Note to those with lowering springs
02-24-2004, 01:24 PM
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Note to those with lowering springs
http://livermoreperformance.com/acur...20springs.html
Direct quote:
"Note: When lowering your Acura or Honda the camber and caster may be affected to a degree that factory OEM alignment tolerances can not be achieved with factory hardware. For these situations we sell the alignment correction hardware. Click here to view the Alignment Hardware page."
http://livermoreperformance.com/acur...nt%20kits.html
:wow:
Lowering a car screws up the factory suspension geometry and can cause more problems than it solves.
And shorter/stiffer springs mandate a set of quality, aftermarket shocks/struts to ensure proper suspension/body control.
Lowering a car the right way is a costly, time consuming process that requires a suspension professional/installer who truly knows what he/she is doing and typically requires a lot more parts than just the springs. Spring companies don't like telling customers that because they'd sell a lot fewer springs if the customers were aware of the additional costs/parts that SHOULD accompany the springs.
Direct quote:
"Note: When lowering your Acura or Honda the camber and caster may be affected to a degree that factory OEM alignment tolerances can not be achieved with factory hardware. For these situations we sell the alignment correction hardware. Click here to view the Alignment Hardware page."
http://livermoreperformance.com/acur...nt%20kits.html
:wow:
Lowering a car screws up the factory suspension geometry and can cause more problems than it solves.
And shorter/stiffer springs mandate a set of quality, aftermarket shocks/struts to ensure proper suspension/body control.
Lowering a car the right way is a costly, time consuming process that requires a suspension professional/installer who truly knows what he/she is doing and typically requires a lot more parts than just the springs. Spring companies don't like telling customers that because they'd sell a lot fewer springs if the customers were aware of the additional costs/parts that SHOULD accompany the springs.
02-24-2004, 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by VTEC=happiness
Enough reposting the same crap you freaking PW
Enough reposting the same crap you freaking PW
Rather, it addresses the fact that factory suspension geometry is often times altered beyond the point of adjustment (via alignment) and that replacement suspension components must then be ordered/installed in order to rectify things.
Many people who "slam" their vehicles aren't aware of that.
Lowering a car on the street makes no sense from a cost/handling point of view.
A good set of matched shocks and springs (like the ones used on the A-spec, which almost surely allow appropriate adjustment via alignment) is the way to go on the street. Slightly larger anti-roll bars (properly balanced with respect to everthing else) can also be beneifical.
Huge wheels/tires can actually be counter-productive, since they are heavier and therefore increase rotating mass (@ the wheels) and vehicle weight, add rolling resistance and adversely impact frontal area and drag cofficient.
02-24-2004, 01:42 PM
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this is why i am not modding my car out anymore. i will only change parts that i know have no mechanical effect on the existing car. most aftermarket parts in my experience never workout right. there are always fitment and reliability issues. i am sure there are going to be people to defend their mods and say it adds performance and functionality. i modded my last car and the ride is so stiff it uncomfortable to sit in for long trips.
02-24-2004, 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by caball88
this is why i am not modding my car out anymore. i will only change parts that i know have no mechanical effect on the existing car. most aftermarket parts in my experience never workout right. there are always fitment and reliability issues. i am sure there are going to be people to defend their mods and say it adds performance and functionality. i modded my last car and the ride is so stiff it uncomfortable to sit in for long trips.
this is why i am not modding my car out anymore. i will only change parts that i know have no mechanical effect on the existing car. most aftermarket parts in my experience never workout right. there are always fitment and reliability issues. i am sure there are going to be people to defend their mods and say it adds performance and functionality. i modded my last car and the ride is so stiff it uncomfortable to sit in for long trips.
I'm sure Acura has done a nice job of engineering the A-spec package (and the shocks and springs that go with it). It's a shame that Acura doesn't sell the A-spec shocks and springs individually (versus as part of the entire $5,200 (plus installation) package.
02-24-2004, 02:15 PM
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Try ebay
The complete A-Spec package has been going for $3,950 on ebay, that is for everything including the steering wheel and badges, you can even register your car with Acura as an A-Spec when you purschase the complete kit.
