Raced a G37S
04-07-2009, 09:16 PM
#161
Senior Moderator
Dude, just take your TL to the strip and get a slip. Seriously, I'm curious to know your times since you're hanging with e46 M3's and 335i's (BTW the auto is actually quicker than the stick by a hair). Those are both genuine 105-106 mph cars vs a stock TL 6MT at ~98.
So that's why that is350 hauls ass down low. 4.08 final drive FTW. I see it starts to fall off between 110-120 though.
So that's why that is350 hauls ass down low. 4.08 final drive FTW. I see it starts to fall off between 110-120 though.
Talk of how quick one can run vs the competition is fairly cheap until one posts a timeslip. At best, a stock TL 6MT could post 100mph traps (which is quick) but way off the mark of what the 335i and E46 M3 typically post at the track.
04-07-2009, 09:27 PM
#162
Burning Brakes
First off, why do people assume the A-spec TL is faster than a regular TL? Is it because MT got a better ET out of it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the A-spec package simply a body kit, springs, and sticky tires? I've never heard anything about an ECU flash and it's power is unchanged vs a regular TL.
Because it goes into an ultra tall 5th gear at around 110mph. That's why acceleration plumments. Super deep gearing in 1st thru 3rd plus an underrated motor (make closer to 330hp) is why the IS is so brutal from 0-100mph. Awesome car. Period.
Better ETs? Maybe a little bit and not NEAR as much as most FWD owners want to believe. The G (auto or 6MT) is a very tricky car to launch and most guys are stuck in the higher 2.2s with them, especially the 6MTs. Rarely do you hear of a G owner getting their 60 foots into lower 2.1 range. The TL 6MT should easily be able to get into the lower 2.2s and a decent driver should be able to put it into the mid 2.1s. The problem is there aren't a lot of TL that drag race their cars so you get a small sample of what the car is capable of. On slicks or DRs, the playing field is level between the two cars. There are many Maxima/Altima owners pulling 1.7-1.9 60 foots on DRs/slicks so the 6MT TL should be able to do the same.
You also need to remember there is a higher drivetrain loss with RWD since the car has to spin an additional 3 foot driveshaft.
As for MPH, there will be no real change. MPH is simply available HP. You're TL will run a 15.2@100mph with a 2.7 60 foot or a 14.4@100mph with a 2.2 60 foot. ET is thing that changes. MPH will stay within less than 1mph.
Most importantly, the TL is not RWD so the argument in pointless here. However, I've argued for years that the TL would be an absolute killer if it were RWD. We know Honda can do RWD. Seeing how well they make FWD cars handle, I could only imagine the capabilities of a RWD TL. THAT IS THE CAR THAT WOULD DETHROWN THE 3 SERIES.......assuming it doesn't look like the current model and they give it a little extra juice. I drive a G because it's the closest thing I can get to a 3 series.
What about the IS, it puts the other cars to shame, why does it drop off 0-120 mph?
It's not just launch, it's weight transfer. FWD front to back, RWD rear to front. It doesn't apply to the 1/4 mile, or trap. If the TL was RWD do you think it would make higher traps and put up better times?
You also need to remember there is a higher drivetrain loss with RWD since the car has to spin an additional 3 foot driveshaft.
As for MPH, there will be no real change. MPH is simply available HP. You're TL will run a 15.2@100mph with a 2.7 60 foot or a 14.4@100mph with a 2.2 60 foot. ET is thing that changes. MPH will stay within less than 1mph.
Most importantly, the TL is not RWD so the argument in pointless here. However, I've argued for years that the TL would be an absolute killer if it were RWD. We know Honda can do RWD. Seeing how well they make FWD cars handle, I could only imagine the capabilities of a RWD TL. THAT IS THE CAR THAT WOULD DETHROWN THE 3 SERIES.......assuming it doesn't look like the current model and they give it a little extra juice. I drive a G because it's the closest thing I can get to a 3 series.
Last edited by Dave_B; 04-07-2009 at 09:31 PM.
04-07-2009, 09:49 PM
#163
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (2)
I don't know about the IS350 making 330 at the crank. Most of them dyno in the 255-260 range stock, which is right in line with an efficient RWD that makes low 300's crank. With intake and a catback they usually see ~270.
