Question on Timing Belt and Serpentine Belt Replacement Interval
 

I recently took my 2006 TL w/88k miles to the dealer for routine maintenance. Sadly I don't trust my dealer because they're always trying to up-sell me on service or give me bad info. I always keep the owners manual handy to show them what Acura actually recommends.

During the latest service, they recommended that I replace the timing belt and drive/serpentine belt.

I know for the timing belt, there is a Service Minder code (4) that is supposed to come up, so I figure Acura knows best when it's due. I've heard people say the general recommendation is 105K miles / 7 years, but if it's as simple as that, I would think the Service Minder would immediately alert me when either condition is met. So what say you: wait for the Service Minder to indicate when the timing belt needs to be changed or do it at 7 years (now)?

I couldn't find anything in the manual about when to change the serpentine belt. The back of the belt is slightly brownish, but I think that's just dirt; I don't see any cracks and the front of the belt looks good. I've heard some people say to replace it at the same time as the timing belt. Is there any recommended interval on when to replace the serpentine belt?

Thanks for your help!

Mark

I'm not sure where you live,but Better safe than sorry. My vote, is change it. Maybe try a different dealer if that will make you feel better. But the timing belt isn't really an upsell as it is more of a manufacturer's recommendation.

With that said, I live in Boston (harsh weather),and I am currently at 103k,and haven't had any problems..yet. But the timing belt will be getting replaced within the next month or so.

The t-belt is due based on age. Change it. And yes while you're in there, do the drive belt too! And the t-stat, and spark plugs. And water pump of course.

So you guys don't trust the Service Minder? If the criteria for changing the timing belt was a simple as 105k miles or 7 years, then the Service Minder would tell the owner the belt needs changing when either of these conditions are met. The Owner's Manual recommends to do it when the Service Minder indicates it; there is no interval specified.

For a service that could cost over $1000, I'm don't want to get it done until it's actually needed - and if I believe the Owner's Manual (and thus the Service Minder), there's no indication it's needed. That's what seems logical to me.

BTW, the sort of "up-sell" I was referring to is when the dealer says "the transmission fluid needs to be replaced at 60k" - but when you read the manual, that is only true when "frequently driving in mountainous areas at very low speeds". There's a Service Minder code that indicates when to replace the transmission fluid, which didn't come on until around 85K on my car. This current dealer isn't too bad, but with other cars I've owned and other dealers, almost every visit they'd recommend a service long before it was due. My local Hyundai dealer halved the owner's manual recommendation for every service; they'd try to sell you a 30k service every 15k miles, etc.

If you're that adamant about not it right now then just wait till you get closer to 105k. I have an 04 and got mine changed right at 105. Like somebody else said, better safe than sorry. What you're risking if your timing belt goes is basically a whole new engine on top of the cost for timing belt replacement. Doesn't seem too likely with those miles but who knows what climate you and the previous owners have driven in, whether the car has been parked outside, etc.

Also, changing the transmission fluid in your TL at 60,000 mi. Is NOT an up sell. You'll learn a lot from these message boards by just skimming through old posts. Search the word transmission. Most people change their fluid every 10,000-20,000 miles on here. I changed mine right when I got my car and ill be doing it again after maybe 15,000.

If you distrust your dealer so much, as must of us do, why the HELL do you keep taking your car there? They aren't the only people who know how to fix TLs.

I wouldn't say I'm adamant; I'm just curious to know if there is a reason to not trust the Service Minder to indicate when the service is due. I've always serviced my cars according to the manufacturers recommended schedule - and Acura recommends doing it when the Service Minder says.

Why do I keep taking my car to the dealer for service? When a car is under warranty, I prefer to take it to the dealer; if they find something wrong, it's usually fixed under warranty. My current Acura dealer (in Turnersville, NJ) isn't too bad; there's another Acura dealer much closer (Maple Shade, NJ) that's terrible, so it's worth the extra drive. But now that my warranty recently expired, I've been looking for a good independent mechanic to take my car to.

I'm leaning towards waiting for my Service Minder to indicate it's time, then change everything at once: timing belt, serpentine belt, spark plugs, water pump, etc.

Maintenance minder will not tell you at the 7 year mark....it will wait until the mileage is hit. Acura Master Techs suggest the 7 year mark, which is why a lot of people do it then. I am at 63K but my car was manufactured at the end of 2004. If I waited to hit 105K it would most likely be 15 years old....I am not going to wait 15 years to replace a rubber belt.

