Turlock

Well my Dad got a new TL last night. It is a Silver Automatic with Navigation. It is absolutely goregeous and has tons of really cool features. My car, a 2000 GS400 with Nav used to be the most technological and fastest in the family but I fear thing may have changed.

While I concede that I have lost the technological advantage swiftly. But what about the speed issue???

Please only logical responses, no "you car sucks and will get completely obliterated nonsense" etc....I am in my 30's and both of us are equal drivers...

Monte TLS,MAX

GS400 is faster than an auto TL, the manual TL will give it a good run. GS is a high 5 to 60 mph so is the TL manual driven well and 1/4 mile trap speeds are close.

EFlecha

The GS400 will beat the auto, the 6sp I'd say its about even. In your particular case between you and your dad my money is on you.

vtechbrain

The TL will spank it handily in auto or 6spd. They have essentially the same HP and the tl weighs at least 500lbs less. The LS 430 with more HP and a little additional weight does 7.1 to 60. I don't know where people are pulling out these fast times maybe a black hat somewhere. The TL will spank any Lexus hands down. Even the "Sport" SC turns a 7 second 60. The only sport lexus is the IS 300 and everybody knows the sportiness in that one does not extend to it's puny engine.

Lore

I see that the V8 300HP GS430 does 0-60 in 5.8 (well, according to their site). That's pretty fast...

Monte TLS,MAX

[QUOTE]Originally posted by vtechbrain
The TL will spank it handily in auto or 6spd. They have essentially the same HP and the tl weighs at least 500lbs less. The LS 430 with more HP and a little additional weight does 7.1 to 60. I don't know where people are pulling out these fast times maybe a black hat somewhere. The TL will spank any Lexus hands down. Even the "Sport" SC turns a 7 second 60. The only sport lexus is the IS 300 and everybody knows the sportiness in that one does not extend to it's puny engine. [/QUOTE TL auto will get its ass handed to it by an auto GS4** off , it has tested from 5.7-5.9 secs to 60 in many publications and 7.1 for the LS430 is off. It is a low 6 and now its a high 5 for 04 with the addition of the new tranny .5 tenths-.7 tenths of a sec is a alot in straight line run

Turlock

Thanks for everyones (almost) logical response. To clear a little misinformation for VTECBrain--the GS is the fastest car in Lexus' lineup--people aren't pulling figures out of a "black hat" its just that they have checked information before they posted a response. The GS is heavy though and I think any speed contest will be very close, as long as its in a straight line--maybe a slight edge to the GS but not much. Throw a turn into it and goodbye TL, there is no way I will be able to get my pig to hang with the TL in the curves without some suspension upgrades.

I am amazed at the fit and finish of the TL, escpecially when its price is thrown in. Its an bargain!

Again, thanks for the comments and opinions. Moreover, thanks for keeping it civil for the most part. As a side note, neither car is going to kick the other cars a**; it will be pretty close.

Turlock

When I went to check on this post I saw a post directly above this in the list regarding a Lexus Forum. Please don't confuse me with anyone who says anything derogitory in regards to the new TL. As I previously stated, I think is a great car and a great bargain.

I think that car bashing is for idiots, obviously we are talking about nice cars here.

SergeyM

It is very difficult for a 6-cyl car to beat an 8-cyl car in the real life situation. If you are cruising in an auto TL in 5th and GS comes fast from behind there is not much you can do. From the stop the TL will have better chances and in the manual form should be able to keep up with GS. Both run 1/4 mile at 14.5.

DISRUPTV

a gs400 should handle a auto Tl rather well, beating it by a few car lengths...now the manual is a diff story.....however, both are excellent cars and either one would be a pleasuer 2 own

NOX 3.2

the manual TL is even lighter and
has more HP at the wheels than the auto...

so maybe the best driver will win...

Monte TLS,MAX

The Original poster said both are auto so we should just stick to auto to auto intead of all of these what if's! Auto to auto the TL is slower and is some .5 tenths-.7 tenths slower to 60 no doubt about it!

brahtw8

Both the SC and GS 430 are high 5 second to sixty, low to mid 14 second quarter mile capable cars. That puts them neck and neck with a TL 6MT and a bit ahead of a TL/5AT, on paper.

In the real world, the Lexi may have an advantage from a stop given RWD launch characteristics.

vtechbrain

Contrary to BS out there the GS 400 has less horsepower and weighs essentially the same as an LS 430. So unless it violates the laws of physics in auto form they will clock essentially the same. Consumer reports, who doesnt fudge their numbers clocked the LS 430 at 7.1 and the auto TL at 6.6 since when comparing number its best to compare the same source that puts the TL 1/2 a second fater than a LS 430. I don't know about the Einstein's posting these warp speeds for the GS but it looks like they're full of Sh*t!

EFlecha

dude.. lol ..

the GS is FASTER than the LS period..


