Scan Tool Thread (OBD2 OBDII Scanner)
07-27-2022, 12:04 AM
#1
Scan Tool Thread (OBD2 OBDII Scanner)
Let me start with some disclaimers: I'm not a "car guy." I've learned a ton from this forum and using YouTube over the years, but admittedly still don't know jack. Nor will this be an extensive review of the capabilities of different scan tools. I didn't put them through their paces, but instead was evaluating them from a, "would I be happy with this scan tool at this price point." It's definitely more about form over function.
I never knew much about scan tools, but several years ago my '05 TL threw an SRS light on the dash. Acura dealer was more than happy to "diagnose" it for $100+, but that seemed absurd. I then learned there were some Honda Diagnostic Software (HDS) versions out in the wild that I could install on a laptop and buy an Ebay cable to use. Took a while to get the SW cooking, but once it was up, I was able to scan & reset things on my '05 in ways that cheap/generic OBDII tools couldn't. Found the source of the SRS error (an open cirtuit in the seatbelt lock) and took that info to the Acura dealer. Fortunately, they didn't require me to pay a diagnostic fee since I told them exactly what was wrong. But the best part was learning that things like the seatbelt lock come with a lifetime warranty, so they fixed it for FREE.
Fast forward a few years and about a month ago I saw a low mileage Moroccan Red Pearl '08 for sale. So I got my newer laptop out, installed my sketchy HDS version on it, and went to inspect the car. Thought I was so smart: seller would have no idea I had a tool to tell me EVERYTHING going on with his car. Popped the cable in the OBDII port, fired up my HDS SW, and...communication error, failed to connect. WTF? Spent way too much time killing the app & retrying without success. When I got home I hooked up my HDS laptop to my '05. Scanned with no issue. Then I tried on my '07 and, wah-wah-wah, same communication error I'd had when I tried to scan the '08. Clearly my HDS laptop solution was having an issue with the newer '07 & '08 models. I opened a thread about it here, but never got a definitive answer about what changed:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p.../#post16819863
Realizing my HDS setup was now beyond it's useful life, I decided it was time to invest in a good scan tool. But what to purchase? There are a ton of vendors and options in this space. Before I discuss the scan tools I've purchased and played with, here are some general observations...
GENERAL OBSERVATIONS
I've worked in IT for over 2 decades and have been playing with computers and technology for 40+ years. Ya know what strikes me about this scan tool tech? It's really primitive. For $200-400 dollars, you can get a very capable smart phone running the latest OS (iOS or Android), plenty of RAM and storage, modern ports, a quality display, and it can do a TON of other stuff. The same money in the "scan tool" space gets you piece of plastic with cheap circuitry, a lousy display, an old OS (e.g., Android 7.0), limited RAM and storage, and no simple way to export the data it collects. Then these companies take the same innards, put them in slightly modified plastic cases, and simply cripple or expand their capabilities by flipping bits to create different models at different price points. Want to scan 4 systems and reset 5 functions, buy this POS hardware for $200. Want to scan 28 systems and reset 7 functions, buy this nearly identical POS hardware with a few more bits enabled for $400. And so on. It's a total racket!
When you're looking for a scan tool, DON'T get sucked into this marketing mess. Figure out what you actually need and then find a scan tool that meets your requirements. What good is a scanner that can reset 8 different service functions if they're not supported on your year, make, and model? Why pay a premium for "bi-directional" testing features you'll never use, or again, aren't supported on your vehicle? Hey, this one supports scanning "all 28 systems" but then you find out your make & model only has 7 systems to begin with (like the 3g TL's). Email the vendor or manufacturer and ask them specifically which features & functions are supported for your car(s).
When it comes to pricing, at least on Amazon, it literally varies from day to day and seller to seller. Some days I'd look at a listing and it would have X discount. A few days later the price would be different, but you could apply a coupon code to save Y dollars. Over "Prime Days" almost every scanner I'd been looking at was marked down 20%. There are also multiple listings for the same model from different vendors and their prices & deals can be all over the place. If you don't need it immediately, keep your models of interest in different browser tabs and refresh them from time to time to see how their prices fluctuate.
OK, on to the scan tools...
I asked a "car guy" friend for scanner recommendations. He told me he had an Innova 3160g Pro. So I ordered the updated version: 3160RS. Before I describe some other scanners, what follows is my rant/review of this scanner. But please note that I wrote this BEFORE I tried the Foxwell models I'll discuss afterward. It's much lengthier because most of my issues were addressed to their Support email (which apparently isn't monitored). After trying the Foxwell models, I came to appreciate the relative elagance and simplicity of the Innova scanner a lot more, despite my perceived limitations when I had it. So here were my thoughts about this scanner.
INNOVA 3160RS
First off, as a scanner alone, it's very capable and I didn't have any technical issues with it. That said, I think it's important to understand everything that's being marketed to you: the scan tool, the RepairSolutions2 (RS2) software, and the "Support." Here are some bullet points to consider and some things I found annoying:
- If you just want a capable scanner, this one is as good as any other I tried. It picked up and erased codes as needed.
- The RS2 software is hot garbage. To me, it exists primarily as a means to sell you more cr@p. Push this button to buy an extended car warranty. Push this button to buy a "full vehicle history report." Here's a list of parts that "might" fail in the next 12 months or 15K miles. Wanna buy them? Push this button!
- In their videos, on their website, and in the docs included with the scanner, they promote that they have an army of ASE certified techs who will be there for you if you have any questions about the product. They basically claim to have incredible tech support. This is COMPLETE AND UTTER BS! I called the 800 number and got an answering machine. I tried to initiate a Live Chat during business hours but it was unavailable. I emailed support weeks ago and still no reply or even an acknowledgement of my inquiry. I can't fully compare Innova's support to other vendors in this space, but just know that they are completely full of cr@p on their tech support claims. I can say that I emailed Foxwell Support and they did reply rather quickly and thoroughly.
- As soon as you connect the scanner to the vehicle, it initiates a "Quick Scan." But what if I don't want a quick scan and want a thorogh one of a particular system instead. Since their support never answered my email, I'm not certain you need to wait for the automatic "Quick Scan" to complete before you're able to initiate a different one, but it seemed that way to me. At first I was annoyed about this "auto quick scan" feature, but then I realized how useful it would be if you owned a shop or a dealership: you just want to scan a car, get monitor statuses and see if there are any codes as quickly as possible and move on. This scanner is perfect for that.