Mike Smeey,
Mike Smeey,
02-24-2004, 02:15 PM
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harddrivin1le:
It's tough when you bring simple facts to a discussion and get dissed, but as I said in another thread we have a few here who just don't get, don't wanna get it, and never will get it. They seem to fall into these categories:
1) Those who think their new TL is a street racer and want to know what it'll "kill"
2) Those who think that magazine numbers define their car and its relationship to every other car on the road. (TL vs. G35 until you wanna puke :banghead: ).
3) Those who hop on every performance "upgrade" before proof of any actual benefit. CAI's are the best example of that right now.
4) Those who think that $4500 for 40 hp is a good deal, and that forced induction on 11:1 compression and pump gas is OK (a subset of #3).
Most of this seems to stem from plain ignorance about automobiles, and some of it comes from a few's need for penis enlargement. My main forum d-s-m-t-a-l-k.com doesn't put up with much of this crap, but it really seems to thrive here. I will say however that the majority of members here have their head on straight.
Don't waste your breath acknowledging the jerks...just keep posting the facts and hope that someone benefits from the experience.
It's tough when you bring simple facts to a discussion and get dissed, but as I said in another thread we have a few here who just don't get, don't wanna get it, and never will get it. They seem to fall into these categories:
1) Those who think their new TL is a street racer and want to know what it'll "kill"
2) Those who think that magazine numbers define their car and its relationship to every other car on the road. (TL vs. G35 until you wanna puke :banghead: ).
3) Those who hop on every performance "upgrade" before proof of any actual benefit. CAI's are the best example of that right now.
4) Those who think that $4500 for 40 hp is a good deal, and that forced induction on 11:1 compression and pump gas is OK (a subset of #3).
Most of this seems to stem from plain ignorance about automobiles, and some of it comes from a few's need for penis enlargement. My main forum d-s-m-t-a-l-k.com doesn't put up with much of this crap, but it really seems to thrive here. I will say however that the majority of members here have their head on straight.
Don't waste your breath acknowledging the jerks...just keep posting the facts and hope that someone benefits from the experience.
Trending Topics
02-24-2004, 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by theslik1
harddrivin1le:
It's tough when you bring simple facts to a discussion and get dissed, but as I said in another thread we have a few here who just don't get, don't wanna get it, and never will get it. They seem to fall into these categories:
1) Those who think their new TL is a street racer and want to know what it'll "kill"
2) Those who think that magazine numbers define their car and its relationship to every other car on the road. (TL vs. G35 until you wanna puke :banghead: ).
3) Those who hop on every performance "upgrade" before proof of any actual benefit. CAI's are the best example of that right now.
4) Those who think that $4500 for 40 hp is a good deal, and that forced induction on 11:1 compression and pump gas is OK (a subset of #3).
Most of this seems to stem from plain ignorance about automobiles, and some of it comes from a few's need for penis enlargement. My main forum d-s-m-t-a-l-k.com doesn't put up with much of this crap, but it really seems to thrive here. I will say however that the majority of members here have their head on straight.
Don't waste your breath acknowledging the jerks...just keep posting the facts and hope that someone benefits from the experience.
harddrivin1le:
It's tough when you bring simple facts to a discussion and get dissed, but as I said in another thread we have a few here who just don't get, don't wanna get it, and never will get it. They seem to fall into these categories:
1) Those who think their new TL is a street racer and want to know what it'll "kill"
2) Those who think that magazine numbers define their car and its relationship to every other car on the road. (TL vs. G35 until you wanna puke :banghead: ).
3) Those who hop on every performance "upgrade" before proof of any actual benefit. CAI's are the best example of that right now.
4) Those who think that $4500 for 40 hp is a good deal, and that forced induction on 11:1 compression and pump gas is OK (a subset of #3).
Most of this seems to stem from plain ignorance about automobiles, and some of it comes from a few's need for penis enlargement. My main forum d-s-m-t-a-l-k.com doesn't put up with much of this crap, but it really seems to thrive here. I will say however that the majority of members here have their head on straight.