Well,you asked for advice man. We're just giving you the same advice we would give anybody else. & We definitely aren't upselling anything to you. Most of the guys on this forum will follow the "better safe than sorry" way of thinking because we love our cars and the more time you spend on here. the more you will realize that sometimes manufacturer recommendations,aren't always best. Such as: fluid replacement intervals on the Automatic Transmissions(more constant flushes can do your tranny some good), fluid type specs on the Manual transmissions( We use GM Synchromesh vs the Honda brand). Also, keep in mind that the manufacturer states in the manuals,especially for Fluids and belt replacement, that if you live in a harsher climate,you may need to follow a different regiment. Example: New england weather sucks! Super cold & super hot weather wreaks havoc on a tiny rubber belt,not to mention our underhood temperatures are already high,which is why our motor mounts have service bulletins and so many of us already changed them..not being an ass,but did you know this about our vehicles?

Experience pays man, and I imagine that's why you're asking the forum.

I do appreciate the advice, guys. I came to the the forum to ask because I know there are a lot of knowledgeable folks here.

I think taking the "middle path" would be good - though it might not need to be done exactly on it's 7th birthday (April this year), sometime this year would be good. I've had a lot of other big expenses lately, so I'd rather wait until I had the extra cash on hand rather than putting it on a credit card.

The good thing about the Maintenance Minder is that it bases the intervals on how you drive and not just on the mileage. But as lucnex mentioned, if he went by the Maintenance Minder he'd go about 15 years without changing it. It doesn't really account for age of the parts. Some things might not matter but a rubber belt would be pretty age dependent it seems.

I wouldn't see any harm in waiting for the Minder though. Most people on here are pretty cautious when it comes to maintenance, which isn't a bad thing at all.

Now that I think about it, my maintenance minder never went off for my timing belt change. I don't know if the mechanic can reset it before it even goes off but I'm at 108k and haven't seen it yet.

I waited 7 years and 130k for mine (in SC) and did it DIY from the garage thread. If you leave your car outside where there are freeze/thaw conditions then I would stick to the manufacturer's 105k. Any sooner than 7yr/105k or something like 8-9yr with less miles probably is a little over-insurance. People say, it doesn't hurt to go ahead and do it, but not getting that extra 20% of life out of it is hurting your wallet. The reason I waited was that I want to take my car out to 300k and if I go another 130k on this belt at 260k, I might as well not change it. Basically, I will never have to do it again, but I'll play that one by ear.

There have been users whom have reported absolutely horrid lengths of risk in which the 100k service was run past due, and I've yet to read of anyone slamming a piston through the block.

But in all seriousness - budget it for April.

Also, you can reset the Maintenance Minder in the dash console yourself. I believe its stated how in the DIY section of the owners manual.

This has been beaten to death! there is absolutely no reason to to do this until the MID indicates that it is to be done. Doubtful that you meet the conditions of severe service, but only you know that. If your confident that the engineers that designed the vehicle are smart enough to include a program that can determine the correct service interval then obey the MID. Its not like it is oblivious to the time accrued. Parking the car outside is irrelevant. Its going to comedown to whatever you feel comfortable with in the end, but I cannot think of any post ever about a broken timing belt on a J. I will not even consider the service until the MID indicates.

I changed my TB at 103K, before the minder came on. I preferred to schedule it on my terms instead of being highly annoyed by the light being on and me trying to find time to get it to the dealer.

My minder came on at 107K if it matters which was just about time for another oil change which I had the wife drop it off at the dealer for that.

the TB isn't just going to snap if you waited another 6-12 mos to do it. is there a risk? sure. a low one. if you waited until the car's 8th birthday it'll most likely be fine. there have been people here that have changed their TB at the 8yr or so mark. the condition of the original belt looked surprisingly good.

the MID has no idea what year it is.

i have a low mileage TL that just turned 8....i plan on taking care of the TB service witinin the next 6-9 mos.

there are people out in the world that have low mileage vehicles and have no clue about the TB...go 9-10 yrs without changing it and the car is still fine. usually by that point most mechanics (indy or dealer) will tell the owner that they should get the TB service done due to age. OP- if you wanted to wait and do it in the next 12 mos, then do what your situation allows. like others have said, we haven't seen anyone posting on here that the TB snapped at now the engine is done.

one good thing about the serpentine belt is can be seen and inspected. The one acura dealer I go to for service told me it should have been replaced at 105K miles. When I took my car to another acura dealer, a Honda dealer and a independent mechanic they all said it was still in great shape and did not need to be replaced.

