience. Is the TL a better value and more reliable? Overall, yes, but to hear you talk, the BMW is a piece of crap, which it clearly isn't.

thegre8tone

BTW, below Infiniti and BMW

1SICKLEX

Honda is close but not near Toyota. And Lexus is way above Acura. I think saying a BMW is unreliable and has sorry quality cannot come from any TL owner. As the TL has more than it's share of problems from trannies to rattles to silly things like a headliner drooping.

And all this 3 bashing is sad, as the 3 is what all other cars want to be (IS, TL, G35). They all are good cars. Maybe a lil upset the 325 spanked the new TL in Car and Driver? If u look at the scores, the TL got most of it's points for comfort and the sedan qualities, not driving ones.

The TL is also a good size bigger than the 3 and smaller than the 5. Acura is good at avoiding head on comparisons.

330 vs TL both good cars, it's a matter of which one u like better. Not that one is better.

iNteGraz92

cough, he was talking about in America. the rsx, tsx, tl and legend have no equivalant on the honda branded side. they may share platforms, but they are not rebadged versions of one another. and i thought everyone knew the tsx was the european accord.

souped up accord :lol2: the only thing it shares with the accord is the platform it's based on. and guess what, you're on a TL forum. why do you act surprised when people like to praise it? are you stupid or something? also, don't get YOUR panties in a bunch just because bimmers ARE overpriced. the only thing you can say is that they handle good. LOL.

iNteGraz92

german reliability sucks!
my 98 3.2TL (made in japan ) has had no tranny/engine problems, or rattles for 100,000 miles. :thefinger

1SICKLEX

Dude, the RSX and Legend are Hondas overseas. They are Acuras here. The TSX is an Euro Accord. The TL is not sold anywhere but here.

Same as Toyotas sold in Japan badged as Lexus here. The difference is only the ES/RX shares platforms with a Toyota.

Bobzmcishl

At the risk of beating a dead horse, the 325 is horsepower deficient and basically a subcompact. The 330 is a 40k car. For less than 32k I get a fully optioned TL that is more reliable than BMW and more comfortable, plus I get 8k more in my pocket.

1SICKLEX

You also get FWD, a car based on the Accord and no prestige. Both have trade-offs. 32k is a good deal for a TL and u get more gizmos and a newer designed car. Trade-offs.

thegre8tone

No, I'm not stupid, but you're stupid enough to prove my point, DUMBASS :toothless

thegre8tone

I guess JD Edwards f'd up by putting Acura right above Chevy and well below BMW... :thefinger :thefinger

Zeuser

Where the heck did you get those numbers? In Canada a 325i is $10K more than a TL when similarly equipped, parts cost at least 50% more and insurance is double that of the TL.... well.... almost.

And you're comparing a 330i, not a 325i. That's even worse!

PS:The 3 series is the only thing left in the BMW inventory that doesn't make me want to vomit!

TLud

You know what speaks volumes about these two cars? Go to bimmerfest.com and try to find a thread comparing the 3er to the TL. You may find one, but even if you do, 10 bucks says it won't knock the TL. Why? Because they don't have to rip on any other car to feel good about driving their bimmer.

I like comparo threads when they're rational discussions among car enthusiasts about the different features and specs of their cars, but bashing, name calling, and baseless jabs at other cars? It's not gonna make your car handle any better, accellerate any faster, or be more reliable. It's not gonna make me like my car any less. The fact that some of you obviously feel so insecure about your cars is only going to make me like mine that much more.

thegre8tone

He got those from intellchoice as stated in his reply...Just one question though, are you saying that a 325 is more expensive to maintain compared to the 330?

Zeuser

Probably because CR has the numbers flipped around where Acura rated 3rd in 2003 and BMW rated 21st. I seriously doubt BMW cleaned up it's act that fast. Especially since they still have that 7 series which probably accounts for 300 problems per 100 cars.

http://www.bmwlemon.com/ :thefinger :thefinger :thefinger

thegre8tone

From NHTSA database:

http://www.lemonlaw.com/lemonlist.html

Owned :thefinger :thefinger

Funny I don't see any 3's or G's on there, but the 2004 TL is up there...

TLud

Run a comparison on www.intellichoice.com. That's where the numbers are from. If you've ever tried to buy a used bmw, you'll know that they hold their value really well, so even though you'll pay more in the beginning, you'll also be able to get a lot of that back at the end when you sell it. Yeah, parts are a little expensive, but you're good as long as you're under the 5 year warranty. Insurance on the 4-door 3er isn't bad at all (10-15% more). I had to price shop insurance for both cars Of course, the insurance on my coupe is gonna be a b*&% if it ever gets here.

I'm not sure what the exchange rate is between US and Canadian dollars, but my 330Ci (performance package, leather, moonroof, xenons, bluetooth) was only $41k out the door. The a-spec TL I had on order was just under $40k out the door.

I agree 100%. The new 5 makes me want to cry every time I see it.

Zeuser

You're quoting a lawyer's site! :toothless:

TL_2004_CA

this topic has been discussed soo many times..here is the truth..bmw is the PERFORMANCE car! if you want a car that is a TRUE performer - a car that will give you the ultimate buying experience and you have the extra 5K-10K, then this car if for you, but if you are lookin for a car that is all around a great value - a car that gives you power, luxury, a GREAT interior and hi tech gadgets, a not a bad driving experience - the TL is the clear winner

my $.02

thegre8tone

Read where they got the data...Hello anybody home? In case you didn't understand NHTSA, it stands for National Highway for Traffic Safety Administration...If you don't, you'll get to know it becase that's where the transmission recall will be issued from

Zeuser

That I have no clue. Not sure if it's more than a 330i. But the 325i is expensive to maintain as my co-worker can confirm that fact. I've seen the outrageous bills: $1000+ (parts + labour) to replace the rear diff that failed.

TLud

A rear differential will run you upwards of $1,000+ on mosts cars. It's an expensive part and labor intensive.

The surprising thing is that I see more complaints about problems on this forum than I do on bimmerfest, for example. Of course, you can't go off of one person's problems or even off an entire forum's problems--not representative of the whole group. Heck, the 2000 Toyota that I'm getting rid of has had more damn problems than a Yugo.

Of course, I understand that just one relative's or friend's bad experience with a car can totally sour a person against that car. Ask me why I'll never buy a Toyota truck!