- However, want to export, email, or save a report you generated in RS2 so you have something you can cut & paste from as you research an issue or simply want to keep a record for historical purposes? Wah, wah, wah: no facility exists to accomplish this. Everything is stored on the scanner or up in the cloud where the RS2 software can access it, but there's no way to print or export it.
- Want to delete or manage the list of reports that have been generated (like the "Quick Scans" it automatically generates every time you connect your scanner)? Wah, wah, wah: not happening.
- Want to cleanly exit the RS2 phone app without logging out of it so it doesn't stay running in the background, and so you don't have to login with your credentials the next time you need it? You know the drill: wah, wah, wah.
- Want to update the firmware on this scanner to the latest code? Cool, just connect it to your computer. But wait, you need a USB 2.0 Mini-B cable to connect it and Innova doesn't provide (at least not in my package) even a cheap one in the box? You are sadly correct! USB 2.0 was standardized 22 years ago, so how many of you have a USB cable with a Mini-B connector on it? I'm surprised there's not a button in the RS2 app that says, "Click here to buy the most basic things you need to fully use your scan tool, suckers!"
- I paid a total of $226.77 including tax and with whatever discounts & coupons were available.
Again, this was the first "real" scanner I'd purchased and was underwhelmed by what I got for my money. However, in hindsight, it's just as good if not better than the next two Foxwell's I tried.
FOXWELL NT624 Elite
- Much like the Innova, this thing was very good at scanning.
- The build quality is crap. It reminds me of a "toy computer" you might buy for a 5 year-old to make them feel like they've got a real one.
- It looks like a touchscreen, but it's not and the display is junk. It's just a glorified menu system where you have to use directional arrows & function keys to navigate.
- Unlike the Innova model above, this Foxwell model will scan "all" systems and supports 5 Reset functions. It also has a facility to save and export a PDF version of its diagnostic reports, but requires you to pop out the included SDHC card and use it with your computer and their FoxAssist software to do so. It works, but it's kludgey.
- Like the Innova, it comes with free "lifetime" updates.
- I paid a total of $263.89 including tax and with whatever discounts & coupons were available.
FOXWELL NT726
- Unlike the NT624 Elite, this scanner has a touchscreen. However, it's more like they stuck an old Android 7.0 phone inside a cheap plastic case. Build quality was definitely better and more solid than the NT624. BTW, Android 7.0 was released almost 6 years ago.
- Mostly same features and functions as the NT624 with a few more reset functions.
- When using this scanner, the battery seemed to drain pretty quickly. Don't know if I just got a unit with a sketchy battery or if that's just the way it is.
- This was getting closer to what I was looking for, but I still wasn't overly impressed or satisfied.
- Seemingly very capable, but from a build quality perspective, still didn't feel it was worth the $242.70 total cost IMHO. There was a promotion that included a free OBD extension cable, but so what.
To this point, I was still miffed that for about $200-250 all I was getting was crappy hardware with somewhat different interfaces. As I said at the top, this is admittedly form over function, but if I'm paying this much for a gadget, I want to feel like I bought something decent. All too often I think we're so mesmerized by the fact that these scan tools are able to get data from the cars WE OWN, and do so without paying exhorbitant dealer fees, that we overlook or excuse what cheaply made devices these actually are. So far, all these scanners left me underwhelmed in this regard. So what next?
Even though they were a bit more expensive, I started looking at tablet type scanners from Autel, LAUNCH, and ThinkCar. Autel seems like the premium/professional brand among them, but probably overkill unless you run a shop. Plus, it seems that when you get above a certain price-point, the scan tool vendors figure that you are a professional mechanic and want to soak you for monthly or annual updates. Total BS. Both the LAUNCH and ThinkCar scanners appeared to be better hardware & displays, but also seemed to be at least $100-150 more than what I'd purchased so far.
But then I stumbled across this brand named MuCar (silly name, but believe the "Mu" is from the Greek alphabet). Don't think I would have ever found them if I hadn't gone to this Amazon listing and scrolled down to read the "From the brand" section which had some pics of MuCar scan tools:
It appears that ThinkTool & MuCar are two brands from the same company (ThinkCar) that is headquartered in China. For example, if you look up ThinkCar's highly reviewed Thinktool Mini, it's nearly identical to the MuCar VO6, but the Thinktool Mini is ~$50-100 more. Additionally, I saw a YT video which said that the ThinkTool Mini leverages the user interface (UI) developed by LAUNCH. Maybe ThinkCar licenses the UI's for their ThinkTool & MuCar brands from LAUNCH? The primary differences between the Thinktool Mini and the MuCar VO6 appear to be that the VO6 doesn't have the hand-strap and can't be expanded to support other ThinkCar peripherals like thermal printers and a bunch of other proprietary (and expensive) hardware. Nothing I care about.
So I ordered a MuCar VO6. First impressions: high quality, cellophane sealed packaging (ironic since the more expensive ThinkCar scan tools look like they're packaged in much cheaper/generic cardboard boxes). As soon as you hold the VO6 in your hands, you realize you're dealing with a completely different level of build quality when compared to the Innova & Foxwell units above. The hi-res display is sharp, bright, and easy to read.
MUCAR VO6
- As mentioned, much better build quality than the Innova or Foxwell models above. It's also ergonomic with the side where the bluetooth dongle is stored also serving as a hand-grip.
- Totally wireless: a bluetooth dongle is elegantly stored inside the Mucor VO6 body.
- Android 10 based OS. About 2.5 years old, but way better than the nearly 6 year old Android 7.0 on the Foxwell device. Note: after looking at some other scan tools like the XTOOL D7, I realized that it's not really the Android OS level that matters. Instead, it's the CPU, memory, and quality of the UI. I say this because scan tools like the XTOOL D7 are actually running Android 5.1.1, but appear to be very fast and extremely capable. But the XTOOL wasn't in my budget and doesn't come with lifetime free upgrades.
- I'm over 50 so my vision ain't what it used to be. Reading the Innova 3160RS was pretty easy because it has a high-contrast backlit LCD screen, but I had difficulty reading the Foxwell scanners without higher magnification glasses.
- The UI on the VO6 is both very intuitive and easy to follow.
- When it autoscans for a VIN, it plays this "slot machine" music as the numbers whir by while gathering the data. A little schticky, but again, not that important.