I just beat a twin turbo GT2 today it was sweet..

I beat him by 5 car lengths..

my bad ass VTEC can beat anything in the world!

brahtw8

You love to be controversial and flippant don't you? How about some facts?

A 2000 GS 400 weighs 3693 pounds and has a 300 hp. and 310 ft/lbs V8.

A 2003 GS 430 weighs 3955 pounds and has a 290 hp., 320 fl/lbs V8.

I would expect there is different gearing, both in the transmission and rear differential, in the GS versus the LS, but I don't know that for sure.

In any event, for you to make such bold statements about a GS 400 based on performance data for an LS 430 is a mistake.

I like you, vtechbrain, but sometimes you go too far and this is one of those times. Not to mention your name should be spelled vtecbrain, unless you are an afficionado of portable cordless devices. ( See www.vtech.com ) :p

Nobody with an understanding of the GS and the LS would claim they perform the same. They are similarly powered, and the GS weighs 250 lbs less, and most likely (almost certainly) has more performance oriented gearing. I say most likely because I don't know off hand and don't care to track the information down at the moment.

In any event, I have seen with my own eyes a number of sources, autoweek and edmunds come to mind, with sub six second GS 400 times, and many others that confirm the GS is a competitor to a TL/6MT.

For once I actually want 1sicklex to make an appearance. :wow:

NOX 3.2

You are the one that mentioned Manual TL twice in your first post...

so your comments contradicts your post.

Anyway, the manual Tl is faster than the heavier GS anyday.

vtechbrain

You should visit the site again and read it carefully because the lexus site quotes the LS at 5.9 seconds to 60 compared to GS 5.8 WOW thats what I call a faster car. Again independent testing by a respected magazine(CR) tested the LS at 7.1seconds and the TL at 6.6 no amount of testimonials is going to contradict that established time mark!!!! The TlL will show the GS who's it's daddy any day!!!!!Just a simple fact of automotive life:toothless :toothless :toothless

Mav

GS400:

Base Price, USD 44,800 Engine Type dohc 90º V8
Powertrain Layout front engine/rwd Displacement, cc 3971
Horsepower@rpm 300@6000 Torque lb-ft@rpm 315@4000
Curb Weight, lb 3690 0-60 mph, sec 5.8
1/4 mile, sec@mph 14.3@98.9 600 ft slalom, mph 66.9
60-0 mph, ft 112 Top Speed, mph 150

I think it would all depend on the conditions and the drivers. I agree that both are great rides and would be a pleasure to own. I dont think any one would be spanking anyone if they raced.

PS...Dont try and compare the GS's breaking ability to...well....to virtually anything. At 112 feet 60-0, you better be buckled in or your going to get to see the hood real quick.

1SICKLEX

Ask and u shall recieve

This is a great thread except for this misleading info:Using magazine numbers, the lowest time I've seen is 5.5 in Edmunds. The highest, like a 6.1 in Car and Driver once. The GS 400 was the FASTEST ACCELERATING AUTOMATIC SEDAN until the Germans started using turbos and superchargers for everything. 0-60 in 5.7. GS 430, 0-60 in 5.8. Basically at least a 6 second car or less any way you cut it.
A manual Tl with a perfect launch did a 5.7 run, 5.8 last month in C&D ( they drop the clutch at like 4-5000rpm). I am sure an automatic is at least .5 seconds slower.

So it really is all on the driver. Whoever gets the better launch will win the race. At high speeds, the extra displacement of the GS will either pull the TL in or extend any lead.
Depends on the driver.

JoganJani

I second that.

NOX 3.2

I'm comparing using the same driver in both cars...

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

I can smoke stock GS400's all day long in my modded TL-S ...

Turlock

Wow! Go away for a weekend and a 20 replies show up. Thanks for everyones thoughts. I think it will be fun to see, but that won't happen until the spring when the local track opens up.

Again, I want to reiterate..I am still amazed at how nice the fit and finish of the new TL's are. The technology packed into it is amazing.

Brahtw8--thanks for this...

This was funniest thing I have read in a while. Please VTECHBRAIN before you go off on a Honda rant on me I should mentions that I had a 2002 Honda S2000 and really know what VTEC is. It cracks me up that the "facts expert" doesn't even know how to spell it.

Thanks guys. I can't wait to see these once you guys start modding these with wheels, susp, etc.

lindros2

As a passenger in a couple GS430's and a driver/owner of an auto TL, I can comfortably say that the GS will easily outrun an auto TL by 0.3-0.5 second (or more with the EL-42 tires); the manual will give the GS a run for it's money.

Rear wheel drive and better weight distribution help the GS.

