I think some people have misunderstood my post in this thread, and if so, I apologize.

I did not mean to suggest there is anything wrong with asking for help, nor that those more experienced with this forum should act disdainfully towards newbies.

Artwork's original question is an important one for lots of people.

But, it is a question that has been asked so many times that it would actually be TO HIS ADVANTAGE to do a search, because not many people are going to respond to that same question again and again.

NewCar, you asked about the hypothetical person walking into a room and wanting a question answered right away. Makes sense, I agree with you.

Now, however, imagine that you are one of the people who has been in the room for a while. Let's say it's a party and you and I are having a beer together in a corner. A new guest comes in and says, "Can you all each tell me what you paid for your cool TL's parked outside?"

So a bunch of people, in turn, give their info.

Five minutes later, another new guy walks in and asks the same question. Again some people respond.

After the third or fourth such person, the number of responses is decreasing, and the number of people rolling their eyes at the question is rising. Not because the question isn't a good one - it is - but because we're getting a little tired of it.

You and I decide we need another beerr.

Someone being a little more industrious puts up a sign: SEARCH HERE FOR COMMON QUESTIONS.

(Okay, at an actual party that would be weird, but in an Internet forum - any forum - not only is it not weird, it's well understood. Most people who use the Internet even sporadically know that sites will have FAQs and searches and so on.)

So now the sign is up, and most people pay heed to it, and those of us at the party chit chat about other things. But periodically someone stills comes in, looks around, and says, Screw that, these people should just answer my question. So he shouts out, "Hey, everyone, how much did you all pay for your gorgeous TL's parked out there?"

A few people still answer, but someone else says, "Dude, welcome, but read the sign and do a search."

The point of my prior post was not to attack Artwork for being here nor for asking that question. It was to wonder why it is that when someone behaves in a way that's MAYBE, just MAYBE, a little off protocol, nowadays it seems the person who tries to suggest an alternative is the one taken to task and considered rude. Maybe this forum isn't the best example of that, but in general it seems a sad state of affairs in our society.

New Car, you also said, "Call me lazy, but..." Do you really want to be called lazy or considered lazy? Too many people nowadays are perfectly willing to be lazy. Again, maybe that doesn't really matter so much in this forum and maybe Skeedatl and I are making too much of all this. I'll give you that much. I'm willing to be a big man and say maybe I should have just shut up and moved on instead of posting anything at all.

But even if it doesn't matter much in this forum, it sure does matter a whole lot in general. Don't be lazy.

And it wouldn't hurt if Artwork at least would say, "Well, I may not entirely agree with you guys, but maybe you're right that I could have done a little more searching first."

Doesn't seem to me like anyone nowadays ever wants to take any responsibility for anything. Everything is always someone else's fault.

Sigh.

 

And by the way Artwork, in case you need help with searching, I tried putting this into the search engine:

"how much did you pay" (without the quotes)

I'm not very good at these things and that has to be about the least sophisticated strategy imaginable. But on the first two pages of results (which took a minute or two) there were 3-4 threads (besides this one ) whose titles were clearly about the same thing.

So give that a shot if you're still looking for answers. Hope it helps.

 

I concur. I too have probably made more out of this than needed to be...BUT this thread started with people mentioning kindly that the subject had been covered quite a few times and suggested varying the search terms. Then the apologists showed up wanting to argue with those suggesting the search.

What gets annoying (even though annoying is probably too strong a word) is when you see the same question asked time and time again when there is tons of great information, and more complete information I might add available through search. What is more annoying is when it's obvious someone didn't bother trying to find out on their own, but rather chooses to "bother" others with this repeat question.

I see it like this (sorta like the party example).

You enter a building and there is a directory and a receptionist sitting at the desk. If you want to know where a particular office is...is it quicker to ask the person at the desk? Probably. But it's far easier for the receptionist and everyone else "talking to the receptionist" if you took a little extra time and looked at the directory yourself, saving thread space for questions not answerable by the directory.

And while it may not be "cool" to call someone who won't look at the directory lazy...it's equally or more uncool to criticize someone who points out the existence of the directory and kindly suggests that they use it.

 

Skeet and TL-

You have made your point...please stop posting in this thread all you are doing is adding unwanted posts. I am so tired of reading about how f@!king perfect you are...I could careless, go shit all over someone's else's thread you have done your damage here.

I think I saw a post about TL intrerest rates...go destroy that thread like you have done here.

I did a search for it and I found this...:p

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showt...=intrest+rates

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showt...threadid=75026

 

I agree there are a bunch of threads that would have answered his question, but what amazes me is that people spend more time typing a non-responsive answer when they could have just answered the question with very little effort. Watch, it isn't that hard:

"I have done the research so I know what invoice should be and what MSRP is, but I am curious what people are actually paying."

I paid $30,900 for a SSM/Ebony, 6 spd, HPT, no-nav, plus tags and tax (around $32,500 out the door).

 

Examples of "kindly":

you're a lost cause.

...enjoy being on ignore.

...how f-ing lazy do you have to be to put on others what you could find out easily

how about people use the features of the forum and stop being whiners?

You're just too lazy to look.