- MuCar actually provides a printed manual! Not super detailed, but I'm a dinosaur so I appreciate such things.
- Everything worked exactly as I expected it should. All the setup instructions were clear and I didn't have any issues following them. The only caveat: the wall power connector has a European adapter plug by default. It does include a US adapter, however, it wasn't clear to me how to change them and couldn't find anything in the documentation. After trying to unscrew it without success, I noticed there was a tiny release button on the power connecter. Once depressed, the Euro plug is easily swapped with the US one.
- Doing updates was a breeze
- Lifetime scanning updates are free, however, if you want bi-directional & coding support you need to pay $49.95/make per year to enable it. Not sure if those features expire after a year or if you only get updates for them for a year, but either way, I much prefer the idea of having to pay for those features only if I need them. If I really need to do something only a dealer can do and have to pay $50 to do it on the MuCar VO6, that seems like a bargain to me.
- Unlike the Foxwell NT726, the battery life on the Mucar seems to be holding steady and hardly draining when I use it.
- It's very easy to save and email a professionally formatted PDF report of the scan data collected. If you have a shop, you can customize these reports with your shop name and logo. It also provides the native ability to take screen shots or a video recording of your session on the device.
- I paid a total of $308.38 including tax and with whatever discounts & coupons were available. There was a promotion that included a free Mucar CDL20 OBD2 scanner (regularly $20). If I keep the Mucar VO6, I'll just give the freebie scanner to a friend or family member.
CLOSING THOUGHTS
One other scan tool I saw, but didn't test, is the BlueDriver Pro Scan Tool. As I was ranting about the scan tool space and how your money doesn't seem to get you anything other than crappy hardware using outdated Android versions, BlueDriver takes a different approach. They provide you with a Bluetooth dongle and you use your phone to control & display information. If you look at the reviews on Amazon, people seem to LOVE this product. And unlike all the scan tools above, the BlueDriver corporate office designs & engineers their products at their HQ in Canada. They're still manufactured in China (like everybody else), but everything up until that point is done in North America.
However, the BlueDriver appears to be relatively new to this space and they don't have the advanced diagnosics or the array of service resets or bi-directional features that other scan tools do. All they do is scan. But for $100-120, if that's all you need or want, the BlueDriver looks very promising.
If all you want is a scan tool that spits out codes, there are a gazillion options which are much less expensive than the tools I described above. I set my budget at about $200-300, figuring that was easily what one or two dealer diagnostic visits would cost, and was determined to find the best piece of hardware & software that met my requirements and included lifetime updates. For me, this definitely seems to be the MuCar VO6. If I only had to choose from the 2 Foxwell's and the Innova 3160RS I played with, despite my initial rants, I think I would choose the Innova scan tool over Foxwell's. Doesn't have as many functions as the NT726, but it also costs less and it's an elegant, powerful, and simple solution with a screen that's easy to read & interpret. Of course, Innova has a long list of models with varying capabilities, and if I didn't love the MuCar this much, I would just find the Innova model to fit my requirements.
So why buy a scan tool? Obviously, if a fault triggers a CEL/MIL, you'd want to use your scan tool to see what's up. But here's the thing: there are a TON of faults and codes that won't trigger a CEL/MIL. With a good scan tool, you'll be able to see all these codes as well. Interested in a used car for sale? A good scanner will uncover these faults & codes. But also realize that the seller (private party or dealer) could have recently cleared them. That's why it's important that you take it for an extended test drive to see if the codes resurface. If you're interested, here's a video that discusses this issue and some demonstrated uses of a higher end Innova model in more detail:
Sorry for the length of this post, but when I was looking for a scan tool, I searched Acurazine to see if anyone had either reviewed or really loved a particular make/model. I didn't find anything of substance along these lines. So if you own or use a scan tool you love, PLEASE use this thread to share that info with the rest of the community.
I never knew much about scan tools, but several years ago my '05 TL threw an SRS light on the dash. Acura dealer was more than happy to "diagnose" it for $100+, but that seemed absurd. I then learned there were some Honda Diagnostic Software (HDS) versions out in the wild that I could install on a laptop and buy an Ebay cable to use. Took a while to get the SW cooking, but once it was up, I was able to scan & reset things on my '05 in ways that cheap/generic OBDII tools couldn't. Found the source of the SRS error (an open cirtuit in the seatbelt lock) and took that info to the Acura dealer. Fortunately, they didn't require me to pay a diagnostic fee since I told them exactly what was wrong. But the best part was learning that things like the seatbelt lock come with a lifetime warranty, so they fixed it for FREE.
Fast forward a few years and about a month ago I saw a low mileage Moroccan Red Pearl '08 for sale. So I got my newer laptop out, installed my sketchy HDS version on it, and went to inspect the car. Thought I was so smart: seller would have no idea I had a tool to tell me EVERYTHING going on with his car. Popped the cable in the OBDII port, fired up my HDS SW, and...communication error, failed to connect. WTF? Spent way too much time killing the app & retrying without success. When I got home I hooked up my HDS laptop to my '05. Scanned with no issue. Then I tried on my '07 and, wah-wah-wah, same communication error I'd had when I tried to scan the '08. Clearly my HDS laptop solution was having an issue with the newer '07 & '08 models. I opened a thread about it here, but never got a definitive answer about what changed:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p.../#post16819863
Realizing my HDS setup was now beyond it's useful life, I decided it was time to invest in a good scan tool. But what to purchase? There are a ton of vendors and options in this space. Before I discuss the scan tools I've purchased and played with, here are some general observations...
GENERAL OBSERVATIONS
I've worked in IT for over 2 decades and have been playing with computers and technology for 40+ years. Ya know what strikes me about this scan tool tech? It's really primitive. For $200-400 dollars, you can get a very capable smart phone running the latest OS (iOS or Android), plenty of RAM and storage, modern ports, a quality display, and it can do a TON of other stuff. The same money in the "scan tool" space gets you piece of plastic with cheap circuitry, a lousy display, an old OS (e.g., Android 7.0), limited RAM and storage, and no simple way to export the data it collects. Then these companies take the same innards, put them in slightly modified plastic cases, and simply cripple or expand their capabilities by flipping bits to create different models at different price points. Want to scan 4 systems and reset 5 functions, buy this POS hardware for $200. Want to scan 28 systems and reset 7 functions, buy this nearly identical POS hardware with a few more bits enabled for $400. And so on. It's a total racket!
