Bushwah

I have an '04 SSM 6MT TL A-Spec and I drive pretty aggressively once in a while but not all the time. My buddy owns an '02 IS300 5MT and his clutch is slipping at 35k miles. His driving style is pretty similar to mine. According to Lexus, changing the clutch at around 30k is pretty common for an IS. I've had a manual all my life but they were all 4 cyl engines and I've never had to change my clutch until i've gone over a 100k miles. My question is for a V6, is that pretty common to replace a clutch after only 35k miles or is that just for an IS. I know the IS share simliar parts with the Supra and SC300s.


Also I was amazed at how much of a price increase Lexus charges their customers for parts. Accoriding to the part numbers, the I300 and the Supra uses the same flywheel but the flywheel of a Supra cost $375 and the IS300 cost $1350. I wonder if Acura does the same with similar Honda parts.

SouthernBoy

There are three major factors which have a direct affect upon clutch assembly life and servicability: 1) Design; 2) Installation; 3) Usage.

Design. This involves the original design of the clutch components such as size, material, clamping pressure, and component makeup.

Installation. This involves how the components were installed in the drive train. Alignment, proper torque, calibration (such as toeplay, etc.).

Usage. This is YOU.


Of these three items, by far and away the single most significant factor is operator use. Improper operation of a clutch assembly will have a MAJOR impact on its life. So assuming that items 1 and 2 are proper for the vehicle in question (your friend's IS300), 35,000 miles is WAY too little mileage from a clutch assembly.. barring racing and other extraneous things such as serious towing. And assuming that his IS300 DOES have a properly designed and installed clutch assembly, I would expect AT LEAST 4 times that kind of mileage from a clutch.

Sounds to me like you friend either doesn't know how to operate a manual transmission or he's putting in a lot of time practicing and doing holeshots.

PoochaKannInc

I'm surprised at that, just because as you mentioned, the IS uses Supra parts, and that clutch is known to be relatively sturdy. The stock 3.0 isn't anything to fear really anyway. The inline six has the strength to be turboed to crazy hp numbers, but stock it doesn't put out numbers that could kill a clutch in 35K miles UNLESS as SouthernBoy alluded to, there was some very aggressive driving going on.

jmn4667

I've heard of clutches wearing out at that mileage point, but it was usually the result of improper use. Of course, we all know how aggressive driving can age a cluth prematurely, but inexperience and bad habits can as well. Too many people "ride" or "feather" the clutch way too much. This treatment can do more damage than aggressive driving!

Personally, I have only owned one other car that had a manual clutch, it was an '86 Camaro 2.8L. When I sold it in 1989, it had over 50k miles and the clutch was not slipping one bit.

caball88

35K is too early for clutch replacement, he must have been new to manual tranny and rode the clutch too much to try to make shifting more smooth. my first MT car i had the original clutch just past 100K.

miiipilot

I agree with all of you guys regarding "improper usage"

I don't neccesarily agree with you on the "Aggressive" part.

In a previous life, I had a race-prepared SCCA ITS Acura GS-R. This was not a light-duty vehicle. I bought it with 43K on it. Changed the Timing and water-pump. Then added normal Headers, exhaust, but not a CAI (ITS won't allow it), SS brakelines, roll-cage, halon system, etc etc blah blah.

OK...I destroyed it (on-track) but in the 32,000 miles i put on the vehicle, I never EVER had a clutch problem. I am not a veteran driver, by any means. It was my first track car. I learned to Heel-Toe on that car even. BUT noooo problemos whatsoever with the clutch.

Unless you are a COMPLETE newbie at a MT drivetrain....then maaaaybe, but 35K is WEAK, very WEAK mileage for a new one. I would not stand for that.

miiipilot

KJSmitty

I guess it really doesn't surprise me that a clutch would be slipping after 35K miles.. Driving style and clutch use will comprise the majority of the "warn-out" factor but I also feel much of it has to do with the clutch components. Mainly the pressure plate and clutch disk itself. I just don't feel they are designed for the aggressive driver - doesn't matter if the car is of "sport" design or not. They are however, designed to give a smooth and easy driving experience for the average driver.
Anyway, for those of you that are having issues I would not replace the components with OEM parts. Look for a better alternative that would stand up to your style of driving. My guess it exceeds what Acura deems as "average".

Bushwah

Thanks for all your input but my buddy has been driving manuals most of his life and he has a 240 with 120k miles and with the orignal clutch. I personally think it's the car.

According to my buddy, the IS300 uses similar Supra parts but since it's a "Lexus" they added on something called an aggressive clutch dampening device to slow the engagement of the clutch to allow smoother shifts. The Supra does not have this and what everyone from IS300.net has been saying is the dampening device is hard on the clutch and can wear it sooner than later. They recomend after market clutches intstead of factory.

dlarchev

Does this guy keeps his foot on it all the time ? I've been told way back that we should NEVER keep our foot on the clutch, i.e. put the foot on it ONLY when changing speed. I've been through a Prelude, a 626 and 3 Accords and drove about 1 million km total with MT WITHOUT changing any clutch. I've given myself a break by buying an AT TL, and didn't need an MT to suck the power of this engine under our hood.

jmn4667

That's called "riding" the clutch and if he's an experienced MT user (like Bushwah claims he is), he should know better. Anyway, that's what the "dead" pedal (to the left of the clutch) is for...so you don't ride the clutch or the brake.

