Need opinion on Valvoline Synblend 5W20
11-13-2004, 07:06 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Need opinion on Valvoline Synblend 5W20
After getting an education from our distinguished panel of experts, especially Road Rage, on oil I checked out some auto part stores for 5W20.. I found the desirable Motor Craft Synblend at Auto zone at $2.19 but also found that Valvoline has a Synblend 5W20 out. at $2.79 .Valvoline actually prints out: approved for Ford, Honda, ACEA A1 standards.etc. Motor Craft only lists Ford, Mercury. I actually returned some left over cases of Valvoline Synpower 5W40 from my Passat to Napa. This is a great oil, preferred by VW, with the ACEA rating etc. Proof was the perfect compression printouts on my Passat at 60K when we sold it. I felt it was not the preferred weight for the TL and so sold the Synpower back. I know that Road Rage feels MC Synblend is almost the perfect oil but how do you feel about the Valvoline Synblend for our TL? Your opinion is anxiously awaited. Thanks so much for coming to the resque. Regards
TLVR
TLVR
11-13-2004, 10:06 PM
#3
Not a Blowhole
Well, it took a lot of sleuthing on my part to sort out an answer for you - this stuff is not just in a big fat book somewhere. 
1) What the mfr prints on the bottle is essentially useless - so Valvoline specifcally mentioning Honda means nothing - would you expect Motorcraft to mention Honda products? They compete in the same markets.
2) Although the MC is not in this test, you can see that Valvoline makes high quality products in the comparo in this link (which you should read, as I explain all the termionology a layman needs to know to understand specs):
http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/index....owtopic=169852
Note how Valvoline mineral oil outperforms the Syn in a couple of areas.
3) It is impossible to tell how much syn and how much min are in blends, but it is generally around 15% - so if you wanted to make your own blend, you could take 4 quarts of a mfr's minoil and add 1 quart of their syn to get about the same blend - probably for less $
4) Both the Motocraft (MC) and Valvoline DuraBlend (DB) products are excellent. On paper, MC 5w20 and DB are nip and tuck. Both use Group III hydrocracked mineral oil bases - but Valvoline also lists GIII HC's as the stcok for its "full synthetic" product as well. So, it appears to be like most "synoils" today, a GIII lubricant. Paying more for Synpower over Durablend looks like a rip to me. Synpower used to contain Group IV PAO's, but Castrol changed the game forever, at least in the US. Point is, as I have said many times, the synoils of today and the minoils of today have little separation in many products, so the choice is obvious - go for the less expensive one.
Mobil, Red Line, Lubrication Engineers, and some others still use true synoils - GIV's and V's.
It is unclear whether MC "synoil" is a GIV - I suspect it is not.
OK, so now that the perfectly clear is perfectly ambiguous, let's look at some key numbers:
Viscosity 0degC/100degC DB: 8.4/45.8 MC: 8.8/49 Conclusion: both are fine and within API spec.
Pour point: DB: -36degC MC: -45degC So MC has a slight advantage in extremne cold.
Flash point: DB: 220decC MC: 185degC The DuraBlenbd would appear to have a big advantage, which usually suggests an advantage in resisting oxidation, and thickening from high temps. Yet.......
Noack Volatility: DB's rating of 13% is pretty poor - MC comes in at around 10%. The best GIV's and GIV's often are in single digits.
TBN: Both are around 8.0, which is excellent for a blend, and makes 7500 or more oil change intervals feasible. Mobil 1 is often not quite so high.
Additive packs and UOA's:
The MC 5w20 has been showing very good to outstanding UOA's, making a believer out of many skeptics, including me, that a 5w20 can get the job done in many daily driver cars. The MC additive package is advanced, with amines that are just now becoming more widely used in engine oils, due to the stricter demands of the SM/GF-4 API spec, and the reduced zinc/phos requirements of the SL/SM specs.
