RP YES or No?
09-07-2008, 09:16 PM
#41
I have Mobil 1 Synthetic 10w30...and I did notice a slight hesitation and a loss of mpg... so the engine does not like thicker oil... I'll do RP 5w20 next.
09-07-2008, 09:19 PM
#42
06 WDP / 07 WDP Type-S
eh, you also have '10'W, I don't know how much that differs from 5, but it's supposed to be better for winter, I guess...There has to be something different. I would just go with the 20 since winters around the corner. I'm about raedy to do my oil change also, so I'm gonna go back to 5W20.
09-07-2008, 09:23 PM
#43
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09-08-2008, 02:05 AM
#45
Team Owner
These threads make my head hurt. Nowhere will you find so much bad info as in an oil thread.
No oil in the same weight will ever give you 10hp. 1-3 at best and that can be dyno noise.
With that said, you cannot feel 10hp in a 3,600lb car. No one can. What you people are "feeling" is what you want to feel. You know the new $10/quart oil is in there and you want to feel a difference so you do. It's called the placebo effect.
RP will make an extra hp or two, not because it's "too slippery" but because it has a low HT/HS and will shear down under extreme stress. It temporarily loses it's viscosity giving you more power and more wear. You have to ask yourself if more wear is worth 1-2hp.
Look at some of the used oil analysis in high powered cars on bobistheoilguy.com and see for yourself how horribly it fails to protect when pushed hard. Enough of this guessing, the real world info is there.
It's overpriced crap. There's much better oil for half the price. The only place it has is in a daily driver that isn't pushed hard and only if they lowered the price by half.
I run Amsoil straight 30wt and have yet to see a difference in mileage or power. You can't feel a difference from a 20-30wt. Most 20wts are on the heavy side of their allowance and most 30wts are on the thin side. In reality there's not much difference in viscosity. If we created a 25wt, most would fall into it.
Look at your usage to determine your weight.
Short trips where the oil never reaches full temp or very cold climates- 0-20 or 5-20
Long freeway trips- 5-30 or 10-30
Hard usage and hot climates- 10-30
Don't forget, nothing internally has changed since this engine required 10-30 years ago other than the 5-20 stamped on the oil fill cap.
No oil in the same weight will ever give you 10hp. 1-3 at best and that can be dyno noise.
With that said, you cannot feel 10hp in a 3,600lb car. No one can. What you people are "feeling" is what you want to feel. You know the new $10/quart oil is in there and you want to feel a difference so you do. It's called the placebo effect.
RP will make an extra hp or two, not because it's "too slippery" but because it has a low HT/HS and will shear down under extreme stress. It temporarily loses it's viscosity giving you more power and more wear. You have to ask yourself if more wear is worth 1-2hp.
Look at some of the used oil analysis in high powered cars on bobistheoilguy.com and see for yourself how horribly it fails to protect when pushed hard. Enough of this guessing, the real world info is there.
It's overpriced crap. There's much better oil for half the price. The only place it has is in a daily driver that isn't pushed hard and only if they lowered the price by half.
I run Amsoil straight 30wt and have yet to see a difference in mileage or power. You can't feel a difference from a 20-30wt. Most 20wts are on the heavy side of their allowance and most 30wts are on the thin side. In reality there's not much difference in viscosity. If we created a 25wt, most would fall into it.
Look at your usage to determine your weight.
Short trips where the oil never reaches full temp or very cold climates- 0-20 or 5-20
Long freeway trips- 5-30 or 10-30
Hard usage and hot climates- 10-30
Don't forget, nothing internally has changed since this engine required 10-30 years ago other than the 5-20 stamped on the oil fill cap.
Last edited by I hate cars; 09-08-2008 at 02:07 AM.
09-08-2008, 07:02 PM
#46
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Hey guys i emailed a royal purple rep and this what i got back from him.