-josh

ndabunka

Well, you got at least one thing WRONG in this post. The fastest production normally aspirated automatic was the 2001 CLK55. With 342HP and 376torque, it traveled from zero to sixty in UNDER 5.0 second (4.9 to be exact). I should know, I owned one. Edited, I actually do agree that in the case in question, the drivers will be the difference.

brahtw8

Not to stick up for 1sicklex, but he said fastest automatic SEDAN, and the CLK55 is a coupe, as you know, since you owned one.

In the SEDAN category, I think a 2001 E43 AMG, E55 (NA), 540ia, S8, etc. were as fast or faster than a contemporary GS 400.

vtechbrain

Some people are smoking some noxious weed. No Lexus has ever been the fastest anything, never. THey have concentrated in building the most comfortable, quietest sedans on the road and they have succeded. Their performance is not bad but definitely best in any performance category has never been in their book. Whats the beef in accepting that all lexuses are luxury boats that just cannot compete with the new TL in hustle?? There is no shame in that! Oh, BTW the TL's panasonic radio also sounds better than any 5k Lexus Mark Levinson not only in my book but in various Hi FI publications. Sorry Lexus fans compared to the new Acura crop (TSX, TL and upcoming RL) your cars (and the euro gangs) are only second best.

brahtw8

I wouldn't recommend that.

Sec. 66.0407(1)(b) Wis. Stats. defines noxious weeds as Canada thistle, leafy spurge and field bindweed (creeping Jenny) and any other weed the governing body of any municipality or the county board of any county by ordinance or resolution declares to be noxious within its respective boundaries.

Perhaps you would like to apply as the County weed commissioner?

See Sec. 66.0517(2)(a).

BTW, any response to the vtec/vtech fiasco?

1SICKLEX

This car was not out when the GS 400 was out anyway, it came afterwards, 3 whole years later. The GS had the title but not for long. The supercharged XJ-R took it, then the E55. Lord knows nowadays u need a V-14 and quad turbos to take the title now.

You are wasting precious oxygen for other people to breath....Clearly you forgot the ad campaign "Something wicked this way comes". It was stated in the Lexus ads and commercials after Motor Trend got a 5.7 run in the 60mph sprint. WTF would I lie.

You should be called vtechnobrains.:smackhead :piss2:

vtechbrain

Why get so personal? Is it that your only pushing commercial hot air and cannot substantiate your risorious claims??? Rest assured my brains are not in question since I get paid plenty to use them every day, therefore, your opinion regarding my IQ is as inconsequential as your attraction to overpriced, mechanically inferior automobiles. I simply recommend you pay defference to those cars out there which will otherwise happily humiliate you in a short road duel.

svtmike

Vtechbrain, you had me scrambling for the dictionary with that one, but for the life of me I can't figure out how "risorious" fits into that context.

Mike

<---- Risorious muscles do this, for those of you who don't run into the word very often either.

NOX 3.2

very common word.

ndabunka

Ah, um, your right. The CLK55 was a coupe. I was just captured by the fastest production automatic and was blinded from the sedan component. I stand corrected.

brahtw8

This is where we differ. I think the TL and the GS are well matched, and quite frankly I think that is an established fact of the automotive world that is not open for debate.

When you use words like humiliate, I think you go too far.

Am I to understand that your basis for this comparison remains performance data from Consumer Reports' test of a Lexus LS?

I cannot believe you continue to argue this point. It doesn't make any sense and the only thing you are convincing anyone of is your own hubris.

The TL is a great car, no doubt. The TL gave me so much more in everyday, all-weather driveability, reliability, content and value, while retaining the performance capabilities of the RWD cars at any sensible limit on the street.

I think you are a rabid TL fan who defends the TL beyond reason. That is fine, but try to recognize that and take a softer and more humorous approach to the whole thing.

1SICKLEX

Because vtechnobrains, you have no clue. Not a ****ing guess. How the hell can I make up something the Lexus claimed in advertisements? It is not my fault, you did not see the ad (probably were not old enough to read). Nowhere did I say the TL would get spanked. I said it would be a close race. Now your talking about how inferior and overpriced Lexus is, you started another fallacy.

Maybe to your minimum wage butt it is overpriced. But to Lexus competiton, BMW and Benz, Lexus is underpriced.

svtmike

Then what definition does it have that fits the phrase "your risorious claims"?

Mike

1SICKLEX

svtmike, another example of a person with one internet explorer window on Tl.com (or name a car forum) and another window open at websters.com, trying to impress us with words they do not know how to use in the proper context.

Not to mention, to make an effective argument, you should use words your audience knows.

NOX 3.2

claims you all laugh at...

maybe because they're considered silly ?

any word in the dictionary should be a valid one, after all that's why it was put there in the first place.
It's a good thing to enhance our vocabulary once in a while...

SergeyM

GS 400 was the fastest auto sedan but for 1 year only (1998). In 1999 the original E55 (5.5 liter non-turbo) took the title. 1999+ BMW 540 with VANOS system should be as fast or close to GS400/430.