EZZ

You can't compare the 530 to the TL because there is a HUGE horsepower difference between the two. The 530 is a luxo cruiser and isn't tuned to handle in that capacity. Why don't you compare the TL to its closest competitor, the G35. The G35 had a good 2mph faster through the slalom. Thats significantly faster.

If you look at FWD type-Rs, they can keep up with anything in its class but FWD does have a weakness when the horsepower gets around 300.

Xpditor

I agree with all you said with the exception of the 530i with a Sport Package being a luxo cruiser.

Here's what BMW's website says about the 530i:

The graceful beauty of the new 530i exterior is the first hint that you are in the presence of perfection. Powered by a 3-liter, 225-hp inline-six engine with Double VANOS valve timing, the 2004 530i sets a new benchmark for performance and agility. Industry-leading safety systems, enhanced performance features, and an expanded interior add up to unparalleled control, comfort, and peace of mind.


530i Sedan Highlights
6-Speed Manual Transmission
iDrive Controller
BMW Assist
Active Cruise Control
Adaptive Headlight
Active Roll Stabilization
Frontal-Offset Crash Test (end of BMW site excerpt)

BMW promotes the 530i as a performance machine as witness the standard 6 speed manual tranny. Then, if you tack on the Sports Package and go for the bigger wheels, tires, shocks, sway bars, etc. you are building BMW's bread-and-butter sports sedan. The 745 is a luxo-cruiser (no manual) and the 3 series is a compact sport sedan much smaller than our TL.

Acura admits that the BMW 530i Sport was its target in redesigning the TL. They have exceeded their goal. If you download the two data panels from the April issue of Road and Track, then overlap them, you will see that the two cars are nearly identical in dimension, shape, room, etc. Where they differ, that difference is in fractions of an inch.

If we want to compare the TL with a BMW, which model do you think would be more appropriate? Or, don't you think we should compare them? Just trying to understand where you're coming from.

I was ready to buy the 04 530i until I saw it. I was way turned off by the Bangledized styling. I felt sick. I much prefer the looks of the 2003. I then turned to TL and was not disappointed. The G35 Coupe was a close runner-up for about the same money.



XP

Aegir

Because that's the car the TL was built to beat - in handling:

"From a handling standpoint, the toughest target in the TL segment is the BMW 530i Sport. The new TL chassis was engineered to challenge this comparison favorite." - Acura

530i not tuned to handle? Huh? The 530i handles very well and is a self-proclaimed "Ultimate Driving Machine". Sorry about the horsepower difference. I encourage BMW to fix that. Horsepower doesn't do much for slalom times though. A Mini Cooper if probably faster through the slalom than all of the cars mentioned here.

EZZ

The BMW 530i is not tuned for slalom runs. The m3 or z4 is better in that department It really is a pretty softly tuned car compared to the TL (IMO). Same with the G35 coupe. My G coupe is extremely rough (way worse than TL) but I bet it'll out-handle the TL. I think the TL is the right compromise for a lot of people but I also think the 530 is also tuned right for its target audience.

dcarlinf1

Great story XP. I enjoyed reading it. You mentioned passing on the right. What are the facts about doing that? Is it illegal? My wife doesn't like it when I do it, but at times I must because people won't yeild.

EZZ

Does it matter if it is illegal? I bet most people speed all the time which is also illegal. The better question would be, is it dangerous? I find passing on the right to be much more dangerous and I am aware of my surroundings every time I do it (which isn't too often). I agree with you though in that often, it is necessary to do so.

Aquineas

It's legal (and in many cases mandatory) in Texas. People have this habit here of plopping their pickup trucks or big-assed Seats Usually Vacant vehicles down in the left lane and staying there. I come into work before 6:30am, when traffic is still light to moderate, and even then, you're very likely to see someone on the expressway doing 60ish in the left lane with not a soul in front of them, and no desire or awareness of moving over.

ensley696

Totally agree with you here. I travel along I-75 and I-10 quite a bit and I can not remember the number of times I have had some idiot hog the left lane at a much slower speed than the right lane. Its like they have no CLUE. Also, if someone comes into the left lane to pass the right traffic, they should speed up to the left lanes speed to keep the damm flow of traffic moving, but they don't do that either. This and merging and NO TURN signal are my 3 biggest pet peeves when driving.