Don't waste your breath acknowledging the jerks...just keep posting the facts and hope that someone benefits from the experience.
I don't even care whether the road is straight or curved when they try. And just think - my car hasn't even been "slammed."
The new TL is a very nice car. It would be even nicer if Acura saw fit to offer the A-spec shocks, springs, wheels and tires as part of a factory/production option for ~ $1,500. I can't even imagine butchering a car like the TL by "slamming" it, installing massive, chrome plated wheels/tires, etc. It's too nice a car for that.
02-24-2004, 03:25 PM
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you know you will see slammed TL's soon, the rice boys can't resist. and don't be surprised when your Z28 gets passed by one. its not that hard to make a car go fast straight.
02-24-2004, 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by caball88
you know you will see slammed TL's soon, the rice boys can't resist. and don't be surprised when your Z28 gets passed by one. its not that hard to make a car go fast straight.
you know you will see slammed TL's soon, the rice boys can't resist. and don't be surprised when your Z28 gets passed by one. its not that hard to make a car go fast straight.
"All" they will need is a good intercooled blower set-up to run with that.
They'll need more than to beat it. I could counter by adding a blower to the LS1 if I were stupid enough (which I'm not).Blower kits will become a reality (albiet an expensive one) with the Infiniti, since kits for the 350Z are already out and it's rear wheel drive. That will make for a pretty fast car until the engine blows up due to the extra thermal and mechanical loads.
Putting big power through the front wheels of a TL while keeping the car on the road will prove far more challenging.
So I'm not sweating bullets just yet.
02-24-2004, 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by caball88
you know you will see slammed TL's soon, the rice boys can't resist. and don't be surprised when your Z28 gets passed by one. its not that hard to make a car go fast straight.
you know you will see slammed TL's soon, the rice boys can't resist. and don't be surprised when your Z28 gets passed by one. its not that hard to make a car go fast straight.
It'll take alot of mods to get a TL into the 12's (yes, stock LS1's have run 12's), and with each car equally modified the TL will get raped. EVERY TIME.
God people, I love my TL but get real! :smackhead:
By the way harddrivin1le, I've seen some outstanding turbo LS1's, so don't write off the boost. I hear they take very well to being pressurized. That's gonna be my project someday after I quit goofing around with the Eclipse.
Don't underestimate Nissan's VQ35 either, this is the same bunch who came up with the RB26DETT.
02-24-2004, 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by theslik1
See what I'm talking about? No clue.
It'll take alot of mods to get a TL into the 12's (yes, stock LS1's have run 12's), and with each car equally modified the TL will get raped. EVERY TIME.
God people, I love my TL but get real! :smackhead:
By the way harddrivin1le, I've seen some outstanding turbo LS1's, so don't write off the boost. I hear they take very well to being pressurized. That's gonna be my project someday after I quit goofing around with the Eclipse.
Don't underestimate Nissan's VQ35 either, this is the same bunch who came up with the RB26DETT.
See what I'm talking about? No clue.
It'll take alot of mods to get a TL into the 12's (yes, stock LS1's have run 12's), and with each car equally modified the TL will get raped. EVERY TIME.
God people, I love my TL but get real! :smackhead:
By the way harddrivin1le, I've seen some outstanding turbo LS1's, so don't write off the boost. I hear they take very well to being pressurized. That's gonna be my project someday after I quit goofing around with the Eclipse.
Don't underestimate Nissan's VQ35 either, this is the same bunch who came up with the RB26DETT.
A PROPERLY blown engine has forged pistons, forged rods, a forged crank, a cam with minimum overlap, high temp exhaust valves, etc, etc, etc...
So otherwise stock engines are never ideally suited for blowers.
I've seen many blown LS1s and LT1s produce more than 500 HP @ the drivewheels...I'm not interested in stressing my engine like that.
Rear wheel drive VQ35 vehicles have a lot of potential.
02-24-2004, 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by harddrivin1le
That's not "the same crap."