Mobil 1 is a good product, but we have been known to out-perform Mobil. Corvette Enthusiast wrote an article comparing Mobil 1 to our oil. They dyno-ed a Corvette and our oil free-ed up 3.8 more horse power and 4.8 lbs of torque over the Mobil 1. That also results in a fuel savings and less wear on your motor.
http://www.royalpurple.com/corvette_enthusiast/corvette_enthusiast.html
Royal Purple Motor Oils are made by Royal Purple and incorporate our advanced additive technology called Synerlec.
This gives our oil 3-4 times the oil film strength to better protect your Honda engine as well as improving performance in both power and fuel efficiency.
We detail on our website at the following link.
http://www.royalpurple.com/rp-performance-advantages.html
RP’s Unique Performance Advantages
Advanced Technology Creates Advanced Products
Royal Purple’s advanced additive technologies, such as Synerlec, enable its products to outperform leading synthetic and conventional lubricants. These unique chemistries strengthen the base oil for improved performance. They also create an ionic bond that adheres to metal parts for continuous protection.
High Film Strength Improves Performance
The film strength of a lubricant is its inherent ability to withstand the effects of load, speed and temperature without breaking down or rupturing, thus enabling the lubricant to maintain an unbroken film between lubricated surfaces under operating conditions. Royal Purple’s high film strength improves combustion to free up more power, optimize fuel economy and reduce emissions. High film strength also dramatically reduces wear.
According to the editors of Hot Rod Magazine, "We’ve torn down some of our dyno engines that have been seriously abused, but with Royal Purple in the pan, the bearings have looked new."
Royal Purple actually improves the condition of metal surfaces by remaining long after pressure would have been squeezed out of ordinary lubricants. Royal Purple responds to increased pressure with increased viscosity. Take a look at the following photos:
A new bearing surface appears smooth until magnified 1500X.
The same bearing surface roughened after using a leading synthetic oil.
The same bearing surface after using Royal Purple.
Extended Oil Life Saves Time, Money and the Environment
Lubricants often have a limited service life due to oxidation which reduces oil’s ability to lubricate. Oil’s ability to resist oxidation is measured by the ASTM’s rigorous Thin Film Oxidation Uptake Test (TFOUT). The test is so severe that it lasts only 1300 minutes. Royal Purple not only surpasses leading mineral- and synthetic-based oils in the test, it also outlasts the duration of the test.
Royal Purple’s superior oxidation stability enable oil changes to be extended up to 12,000 miles or more depending on the equipment. Extending oil change intervals save you time and money. It also reduces the impact on the environment by reducing the amount of oil that has to be produced and disposed of.
Hope you had a great weekend.
Kyle Neal
Technical Sales Representative
1 Royal Purple Lane
Porter, Texas 77365
Mobil 1 is a good product, but we have been known to out-perform Mobil. Corvette Enthusiast wrote an article comparing Mobil 1 to our oil. They dyno-ed a Corvette and our oil free-ed up 3.8 more horse power and 4.8 lbs of torque over the Mobil 1. That also results in a fuel savings and less wear on your motor.
http://www.royalpurple.com/corvette_enthusiast/corvette_enthusiast.html
Royal Purple Motor Oils are made by Royal Purple and incorporate our advanced additive technology called Synerlec.
This gives our oil 3-4 times the oil film strength to better protect your Honda engine as well as improving performance in both power and fuel efficiency.
We detail on our website at the following link.
http://www.royalpurple.com/rp-performance-advantages.html
RP’s Unique Performance Advantages
Advanced Technology Creates Advanced Products
Royal Purple’s advanced additive technologies, such as Synerlec, enable its products to outperform leading synthetic and conventional lubricants. These unique chemistries strengthen the base oil for improved performance. They also create an ionic bond that adheres to metal parts for continuous protection.
High Film Strength Improves Performance
The film strength of a lubricant is its inherent ability to withstand the effects of load, speed and temperature without breaking down or rupturing, thus enabling the lubricant to maintain an unbroken film between lubricated surfaces under operating conditions. Royal Purple’s high film strength improves combustion to free up more power, optimize fuel economy and reduce emissions. High film strength also dramatically reduces wear.