Valvoline's additive package is generally not considered to be as advanced, but their UOA's look good. The buzz for "oil heads" is that Valvoline is "old school", but gets the job done, while MC is more advanced. I will say that the MC UOA's, in a wide variety of engines, has looked a bit better to me than Valvoline's.
Either product is outstanding - I would go with the one you can buy for less money.
Castrol Syntec is also an otustanding GIII-based "synoil", but much mroe costly - it has a more robust additive package IMO, which would explain its uniformly excellent UOA's. Whether it is worth it to you is your call.
In pure minoils, Havoline 5w20 is outstanding.
************************************************** **************
So now you might ask, is it "worth it" to go for a full synoil over a synblend.
My answer as of 11/13/04 is that the premium price synoils seem to use better additives, which will provide a benefit if you are very tough on your car - sustained high speeds, towing, extreme weather variances between hot and cold, very high-rpm driving habits (go to redline a lot). If you like the idea of extended drain intervals and are ready to do regulatr oil analyses to determine the optimum OCI for your car, premum synoils are a must. But if you are not, but are willing to invest as "insurance", a premium synoil may be your choice.
Otherwise, I think the performance gap is not there for msot people, and straight minoils, or inexpensive blends like the ones discussed in this thread, are the way to go. If you change oils a lot, a premium synoil is a waste of money and resources.
************************************************** **************
I am using MC 5w20 until I reach 7500 miles. DB is one I would have no hesitation using. Althought I do not like Catrol as a company, their GIII based Syntec products deliver - maybe it is their high moly content (Valvoline uses NONE, i might add).
Long term? I will likely stick with MC, or go with what i use in the S2000 - Lubrication Engineers 8130 10w30. I have posted on it in detail, and the 3G Garage will point you to my work on this product. It is a GII+/GIV synblend, from a product with superb quality control (a real issue in many mass-produced oils). Even though it is not a recommended vis, it's syn bases allow it to flow like a 5w when cold, and the 30w is perfect for my use in hot Virginia summers. The loss of economy vs. 5w20 is maybe 1% or so - big deal.
I know this is not a simple "use this" answer, but that is not my style. You will have to choose. I lead a large team at my job, and train my staff in "assertive leadership". So I would say to you if you cannot choose:
Use the Motorcraft 5w20 synblend, change when the car tells you to. You cannot go wrong with that formula.
RR.
1) What the mfr prints on the bottle is essentially useless - so Valvoline specifcally mentioning Honda means nothing - would you expect Motorcraft to mention Honda products? They compete in the same markets.
2) Although the MC is not in this test, you can see that Valvoline makes high quality products in the comparo in this link (which you should read, as I explain all the termionology a layman needs to know to understand specs):
http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/index....owtopic=169852
Note how Valvoline mineral oil outperforms the Syn in a couple of areas.
3) It is impossible to tell how much syn and how much min are in blends, but it is generally around 15% - so if you wanted to make your own blend, you could take 4 quarts of a mfr's minoil and add 1 quart of their syn to get about the same blend - probably for less $
4) Both the Motocraft (MC) and Valvoline DuraBlend (DB) products are excellent. On paper, MC 5w20 and DB are nip and tuck. Both use Group III hydrocracked mineral oil bases - but Valvoline also lists GIII HC's as the stcok for its "full synthetic" product as well. So, it appears to be like most "synoils" today, a GIII lubricant. Paying more for Synpower over Durablend looks like a rip to me. Synpower used to contain Group IV PAO's, but Castrol changed the game forever, at least in the US. Point is, as I have said many times, the synoils of today and the minoils of today have little separation in many products, so the choice is obvious - go for the less expensive one.
Mobil, Red Line, Lubrication Engineers, and some others still use true synoils - GIV's and V's.
It is unclear whether MC "synoil" is a GIV - I suspect it is not.
OK, so now that the perfectly clear is perfectly ambiguous, let's look at some key numbers:
Viscosity 0degC/100degC DB: 8.4/45.8 MC: 8.8/49 Conclusion: both are fine and within API spec.