When you're looking for a scan tool, DON'T get sucked into this marketing mess. Figure out what you actually need and then find a scan tool that meets your requirements. What good is a scanner that can reset 8 different service functions if they're not supported on your year, make, and model? Why pay a premium for "bi-directional" testing features you'll never use, or again, aren't supported on your vehicle? Hey, this one supports scanning "all 28 systems" but then you find out your make & model only has 7 systems to begin with (like the 3g TL's). Email the vendor or manufacturer and ask them specifically which features & functions are supported for your car(s).
When it comes to pricing, at least on Amazon, it literally varies from day to day and seller to seller. Some days I'd look at a listing and it would have X discount. A few days later the price would be different, but you could apply a coupon code to save Y dollars. Over "Prime Days" almost every scanner I'd been looking at was marked down 20%. There are also multiple listings for the same model from different vendors and their prices & deals can be all over the place. If you don't need it immediately, keep your models of interest in different browser tabs and refresh them from time to time to see how their prices fluctuate.
OK, on to the scan tools...
I asked a "car guy" friend for scanner recommendations. He told me he had an Innova 3160g Pro. So I ordered the updated version: 3160RS. Before I describe some other scanners, what follows is my rant/review of this scanner. But please note that I wrote this BEFORE I tried the Foxwell models I'll discuss afterward. It's much lengthier because most of my issues were addressed to their Support email (which apparently isn't monitored). After trying the Foxwell models, I came to appreciate the relative elagance and simplicity of the Innova scanner a lot more, despite my perceived limitations when I had it. So here were my thoughts about this scanner.
INNOVA 3160RS
First off, as a scanner alone, it's very capable and I didn't have any technical issues with it. That said, I think it's important to understand everything that's being marketed to you: the scan tool, the RepairSolutions2 (RS2) software, and the "Support." Here are some bullet points to consider and some things I found annoying:
- If you just want a capable scanner, this one is as good as any other I tried. It picked up and erased codes as needed.
- The RS2 software is hot garbage. To me, it exists primarily as a means to sell you more cr@p. Push this button to buy an extended car warranty. Push this button to buy a "full vehicle history report." Here's a list of parts that "might" fail in the next 12 months or 15K miles. Wanna buy them? Push this button!
- In their videos, on their website, and in the docs included with the scanner, they promote that they have an army of ASE certified techs who will be there for you if you have any questions about the product. They basically claim to have incredible tech support. This is COMPLETE AND UTTER BS! I called the 800 number and got an answering machine. I tried to initiate a Live Chat during business hours but it was unavailable. I emailed support weeks ago and still no reply or even an acknowledgement of my inquiry. I can't fully compare Innova's support to other vendors in this space, but just know that they are completely full of cr@p on their tech support claims. I can say that I emailed Foxwell Support and they did reply rather quickly and thoroughly.
- As soon as you connect the scanner to the vehicle, it initiates a "Quick Scan." But what if I don't want a quick scan and want a thorogh one of a particular system instead. Since their support never answered my email, I'm not certain you need to wait for the automatic "Quick Scan" to complete before you're able to initiate a different one, but it seemed that way to me. At first I was annoyed about this "auto quick scan" feature, but then I realized how useful it would be if you owned a shop or a dealership: you just want to scan a car, get monitor statuses and see if there are any codes as quickly as possible and move on. This scanner is perfect for that.
- However, want to export, email, or save a report you generated in RS2 so you have something you can cut & paste from as you research an issue or simply want to keep a record for historical purposes? Wah, wah, wah: no facility exists to accomplish this. Everything is stored on the scanner or up in the cloud where the RS2 software can access it, but there's no way to print or export it.
- Want to delete or manage the list of reports that have been generated (like the "Quick Scans" it automatically generates every time you connect your scanner)? Wah, wah, wah: not happening.
- Want to cleanly exit the RS2 phone app without logging out of it so it doesn't stay running in the background, and so you don't have to login with your credentials the next time you need it? You know the drill: wah, wah, wah.
- Want to update the firmware on this scanner to the latest code? Cool, just connect it to your computer. But wait, you need a USB 2.0 Mini-B cable to connect it and Innova doesn't provide (at least not in my package) even a cheap one in the box? You are sadly correct! USB 2.0 was standardized 22 years ago, so how many of you have a USB cable with a Mini-B connector on it? I'm surprised there's not a button in the RS2 app that says, "Click here to buy the most basic things you need to fully use your scan tool, suckers!"
- I paid a total of $226.77 including tax and with whatever discounts & coupons were available.
Again, this was the first "real" scanner I'd purchased and was underwhelmed by what I got for my money. However, in hindsight, it's just as good if not better than the next two Foxwell's I tried.
FOXWELL NT624 Elite
- Much like the Innova, this thing was very good at scanning.
- The build quality is crap. It reminds me of a "toy computer" you might buy for a 5 year-old to make them feel like they've got a real one.
- It looks like a touchscreen, but it's not and the display is junk. It's just a glorified menu system where you have to use directional arrows & function keys to navigate.
- Unlike the Innova model above, this Foxwell model will scan "all" systems and supports 5 Reset functions. It also has a facility to save and export a PDF version of its diagnostic reports, but requires you to pop out the included SDHC card and use it with your computer and their FoxAssist software to do so. It works, but it's kludgey.
- Like the Innova, it comes with free "lifetime" updates.
- I paid a total of $263.89 including tax and with whatever discounts & coupons were available.
FOXWELL NT726
- Unlike the NT624 Elite, this scanner has a touchscreen. However, it's more like they stuck an old Android 7.0 phone inside a cheap plastic case. Build quality was definitely better and more solid than the NT624. BTW, Android 7.0 was released almost 6 years ago.
- Mostly same features and functions as the NT624 with a few more reset functions.
- When using this scanner, the battery seemed to drain pretty quickly. Don't know if I just got a unit with a sketchy battery or if that's just the way it is.
- This was getting closer to what I was looking for, but I still wasn't overly impressed or satisfied.
- Seemingly very capable, but from a build quality perspective, still didn't feel it was worth the $242.70 total cost IMHO. There was a promotion that included a free OBD extension cable, but so what.
To this point, I was still miffed that for about $200-250 all I was getting was crappy hardware with somewhat different interfaces. As I said at the top, this is admittedly form over function, but if I'm paying this much for a gadget, I want to feel like I bought something decent. All too often I think we're so mesmerized by the fact that these scan tools are able to get data from the cars WE OWN, and do so without paying exhorbitant dealer fees, that we overlook or excuse what cheaply made devices these actually are. So far, all these scanners left me underwhelmed in this regard. So what next?