For what it's worth, I have an '05 TL with 118k miles on it. My maintenance minder came on last fall around 105k. I reset it (so it didn't keep bothering me), knowing I'd do the belts come summer. I just ordered the kit for the DIY. I have a little bit of squeeking, but it's most likely one of the pulleys. I'll find out soon.

-Brian

And for those of you with 04-06 TLs, remember that the odometer reads high by at least 5%...

Honda/Acura odometer class action lawsuit

^Good point.

But, I'm stickin to my "better safe than sorry".

The 105k/7yr mark is recommended. The reason for this is due to age, weather, hot and cold driving, belt wear the belt is worn as you know. This is a "safe" period of time to change it. You can go over if you want, ive seen people run 200k on a timing belt. Yes, they will break after a long time but they are reinforced very well. Now its not only that they age but due to wear they stretch. So your timing and everything is slightly off, very minimal. Im a mechanic and yes we will recommend this. TB, waterpump, plugs, valve adjustment, belts and a tensioner or any pulley that is worn more than it should be. Now for transmission drain/refills go, you might as well do them before your trans gives out. Clutches inside are VERY sensitive in these acura transmissions. The manufacturer has a predetermined value set in the MID. Its just a calculation set to put the light on when it is reached, just like a DTC. Now, how many 6th gen accords and 2gen tl's have you seen with blow transmission? I have had one in mine. Did the engineers design that to happen? NO! But it did. So if you wanna be safe go by the correct "safe" time or by your car if your set on that. Your car is not as smart as you think. But it is smart! Just dont be retarted and NEVER do it. You'll be fine waiting till your car says to.

Please explain this odometer reading 5% higher??

There was a link in the post.

Acura released a "class action lawsuit" and extended the warranty's on the vehicle's by 5%. Because the odometers were "Overstating" mileage.

IIRC it wasnt every 04-06 model right? Just certain ones manufactured before a set date?

EDIT: eh maybe I am wrong after reading the link...

For whats is worth, I did my timing belt at 160K, about 6 years in service. I presently have 214K on her.

You can't really go by miles / years. It's a conservative estimate. If you drive mostly highway and the weather is mild where you live, I think you can go another year / 20k miles no problem / without risk. You can wait for the maintenance minder. I think for nfn and I, it also clicked over around the 107k mark.

FWIW, I changed mine around 105k mark. Idler pulley and auto-tensioner were already on the way out. Also, when checking the drivebelt, look for glazing, microcracks between the threads, rounded out ribs and any separation. I would replace it if it's original when you do the timing belt, and keep the old one handy for emergencies.

Yup, IIRC, MID "4" came on about 104.5K and would've been "due now" at about 108K, but I did the change at 106.5K because that's when I had the time to do it.

We've been over this time/miles thing a billion times now. Officially, Acura has dumped the "7 years" for the 3G TL. Apparently they've come to the conclusion that "use under stress" (e.g. mileage) is a better measurement of belt life than time.

It's pretty clear from the MID indications that 105K is still a benchmark set by Acura. The MID may possibly still have a TIME benchmark set in it's computer, but if it exists, it's longer than 9 years.

These belts can go for a long period of time just fine. I had the original belt on my previous car that was 15 years old (Lexus ES300). It was a low mileage vehicle and had absolutely no problems. There was no point in changing it out early mileage wise or worrying about it as it was a non-interference engine... If the belt would have broke no damage would occur.

These belts can go as long as you need them to time wise. Change them at the mileage recommendation and be done with it.

You have to understand these belts are designed to go well above Acura's recommendation. Acura needs to recommend a new belt to customers at an interval where 99%+ of all belts are still in tact and fully functional... Which probably means (nobody knows except the engineers that did the durability tests) the belt will actually start breaking around 200k+ miles.

