Question about 07 AT TL vs 07 G35
#1
10th Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Worcester, MA
Age: 37
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question about 07 AT TL vs 07 G35
Alright I love my TL. It's a flawless car in my opinion. The only thing I noticed is since I have an automatic if I'm casually driving around the car upshifts to like 5th gear going 30mph. I assume this is due to the drive by wire and helps with the mileage. Since this is annoying when you want to bomb around I constantly find myself using the tiptronic, which makes hitting 6,000rpm a breeze in the lower gears with minimal effort. Good times.
However I was forced to drive my friends G35x the other night and I couldn't help but notice how much more low end kick that car has. It felt like the car never upshifted until it absolutely had to and stayed in the lower gear as long as it could. It made for some interesting moments whenever I came to a stop sign.
Question is - is the g35x that much more powerful in the low end because of the 50hp? The drive by wire sensitivity? or is it because the engine gets a bulk of its power at a lower rpm compared to the acura's higher rpm power? or none of the above.
Flame away if you don't feel like helping me with understanding this I'm trying to learn this stuff, one day at a time.
However I was forced to drive my friends G35x the other night and I couldn't help but notice how much more low end kick that car has. It felt like the car never upshifted until it absolutely had to and stayed in the lower gear as long as it could. It made for some interesting moments whenever I came to a stop sign.
Question is - is the g35x that much more powerful in the low end because of the 50hp? The drive by wire sensitivity? or is it because the engine gets a bulk of its power at a lower rpm compared to the acura's higher rpm power? or none of the above.
Flame away if you don't feel like helping me with understanding this I'm trying to learn this stuff, one day at a time.
#4
10th Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Worcester, MA
Age: 37
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hrm...double thanks. This also helps explain why the engine having VTEC is what gives us our decent HP at 6,000rpm. If you were to turbo charge this engine, it's basically doing the job of the VTEC with a lot more punch?
#5
Senior Moderator
Honda pioneered this technology, and it seems that other manufacturers are taking advantage of it while honda sits back.
Turbo on the other hand forces more air into the engine than it would normally suck in. More air means more fuel, which means more power.
#6
Team Owner
Cam in block, SOHC, DOHC, doesn't matter. Typically a DOHC and SOHC engine is tuned for more top end power due to the lighter valvetrain. However, I've seen tons of 400+ cubic inch engines with no overhead cams spinning 7,500+rpm.
The following applies to modern engines.
SOHC makes it easier to alter overall cam timing. Engine management can advance and retard cam timing in some engines. This allows better low and high end and slightly better emissions. The difference is subtle.
There is also room for some form of "vtec" since the cam is in the heads and not in the block.
DOHC in a modern engine has the same advantages as a SOHC but also allows the engine management to alter intake and exhaust overlap even further helping low end, high end, and especially emissions more than anything else. Plenty of room for "vtec style" hardware.
In the drag racing world, SOHC and DOHC don't offer much of a power advantage. You can get more overall valve area in a combustion chamber out of 2 large valves than 4 small valves. Low end is not an issue when you're dealing with large engines, turbo engines, or a car that is properly setup to deal with a high revving engine.
Where the OHC engines shine is in the ultra high rpms arena. No pushrods, usually no rocker arms, a larger cam base circle, much less valvetrain weight, and springs with much less tension for a given rpm range make for a more reliable valvetrain at ultra high rpms. reliably. When I say ultra high rpms, I'm speaking >9,000rpm. My father's pushrod V6 in his GN spins close to 8,500 just fine.
The answer to the question is the Nissan engine is tuned more for torque, that's all. Honda is notorious for tuning for high rpm hp without much care for low end torque. Vtec helps with both somewhat but personally I prefer the torque especially in a daily driver. It makes it so much more relaxed to drive without having to downshift all the time.
The following applies to modern engines.
SOHC makes it easier to alter overall cam timing. Engine management can advance and retard cam timing in some engines. This allows better low and high end and slightly better emissions. The difference is subtle.
There is also room for some form of "vtec" since the cam is in the heads and not in the block.
DOHC in a modern engine has the same advantages as a SOHC but also allows the engine management to alter intake and exhaust overlap even further helping low end, high end, and especially emissions more than anything else. Plenty of room for "vtec style" hardware.
In the drag racing world, SOHC and DOHC don't offer much of a power advantage. You can get more overall valve area in a combustion chamber out of 2 large valves than 4 small valves. Low end is not an issue when you're dealing with large engines, turbo engines, or a car that is properly setup to deal with a high revving engine.
Where the OHC engines shine is in the ultra high rpms arena. No pushrods, usually no rocker arms, a larger cam base circle, much less valvetrain weight, and springs with much less tension for a given rpm range make for a more reliable valvetrain at ultra high rpms. reliably. When I say ultra high rpms, I'm speaking >9,000rpm. My father's pushrod V6 in his GN spins close to 8,500 just fine.
The answer to the question is the Nissan engine is tuned more for torque, that's all. Honda is notorious for tuning for high rpm hp without much care for low end torque. Vtec helps with both somewhat but personally I prefer the torque especially in a daily driver. It makes it so much more relaxed to drive without having to downshift all the time.