Xpditor

Here are the skid pad and and slalom numbers for BMW 330i: 0.86 and 65.4 (both slower than the TL which is .87 and 65.8 mph)

Here are the skid pad and slalom numbers for the BMW M5: 0.85 and 66.4 (less grip than the TL and .6 mph faster in slalom)

Here are the numbers for M3 SMG: .87 and 68.3 (identical grip and 2.5 mph faster than TL in slalom)

Are you starting to see a pattern here? You don't want to compare the base TL with a Sport Package BMW of the same size because... why? It's not fair? We should compare it with the M's or the Z sport car? That is so flattering to the TL it makes me glow with pride. Those are world class sport cars! I assume that you will agree that the M5 is not a typical "luxo-cruiser" for $73,000.

Want more?

G35 Sedan: .86 and 65mph (nearly the same as RWD 330i but not as good as TL)
G35 Coupe: .92 and 67.7 (very impressive and expected for this fine 2 dr)
Z4 3.0:..........92 and 67.0 (a purpose built sport car, tho not as good as G35 Coupe)

Hello world! Time to rethink that which has been pounded into our heads about the defficiencies of FWD. This is 2004. This FWD Acura TL, mid-size luxury sedan, with comfort and convenience for 5 adults, costing under $35,000 is running with the Big Dawgs and beating most of them at their own games. When are you going to give it its props?

Please write back and tell me, "Yeah, but an Enzo Ferrari handles better." and "Yeah, but a Maybach has more room in the back seat". I love it when our TL is compared with those fine automobiles, even if it comes up a couple red p. hairs short.

We won't even get into "bang for the buck". That's another discussion.

XP
(Can you tell I my TL?)

EZZ

Skidpad is just an indication of how well your tires grip. I completely agree with you that the 530 is no match for the TL in the slalom. My original assertion was that it wasn't tuned for that purpose plus it has less horspower. The M5 has a plush ride also yet uses its huge hp advantage to out slalom the TL (my old boss has one and its a great ride). The Slalom has a lot to do with tuning and the tires. That is why the G35 coupe outran the sedan even though both ride on the same chassis (comes with 18s and a slightly stiffer suspension). That is also why slalom numbers don't tell the whole story about handling. The IS300 will outhandle a G35...trust me, both cars are in my household. It got significantly less in the slalom (horsepower disadvantage and less aggressive tires) but take it through an autocross and the G will get slammed.

The TL handles good but not great I and many others have come to the same conclusion (as evidenced by ALL of the critics). I'm NOT bashing the TL. I'm trying to be objective about the handling differences between RWD and FWD and yes, I truly can feel the difference. Take the TL in an autocross even and see if it can hang with a G35 or 330. I bet it can't due to its FWD limitations (same level driver of course).

dcarlinf1

I was just interested in getting the smokey's opinion so I asked if it was legal. You are right, the real question is if it's dangerous or not. Personally, I don't think it's all that dangerous if you are careful about it. I do it ALL THE TIME. Which doesn't make it right but I am confident in doing it. I give the left lane blocker a few seconds to get over and if he doesn't I move on. What about multi lane highways with more than 2 lanes? It almost becomes a requirement then if you are going to make any progress. Again, it wouldn't even be an issue if people would just "keep right except to pass".

One more pet peave is people that don't use the on-ramps the way they are intended. Again, you have to ask yourself, why are on-ramps an 1/8 mile or even a 1/4 mile long? I'll tell you why. It's so you can get up to speed to merge safely. You will be much safer merging if you are going the same speed as those already on the freeway. If you are trying to merge at 10, 15 or 20 MPH slower you become the safety hazard. It's so simple really. I can't believe people refuse to use their brains and realize this simple concept.

Sorry for hijacking this thread BTW.