Mileage does not indicate use. A city commuter will have more wear than a highway commuter, and although the belt may hold up, the idler pulley, auto tensioner, adjuster or water pump are a liability. Honda engines are interface engines.. don't give anyone false hope of driving til it snaps.

Also, member for 10 years and only 30 posts. 3 posts a year. :what: :wave:

Mileage does not indicate use? What does that hell does that mean? Time and mileage are the only two basis for use any car manufacturer uses for items like this, with the exception of the possibility of hours as a basis for use, of which is more likely to be used in heavier applications/police cars.

In my post I am simply discrediting the time basis for use, which was mentioned earlier in post #27. Any reasonably competent person should consider time at a lower factor... If your car is 20+ years old with 50,000 miles, yes change the TB.

Yes our engines are interference engines... Your TB goes your engine goes. I hope any person that could read the first paragraph would know I was talking about a completely different car.

What Majofo meant when he said, "Mileage Does not indicate use," is that a car could have 50K miles or 120K miles and you wouldn't know how it was driven. Was it driven conservatively or raced much of it's life? Did the previous owner take care of it? I personally wouldn't push the original timing belt too far passed 105K miles just for a peace of mind. I know T-belts last a good bit, but with and interference engine is it worth the risk to the top half? My last car was a 2000 Mazda Millenia (ME) and those motors were non-interference. No fear of damage from a snapped T-belt. I've seen on th Mazda forum where people have pulled the original T-belt at close to 200K miles and it was just starting to fray. I've also read on this forum owners' have pushed the limits well passed the 105K interval. If your car has a few years on it and low mileage for the year, why not get it done? Just because the belt may look good, doesn't mean certain parts won't need to be replaced as well (water pump, t-stat, pully/tensioner, adjuster, etc). Cheap insurance imo to get it done when it's due by mileage and/or age (i've read 105K miles or 7 yrs) whichever comes first. Not everyone keeps their car in a garage, so the elements come into play as well.

Some have had their belt changed that was in great shape, but needed an idler pulley, or tensioner, or their water pump had started to leak.

It means a car running at a 3k RPM standstill will tack zero miles, but just because there are zero miles on the odometer, doesn't mean it's in good health. Like I said, the conditions which the car is run and the mtbf of the other critical parts all come into play. Mileage and time are important factors, neither should be negated.

A city commuter may never get into overdrive. Whereas a highway commuter might be in high gear for +90% of their commute. If the distance they travel is a factor of 2, yet the commute time is the same. The stress and revolutions on the belt of the city commuter will be much greater than the highway commuter even though the miles are half.

Sure the mfg interval is conservative, but I know a couple of people who have snapped a timing belt pushing the limit.

On a J32??

no.. but there are a handful of members here who have.

A few from shops that improperly installed the belt / wp or didn't replace all the critical parts.

There are also a couple of members on original parts that failed at 130k and 200k. Just search site:acurazine.com timing belt snapped

My acura dealer told me that 120K 10 years would work. I changed my belt at 12 years and 118K. car is 2002 CL type S and I just followed their advice. I drive it mostly 50 mile round trips highway averaging 10K a year milage wise

I wouldn't worry too much about the dealer advice, I have the same issue where I want dealer to replace TB tensioner but dealer trying to tell me that TB/WP need to be done. I just laugh at them and walk out.

Hleapha Reporting back! I did the first change around 130K. Around 165K, my water pump was leaking. This was due to shearing one of the super sensitive aluminum bolts. Honestly, when it happened, I thought it was on good enough and I had no access to a replacement bolt. So, 35K later, it sprung a leak and I decided to fix it. As y'all know, the water pump is the last step in the timing belt replacement so I went ahead and threw on a new belt and pulleys at that time. I'm at 217K now. Still going strong. The passenger side door lock doesn't work and water leaks around that door, but runs solid.

I definitely recommend the maintenance you pointed out. I also highly recommend doing the 3rd and 4th pressure switches on the Transmission. It's an easy, 15 minute thing. You can get the switches off ebay. There is a big thread on that, probably a Garage topic. Also do a 3x3 drain and fill of ATF if you haven't yet.

25k miles per year is great because it sounds like highway miles. Those are the easiest miles you can put on a car. The absolute worst miles are the people who drive 5000 miles per year with short distances. Most of the engine wear happens at startup and in the first few miles before oil thins out. Your wear once the oil is warmed up is negligible. You should be good to go.