Rather, it addresses the fact that factory suspension geometry is often times altered beyond the point of adjustment (via alignment) and that replacement suspension components must then be ordered/installed in order to rectify things.
Many people who "slam" their vehicles aren't aware of that.
Lowering a car on the street makes no sense from a cost/handling point of view.
A good set of matched shocks and springs (like the ones used on the A-spec, which almost surely allow appropriate adjustment via alignment) is the way to go on the street. Slightly larger anti-roll bars (properly balanced with respect to everthing else) can also be beneifical.
Huge wheels/tires can actually be counter-productive, since they are heavier and therefore increase rotating mass (@ the wheels) and vehicle weight, add rolling resistance and adversely impact frontal area and drag cofficient.
That's not "the same crap."
Rather, it addresses the fact that factory suspension geometry is often times altered beyond the point of adjustment (via alignment) and that replacement suspension components must then be ordered/installed in order to rectify things.
Many people who "slam" their vehicles aren't aware of that.
Lowering a car on the street makes no sense from a cost/handling point of view.
A good set of matched shocks and springs (like the ones used on the A-spec, which almost surely allow appropriate adjustment via alignment) is the way to go on the street. Slightly larger anti-roll bars (properly balanced with respect to everthing else) can also be beneifical.
Huge wheels/tires can actually be counter-productive, since they are heavier and therefore increase rotating mass (@ the wheels) and vehicle weight, add rolling resistance and adversely impact frontal area and drag cofficient.
i thought this sh!t was common knowledge.
02-24-2004, 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by adam209
i thought this sh!t was common knowledge.
i thought this sh!t was common knowledge.
It's quite uncommon.
And the few who are aware of it are oftem times ridiculed by those who aren't.
02-24-2004, 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by harddrivin1le
No, it's not.
It's quite uncommon.
And the few who are aware of it are oftem times ridiculed by those who aren't.
No, it's not.
It's quite uncommon.
And the few who are aware of it are oftem times ridiculed by those who aren't.
02-24-2004, 10:20 PM
#17
Fomer LS1 owner here too (98 T/A WS6, black on black like the commericals were at the time). Even the most heavily modded 04 TL's with only 3.2 liters will not touch the power of an LS1. After all the expensive TL mods (that aren't even not available yet) you might come close to a stock LS1. But LS1's can be modded as well and easily get over 400hp BEFORE adding a supercharger. My brothers 93 T/A with an LT1 and many mods including a vortech is the fastest street car I have ever seen. I think the last I heard he was doing the 1/4 mile at over 125mph and dynoed around 650 hp. You will never see numbers like that for a TL. He goes to the annual F-body events and is regarded as one of the best engine modder/tuners there. There is really no point in comparing a 04TL with any LS1 or LT1 (stock or modded). Just too much torque difference that can't be had with only 3.2 liters. BTW - My brother is a dentist and drives his 650hp car to work everyday 
That being said, I "hopped on" and installed the Injen CAI just to see what it will do. It's a simple/cheap mod that increases the fun factor. It is a little faster and louder and that makes it fun to drive. My only concerns are having to remove the bumper to change the filter (ridiculous if you ask me) and the risk of water getting into the engine. I am not concerned about any lack of "proof of any actual benefit" mentioned above because I can feel the difference. But, because of those two concerns I am pretty sure I am going to put the stock air box and duct work back on. While the CAI is a fun thing to have, the risk of water in the engine is not worth it. Even if that risk is low. The stock duct seems overly complex and restrictive, but while looking at the parts you can see that there is no way in hell you are ever going to get water in the engine. I want that piece of mind back.
That being said, I "hopped on" and installed the Injen CAI just to see what it will do. It's a simple/cheap mod that increases the fun factor. It is a little faster and louder and that makes it fun to drive. My only concerns are having to remove the bumper to change the filter (ridiculous if you ask me) and the risk of water getting into the engine. I am not concerned about any lack of "proof of any actual benefit" mentioned above because I can feel the difference. But, because of those two concerns I am pretty sure I am going to put the stock air box and duct work back on. While the CAI is a fun thing to have, the risk of water in the engine is not worth it. Even if that risk is low. The stock duct seems overly complex and restrictive, but while looking at the parts you can see that there is no way in hell you are ever going to get water in the engine. I want that piece of mind back.
