Silva-type-s

iTrader: (3)

You mean begging for trouble. thats just plain wreckless.

nova_G

says the guy with the avatar going 150mph haha. 150 is fine... as long as its not 180 LOL. just messin with you but i hope that wasnt on a public road right?!

I hate cars

A 10 second pass in the TL is something like 70mph lol. I'm not talking about a real 10 second at over 126mph pass on the street. That would be reckless though I hear it's been done before under the right conditions....

Sonnick

Silva-type-s

iTrader: (3)

Naw i was on the FL Turnpike at about 6:45 on a sunday morning. After you get a wreckless driving ticket, things start to register in your mind (other peoples lives & safety) before you street race and thats y i dont unless in on the express way and even if im on the express way before i start to cut in and out of traffic and even use the shoulder to overtake, i simply quit. Most races happen between people that never met each other so after you win or lose you dont really care cuz you may never see that person again.

Silva-type-s

iTrader: (3)

lol.

i knew what you meant. and if it has been done, thats pretty insane.. What exacly are the right conditions for a street pull like that? in the street a million things can happen to throw a driver off and cause an accident as opposed to a track where most of the variables are already taken into consideration.

I hate cars

Deserted stretch of straight flat road. Even with the normal crown on the road you can't really run it all out. If you run over spit it will spin lol.

Silva-type-s

iTrader: (3)

lol. spit usually evaporates quickly on deserted stretches. when i did my 150mph run the reflectors in the road made me grip the steering wheel tighter everytime i ran over one snd the small dips in the road made me

winstrolvtec

As far as credible, yes good point, but one magazine time compared to another, or forum, independant of each other is good comparison, but at least a street race is an actual race, at the same time, same conditions, etc. When you look at it that way, only the track might be better, and still doesn't account for drop, roll or any high speed advantage. Driver plays no different role street or track, if the details can be confirmed than credibility is not an issue

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Ya, that's true if there's more hp, torque and a better powerband. But according to Dave, the VQ35HR doesn't have any of those as it makes 255whp, 220wtq with a flat torque curve. The TL-S makes 253whp and 229wtq, and it also has a flat torque curve.

winstrolvtec

^And the TLS is 100 lbs lighter than the newer g35 sedans, and weighs exactly the same as the coupes.

nova_G

Well in all honesty I don't street race so accounting for drop, roll or high speed advantage means nothing to me. I've learned my lessons at an early age I guess.

Silva-type-s

iTrader: (3)

early age? bruh you're 20. you must have done some crazy sh*t in the past 4 years? lol

nova_G

age has nothing to do with it IMO. I've had a few speeding tickets and a reckless. I am not willing to loose my license for a street race. I have responsibilities that are necessary for me to drive and just cant justify loosing them because of my recklessness.

Silva-type-s

iTrader: (3)

I hear ya. ive done some dumb things too and learned alot from experiences. i'm still paying off legal fees

Dave_B

I'm not pissed, but your logic and automotive knowledge is lacking and flawed. You clearly don't understand gearing, power under the curve, and powerbands in general.

Dave_B

From a roll, the TLS will get walked. Why do you keep debating this? The G has more power and a fatter powerband. A 1 second advantage to 120mph is a killing. You're infamous roll-on race is right in the R&T article I posted. It takes the G 14.1 seconds to go from 60 to 120mph. It takes the TL 15.1 seconds. Like I've said before, the performance between the 07/08 G35 and 08+ coupe is the same therefore the results will be the same. From a stop or roll, the G (coupe or sedan) will be faster.

BTW going by how fast a car "feels" is worthless as well. Acceleration Gs after 40mph are minimal unless you're driving something with serious power (ie 400hp+). Gearing, powerband, and power under the curve all play a roll here. Years ago I had a modded 94 Z28 with the LT1 motor. A friend had a new 98 Z28 with the LS1 motor and another friend had a 90 LX 5.0 notch with 3.73 gears, catback, and free mods. The 90 LX felt faster than my Z because it was geared so deep; however, in race my LT1 walked that thing. Especially above 70mph. Above 110mph it was a joke. I was convinced my LT1 was as fast as my friend's 98 Z28. I was wrong. That thing walked my LT1 decently above 80mph. The LS1 felt quite a bit slower than my LT1, but the truth was revealed first had. At the strip, he was .3 and 3mph faster.

Dave_B

Everyone, please know that I'm not a G nutswinger. I'm just trying to set the record straight. I have nothing against the TL except that the new TL is the biggest design mistake in Acura's history

I hate cars

You've never come across that way, always open minded.

You will come to realize as I did that facts won't get in the way of feeling on this board. I gave up a long time ago.

