DrMar

Have a 2006 Nighthawk black pearl, ebony interior Acura TL with nav and only 8300 mi. Not even a door ding, less than a year old.

Last week someone ran a stop sign, spun me in a 180 and took out my entire passenger side. Curtain and side airbags deployed, so there is interior as well as exterior damage. The estimate (from a body shop I trust) is coming in at only $13K which is a major disappointment, as I really don't want this vehicle now. Did I mention that the accident was not my fault??

Book value on the car before the wreck was $34,817. Am looking for any help you can offer on obtaining a salvage quote, what I should be asking for in salvage, and how to go about successfully collecting diminished value from Allstate (other driver's ins) so I can get into a 2007 TL.

Another option would be to fix it and then try to sell it... I'm reluctant to do that b/c they are telling me 4 weeks minimum and my rental coverage sucks, and I don't know that I would do any better on price. CarFax report will show the $13K damage. Who in their right mind would want to buy a car like that?

Also, if anyone has experience taking parts off of one TL and putting them on another (front and rear spoilers, moonroof deflector) please let me know if that works out ok. I need to get up to $39K for the new car and I am willing to accept a year of payments down the drain but am trying to recoup as much as I can and if I can sell the car for salvage and take the optional parts off, that will save me almost $2K.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. I'm heartsick - I really liked this car but I just know I will never be happy with it after this...

dejavecu

Would you consider selling your front bumper cover?

pandaman1784

There are a few problems you will run into. In order for the car to qualify for a salvage title, most states require that the vehicle has lost over 75% of it's value. From the estimate you got, your car does not qualify.

If you decide to not fix it, you should take the car to the dealer and have them do a quote for repair. Dealer quotes are usually higher than general repair shops. Assume that the dealer quotes the damage at $14,000, you can just keep the check the insurance company. Here you have two options:

a) You could try to sell the car as is yourself to a junkyard or a private buyer. The amount you get for the car will largely depend on where the damage is and how extreme it is.

b) You could try to part the car and sell each individually. From other threads on this fourm, your nav system could go for a pretty penny. The only problem with this option is that it takes a lot of effort and time.

I think you should consider the option of fixing the car. Once it's done you should see which avenue will get you the most money. You should try Craiglist, Carmax, and a dealer as a trade-in. If you do decide to fix it, you should have a dealer do the work. I'm not trying to imply anything about the body shop you brought the car to, but from a buyer's point of view, I would be willing to pay more money for a vehicle that was fixed by the dealer as opposed to one fixed by a private body shop. Then again, that could just be me.

You should see how much the dealer you used to fix the damage is willing to give you as trade-in value after all the work is done. It should be a good amount since they did all the repairs and should have confidence in their work. You can also shop around and see what other dealers are willing to give you as trade-in value.

As a side note, one of the forum members went to a dealer to buy a used TL and found out at the last minute that car had sustained $15K worth of damage previously. I bring it up only to show that dealers are willing to take cars that have a significant amount of previous damage.

I hope at least some of what I've said here helps you.

DrMar

Thanks for the info, Pandaman. I am in AZ and apparently there are no restrictions here... through the adjustor I made contact with a salvage/parts outfit that has quoted me $15K, firm and good for 60 days.

I need to focus now on getting diminished value from Allstate. Any advice on how to get diminished value from an ins. co? I know it's going to be a battle and am gearing up for that. Would like to hear from anyone who has fought this battle and won, and would also like war stories from those of you who lost.

FYI to those of you looking to cannibalize my black beauty for parts... I'm looking to take the front underbody spoiler, rear deck lid spoiler and moonroof visor with me when I go. The rest of the vehicle will be sold intact to one buyer.

THANKS again for your help...

pandaman1784

I knew i forgot something in my post. I'm sure you've done a search just as I have on this forum and found very little on diminished value. I believe the reason for that is because very few people succeed in getting it. I have a friend who works in Geico and he said it's pretty much an automatic lost cause. Geico will claim that if the repair was done correctly, there should be no diminshed value. And even if there is, it is not cover in policies they sell. I did a search online and found this:

http://info.insure.com/auto/collisio...shedvalue.html

Unfortunately, AZ is one of the states that can exclude diminish value from policies.

pandaman1784

http://www.zalma.com/diminution.htm

Another good link. Scroll down to AZ state.