Later

takuyaah

dcarlin1 i agree that you shouldn't merge with 20mph or something..thats just stupid...but in san diego, CA...we never really have any 1/4 mile onramp or anything like that..maybe 1/8 mile if you are lucky...mind that not everyone drives a 2004 TL.....i personally have difficulty building up speed...i usually get to around 60 or 65 by the time i get to the merging sections..(not all the time...some onramps are really short) ....of course i still have to look to get behind some cars or try to adjust speed so that i can get in...but there are some assholes out there...like to block you out for some weird reasons..like...you saw my turn signal for a while now..why did you try to speed up and get next to me? i really don't understand those people..

i have multiple times...MERGED into the right lane already...and some cars sped up to my ass..just to show me that i made them slow down...god..i was going 65...i can do that on my right lane..can't i? its not like i am doing 65 anywhere else

EZZ

Don't you know that in San Diego, EVERY LANE is the passing lane Have you noticed that San Diego drivers get suckier every year. I remember when they actually drove like normal people, now they think they're in LA :o

youngTL

You think those drivers are bad? Edmonton drivers are the worst! SO many people try and block you out or cut in front of you. There is no concept of passing lanes or slow lanes here. For example, you're going down a 3 lane city road (common here), with a posted speed limit of 60km/h or 70km/h. There are people driving 80km/h, in their big Dodge RAM 3500 trucks (there are so so so many trucks on the road, more than 50% of all vehicles here are trucks), and the prepare to stop lights start flashing before a major intersection. I slow down as soon as I see these (I'm usually in the center lane). The big truck behind me thinks I'm going too slow for him as soon as I begin to slow below the speed limit (there's no point in wasting gas speeding up to a red light), and then he goes into either lane and burns past me and cuts ahead in front of me, which ruins my chances of getting through the light as it turns green (I do that to save gas too). In heavy or medium, or even light traffic, people here will "lane divide", which means if there is an open lane with nobody at the front of it at the red light, people will change out of the other lanes just so they can be the first.

NightRider

The point of this thread? Everyone can be an idiot sometimes including ourselves, intentionally or not.

Xpditor

The traffic laws in most states are the same. That's why they call it the Uniform Vehicle Traffic Code. States do have their little differences.

In general, the law says that a car should be driven as close to the right edge of the road as possible with a few exceptions: making a left turn, a multiple lane one-way street, overtaking and passing.

When a car overtakes another car (comes up from behind at a faster pace), and when he signals the overtaken car either audibly or with a flashing of headlights, the overtaken car is obliged to yield to the overtaking car and move as far to the right as is safe under the circumstances. Not yielding is not an option.

However, under the section of the code under "overtaking and passing", it is NOT illegal to pass a car on the right- again under certain circumstances (e.g. a car is making a left turn on a three lane, two-way roadway). If there are two or more lanes going in each direction, it is not illegal to pass a slower car on the right when the view is unobstructed and it is safe to do so. When you think about it in terms of a four lane city street (instead of highway), it's easy to understand why this is permitted.

That doesn't make it wise or safe to do on the open road. Because of the law and its requirement to only do so when it is safe, if you have a crash- that crash is evidence that it wasn't safe! (We don't call them "accidents" anymore because that implies nobody was at fault. The theory is that if everyone were obeying the traffic code, there would never be a crash. Many departments REQUIRE that a ticket be issued at every crash scene.)

A general rule of traffic I always keep in mind is that you "own" the lane you are in. No one is allowed to push you out of it or interfere with your progress. If you choose to leave "your" lane and go into someone else's, it is your obligation to yield to all other traffic and not to impede their progress and their safety envelope. If a crash occurs and one car is traveling in "their" lane, and the other car was coming into that lane from another, they are at fault because they didn't yield. That's why some drivers are reluctant to change lanes- especially seniors who find it difficult to turn around and look in their blind spot. So they sit there in the "passing lane"- and drive me right up the wall while violating the requirement to yield to the passing vehicle.

XP

EZZ

Great info XP. Thanks.

Xpditor

You're very welcome.

XP

optiq

i have a tls and i always drive fast to catch up to the 04's :-D but i usually smile and nod my head when i pass em

VOdoc

I too am sorry for hijacking this thread, but there is much truth here that transcends the TL experience. Thanks for the law enforcement perspective BTW, XP.

My high school driver ed teacher impressed upon me:

If you're being passed on the right, you're in the wrong.

Words to live by.

dcarlinf1

Thanks XP. Great explanation. Plus it seems my assumptions/opinions are pretty well in line with the law. I do drive pretty fast and at times aggressively. But, I always try to be considerate and safe at the same time. Thanks again.