02-24-2004, 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by dcarlinf1
That being said, I "hopped on" and installed the Injen CAI just to see what it will do. It's a simple/cheap mod that increases the fun factor. It is a little faster and louder and that makes it fun to drive. My only concerns are having to remove the bumper to change the filter (ridiculous if you ask me) and the risk of water getting into the engine. I am not concerned about any lack of "proof of any actual benefit" mentioned above because I can feel the difference. But, because of those two concerns I am pretty sure I am going to put the stock air box and duct work back on. While the CAI is a fun thing to have, the risk of water in the engine is not worth it. Even if that risk is low. The stock duct seems overly complex and restrictive, but while looking at the parts you can see that there is no way in hell you are ever going to get water in the engine. I want that piece of mind back.
That being said, I "hopped on" and installed the Injen CAI just to see what it will do. It's a simple/cheap mod that increases the fun factor. It is a little faster and louder and that makes it fun to drive. My only concerns are having to remove the bumper to change the filter (ridiculous if you ask me) and the risk of water getting into the engine. I am not concerned about any lack of "proof of any actual benefit" mentioned above because I can feel the difference. But, because of those two concerns I am pretty sure I am going to put the stock air box and duct work back on. While the CAI is a fun thing to have, the risk of water in the engine is not worth it. Even if that risk is low. The stock duct seems overly complex and restrictive, but while looking at the parts you can see that there is no way in hell you are ever going to get water in the engine. I want that piece of mind back.
I understand you wanting that peace of mind. I often wonder if I'm taking my Eclipse down the modded road a little too far, but so far so good. I'm hoping that some better engineering will prevail in the TL aftermarket and I'm willing to wait.
And as far as a TL beating an LS1 anytime soon (or ever), I'll be holding my breath.
There's no point in comparing the two anyway...they're entirely different classes of automobile....former LT1 owner here!
02-24-2004, 11:25 PM
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alright so maybe the TL won't beat an modded LT1 or even a stock one. you know what i dun really care cause i am not modding my car and have gone past those days. sheesh this forum is tough to get along with. topics tend to drift away.
02-25-2004, 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by theslik1
I'm not down on early "hoppers" necessarily :p, I'm just very skeptical of aftermarket tuners in general, especially with one lonely dyno chart that proves all their claims. The "butt dyno" can be very sensitive, but it's also susceptible to psychological influence, so I'd rather see consistent machine numbers and lots of 'em.
I understand you wanting that peace of mind. I often wonder if I'm taking my Eclipse down the modded road a little too far, but so far so good. I'm hoping that some better engineering will prevail in the TL aftermarket and I'm willing to wait.
And as far as a TL beating an LS1 anytime soon (or ever), I'll be holding my breath. There's no point in comparing the two anyway...they're entirely different classes of automobile.
...former LT1 owner here!
I'm not down on early "hoppers" necessarily :p, I'm just very skeptical of aftermarket tuners in general, especially with one lonely dyno chart that proves all their claims. The "butt dyno" can be very sensitive, but it's also susceptible to psychological influence, so I'd rather see consistent machine numbers and lots of 'em.
I understand you wanting that peace of mind. I often wonder if I'm taking my Eclipse down the modded road a little too far, but so far so good. I'm hoping that some better engineering will prevail in the TL aftermarket and I'm willing to wait.
And as far as a TL beating an LS1 anytime soon (or ever), I'll be holding my breath.
There's no point in comparing the two anyway...they're entirely different classes of automobile....former LT1 owner here!
59 degrees F, sea level elevation and 0% humidity is an example of a ridiculous (yet common) standard.
SAE NET HP/Torque ratings are corrected for far more realistic standards.
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~tcroy/horsepower.htm
02-25-2004, 07:56 AM
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Re: Try ebay
Originally posted by Vffr1
The complete A-Spec package has been going for $3,950 on ebay, that is for everything including the steering wheel and badges, you can even register your car with Acura as an A-Spec when you purschase the complete kit.