DrMar

Thanks... This is good info. I knew it would be tough, but maybe not hopeless as it is a property damage claim against the co. of the woman who hit me, so I'm not bound to their policy restrictions -- not my policy. It was recently on the news that a man here in AZ is being sued by a rental company for $3K in diminished value on a rental car, even though the accident was not his fault and the other party's insurance paid to restore it to 'pre-accident' condition. If that was settled, there is at least a precedent that I can cite or use in negotiations.

Another idea - just floated past me by an adjustor - is that there are people out there who buy cars in this condition (obviously at reduced value) and fix them up themselves. Maybe I can get more for the vehicle selling it that way... Any ideas how I can find those folks? Is there a thread/website for do-it-yourselfers that I can tap into?

csmeance

^post pics of the car and i may be one of those people

DrMar

Ok, have not uploaded pics before - let's see if this works...

[IMG]c:\3-12-07_1321.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]c:\pic1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]c:\pic2.jpg[/IMG]

DrMar

Ok, looks like it didn't. Sorry.

DrMar

Having trouble getting the pics up... will have to try again later when I have more time.

DrMar

Some silver lining to this "black pearl cloud": Even though it may be excluded from policies, diminished value is not a lost cause. It is easier if you are going against the other person's insurance company rather than your own, but it is a recoverable loss and there are specialists who (for a nominal fee) will prepare reports for you and even go to bat for you with the insurance company until the issue is settled. The results are usually positive -- i.e., recovery of 75%-100% of the diminished value. It is very rare that this winds up in court from what I understand, but it can take up to 90 days to resolve.

Another thing to consider is that if you are not able to recover your diminished value, or can't recover all of it, you may be able to write off the loss on your Federal income tax (if you itemize). This is something you would need to check on with your tax professional.

I want to thank this community once again for all the great advice and info. Pandaman, your initial web links sent me on a search and that is how I found the right people to help me with this, and I am very grateful to you for that. So, not a lost cause by any means, and I will update you all every month or so to let you know how it's going.

sellnACURA

When nobody is watching, light it on fire. They'll total it for sure! Problem solved!

scrb09

WTF is wrong with you? The man is talking about his accident and asking for advice and you are asking if he can sell you his front bumper cover.

pimpin-tl

Insurance companys do not like to pay it at all. You really have to jump there case. Legally they MUST pay you the diminshed value. We had to do it on one of our cars and it took some argueing with State Farm. We got almost 2k out of them though after it was done. Because the car will never be worth the same after it is repaired. I don't care what a insurance company tells you. The dealers will see the repairs under the frame, in the trunk, in the paint, etc. You can't hide stuff like that very easily.

Our Altima looked new after it was repaired. They saw the welds under the car where it was repaired from a SUV rear-ending it and missing the bumper. It cost like 10k of damage. We took it to carmax didn't tell them about the wreck, and to fight the value we had to get a receipt on what it was worth. They saw it without me telling them. And could tell it was a pretty bad collision. Then we took a copy of kbb.com page to them and this is what it would have been worth.

jupitersolo

Where did they come up with the before accident book value? Granted it is a 06, but that seems too high. I would think book value would be around 30k or less. If this amount was lowered it might give you what you want, more than 50% damaged from the accident.

weedeater

OP was talking about parting out the car. So he asked for the bumper.

Personally, I wouldn't part the car out as new as it is.

KeithL

You can go after the other party and their insurance for dimished value, although you may need to take them to court. There are appraisers that will right up a dimished value report that you can use, but usually you need to get the car fixed. Also if you plan on fixing it and selling it, get rid of it before it hits CARFAX as that will just make it harder to sell. Carfax can take 3-4 months to have it show.

I had a Camry that I got in accident on month 2 and it was about $4500 in damage nothing really structual, but car had radiator dmagae and had to be towed. CARFAX considers that substantial close to salvage and dealers run away. Insurance gave me $200 in dimished vlaue, but I got estimates from trade-ins and a independant apprasial that showed $2600 in lost value, my insuranse after a little pushing wrote me check. GA requires them to pay dimished value. It also did not hurt that I have been insured with them for 15+ years with home, auto, and additional riders on my polices.

TL1999

LOL....LOL...

CL6

Not to be a downer but the invoice on an 07 is $33,833.62 and insurance will look for wholesale value or less (Black Book).

I wish you luck that's a bad spot to be in.

Hype

Yep that does happen . Definitely check with your local dealership.

DrMar

I don't think it is the dollar amount of damage that matters... it is whether the damage to the body involves cuts and welds. The dealer informed me, and I have confirmed that any damage to a unibody vehicle that involves welds cannot be certified for resale by a dealership. I am actually getting that info in writing to help with my recovery efforts.