Even though they were a bit more expensive, I started looking at tablet type scanners from Autel, LAUNCH, and ThinkCar. Autel seems like the premium/professional brand among them, but probably overkill unless you run a shop. Plus, it seems that when you get above a certain price-point, the scan tool vendors figure that you are a professional mechanic and want to soak you for monthly or annual updates. Total BS. Both the LAUNCH and ThinkCar scanners appeared to be better hardware & displays, but also seemed to be at least $100-150 more than what I'd purchased so far.
But then I stumbled across this brand named MuCar (silly name, but believe the "Mu" is from the Greek alphabet). Don't think I would have ever found them if I hadn't gone to this Amazon listing and scrolled down to read the "From the brand" section which had some pics of MuCar scan tools:
It appears that ThinkTool & MuCar are two brands from the same company (ThinkCar) that is headquartered in China. For example, if you look up ThinkCar's highly reviewed Thinktool Mini, it's nearly identical to the MuCar VO6, but the Thinktool Mini is ~$50-100 more. Additionally, I saw a YT video which said that the ThinkTool Mini leverages the user interface (UI) developed by LAUNCH. Maybe ThinkCar licenses the UI's for their ThinkTool & MuCar brands from LAUNCH? The primary differences between the Thinktool Mini and the MuCar VO6 appear to be that the VO6 doesn't have the hand-strap and can't be expanded to support other ThinkCar peripherals like thermal printers and a bunch of other proprietary (and expensive) hardware. Nothing I care about.
So I ordered a MuCar VO6. First impressions: high quality, cellophane sealed packaging (ironic since the more expensive ThinkCar scan tools look like they're packaged in much cheaper/generic cardboard boxes). As soon as you hold the VO6 in your hands, you realize you're dealing with a completely different level of build quality when compared to the Innova & Foxwell units above. The hi-res display is sharp, bright, and easy to read.
MUCAR VO6
- As mentioned, much better build quality than the Innova or Foxwell models above. It's also ergonomic with the side where the bluetooth dongle is stored also serving as a hand-grip.
- Totally wireless: a bluetooth dongle is elegantly stored inside the Mucor VO6 body.
- Android 10 based OS. About 2.5 years old, but way better than the nearly 6 year old Android 7.0 on the Foxwell device. Note: after looking at some other scan tools like the XTOOL D7, I realized that it's not really the Android OS level that matters. Instead, it's the CPU, memory, and quality of the UI. I say this because scan tools like the XTOOL D7 are actually running Android 5.1.1, but appear to be very fast and extremely capable. But the XTOOL wasn't in my budget and doesn't come with lifetime free upgrades.
- I'm over 50 so my vision ain't what it used to be. Reading the Innova 3160RS was pretty easy because it has a high-contrast backlit LCD screen, but I had difficulty reading the Foxwell scanners without higher magnification glasses.
- The UI on the VO6 is both very intuitive and easy to follow.
- When it autoscans for a VIN, it plays this "slot machine" music as the numbers whir by while gathering the data. A little schticky, but again, not that important.
- MuCar actually provides a printed manual! Not super detailed, but I'm a dinosaur so I appreciate such things.
- Everything worked exactly as I expected it should. All the setup instructions were clear and I didn't have any issues following them. The only caveat: the wall power connector has a European adapter plug by default. It does include a US adapter, however, it wasn't clear to me how to change them and couldn't find anything in the documentation. After trying to unscrew it without success, I noticed there was a tiny release button on the power connecter. Once depressed, the Euro plug is easily swapped with the US one.
- Doing updates was a breeze
- Lifetime scanning updates are free, however, if you want bi-directional & coding support you need to pay $49.95/make per year to enable it. Not sure if those features expire after a year or if you only get updates for them for a year, but either way, I much prefer the idea of having to pay for those features only if I need them. If I really need to do something only a dealer can do and have to pay $50 to do it on the MuCar VO6, that seems like a bargain to me.
- Unlike the Foxwell NT726, the battery life on the Mucar seems to be holding steady and hardly draining when I use it.
- It's very easy to save and email a professionally formatted PDF report of the scan data collected. If you have a shop, you can customize these reports with your shop name and logo. It also provides the native ability to take screen shots or a video recording of your session on the device.
- I paid a total of $308.38 including tax and with whatever discounts & coupons were available. There was a promotion that included a free Mucar CDL20 OBD2 scanner (regularly $20). If I keep the Mucar VO6, I'll just give the freebie scanner to a friend or family member.
CLOSING THOUGHTS
One other scan tool I saw, but didn't test, is the BlueDriver Pro Scan Tool. As I was ranting about the scan tool space and how your money doesn't seem to get you anything other than crappy hardware using outdated Android versions, BlueDriver takes a different approach. They provide you with a Bluetooth dongle and you use your phone to control & display information. If you look at the reviews on Amazon, people seem to LOVE this product. And unlike all the scan tools above, the BlueDriver corporate office designs & engineers their products at their HQ in Canada. They're still manufactured in China (like everybody else), but everything up until that point is done in North America.
However, the BlueDriver appears to be relatively new to this space and they don't have the advanced diagnosics or the array of service resets or bi-directional features that other scan tools do. All they do is scan. But for $100-120, if that's all you need or want, the BlueDriver looks very promising.
If all you want is a scan tool that spits out codes, there are a gazillion options which are much less expensive than the tools I described above. I set my budget at about $200-300, figuring that was easily what one or two dealer diagnostic visits would cost, and was determined to find the best piece of hardware & software that met my requirements and included lifetime updates. For me, this definitely seems to be the MuCar VO6. If I only had to choose from the 2 Foxwell's and the Innova 3160RS I played with, despite my initial rants, I think I would choose the Innova scan tool over Foxwell's. Doesn't have as many functions as the NT726, but it also costs less and it's an elegant, powerful, and simple solution with a screen that's easy to read & interpret. Of course, Innova has a long list of models with varying capabilities, and if I didn't love the MuCar this much, I would just find the Innova model to fit my requirements.