04-07-2009, 11:56 PM
#165
No offense to anyone, but this racing forum is bogus. Nothing but G drivers. What does that say, I have never purposely went to G forum, and never found the need to post there. These guys post more than the actual members here, what does that say. You guys could witness it first hand, and still find a way to try and discredit it. No G driver has brought up a single valid point outside of comparing magazines and forum times, or personal attacks. Honest question, why are you here?, I know I would get nothing but shet if I went to one of your forums, so I don't find a need to go there, for any reason. I don't want to come off rude, nor should forums, be like this, but what do you expect is going to happen? Atleast I plead a case for my TL in the "Acura" forum. You write off that what I say is crap, that's fine, no one can take that away from you, but we have experiences and we have opinions too, and the most important thing is, we voice them where they belong.
First, there are two G drivers that frequent this part of the forum. Me and Dave_B. no need for exaggerations. I'm sure people pay attention to who drives what. Second, Dave_B has contributed so much knowledge on this forum than most people that post in the racing section and I'm sure a lot of people here can attest to that. Dave_B has more than just the magazine articles and forum times, how about REAL WORLD experiences at the strip?
I for one go here because my first car was a 2001 NBP CL-S 5AT so there should be no reason for me not to come here. I'm a car enthusiast and Acurazine is one of the many online forums I have joined. I'm just more active on here than others since I used to own a Acura. Also its an online automotive community people will come here with different cars and opinions whether you like it or not. At least we're not trolling.
I'm done posting on this thread since it became too personal and would hope this thread doesn't get locked (unlike the other) because it has a lot of good information in it.
04-08-2009, 01:17 AM
#166
Alright, do you see what is happening here, everyone is pulling their best work. Lots of facts, times, all that good stuff, no offense but this is how a vs thread should be. Ya, we're gotta throw a few darts, nothing personal, it's just for arguments sake. What do you expect, we're human? This has become a good thread. That is what makes a good thread. Mod baby, I'm gonna sell this thing for you, you're gonna be the best damn Acura site on the net, get your sponors in here. Let's just lighten the mood a llittle. Hey Mod, do you know I know the guy who biult the new Shea, personally, want me see if I can swing a few tickets, lux box? wink wink
04-08-2009, 02:31 AM
#167
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Last year I did an average power calc for the TLS and G35HR. The HR about an extra 15whp spread over about an additional 800rpm of useable power. Basically this meant that in every gear, the G had a little more to work with. As the gears got longer, the advantage became more apparent. The G's 0.26-0.27 Cd doesn't hurt things either. I've never driven a TLS, but judging from the dynos I've seen, it's power is strong and immediate so it's going to very powerful. The G35HR isn't going to feel as immediate, but it's going to pull longer in every gear. That's where the advantage comes from.
04-08-2009, 04:31 AM
#168
Dave, you are the magazine king, I didn't know MT covered the A-spec, seriously, just kidding. The A-spec gives the driver more margin for error. You don't really need a performance upgrade to run a better time, you do for a better trap. All the cosmetics, maybe a small improvement in CD, are a non factor. The important stuff was the springs and wheels. Half inch drop was big. I put on ps2's, which happened to be phenomenal, plus they offset the weight of the 18's, maybe made each a pound lighter and were a few mm shorter of rolling diameter vs stock, not a deal breaker, just putting it out there. It tightened up the front drive, transfer to the wheels felt more direct and less frenetic, and it was easier to launch higher, maybe easier than the S, it depends on tires. If your runs are consistent, it will improve your time. Overall, less roll, lift, brake dive, wheel hop, you name it. But for the record, the S is like another car completely, just dressed as a TL.
So the trap is largely unaffected by the lauch, but it can be affected by the diver's shift points. I will admit, I may have been a better driver, that may explain things a little, but a few rpm's off and that much seperation?