Another thing I learned from the body shop is that the original vehicle body parts (doors, etc.) are all stamped with a VIN number. Replacement parts (even original Acura replacement parts) have no number stamp. Anyone with vehicle knowledge could ID replaced parts. Welds are even easier to spot.

geekybiker

Getting diminished value out of your own insurance company is tough. If its someone else's insurance, they owe it to you. You have to be able to show a number and know to ask for it. After all the other party is liable for all damages, not just repairing your car.

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

If they are fixing it, how are you asking for a salvage quote AND diminished value? Wouldn't it be either or? I understand you want the book value to be HIGH for a salvage quote, but LOW for a determination. It's a catch-22. If they say the value is high, then the $13K is low enough to justify paying for it. If they say the value is lower, it might be salvaged, but then you only get the low book value.

I think your best bet is to make sure they fix it and then ask for diminished value. Then the high book value helps. When my 96 Accord was hit last year, they were going to salvage it, and offered me $4000. I had an H22 swap and a good bit of stuff done to it, plus a 2 door 96 5 speed with leather with NO mods sold for around $6000 - $7500 in our area at the time. I refused to settle at $4K and wanted $8000. They scoffed, and we agreed to have it repaired. Repair was about $5500. After everything was fixed and settled, he was cutting me the check for the body shop, I said, don't forget another check for diminished value. Without missing a beat, he said he had already planned that too (probably lied) and cut another check on the spot for $1400.

If the value of your car has lost, say 15% of the 34K value, they should fix it, AND give you 5Gs. Another option, before settling on the diminished value price, if they are DEFINITELY going to fix it, is to take it to Carmax after it has been repaired and get an offer for it. Then you have some ammo on the diminished value. Don't fret about the state you are in. SC doesn't have to pay it either, but most insurance companies do it to keep you as happy as they can.

You could drag this out for a long time if you don't sign anything. Granted, you still have to pay your payment on your car in the meantime. Good luck, and let us know what happens.

reaXion

Working at carmax helps me to help people determine the diminished value.
If you have frame damage on your car, then it's definitely not something you want to hold on to.
Most states you have to get a lawyer to get the diminished value of your car back from the person who hit your car.

Book value on the car is awful high from what you listed.
Most insurance agencies give private party value from NADA for the cars value when claiming it a total loss.
That's more of a retail price then anything else, where the insurance company in most cases will not give you that much.

You have to weigh out the options of whether to get it fixed and drive around in a frame damaged vehicle or to consider it a total loss and just get a different car.

ndabunka

For a better idea of how people are being successful with diminished value claims simply go to the websites for the more expensive cars, like mercedes (mbworld.org), BMW (don't remember) and Lexus (clublexus). A number of those drivers are attorney's and they have been successful.

jonathan.chance

I did a diminished value claim when I was in an accident with my 06 TL. I had to get a memorandum style value estimate from a dealership outlining my vehicles value prior to and after the accident. If you send my your email address I'll forward you a copy of that document.

I wrote about it in another thread on here somewhere-good luck finding where. I ended up getting $5,000 and probably could have received more but I was a little naive.

DrMar

Well, I'm back to tell you how this situation resolved:

The other party's insurance assumed liability for the accident 2 weeks after the collision and sent me a check for repairs; $12.2K and change. A sr. adjustor with my insurance co helped me out by sending pics of my damaged TL to Insurance Auto Auctions. Based on the pics, they came back with a firm bid, valid for 60 days, of $15.2K.

I went online and found a service that prepares diminished value reports for a fee. The report came back with an estimated diminished value of $14-14.3K. I also obtained a statement from a local Acura dealership stating that my vehicle, after repairs, would only be worth wholesale and would not be certifiable for resale.

The other party's insurance company had $25K property damage limits. I sent a request to the other party's insurance co. for rental costs and diminished value, requesting $23.4K ($11.2K additional). They called me yesterday and we settled for $21.6K total.

So, here is the breakdown from my perspective...
$21.6K [recovered from insurance]
+ $15.2K from sale of damaged vehicle
= $36.8K total.

Direct expenses are around $1850 for vehicle teardown, diminished value report and rental car expenses, leaving me with ~$35KI made a deal on a new 2007 TL with nav that is equipped exactly like my '06 (body side moldings, rear deck lid spoiler, front underbody spoiler, moonroof visor, tint) for $39K out the door. $660 of that is for my tags, which I would have had to pay this month anyway.

So, my out of pocket right now is around $3,340 for the new '07. I lost a year's payments but gained a full year of equity and mileage. Coulda used the cash for other things, but all in all I think I came out pretty well.