SouthernBoy

Riding the clutch refers to prolonged partial engagement where slippage is allowed to continue more than necessary. Resting your foot on the clutch pedal is.. well just resting your foot and unless you partially disengage the clutch, all you're doing is accelerating release bearing wear. Which is not a good thing, either.

miiipilot talks about racing an SCCA-prepared car and not wasting the clutch. If you watch what you're doing and know how to properly downshift and use the clutch in these conditions, you can get a lot of life out of it. However, I was referring to drag racing in my commentary.

I once owned (original owner) a real honest-to-God American mid-60's supercar. A 1966 SS 396/360 HP L34 Chevelle. I ordered this car to my specifications and 4 weeks 2 days later, I had it. For a period of maybe 1 1/2 years, I was street racing the about every other weekend (went to see my girl friend on the off weekends). In 5 1/2 years of ownership and 83,000 miles, the clutch was still super strong and would enable the car to break traction in all four gears. The mods were Hooker headers, an R3310 780 CFM Holley dual feed center pivot carburetor, LS6 valve springs and retainers, reworked ignition, Load Leverler rear shocks, 10" Mickey Thompson street tires, straight thru exhaust. I ordered it with the M21 Muncie close ration 4-speed and 3.73:1 positraction gears.

Now in those American supercars, the clutches were far superior than anything you would see coming from Europe or Japan, as was the rest of the drive train. So being of better stuff, they could take the punishment.

35,000 miles out of a clutch in a car not raced, abused, taxed, or operated improperly is WAY TOO LITTLE MILEAGE. As I mentioned, under normal driving conditions, you should expect at least 4+ times this kind of mileage out of a stock clutch. Something is not right here.

KJSmitty

I agree with you SouthernBoy. But I believe you also alluded to the answer in your description of your Chevelle..... They just don't make them like they use to. Even during my 8+ years at the dealership, most clutches were then being replaced between 60-90K miles. Not necessarily from slipping but chattering etc. I just feel its a matter of "weak" design compounded by above average abuse.. (My use of "abuse" represents driving beyond that of an aggravated gram-ma..)

By the way, if you ordered the Chevelle yourself back in 66, that makes you even older than I...

Cheers

SouthernBoy

To KJSmitty;

You're cruel. But yeah, I'm probably older than you.. chronologically, that is. Mentally, I'm still around 24.

There was an adage back then with those cars: "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday". GM, Ford, and Chrysler weren't stupid. They knew who was buying those machines and how they were being used. For them, it was cheap advertising and it worked. Dollar for dollar, a mid-60's GM supercar was the best thing going. A base model 1966 SS 396 Chevelle (L35 325 HP engine) carried an MSRP of under $3,000! Mine was a little over $3,600 with the options I ordered (I still have the original dealer order form).

The Acura appears to have a good clutch from what I can tell and should easily see over 150,000 to around 200,000 miles with no difficulty.. unless the unforeseen happens.

jime

When I sold my 95 6-speed Legend coupe with 140,000+ miles on it, the clutch was a solid as the day I drove it off the lot new. Don't mistreat an Acura clutch and it will last for the life of the car.

direk_04TL

since were all talking about clutches ... does anybody here know what the maximum hp and torque the stock TL clutch can handle? for example, if and when the comptech sc comes out, does one need to upgrade the stock clutch?thanks!

KJSmitty

Not slamming Acura here, but my opinion would be your OEM clutch wont last overly long with even more power... Mainly because if one has more power, one must play with that power more often.....

mclarenf3387

To the contrary, I think it will handle the power quite well. The 6MT CLs running Superchargers and Turbos are almost all using stock clutches and have no problems.

KJSmitty

Does the CL have the same part # etc. as the 3rd gen TL clutch?? I'm no Acura tuner/racer but it just appears that with the amount of clutch issues I have read on this board and other articles regarding the 3rd gen TL, I'm slowly coming to a "personal opinion" that they aren't as robust as they use to be.
As mentioned just a personal observation. Could just be a handful of "poor use" or bad OEM part.... Only time and use with mods will tell.....

I really don't think Acura planned/designed the TL to be a huge under 30(age driver, let alone under 20) car used for modding and "hot-rodding" per say... Not that that is a bad thing, the car is in fact superb looking/performing and desirable for all ages. The TL designers should be proud.
Just my thoughts/ramblings :-)

Cheers

mclarenf3387

Actually, I just looked and it does. The flywheel is different though. I would of thought the clutch would have been different, but who knew.

And the CL was in the same boat as the TL, not really meant as a hot-rod/tuner car, but there will always be people out there with the will to boost.

And I haven't heard of any problems with clutches from CL owners, but there were so few CLs made compared to TLs, and only a handful of 6 speed CLs (3700) produced, that you probably wouldn't hear of that many.