Not for nothing, Nova, but I don't drive at the track on an everyday basis, but I do drive on the street. When you talk about a street race, it is essentially the same as the track, minus the slip. If you take times from here and times from there and compare them, you can't possibly take into affect every variation, track, magazine, or forum, so it's not 100% accurate, in comparison. The street race is a race, and because of that you don't need a slip or really have to account for anything more than the drivers, just like is done at the track, only at the track if it's not done at the same time, side by side, it is really no better. Winning is winning, I dont care how it's done or by how much, or if it's a 1/4 or a 1/2 mile. I like to get technical about it, it's an interesting topic for discussion here, but I don't think it can be argued anymore than that, I was there, I know it happened, if you don't buy it, that's your problem.
So the trap is largely unaffected by the lauch, but it can be affected by the diver's shift points. I will admit, I may have been a better driver, that may explain things a little, but a few rpm's off and that much seperation?
Not for nothing, Nova, but I don't drive at the track on an everyday basis, but I do drive on the street. When you talk about a street race, it is essentially the same as the track, minus the slip. If you take times from here and times from there and compare them, you can't possibly take into affect every variation, track, magazine, or forum, so it's not 100% accurate, in comparison. The street race is a race, and because of that you don't need a slip or really have to account for anything more than the drivers, just like is done at the track, only at the track if it's not done at the same time, side by side, it is really no better. Winning is winning, I dont care how it's done or by how much, or if it's a 1/4 or a 1/2 mile. I like to get technical about it, it's an interesting topic for discussion here, but I don't think it can be argued anymore than that, I was there, I know it happened, if you don't buy it, that's your problem.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 04-08-2009 at 04:35 AM.
04-08-2009, 06:57 AM
#169
Senior Moderator
Dave, you are the magazine king, I didn't know MT covered the A-spec, seriously, just kidding. The A-spec gives the driver more margin for error. You don't really need a performance upgrade to run a better time, you do for a better trap. All the cosmetics, maybe a small improvement in CD, are a non factor. The important stuff was the springs and wheels. Half inch drop was big. I put on ps2's, which happened to be phenomenal, plus they offset the weight of the 18's, maybe made each a pound lighter and were a few mm shorter of rolling diameter vs stock, not a deal breaker, just putting it out there. It tightened up the front drive, transfer to the wheels felt more direct and less frenetic, and it was easier to launch higher, maybe easier than the S, it depends on tires. If your runs are consistent, it will improve your time. Overall, less roll, lift, brake dive, wheel hop, you name it. But for the record, the S is like another car completely, just dressed as a TL.
So the trap is largely unaffected by the lauch, but it can be affected by the diver's shift points. I will admit, I may have been a better driver, that may explain things a little, but a few rpm's off and that much seperation?
Not for nothing, Nova, but I don't drive at the track on an everyday basis, but I do drive on the street. When you talk about a street race, it is essentially the same as the track, minus the slip. If you take times from here and times from there and compare them, you can't possibly take into affect every variation, track, magazine, or forum, so it's not 100% accurate, in comparison. The street race is a race, and because of that you don't need a slip or really have to account for anything more than the drivers, just like is done at the track, only at the track if it's not done at the same time, side by side, it is really no better. Winning is winning, I dont care how it's done or by how much, or if it's a 1/4 or a 1/2 mile. I like to get technical about it, it's an interesting topic for discussion here, but I don't think it can be argued anymore than that, I was there, I know it happened, if you don't buy it, that's your problem.
So the trap is largely unaffected by the lauch, but it can be affected by the diver's shift points. I will admit, I may have been a better driver, that may explain things a little, but a few rpm's off and that much seperation?
Not for nothing, Nova, but I don't drive at the track on an everyday basis, but I do drive on the street. When you talk about a street race, it is essentially the same as the track, minus the slip. If you take times from here and times from there and compare them, you can't possibly take into affect every variation, track, magazine, or forum, so it's not 100% accurate, in comparison. The street race is a race, and because of that you don't need a slip or really have to account for anything more than the drivers, just like is done at the track, only at the track if it's not done at the same time, side by side, it is really no better. Winning is winning, I dont care how it's done or by how much, or if it's a 1/4 or a 1/2 mile. I like to get technical about it, it's an interesting topic for discussion here, but I don't think it can be argued anymore than that, I was there, I know it happened, if you don't buy it, that's your problem.
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