According to the editors of Hot Rod Magazine, "We’ve torn down some of our dyno engines that have been seriously abused, but with Royal Purple in the pan, the bearings have looked new."
Royal Purple actually improves the condition of metal surfaces by remaining long after pressure would have been squeezed out of ordinary lubricants. Royal Purple responds to increased pressure with increased viscosity. Take a look at the following photos:
A new bearing surface appears smooth until magnified 1500X.
The same bearing surface roughened after using a leading synthetic oil.
The same bearing surface after using Royal Purple.
Extended Oil Life Saves Time, Money and the Environment
Lubricants often have a limited service life due to oxidation which reduces oil’s ability to lubricate. Oil’s ability to resist oxidation is measured by the ASTM’s rigorous Thin Film Oxidation Uptake Test (TFOUT). The test is so severe that it lasts only 1300 minutes. Royal Purple not only surpasses leading mineral- and synthetic-based oils in the test, it also outlasts the duration of the test.
Royal Purple’s superior oxidation stability enable oil changes to be extended up to 12,000 miles or more depending on the equipment. Extending oil change intervals save you time and money. It also reduces the impact on the environment by reducing the amount of oil that has to be produced and disposed of.
Hope you had a great weekend.
Kyle Neal
Technical Sales Representative
1 Royal Purple Lane
Porter, Texas 77365
09-08-2008, 08:13 PM
#47
Team Owner
I'm glad you're doing your homework but the e-mail is just the typical pre-written reply that they send to anyone who asks this sort of question.
Again, 3.8hp can be considered at the noise level on the dyno.
Look at the real world UOAs after being run hard and see what you think. If I had a Corolla that didn't get driven hard and RP was $2.50 a quart I would probably use it.
They cite film strength but the HT/HS is very low for it's kinematic viscosity. HT/HS is a very good real world test and I think it's more important than absolute viscosity. I use Amsoil ACD 30wt because it's a relatively thin 30wt at 10.5 but has a HT/HS of 3.5 which is as good as some 40wts. I have a link somewhere where GM did tests on the 3.8L and showed how wear at the main and rod bearings was directly related to HT/HS.
Again, 3.8hp can be considered at the noise level on the dyno.
Look at the real world UOAs after being run hard and see what you think. If I had a Corolla that didn't get driven hard and RP was $2.50 a quart I would probably use it.
They cite film strength but the HT/HS is very low for it's kinematic viscosity. HT/HS is a very good real world test and I think it's more important than absolute viscosity. I use Amsoil ACD 30wt because it's a relatively thin 30wt at 10.5 but has a HT/HS of 3.5 which is as good as some 40wts. I have a link somewhere where GM did tests on the 3.8L and showed how wear at the main and rod bearings was directly related to HT/HS.
09-09-2008, 12:56 PM
#48
05' AT SSM
Last oil change i bought 5 quarts of 5w-20 Royal Purple. Like after doing any oil change the car runs smoother, big surprise ^^.
@ $7 bucks a quart i hope something magical is happening under my hood, unfortunately i can't tell a difference.
I used 5w-20 because the oil cap and manual said 5w-20, not sure why everyone else is using 10w-20.
I guess i chose RP because its all the local Honda Dealership stocks, which i found strange but cool.
@ $7 bucks a quart i hope something magical is happening under my hood, unfortunately i can't tell a difference.
I used 5w-20 because the oil cap and manual said 5w-20, not sure why everyone else is using 10w-20.
I guess i chose RP because its all the local Honda Dealership stocks, which i found strange but cool.
09-09-2008, 01:44 PM
#49
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I read an article once and it was a comparison of all the different types of oil. I will try to find it again and give you the link to read for yourself. but They tested all the oils and measured somehow which on was better, as far as im concerned it was a very accurate test, and it showed either amms oil or royal purple was the best. cant remember which one.