So why buy a scan tool? Obviously, if a fault triggers a CEL/MIL, you'd want to use your scan tool to see what's up. But here's the thing: there are a TON of faults and codes that won't trigger a CEL/MIL. With a good scan tool, you'll be able to see all these codes as well. Interested in a used car for sale? A good scanner will uncover these faults & codes. But also realize that the seller (private party or dealer) could have recently cleared them. That's why it's important that you take it for an extended test drive to see if the codes resurface. If you're interested, here's a video that discusses this issue and some demonstrated uses of a higher end Innova model in more detail:
Sorry for the length of this post, but when I was looking for a scan tool, I searched Acurazine to see if anyone had either reviewed or really loved a particular make/model. I didn't find anything of substance along these lines. So if you own or use a scan tool you love, PLEASE use this thread to share that info with the rest of the community.
07-27-2022, 05:09 AM
#2
So why buy a scan tool? Obviously, if a fault triggers a CEL/MIL, you'd want to use your scan tool to see what's up. But here's the thing: there are a TON of faults and codes that won't trigger a CEL/MIL. With a good scan tool, you'll be able to see all these codes as well. Interested in a used car for sale? A good scanner will uncover these faults & codes. But also realize that the seller (private party or dealer) could have recently cleared them. That's why it's important that you take it for an extended test drive to see if the codes resurface.
Sorry for the length of this post, but when I was looking for a scan tool, I searched Acurazine to see if anyone had either reviewed or really loved a particular make/model. I didn't find anything of substance along these lines. So if you own or use a scan tool you love, PLEASE use this thread to share that info with the rest of the community.
07-27-2022, 07:32 AM
#3
Senior Moderator
Thank you for your detailed write-up, I'll be adding it to our info library AKA garage shortly.
Bluedriver is great for simple things and basic diagnostics. Trying to display live data for more than 4 sensors causes some serious lag on the display. I've used it to help diagnose over 40 cars in the 2-3 years I've had it and it's a great little device for the average joe who doesn't want to pay $$$ for a higher end tool.
Good thing you mentioned thinktool, they come highly rated from many mechanics who do diagnostic work. Did not know about MuCar, sometimes I need bi-directional so this would be great!
Bluedriver is great for simple things and basic diagnostics. Trying to display live data for more than 4 sensors causes some serious lag on the display. I've used it to help diagnose over 40 cars in the 2-3 years I've had it and it's a great little device for the average joe who doesn't want to pay $$$ for a higher end tool.
Good thing you mentioned thinktool, they come highly rated from many mechanics who do diagnostic work. Did not know about MuCar, sometimes I need bi-directional so this would be great!
07-27-2022, 10:13 AM
#4
Most of the bi-directional scan tools are like a ~$100 tablet hardware with a Bluetooth dongle running on some ancient android. Once you had couple of them in your hands they all feel about the same. Price most likely comes from software actually used to communicate with the car, although there is some similarity between them, so probably just reskinned UI with same code underneath.
I had many scan tools in my hand, but never had an opportunity to work with "OEM" scan tool long enough to be able to say something about it.
My previous shop had some snap-on verus scanner, with oscilloscope module, with its big snap-on toolbox, printer, whole drawer of adapters for OBD1, another drawer of test leads, amp clamps, etc.
That thing was a monster and I don't think it ever failed us once. But really f**** expensive. Once every couple of months they send a guy with a flash drive to update it.
It was a big shop, bunch of the guys, only one scanner, so sometimes we were waiting for each other.
Currently I have couple on hand. One is an very old Snap-on Verus D10. It stills runs on Windows XP, single core CPU, and 2 GB of RAM, probably still on resistive touch screen (as you need to tap the screen with fingernail for it to register), and is updated only to 2013 models. But If I get the car made in or before 2013 I still prefer to use this scan tool. Software is old and I see the difference between this and Verus from the previous shop, but it's fast at scanning and gets the job done most of the time.
I have an autel MS906TS and that's the cheap android tablet that I wrote about. This thing had modern UI but it's painfully slow at scanning, connecting, etc. UI doesn't lag so it's not the tablet's CPU problem. Graphing sucks, you can't select your own scale. It hates Ford (and Mazda). I mean if I need to scan ford newer than 2013, I connect this thing and go for a break. It will keep spinning and "connecting" forever. Nice feature it has is "Hot functions" like quickly resetting the maintenance, putting electronic parking brake in service mode, etc.
Autel MX808TS is about the same as MS906 except worse in everything. I don't use it if any other is available.
Another guy has his own Launch X-431V. It's even cheaper hardware than Autel, and battery died once withing warranty period, and new scan tool has battery troubles again. From 100% it will have like an hour of battery life. However software is probably the best (not counting snap on). You can connect it to the car, tap one button, and it will automatically read the VIN and start scanning all modules, and give you a report. It even has a button to google to code for you hah! I didn't have much time to play with it but if I wanted my own bi-dir I would probably get that one. Battery life is a only concern.
However all of them fail sooner of later, especially on European cars. Resetting maintenance on Autel and BMW is fine (but takes like 5 - 10 minutes of waiting), snap on lacks this feature. But the do lack control over certain features. I often find that one scan tool lacks one option, but other has it. So there's no one size fits all there, and none of them are perfect, but the more you pay the better you get. Although Snap-on and its price point in tens of thousands of dollars is completely out of reach for a DIY.
I had many scan tools in my hand, but never had an opportunity to work with "OEM" scan tool long enough to be able to say something about it.
My previous shop had some snap-on verus scanner, with oscilloscope module, with its big snap-on toolbox, printer, whole drawer of adapters for OBD1, another drawer of test leads, amp clamps, etc.
That thing was a monster and I don't think it ever failed us once. But really f**** expensive. Once every couple of months they send a guy with a flash drive to update it.
It was a big shop, bunch of the guys, only one scanner, so sometimes we were waiting for each other.
Currently I have couple on hand. One is an very old Snap-on Verus D10. It stills runs on Windows XP, single core CPU, and 2 GB of RAM, probably still on resistive touch screen (as you need to tap the screen with fingernail for it to register), and is updated only to 2013 models. But If I get the car made in or before 2013 I still prefer to use this scan tool. Software is old and I see the difference between this and Verus from the previous shop, but it's fast at scanning and gets the job done most of the time.
I have an autel MS906TS and that's the cheap android tablet that I wrote about. This thing had modern UI but it's painfully slow at scanning, connecting, etc. UI doesn't lag so it's not the tablet's CPU problem. Graphing sucks, you can't select your own scale. It hates Ford (and Mazda). I mean if I need to scan ford newer than 2013, I connect this thing and go for a break. It will keep spinning and "connecting" forever. Nice feature it has is "Hot functions" like quickly resetting the maintenance, putting electronic parking brake in service mode, etc.