Trending Topics
#8
Instructor
Generally, the larger the engine's displacement the more torque it'll produce. Nissan's VQ engines have always been known for producing good low-end grunt.
As "I hate cars" stated, Honda likes to tune their engines for higher-rpm performance. The engines just love to rev and feel like they can do it all day. An extreme of that example is the S2000 (I had a 2000MY) which didn't wake-up until 5500 rpm (again: small engine, very little low-end torque, high rpms required to generate 240 hp).
I also had two G35 6MT sedans and they definitely had more low-end torque (not comparing to the S2000 but the TL). However, they sounded like they were going to come apart above 5000 rpm (noise and roughness).
Which is better? It comes down to personal tastes and the type of driving you do. The S2000 wasn't fun around town so you can see how a good amount of low-end torque makes city driving much nicer.
As "I hate cars" stated, Honda likes to tune their engines for higher-rpm performance. The engines just love to rev and feel like they can do it all day. An extreme of that example is the S2000 (I had a 2000MY) which didn't wake-up until 5500 rpm (again: small engine, very little low-end torque, high rpms required to generate 240 hp).
I also had two G35 6MT sedans and they definitely had more low-end torque (not comparing to the S2000 but the TL). However, they sounded like they were going to come apart above 5000 rpm (noise and roughness).
Which is better? It comes down to personal tastes and the type of driving you do. The S2000 wasn't fun around town so you can see how a good amount of low-end torque makes city driving much nicer.
#9
10th Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Worcester, MA
Age: 37
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think I prefer high end torque overall. The low end I experienced in the g35 was just night and day to my TL's so I was surprised. I never got the car above 60 so I have no idea how it was at higher rpms. Nor did I try the tiptronic in it. I need to drive more cars I guess :p
#10
Drifting
However, they sounded like they were going to come apart above 5000 rpm (noise and roughness).
TL Sound Clip
G Coupe Sound Clip
Before I put the spacer and Z-tube in the G, the TL's engine was louder once the V-TEC kicked in... After I installed the Z-tube and spacer, the G was louder. This sound clip was pre-intake mods..
Last edited by avs007; 06-22-2010 at 01:59 PM.
#11
My 07's lowest shift into 5th occurs at a minimum of 37 mph.
Actually, according to the rpms, it's not really even into 5th gear...sort of somewhere between 4th & 5th gear. There's a name for that but I don't remember what it's called
#13
Drifting
#15
Torque = get to top speed quickly.
HP = get to higher top speed.
Given the same size engine and tuned differently. The way I understand it is that the engine can be tuned variably. If you drive around town on a daily basis and never plan on getting anywhere near top speed. An engine tuned for max torque would be more useful. If you are racing and need top speed (track with more long straights and high speed turns) you would want higher HP.
HP = get to higher top speed.
Given the same size engine and tuned differently. The way I understand it is that the engine can be tuned variably. If you drive around town on a daily basis and never plan on getting anywhere near top speed. An engine tuned for max torque would be more useful. If you are racing and need top speed (track with more long straights and high speed turns) you would want higher HP.
#16
10th Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Worcester, MA
Age: 37
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If your TL is shifting into 5th at this speed, I would have it checked out.
My 07's lowest shift into 5th occurs at a minimum of 37 mph.
Actually, according to the rpms, it's not really even into 5th gear...sort of somewhere between 4th & 5th gear. There's a name for that but I don't remember what it's called
My 07's lowest shift into 5th occurs at a minimum of 37 mph.
Actually, according to the rpms, it's not really even into 5th gear...sort of somewhere between 4th & 5th gear. There's a name for that but I don't remember what it's called
Sorry I typed it quickly and just threw an example out there. I'd be in 4th but I'm commonly in 4th going 30 if I'm not pushing it hard and it can be super annoying sometimes. It's fine though just something I didn't figure out until I read through the manual a bit and saw the pre-determined speeds at which the gearing *might* upshift at.
At first though I thought something was wrong. Just had to figure out the car a bit. I'm starting to really enjoy 2nd and 3rd. Coming from driving a camry and honda pilot for a long time, try to understand
#18
Instructor
I don't know if you care, but a long time ago, I made some audio clips, of revving my TL and G from idle to 6800rpm in 2nd gear.
TL Sound Clip
G Coupe Sound Clip
Before I put the spacer and Z-tube in the G, the TL's engine was louder once the V-TEC kicked in... After I installed the Z-tube and spacer, the G was louder. This sound clip was pre-intake mods..
TL Sound Clip
G Coupe Sound Clip
Before I put the spacer and Z-tube in the G, the TL's engine was louder once the V-TEC kicked in... After I installed the Z-tube and spacer, the G was louder. This sound clip was pre-intake mods..
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
navtool.com
5G TLX Audio, Bluetooth, Electronics & Navigation
31
11-16-2015 08:30 PM
DerrickW
3G TL Performance Parts & Modifications
9
11-15-2015 05:52 PM
navtool.com
1G RDX Audio, Bluetooth, Electronics & Navigation
1
09-25-2015 05:15 PM