Pour point: DB: -36degC MC: -45degC So MC has a slight advantage in extremne cold.
Flash point: DB: 220decC MC: 185degC The DuraBlenbd would appear to have a big advantage, which usually suggests an advantage in resisting oxidation, and thickening from high temps. Yet.......
Noack Volatility: DB's rating of 13% is pretty poor - MC comes in at around 10%. The best GIV's and GIV's often are in single digits.
TBN: Both are around 8.0, which is excellent for a blend, and makes 7500 or more oil change intervals feasible. Mobil 1 is often not quite so high.
Additive packs and UOA's:
The MC 5w20 has been showing very good to outstanding UOA's, making a believer out of many skeptics, including me, that a 5w20 can get the job done in many daily driver cars. The MC additive package is advanced, with amines that are just now becoming more widely used in engine oils, due to the stricter demands of the SM/GF-4 API spec, and the reduced zinc/phos requirements of the SL/SM specs.
Valvoline's additive package is generally not considered to be as advanced, but their UOA's look good. The buzz for "oil heads" is that Valvoline is "old school", but gets the job done, while MC is more advanced. I will say that the MC UOA's, in a wide variety of engines, has looked a bit better to me than Valvoline's.
Either product is outstanding - I would go with the one you can buy for less money.
Castrol Syntec is also an otustanding GIII-based "synoil", but much mroe costly - it has a more robust additive package IMO, which would explain its uniformly excellent UOA's. Whether it is worth it to you is your call.
In pure minoils, Havoline 5w20 is outstanding.
************************************************** **************
So now you might ask, is it "worth it" to go for a full synoil over a synblend.
My answer as of 11/13/04 is that the premium price synoils seem to use better additives, which will provide a benefit if you are very tough on your car - sustained high speeds, towing, extreme weather variances between hot and cold, very high-rpm driving habits (go to redline a lot). If you like the idea of extended drain intervals and are ready to do regulatr oil analyses to determine the optimum OCI for your car, premum synoils are a must. But if you are not, but are willing to invest as "insurance", a premium synoil may be your choice.
Otherwise, I think the performance gap is not there for msot people, and straight minoils, or inexpensive blends like the ones discussed in this thread, are the way to go. If you change oils a lot, a premium synoil is a waste of money and resources.
************************************************** **************
I am using MC 5w20 until I reach 7500 miles. DB is one I would have no hesitation using. Althought I do not like Catrol as a company, their GIII based Syntec products deliver - maybe it is their high moly content (Valvoline uses NONE, i might add).
Long term? I will likely stick with MC, or go with what i use in the S2000 - Lubrication Engineers 8130 10w30. I have posted on it in detail, and the 3G Garage will point you to my work on this product. It is a GII+/GIV synblend, from a product with superb quality control (a real issue in many mass-produced oils). Even though it is not a recommended vis, it's syn bases allow it to flow like a 5w when cold, and the 30w is perfect for my use in hot Virginia summers. The loss of economy vs. 5w20 is maybe 1% or so - big deal.
I know this is not a simple "use this" answer, but that is not my style. You will have to choose. I lead a large team at my job, and train my staff in "assertive leadership". So I would say to you if you cannot choose:
Use the Motorcraft 5w20 synblend, change when the car tells you to. You cannot go wrong with that formula.
RR.
11-14-2004, 12:29 AM
#4
Gratis dictum
TLVR Now you know why I didn't comment on the merits of the oils you mentioned. I was hoping that someone more knowledgable than I would jump in, and he did. From my perspective, you can take Road Rages explanation and recommendations to the bank. Solid stuff!
01-22-2005, 09:35 PM
#5
Chief
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Road Rage, What do you think about Torco SR-1 oils??? Here is a link that maybe you could let us know if you feel it's up there with the MotorCraft. Thanks.
http://www.torcoracingoils.com/produ...sGroupIDPK=110
http://www.torcoracingoils.com/produ...sGroupIDPK=110
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