09-09-2008, 02:50 PM
#50
Team Owner
Last oil change i bought 5 quarts of 5w-20 Royal Purple. Like after doing any oil change the car runs smoother, big surprise ^^.
@ $7 bucks a quart i hope something magical is happening under my hood, unfortunately i can't tell a difference.
I used 5w-20 because the oil cap and manual said 5w-20, not sure why everyone else is using 10w-20.
I guess i chose RP because its all the local Honda Dealership stocks, which i found strange but cool.
@ $7 bucks a quart i hope something magical is happening under my hood, unfortunately i can't tell a difference.
I used 5w-20 because the oil cap and manual said 5w-20, not sure why everyone else is using 10w-20.
I guess i chose RP because its all the local Honda Dealership stocks, which i found strange but cool.
Think about it this way, at 60 degrees, a 20wt might be 80wt. At 75 degrees a 30wt might be 80wt. Viscosity is rated at 100C. If you're running the car hard or live in a hot climate and the oil heats up another 10-20 degrees, your 30weight is now as thin as a 20wt is at normal operating temps.
Technically, a 5-30 and 5-20 have the same cold viscosity and at some point during the warmup, the 20 thins out more than the 30. Generally speaking the closer the cold and hot numbers are together, the more resistant to shear the oil it. That's why in my climate, I use a straight 30 as in a 30-30. All else being equal (which it is not always equal) a 10-30 should offer more shear resistance than a 5-30.
Besides, there's no reason to use a 0-20 except in very cold climates or if the car is for extremely short trips.
09-09-2008, 03:58 PM
#51
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I run Amsoil straight 30wt and have yet to see a difference in mileage or power. You can't feel a difference from a 20-30wt. Most 20wts are on the heavy side of their allowance and most 30wts are on the thin side. In reality there's not much difference in viscosity. If we created a 25wt, most would fall into it.
Look at your usage to determine your weight.
Short trips where the oil never reaches full temp or very cold climates- 0-20 or 5-20
Long freeway trips- 5-30 or 10-30
Hard usage and hot climates- 10-30
Don't forget, nothing internally has changed since this engine required 10-30 years ago other than the 5-20 stamped on the oil fill cap.
Look at your usage to determine your weight.
Short trips where the oil never reaches full temp or very cold climates- 0-20 or 5-20
Long freeway trips- 5-30 or 10-30
Hard usage and hot climates- 10-30
Don't forget, nothing internally has changed since this engine required 10-30 years ago other than the 5-20 stamped on the oil fill cap.
09-09-2008, 04:19 PM
#52
Team Owner
As far as most wear occuring during starup, that's been proven wrong. Most wear occurs during warmup, the time from the cold start somewhere near full operating temp. Also, there's just about no difference in how quickly a 10-30 and 5-20 gets to parts. Pressure is nearly instantaneous no matter what you use, our oil pumps are a positive displacement pump meaning it's pumping the same volume of oil no matter what the weight.
Think about this, assuming a 5-20 and 10-30 get to parts at about the same time, would you want a thinner or thicker oil film on those parts for that split second it takes for pressure to arrive?
09-09-2008, 04:39 PM
#54
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09-09-2008, 04:52 PM
#56
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Heres the link to an independent test. Read the whole thing, its very interesting. I think Royal Purple is THE best oil after reading this. http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf
09-09-2008, 05:04 PM
#57
Team Owner
Heres the link to an independent test. Read the whole thing, its very interesting. I think Royal Purple is THE best oil after reading this. http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf
The scar test means absolutely nothing. Please tell me which parts in your engine simulate the scar test. Even in a flat tappet motor, the lifters rotate as they are lifted and that's the closest thing in an engine to the scar test. I would rather have an engine with a high HT/HS that keeps the crank floated in the bearings rather than something that performs well in a scar test.
Again, look at real world data from real engines. Do you trust a scar test or an actual engine teardown?
There are much more realistic tests out there.