Autel MX808TS is about the same as MS906 except worse in everything. I don't use it if any other is available.
Another guy has his own Launch X-431V. It's even cheaper hardware than Autel, and battery died once withing warranty period, and new scan tool has battery troubles again. From 100% it will have like an hour of battery life. However software is probably the best (not counting snap on). You can connect it to the car, tap one button, and it will automatically read the VIN and start scanning all modules, and give you a report. It even has a button to google to code for you hah! I didn't have much time to play with it but if I wanted my own bi-dir I would probably get that one. Battery life is a only concern.
However all of them fail sooner of later, especially on European cars. Resetting maintenance on Autel and BMW is fine (but takes like 5 - 10 minutes of waiting), snap on lacks this feature. But the do lack control over certain features. I often find that one scan tool lacks one option, but other has it. So there's no one size fits all there, and none of them are perfect, but the more you pay the better you get. Although Snap-on and its price point in tens of thousands of dollars is completely out of reach for a DIY.
Last edited by peter6; 07-27-2022 at 10:17 AM.
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07-27-2022, 02:39 PM
#5
Thanks for all the info, @peter6 ! This is exactly what I hoped people would do with this thread: share their real-world experiences with these products, so the next person in the market for one can use this as a frame of reference.
Funny, a friend who used to own a shop has this same old Snap-on Verus. I went over to his place a couple of years ago to see if it could do some adaptations on a BMW after a carbon cleaning. I laughed when I saw it was running Win XP!
Interesting, I watched a couple of videos on that Launch X431 V, and the guy commented that it was a, "quality Lenovo tablet." Then again, he may have received it for free to review it, so...
Sounds like what I was experiencing with the Foxwell NT726. Every time I glanced at the battery gauge, it was down another few percent.
I've watched some Launch vids and it looks like both the ThinkTool & MuCar do in fact use the same Launch software/UI, so they must license it from them as I speculated above. They also both provide a direct Google link for every code found and the browser is wicked fast pulling up the page. Reports are probably identical, too. Yet another reason to give MuCar consideration and avoid paying the premium for ThinkTool or Launch.
Sounds like what I was experiencing with the Foxwell NT726. Every time I glanced at the battery gauge, it was down another few percent.
I've watched some Launch vids and it looks like both the ThinkTool & MuCar do in fact use the same Launch software/UI, so they must license it from them as I speculated above. They also both provide a direct Google link for every code found and the browser is wicked fast pulling up the page. Reports are probably identical, too. Yet another reason to give MuCar consideration and avoid paying the premium for ThinkTool or Launch.
07-28-2022, 03:45 PM
#6
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Most of the bi-directional scan tools are like a ~$100 tablet hardware with a Bluetooth dongle running on some ancient android. Once you had couple of them in your hands they all feel about the same. Price most likely comes from software actually used to communicate with the car, although there is some similarity between them, so probably just reskinned UI with same code underneath.
I had many scan tools in my hand, but never had an opportunity to work with "OEM" scan tool long enough to be able to say something about it.
My previous shop had some snap-on verus scanner, with oscilloscope module, with its big snap-on toolbox, printer, whole drawer of adapters for OBD1, another drawer of test leads, amp clamps, etc.
That thing was a monster and I don't think it ever failed us once. But really f**** expensive. Once every couple of months they send a guy with a flash drive to update it.
It was a big shop, bunch of the guys, only one scanner, so sometimes we were waiting for each other.
Currently I have couple on hand. One is an very old Snap-on Verus D10. It stills runs on Windows XP, single core CPU, and 2 GB of RAM, probably still on resistive touch screen (as you need to tap the screen with fingernail for it to register), and is updated only to 2013 models. But If I get the car made in or before 2013 I still prefer to use this scan tool. Software is old and I see the difference between this and Verus from the previous shop, but it's fast at scanning and gets the job done most of the time.
I have an autel MS906TS and that's the cheap android tablet that I wrote about. This thing had modern UI but it's painfully slow at scanning, connecting, etc. UI doesn't lag so it's not the tablet's CPU problem. Graphing sucks, you can't select your own scale. It hates Ford (and Mazda). I mean if I need to scan ford newer than 2013, I connect this thing and go for a break. It will keep spinning and "connecting" forever. Nice feature it has is "Hot functions" like quickly resetting the maintenance, putting electronic parking brake in service mode, etc.
Autel MX808TS is about the same as MS906 except worse in everything. I don't use it if any other is available.
Another guy has his own Launch X-431V. It's even cheaper hardware than Autel, and battery died once withing warranty period, and new scan tool has battery troubles again. From 100% it will have like an hour of battery life. However software is probably the best (not counting snap on). You can connect it to the car, tap one button, and it will automatically read the VIN and start scanning all modules, and give you a report. It even has a button to google to code for you hah! I didn't have much time to play with it but if I wanted my own bi-dir I would probably get that one. Battery life is a only concern.
However all of them fail sooner of later, especially on European cars. Resetting maintenance on Autel and BMW is fine (but takes like 5 - 10 minutes of waiting), snap on lacks this feature. But the do lack control over certain features. I often find that one scan tool lacks one option, but other has it. So there's no one size fits all there, and none of them are perfect, but the more you pay the better you get. Although Snap-on and its price point in tens of thousands of dollars is completely out of reach for a DIY.
I had many scan tools in my hand, but never had an opportunity to work with "OEM" scan tool long enough to be able to say something about it.
My previous shop had some snap-on verus scanner, with oscilloscope module, with its big snap-on toolbox, printer, whole drawer of adapters for OBD1, another drawer of test leads, amp clamps, etc.
That thing was a monster and I don't think it ever failed us once. But really f**** expensive. Once every couple of months they send a guy with a flash drive to update it.
It was a big shop, bunch of the guys, only one scanner, so sometimes we were waiting for each other.
Currently I have couple on hand. One is an very old Snap-on Verus D10. It stills runs on Windows XP, single core CPU, and 2 GB of RAM, probably still on resistive touch screen (as you need to tap the screen with fingernail for it to register), and is updated only to 2013 models. But If I get the car made in or before 2013 I still prefer to use this scan tool. Software is old and I see the difference between this and Verus from the previous shop, but it's fast at scanning and gets the job done most of the time.