Sonnick

Lol. I agree the new TL is ..expect in the commercial

winstrolvtec

Dave, I wouldn't necessarily say I'm flawed or lacking, a little harsh, no? I do know how I sound though, I can't explain it to words properly. I appreciate your input, but just be open minded to the fact that I am telling the truth. I wouldn't spent this much time or effort if I was lying? Would anyone for that matter? I don't really like this, but let's just say for arguments sake the TLS ran the Car & Driver time of 14.1 @ 101mph. You can honestly say, that the 0-120 mph, wouldn't have been affected? What about the IS, it puts the other cars to shame, why does it drop off 0-120 mph? I do know the difference in feel, I have owned a civic si and an rsx-s, those cars are torque less, didn't feel as fast as others, but out accelerated them. Your experience relates to mine, he swore his car felt a lot faster, it did, but I always pulled, I can't explain it. I can't say it's driver, sometimes we only went 2 gears, already rolling. When we investigated, we could only explain that his 4th+ felt good but didn't seem to cover as much ground when run all the way, and the TL, the opposite, does that make sense? For what it's worth, we have also been in a 3-way with the last gen M3, I think auto + 1 other passenger, and we both pulled it over 100, I was behind, becuase it was only 2 lanes and pulled right to their bumpers, through 4th, as they were going, also from a drop. I do want you to remember that TL was an 04 a-spec MT stock and his g35 an 03 6 MT, with injen cold and stillen exhaust. As for my TLS, it ran even with a 335i, probably auto, from a drop at 80 mph to over 130 mph, twice. I swear I was inching away each time. I can honestly say it was common on both, so it was not just a freak motor. I have thought of every possible explanation, and that was all I can come up with, no point in dragging this out, so if you want you can try, or anyone, that's why I'm here. Oh, and I am generally heavier by about 40 lbs, so that offset the lighter 04 TL. And give some thought to the fact that the TLS is lighter than the G35 sedan by 100 lbs and puts down the same hp, a little more tq too.

winstrolvtec

The only other thing that comes to mind is driving habits and style. My cars get about 60+ miles, almost everyday, of highway, 70-90 mph. The G was all city and rarely went past 60 mph, as are most cars in big cities. I highly doubt this, but want feedback anyway.

TeknoKing

^ effen paragraphs! and behave man, you've already closed one thread!

You should know better being here since 03.

Silva-type-s

iTrader: (3)

okay........ someone needs a

winstrolvtec

Dude, you're right. And for the record I want to apologize, but you don't understand, and that's cool, no one probably will. Hypothetically, if you were accused of rape or murder, and you know you didn't do it, and felt like you might be the only one who could make a case for yourself, how would you feel? Frustrated. Mostly, becuase people will not be or won't be willing to be more open minded. I don't think right or wrong, I don't see black or white, grey areas exist in all phases of life. I thought that since becuase I've been here since 03, I would be treated as a source of good credibility, but I'm surprisingly mistaken.

Anyway, I have said what I need to say, and will back off for a while. The reactions I get are typical and expected, I try to prepare for them, but also, I remember some of the most influential people of all time were originally flamed and laughed at, too. No harm done, it is what it is. ALL THIS BECAUSE I WENT TO SEE THAT STUPID FAST AND THE FURIOUS MOVIE....j/k.

nova_G

open minded? as in there is a possibility that the TL-S can beat the G37?

IMO just because you've been in azine since 03', it doesn't make you a good source of credibility? I mean there are people on G35driver who have been on there since 03' as well and yet they still scam people. I highly doubt you're join date has any influence on people's minds.

LOL @ FNF4. the ricerness is coming out! jk jk but I'm actually confused at what you're trying to say/prove. It might be because I didn't read the whole thread thoroughly enough but from my point of view.

and then you and Dave_B get into a debate. Dave_B says G should win every time given proper driver. You say not the case, TL-S is strong from a roll. I don't see where the close minded comes into play.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I just want to get one fact straight, please check out the following link:

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=686783

You previously mentioned the VQ35HR in the 2g G35 6MT makes 255whp and 220wtq. The TL-S on the other hand makes 253whp and 229wtq. And needless to say the TL-S has a fat powerband too as you can see. I think the VQ35HR actually makes more than 255whp or it was just tested on a different dyno.

winstrolvtec

No offense to anyone, but this racing forum is bogus. Nothing but G drivers. What does that say, I have never purposely went to G forum, and never found the need to post there. These guys post more than the actual members here, what does that say. You guys could witness it first hand, and still find a way to try and discredit it. No G driver has brought up a single valid point outside of comparing magazines and forum times, or personal attacks. Honest question, why are you here?, I know I would get nothing but shet if I went to one of your forums, so I don't find a need to go there, for any reason. I don't want to come off rude, nor should forums, be like this, but what do you expect is going to happen? Atleast I plead a case for my TL in the "Acura" forum. You write off that what I say is crap, that's fine, no one can take that away from you, but we have experiences and we have opinions too, and the most important thing is, we voice them where they belong.

winstrolvtec

Iforyou, I don't think it makes more than 260 - 265whp, makes sense considering their 3.7.

