My wife almost died today..
05-28-2005, 01:19 PM
#201
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Originally Posted by Formula 350
Well, I missed that important part of that specific section, but I still say that there is not a cooling off period based on this:
My understanding is that this car's from CA. So "Texas law" is just going to confuse the issue.
Do a Google on "[Your state] lemon law" and you'll get a slug 'o lawyers falling all over each other to get your case. But some are kind enough to inadvertently drop some useful information, and so this will be my 2nd contribution to this thread . . .
California Lemon Law Statute
CA Civil Code Sections 1793.2(d) & 1793.22 (Tanner Consumer Protection Act)
(2) If the manufacturer or its representative in this state is unable to service or repair a new motor vehicle, as that term is defined in paragraph (2) of subdivision (e) of Section 1793.22, to conform to the applicable express warranties after a reasonable number of attempts, the manufacturer shall either promptly replace the new motor vehicle in accordance with subparagraph (A) or promptly make restitution to the buyer in accordance with subparagraph (B). However, the buyer shall be free to elect restitution in lieu of replacement, and in no event shall the buyer be required by the manufacturer to accept a replacement vehicle.
(A) In the case of replacement, the manufacturer shall replace the buyer's vehicle with a new motor vehicle substantially identical to the vehicle replaced. The replacement vehicle shall be accompanied by all express and implied warranties that normally accompany new motor vehicles of that specific kind. The manufacturer also shall pay for, or to, the buyer the amount of any sales or use tax, license fees, registration fees, and other official fees which the buyer is obligated to pay in connection with the replacement, plus any incidental damages to which the buyer is entitled under Section 1794, including, but not limited to, reasonable repair, towing, and rental car costs actually incurred by the buyer.
(B) In the case of restitution, the manufacturer shall make restitution in an amount equal to the actual price paid or payable by the buyer, including any charges for transportation and manufacturer-installed options, but excluding nonmanufacturer items installed by a dealer or the buyer, and including any collateral charges such as sales tax, license fees, registration fees, and other official fees, plus any incidental damages to which the buyer is entitled under Section 1794, including, but not limited to, reasonable repair, towing, and rental car costs actually incurred by the buyer.
(C) When the manufacturer replaces the new motor vehicle pursuant to subparagraph (A), the buyer shall only be liable to pay the manufacturer an amount directly attributable to use by the buyer of the replaced vehicle prior to the time the buyer first delivered the vehicle to the manufacturer or distributor, or its authorized service and repair facility for correction of the problem that gave rise to the nonconformity. When restitution is made pursuant to subparagraph (B), the amount to be paid by the manufacturer to the buyer may be reduced by the manufacturer by that amount directly attributable to use by the buyer prior to the time the buyer first delivered the vehicle to the manufacturer or distributor, or its authorized service and repair facility for correction of the problem that gave rise to the nonconformity. The amount directly attributable to use by the buyer shall be determined by multiplying the actual price of the new motor vehicle paid or payable by the buyer, including any charges for transportation and manufacturer-installed options, by a fraction having as its denominator 120,000 and having as its numerator the number of miles traveled by the new motor vehicle prior to the time the buyer first delivered the vehicle to the manufacturer or distributor, or its authorized service and repair facility for correction of the problem that gave rise to the nonconformity. Nothing in this paragraph shall in any way limit the rights or remedies available to the buyer under any other law.
1793.22. (a) This section shall be known and may be cited as the Tanner Consumer Protection Act.(B) In the case of restitution, the manufacturer shall make restitution in an amount equal to the actual price paid or payable by the buyer, including any charges for transportation and manufacturer-installed options, but excluding nonmanufacturer items installed by a dealer or the buyer, and including any collateral charges such as sales tax, license fees, registration fees, and other official fees, plus any incidental damages to which the buyer is entitled under Section 1794, including, but not limited to, reasonable repair, towing, and rental car costs actually incurred by the buyer.
(C) When the manufacturer replaces the new motor vehicle pursuant to subparagraph (A), the buyer shall only be liable to pay the manufacturer an amount directly attributable to use by the buyer of the replaced vehicle prior to the time the buyer first delivered the vehicle to the manufacturer or distributor, or its authorized service and repair facility for correction of the problem that gave rise to the nonconformity. When restitution is made pursuant to subparagraph (B), the amount to be paid by the manufacturer to the buyer may be reduced by the manufacturer by that amount directly attributable to use by the buyer prior to the time the buyer first delivered the vehicle to the manufacturer or distributor, or its authorized service and repair facility for correction of the problem that gave rise to the nonconformity. The amount directly attributable to use by the buyer shall be determined by multiplying the actual price of the new motor vehicle paid or payable by the buyer, including any charges for transportation and manufacturer-installed options, by a fraction having as its denominator 120,000 and having as its numerator the number of miles traveled by the new motor vehicle prior to the time the buyer first delivered the vehicle to the manufacturer or distributor, or its authorized service and repair facility for correction of the problem that gave rise to the nonconformity. Nothing in this paragraph shall in any way limit the rights or remedies available to the buyer under any other law.
(b) It shall be presumed that a reasonable number of attempts have been made to conform a new motor vehicle to the applicable express warranties if, within 18 months from delivery to the buyer or 18,000 miles on the odometer of the vehicle, whichever occurs first, one or more of the following occurs:
(1) The same nonconformity results in a condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven and the nonconformity has been subject to repair two or more times by the manufacturer or its agents, and the buyer or lessee has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the nonconformity.
(2) The same nonconformity has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents and the buyer has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the nonconformity.