Mike Smeey,
The complete A-Spec package has been going for $3,950 on ebay, that is for everything including the steering wheel and badges, you can even register your car with Acura as an A-Spec when you purschase the complete kit.
Mike Smeey,
The entire package (installed) would go for ~ $1,795 if it were offered as a FACTORY installed RPO.
I can't imagine buying a new car as nice as the TL and then paying someone to replace springs, shocks, wheels, etc that I just paid for (included in the car's price) with NEW Acura parts.
There's just something wrong with that concept.
They'll make it a factory RPO if they're smart and I'll probably buy one if they do.
It's my opinion that the 6 speed cars should include all of the A-spec hardware (minus the silly spoilers and "ground effects, which I have absolutely NO use for.)
02-25-2004, 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by dcarlinf1
Fomer LS1 owner here too (98 T/A WS6, black on black like the commericals were at the time). Even the most heavily modded 04 TL's with only 3.2 liters will not touch the power of an LS1. After all the expensive TL mods (that aren't even not available yet) you might come close to a stock LS1. But LS1's can be modded as well and easily get over 400hp BEFORE adding a supercharger. My brothers 93 T/A with an LT1 and many mods including a vortech is the fastest street car I have ever seen. I think the last I heard he was doing the 1/4 mile at over 125mph and dynoed around 650 hp. You will never see numbers like that for a TL. He goes to the annual F-body events and is regarded as one of the best engine modder/tuners there. There is really no point in comparing a 04TL with any LS1 or LT1 (stock or modded). Just too much torque difference that can't be had with only 3.2 liters. BTW - My brother is a dentist and drives his 650hp car to work everyday
That being said, I "hopped on" and installed the Injen CAI just to see what it will do. It's a simple/cheap mod that increases the fun factor. It is a little faster and louder and that makes it fun to drive. My only concerns are having to remove the bumper to change the filter (ridiculous if you ask me) and the risk of water getting into the engine. I am not concerned about any lack of "proof of any actual benefit" mentioned above because I can feel the difference. But, because of those two concerns I am pretty sure I am going to put the stock air box and duct work back on. While the CAI is a fun thing to have, the risk of water in the engine is not worth it. Even if that risk is low. The stock duct seems overly complex and restrictive, but while looking at the parts you can see that there is no way in hell you are ever going to get water in the engine. I want that piece of mind back.
Fomer LS1 owner here too (98 T/A WS6, black on black like the commericals were at the time). Even the most heavily modded 04 TL's with only 3.2 liters will not touch the power of an LS1. After all the expensive TL mods (that aren't even not available yet) you might come close to a stock LS1. But LS1's can be modded as well and easily get over 400hp BEFORE adding a supercharger. My brothers 93 T/A with an LT1 and many mods including a vortech is the fastest street car I have ever seen. I think the last I heard he was doing the 1/4 mile at over 125mph and dynoed around 650 hp. You will never see numbers like that for a TL. He goes to the annual F-body events and is regarded as one of the best engine modder/tuners there. There is really no point in comparing a 04TL with any LS1 or LT1 (stock or modded). Just too much torque difference that can't be had with only 3.2 liters. BTW - My brother is a dentist and drives his 650hp car to work everyday
That being said, I "hopped on" and installed the Injen CAI just to see what it will do. It's a simple/cheap mod that increases the fun factor. It is a little faster and louder and that makes it fun to drive. My only concerns are having to remove the bumper to change the filter (ridiculous if you ask me) and the risk of water getting into the engine. I am not concerned about any lack of "proof of any actual benefit" mentioned above because I can feel the difference. But, because of those two concerns I am pretty sure I am going to put the stock air box and duct work back on. While the CAI is a fun thing to have, the risk of water in the engine is not worth it. Even if that risk is low. The stock duct seems overly complex and restrictive, but while looking at the parts you can see that there is no way in hell you are ever going to get water in the engine. I want that piece of mind back.
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