A few other things worth mentioning...

--It is true that insurance companies do not like to pay diminished value. They are 'disguising' a lot of the payment to me as vehicle repairs and rental car costs "for the duration of the repair." So, although in reality they are paying me ~8K in diminished value, they are recording the payment as ~$15K in repairs and 3K in rental costs -- so I'm guessing less than $4K will show as diminished value on their books. The way they are structuring this payment to me, they are not putting anything out there that can be used as a precedent for a 'fair' future diminished value claim.

--The diminished value expert recommended taking a confrontational approach and asking for the full property damage limits of $25K. I decided instead to accept the advice of my adjustor and try 'partnering' instead: I presented a "repair" and "no repair" scenario, showing how the latter would benefit both parties by fairly compensating me and still keeping the insurance company under limits. I asked for about $1500 more than I really needed, and they came back with $3K under my request. In 5 minutes on the phone, we met in the middle and I got exactly what I wanted in the first place.

--The difference between what the expert estimated and what I was paid in diminished value may be a tax deduction for me next year. Because I sold the vehicle, I'm not sure that is still applicable, but I'm checking into it. If I am able to write off the rest of the diminished value as a loss, then the fee I paid for the diminished value report will also be a deductible expense.

--I still haven't settled my medical claim. I expect that the 'pain and suffering' and 'lost time from work' will probably allow me to at least recoup my $3K out of pocket on the vehicle. In the end, I think I'll break even.

That's it.... Dr. Mar is still Nighthawk Black Pearl with Ebony interior and Nav, just upgraded to '07. I pick up the new car next week.

jonathan.chance

Wow - I'm glad things worked out for you and you're satisfied with the end result.

When I first had my wreck I was uberpissed; but by taking advantage of the situation I'm happier now than I was with my 06.

pandaman1784

Congrats! And i apologize for the discouraging words in the past. I was just echoing what I have read and been told.

DrMar

No need to apologize, Pandaman. In fact, I am very grateful to you. Your posts were thought-provoking and the URLs you listed led me to the advocacy group that prepared the report for me. The claims adjustor referenced the report several times in our phone call. If I hadn't been so well prepared, I doubt I would have done as well as I did.

INSPIRE 32V

iTrader: (1)

not to burst anybody's bubble's or anything but a 06 TL with navi in a insurance auction with a SALVAGE title goes for anywhere between 6k to 10k. i know this cause i have bought 2 in the past Year. Including the one i have now. only way it will sell for 15k is if it has a CLEAN title.

darksom1

All's well that ends NBP!!

ndabunka

What EXACTLY do you do with salvaged cars other than part it out? You mention that you are "driving one now" but in most states you can NOT get a tag for a salvaged car. Is WA different?

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

Actually, there are multiple types of tags, depending on the state. In SC, a salvage title only means that there was enough damage to have an insurance company pay a full claim to buy the vehicle and sell it at auction. Anyone can purchase the vehicle, fix it, and sell it. However, it has now been branded as "previous salvage" so the buyer knows there was some type of issue with it. I believe some states, Florida in particular, can label a car as NON-REBUILDABLE, in most cases they do that on something such as a flood claim, where the car is basically in mint condition, but the owner won't accept a repair, and the insurance company lost their butt big time. I've seen MINT looking BMWs with 200 miles labeled as non-rebuildable due to flood damage. Some unscrupulous dealers would buy a salvaged title car, the non-rebuildable car, and swap VINS. Instantly they have a mint car, with NO record of flood damage, and can say that it was salvaged due to theft.

DrMar

I sold the car 'as is' with a clean title. It wasn't totaled; I just chose not to repair it.

This is always an option, even with a lien on the title. Many people don't realize this or simply can't afford to get out of their current vehicle.

Kostyan

I would have taken 21K, spent 10-12K to fix the car, and applied the rest to pay off the car loan...DrMar- please say your '07 is a type-S....or is it not?

DrMar

Nope, not the S. I just couldn't justify parting with an additional $2K for a 40HP boost.

Kostyan

so you chose to drive an identical car rather than have your old car repaired plus 12K (8K left over from repair bill and 4K in saved car payments). If you had paid for your TL in cash then I could understand what you did, but since you had financed your purchase, the money are tight...what you did, financially was a bad move.

geekybiker

I think I would have just repaired the car. Or at least replaced it with a used non-wrecked one.

You're also eating the tax on a new car by not repairing. But heck you did well enough money wise I guess.