 

Artwork - sorry that the thread is wrecked, but it is.

My post was in no way antagonistic to you. It was just my perspective of things, and an apology AND an admission that I should have just kept quiet.

Your response to me is totally off-base and unjustified. You can have the last word if you like, I'm definitely done here.

I'm also far from perfect.

You have a lot of growing up to do.

 

Best comment yet on this subject (the tangent subject that is). And, I concur.

The way I see it is, you have the folks that say use the search (the so-called bad apples). And then you have the folks (like me) that say that's no way to welcome a new member, just answer the guy :argue: What New Car has pointed out to the "bad apples" is that you guys don't get to make the rules!!! So, please quit telling others how to use the forum. Either answer their question or don't answer their question. Your choice. But, remember, it's everybody's forum and YOU DON'T MAKE THE RULES. When you become a mod, you can do that.

BTW - I like the party analogy and agree with a lot of it. I think we all need a beer

HAPPY FRIDAY to all, even the bad apples.

 

I am sorry that I lumped you in with Skeetatl...But my emotions were getting the best of me...I am so frustrated with this thread that I am beinging to lower myself to ugliness and name calling. I have read your posts and I find them mostly constructive. I apoligize if I was a bit out of line, but this thread got very ugly fast. I thought I was asking a question that seemed very straight foward regardless if It had been up for discussion previously.


You might be right about my maturity level, but from my prespective I was very patient in this thread hoping that the debate would end and make way to real constructive comments.

When I read the 20th post about the search fucntion I was clearly annoyed.

Let's please leave the poor horse alone he has been severly beaten and it's not looking good for him...Code Blue rings a bell

 

That's your problem, you think that everyone agrees with you and you are here to moderate, but that is far from the truth.

I don't find repeated threads annoying, I like them. There is always new people and new info posted to them, and the forum keeps going and going.

The thing that I find annoying is YOU constantly repeating yourself (just like the threads you talk of) with the same mindless drivel about searching. Now THAT is annoying, and it hurts the forum as you can clearly see by this thread.

Plus, you were WAY out of line, you had no place in this thread other than to offend people, complain, and totally ruin the new guy's thread.

 

Fotodad:

No -- those weren't the kind comments that he was referring to -- the kind comments were probably the first 5 or 6 responses (I can't remember anymore) to this thread where people (including myself) suggested using the search function as it had been discussed several times before. Everything else beyond that is fairly pointed.


artwork:

Now you know have a slightly better idea of how some of us felt when we saw the same "How much did you pay" thread getting started several times a week.

I'm sorry that my response to your post instigated this drama (and as you can tell, we have two very opinionated camps on this topic) but all that I ask is that you step in our shoes and see how you might feel if the same questions were to come up over and over again.

Somebody pointed out that the other threads would actually be of more value because they've already had responses, and I would tend to agree. Many times if I see a thread with the same/similar title as one I had already read, I'll think I already responded to it and not go in it again. However, it might be a brand new thread and I would have missed contributing to it.

Anyway, for what it's worth -- $33950 ($37076 after taxes and fees) on January 4th for the car that you see in my signature. My answer isn't even relevant anymore since no one can get that pricing in California anymore.


[edit: okay I just noticed that my signature didn't show up for some reason -- I have a 5AT TL w/ Navi in Anthracite/Ebony with the protection package, body side moldings, and all weather mats.]

 

I don't have an answer to your question but I want to be the first to say that I ask questions all the time and DON'T do searches...mainly because I AM too lazy to do a search. I figure it this way, I help people with their problems, so they could help me with mine. If they don't want to, that's what the next button on the top is for.
can't we all just get along? hehe

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lore
[B]Fotodad:

I belong to two other auto forums which I have been a member of for quite some time (well over 500 posts each). Sure, I see redundant posts on a regular basis. It doesn't bother me in the least. I happily reply to newbie, repetitious posts without the least amount of anger or angst. Why would I get angry? I'm a car enthusiast who loves to talk cars, even if it's the same topic. SO WHAT!

You ask to step in "our shoes." I think what might be more appropriate is some folks on this forum need to step into the newbie's (something they once were) shoes and realize this is a person who is probably quite excited about the prospect of purchasing a fine automobile. Are they impatient? Probably. But rather than jumping down their throat with rude, yes, rude, posts, either put your anger aside and help the person out, or SIMPLY DON'T RESPOND. How's that cliche go? If ya can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. Yes, I realize SOME of you were merely suggesting the "search" function as a means to assist. But some of you turned what could have been a valuable acura-tl.com member into someone who possibly feels this forum is laced with the elite who don't or won't tolerate anyone who steps out of line.

I have found this forum to be quite helpul and informative. I realize I am new here. And should I purchase a TL, I do not want to alienate myself or get a reputation as a "whiner" or an "apologist." Will I make some bone-headed mistakes and post a thread which has been discussed? Most likely. Will I misspell words or write a post that make absolutley no sense? Quite likely! But I recognize the value of this forum and the value of all of your wisom and experience.

Wise advise: Walk in other's shoes.

 

This has got to be the worst, most boring thread in TL forums history.

Moderators, please end this torture right now by closing this thread forever!!!!!!!!