I don't care how much power a car has, if it can't put it down, becuse of drivetrain, or becuase it is traction limited, it's not going to show up on the 1/4 or less, especially from 0.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think TOV actually dynoed the VQ35HR or they got data from some source and it says that it's good for 260whp. Just a few more than the TL-S. That extra 100lb of the G35 is enough to offset that extra power. The real advantage I can see from the G as I have said before is perhaps the gearing, hence the extra 1mph trap speed. Or may be the G37 has less drag? If I remember correctly, the cd of the 3G TL is 0.29, while the 1g G35 is 0.26 or 0.27. I'm not sure if the 2g G is actually better or not. I know the difference is only 0.02, but I guess every little bit helps?

winstrolvtec

Good point, I see it this way, it's just a theory, the nature of FWD never will be able to demostrate the true ability of the car, 0 mph - whatever. This disadvantage increases with increased tq. The TLS happens to be one of the most powerful FWD's ever, same for the TL 6MT. You would see it's more natural ability from a drop or roll though, also demostrating strong acceleration at higher speeds, especially when not run from a dead stop.


"I started in second gear and we went to 120 or so on the first run, he pulled about 2-3 cars then he stopped pulling on me and we were moving at the same speed."

I don't know the details but, this is a TL MT vs. an EVO, so the TLS "could" have drawn even, between 100-120mph. This is from the TL vs EVO thread, it's there, check it out. AWD's tend to be the opposite of the TL, they compensate for extra weight and drivetrain losses with gearing and the natural traction advantage of AWD. They do slow up sooner or later, evidence of lower trap speeds. RWD's more neutral.

I hate cars

I'm not sure why this argument is still going on. We know the 1/4 times and mph for each car. Most of the time the G is going to win.

If they both get caught off guard in the wrong gear, the G is going to pile on the carlengths.

If the TL-S floors it first, it will have a 2-4mph jump on the G and I doubt it could make up the difference before the end of the 1/4.

I hate cars

No matter how bad the launch is, the mph is not going to change. We know the mph of each car through the 1/4 and the G is still faster for the most part.

winstrolvtec

It's not just launch, it's weight transfer. FWD front to back, RWD rear to front. It doesn't apply to the 1/4 mile, or trap. If the TL was RWD do you think it would make higher traps and put up better times?
That power is still there.

I hate cars

Launch does not effect traps. You could pull a 1.5 60' in the TL and it would still trap the same but it would be a 12 second car.

winstrolvtec

12's? I'm converting tomorrow. Not really. I really don't care how fast, there is always something faster. Ok, all that sounds good, but what happened in the EVO run?, I can relate to this.

winstrolvtec

Et shouldn't affect the trap speed, ok but cars don't come with traps slapped on them, they vary, and two exact cars can have a different trap even run together, No?

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

Dude, just take your TL to the strip and get a slip. Seriously, I'm curious to know your times since you're hanging with e46 M3's and 335i's (BTW the auto is actually quicker than the stick by a hair). Those are both genuine 105-106 mph cars vs a stock TL 6MT at ~98.

So that's why that is350 hauls ass down low. 4.08 final drive FTW. I see it starts to fall off between 110-120 though.

winstrolvtec

The Type S was against the 333i. The 04 a-spec MT was against the M and G. My friends G actually pulled that M too. Maybe it was a convertible with a hard top, it was black, at night, hard to tell. And for that matter the G's all have higher final drive than the TL's.

I will go to the track as soon as the weather breaks, I was saying that the other day, how I should have went, always curious myself, that's why I started posting. It ate at me for a few years, doesn't seem right, it just is. Maybe I should go out local, picking fights for now, I'll bring a camera, see if I can get some vids. Let's leave it at that for now.

Dave_B

Last year I did an average power calc for the TLS and G35HR. The HR about an extra 15whp spread over about an additional 800rpm of useable power. Basically this meant that in every gear, the G had a little more to work with. As the gears got longer, the advantage became more apparent. The G's 0.26-0.27 Cd doesn't hurt things either. I've never driven a TLS, but judging from the dynos I've seen, it's power is strong and immediate so it's going to very powerful. The G35HR isn't going to feel as immediate, but it's going to pull longer in every gear. That's where the advantage comes from.