I have an autel MS906TS and that's the cheap android tablet that I wrote about. This thing had modern UI but it's painfully slow at scanning, connecting, etc. UI doesn't lag so it's not the tablet's CPU problem. Graphing sucks, you can't select your own scale. It hates Ford (and Mazda). I mean if I need to scan ford newer than 2013, I connect this thing and go for a break. It will keep spinning and "connecting" forever. Nice feature it has is "Hot functions" like quickly resetting the maintenance, putting electronic parking brake in service mode, etc.
Autel MX808TS is about the same as MS906 except worse in everything. I don't use it if any other is available.
Another guy has his own Launch X-431V. It's even cheaper hardware than Autel, and battery died once withing warranty period, and new scan tool has battery troubles again. From 100% it will have like an hour of battery life. However software is probably the best (not counting snap on). You can connect it to the car, tap one button, and it will automatically read the VIN and start scanning all modules, and give you a report. It even has a button to google to code for you hah! I didn't have much time to play with it but if I wanted my own bi-dir I would probably get that one. Battery life is a only concern.
However all of them fail sooner of later, especially on European cars. Resetting maintenance on Autel and BMW is fine (but takes like 5 - 10 minutes of waiting), snap on lacks this feature. But the do lack control over certain features. I often find that one scan tool lacks one option, but other has it. So there's no one size fits all there, and none of them are perfect, but the more you pay the better you get. Although Snap-on and its price point in tens of thousands of dollars is completely out of reach for a DIY.
I have the autel mk808bt. It's not as slow as people put it. Maybe if you're doing a full scan. For the price I paid it's doing everything that a higher end snap-on scanner does. Of course the snap on probably has features the autels don't have either. But from my experience the autel in general was much more useful than the snap on.
A few of the Honda/Acura guys even use autel scanners to help program their ECU in preparation for Hondata.
At the end of the day though you should buy for your intended usage and compare it to the cost. Even your $10 ELM327 Bluetooth scanners are good enough for most people just to read and erase generic codes.
Last edited by o4Komodo; 07-28-2022 at 03:48 PM.
07-28-2022, 09:32 PM
#7
To the professional mechanics and scan tool power users out there: since this is a 3g TL forum, I assume you own or owned one. If so, anything specific you can share about how these tools compare as it relates to the 3g (or Honda/Acura as whole) would be great. Thx!
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07-29-2022, 04:19 PM
#8
Rev High; Drive Happy
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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edit:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p...d-know-898223/
07-29-2022, 08:18 PM
#9
Pardon my ignorance, but assuming this or something like it is the "Chinese" version of the HIM, I still don't understand how you actually use it?
https://www.obdii365.com/wholesale/h...ble-board.html
I see that the HIM has an OBD2 cable connected to it, but how does one connect from their PC (running the HDS software, I presume) to the HIM? Can someone familiar please explain how the whole setup should work with a laptop/PC?
https://www.obdii365.com/wholesale/h...ble-board.html
I see that the HIM has an OBD2 cable connected to it, but how does one connect from their PC (running the HDS software, I presume) to the HIM? Can someone familiar please explain how the whole setup should work with a laptop/PC?
08-01-2022, 03:35 PM
#10
Senior Moderator
Pardon my ignorance, but assuming this or something like it is the "Chinese" version of the HIM, I still don't understand how you actually use it?
https://www.obdii365.com/wholesale/h...ble-board.html
I see that the HIM has an OBD2 cable connected to it, but how does one connect from their PC (running the HDS software, I presume) to the HIM? Can someone familiar please explain how the whole setup should work with a laptop/PC?
https://www.obdii365.com/wholesale/h...ble-board.html
I see that the HIM has an OBD2 cable connected to it, but how does one connect from their PC (running the HDS software, I presume) to the HIM? Can someone familiar please explain how the whole setup should work with a laptop/PC?
08-01-2022, 03:44 PM
#11
Have you tried downloading and installing any of these:
Free Download Honda HDS 3.104.042+iHDS 1.006 +J2534 Rewrite | OBDII365.com Official Blog
08-01-2022, 04:57 PM
#12
Senior Moderator
@csmeance Thx for the post!
Have you tried downloading and installing any of these:
Free Download Honda HDS 3.104.042+iHDS 1.006 +J2534 Rewrite | OBDII365.com Official Blog
Have you tried downloading and installing any of these:
Free Download Honda HDS 3.104.042+iHDS 1.006 +J2534 Rewrite | OBDII365.com Official Blog
08-03-2022, 12:24 AM
#13
Don't ask how I stumbled upon this, but if anyone is looking for the ThinkTool Mini scan tool, wouldn't ya know, Costco is reselling them for about $40-50 less than the best deals & coupons on Amazon:
https://www.costco.com/thinkcar-thin...100789965.html
https://www.costco.com/thinkcar-thin...100789965.html
08-03-2022, 05:41 PM
#14
A little more info: after comparing the specs between the MuCar & ThinkTool, it appears the only internal difference is that the ThinkTool Mini comes with 32GB of storage compared to 16GB on the VO6. Memory, CPU, and Android versions are identical. I've not used a ThinkTool Mini, but it looks like the "Home" page on it is slightly different than the V06, but from what I've seen, all the features and functions are there. Lastly, I emailed MuCar support just to see if anyone was out there because several people in the Costco reviews b*tched about not being able to reach them. I sent the email at 8:40PM PDT. I received a reply at 4am the following morning. And it was signed, "Best regards, THINKCAR Support Team." So yeah, it's all the same company...
08-03-2023, 03:24 AM
#15
A little more info: after comparing the specs between the MuCar & ThinkTool, it appears the only internal difference is that the ThinkTool Mini comes with 32GB of storage compared to 16GB on the VO6. Memory, CPU, and Android versions are identical. I've not used a ThinkTool Mini, but it looks like the "Home" page on it is slightly different than the V06, but from what I've seen, all the features and functions are there. Lastly, I emailed MuCar support just to see if anyone was out there because several people in the Costco reviews b*tched about not being able to reach them. I sent the email at 8:40PM PDT. I received a reply at 4am the following morning. And it was signed, "Best regards, THINKCAR Support Team." So yeah, it's all the same company...
08-04-2023, 04:11 PM
#16
I don't know the answer to your question, but your best bet will be to contact the seller of any units you are considering and ask them if it does the specific function you need.
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