(3) The vehicle is out of service by reason of repair of nonconformities by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 calendar days since delivery of the vehicle to the buyer. The 30-day limit shall be extended only if repairs cannot be performed due to conditions beyond the control of the manufacturer or its agents. The buyer shall be required to directly notify the manufacturer pursuant to paragraphs (1) and (2) only if the manufacturer has clearly and conspicuously disclosed to the buyer, with the warranty or the owner's manual, the provisions of this section and that of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2, including the requirement that the buyer must notify the manufacturer directly pursuant to paragraphs (1) and (2). The notification, if required, shall be sent to the address, if any, specified clearly and conspicuously by the manufacturer in the warranty or owner's manual. This presumption shall be a rebuttable presumption affecting the burden of proof, and it may be asserted by the buyer in any civil action, including an action in small claims court, or other formal or informal proceeding.
(c) If a qualified third-party dispute resolution process exists, and the buyer receives timely notification in writing of the availability of that qualified third-party dispute resolution process with a description of its operation and effect, the presumption in subdivision (b) may not be asserted by the buyer until after the buyer has initially resorted to the qualified third-party dispute resolution process as required in subdivision (d). Notification of the availability of the qualified third-party dispute resolution process is not timely if the buyer suffers any prejudice resulting from any delay in giving the notification. If a qualified third-party dispute resolution process does not exist, or if the buyer is dissatisfied with that third-party decision, or if the manufacturer or its agent neglects to promptly fulfill the terms of the qualified third-party dispute resolution process decision after the decision is accepted by the buyer, the buyer may assert the presumption provided in subdivision (b) in an action to enforce the buyer's rights under subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2. The findings and decision of a qualified third-party dispute resolution process shall be admissible in evidence in the action without further foundation. Any period of limitation of actions under any federal or California laws with respect to any person shall be extended for a period equal to the number of days between the date a complaint is filed with a third-party dispute resolution process and the date of its decision or the date before which the manufacturer or its agent is required by the decision to fulfill its terms if the decision is accepted by the buyer, whichever occurs later. (2) The same nonconformity has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents and the buyer has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the nonconformity.
(3) The vehicle is out of service by reason of repair of nonconformities by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 calendar days since delivery of the vehicle to the buyer. The 30-day limit shall be extended only if repairs cannot be performed due to conditions beyond the control of the manufacturer or its agents. The buyer shall be required to directly notify the manufacturer pursuant to paragraphs (1) and (2) only if the manufacturer has clearly and conspicuously disclosed to the buyer, with the warranty or the owner's manual, the provisions of this section and that of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2, including the requirement that the buyer must notify the manufacturer directly pursuant to paragraphs (1) and (2). The notification, if required, shall be sent to the address, if any, specified clearly and conspicuously by the manufacturer in the warranty or owner's manual. This presumption shall be a rebuttable presumption affecting the burden of proof, and it may be asserted by the buyer in any civil action, including an action in small claims court, or other formal or informal proceeding.
(d) A qualified third-party dispute resolution process shall be one that does all of the following:
(1) Complies with the minimum requirements of the Federal Trade Commission for informal dispute settlement procedures as set forth in Part 703 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations, as those regulations read on January 1, 1987.
(2) Renders decisions which are binding on the manufacturer if the buyer elects to accept the decision.
(3) Prescribes a reasonable time, not to exceed 30 days after the decision is accepted by the buyer, within which the manufacturer or its agent must fulfill the terms of its decisions.
(4) Provides arbitrators who are assigned to decide disputes with copies of, and instruction in, the provisions of the Federal Trade Commission's regulations in Part 703 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations as those regulations read on January 1, 1987, Division 2 (commencing with Section 2101) of the Commercial Code, and this chapter.
(5) Requires the manufacturer, when the process orders, under the terms of this chapter, either that the nonconforming motor vehicle be replaced if the buyer consents to this remedy or that restitution be made to the buyer, to replace the motor vehicle or make restitution in accordance with paragraph (2) of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2.
(6) Provides, at the request of the arbitrator or a majority of the arbitration panel, for an inspection and written report on the condition of a nonconforming motor vehicle, at no cost to the buyer, by an automobile expert who is independent of the manufacturer.
(7) Takes into account, in rendering decisions, all legal and equitable factors, including, but not limited to, the written warranty, the rights and remedies conferred in regulations of the Federal Trade Commission contained in Part 703 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations as those regulations read on January 1, 1987, Division 2 (commencing with Section 2101) of the Commercial Code, this chapter, and any other equitable considerations appropriate in the circumstances. Nothing in this chapter requires that, to be certified as a qualified third-party dispute resolution process pursuant to this section, decisions of the process must consider or provide remedies in the form of awards of punitive damages or multiple damages, under subdivision (c) of Section 1794, or of attorneys' fees under subdivision (d) of Section 1794, or of consequential damages other than as provided in subdivisions (a) and (b) of Section 1794, including, but not limited to, reasonable repair, towing, and rental car costs actually incurred by the buyer.
(8) Requires that no arbitrator deciding a dispute may be a party to the dispute and that no other person, including an employee, agent, or dealer for the manufacturer, may be allowed to participate substantively in the merits of any dispute with the arbitrator unless the buyer is allowed to participate also. Nothing in this subdivision prohibits any member of an arbitration board from deciding a dispute.
(9) Obtains and maintains certification by the Department of Consumer Affairs pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 472) of Division 1 of the Business and Professions Code.
(e) For the purposes of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2 and this section, the following terms have the following meanings: (2) Renders decisions which are binding on the manufacturer if the buyer elects to accept the decision.
(3) Prescribes a reasonable time, not to exceed 30 days after the decision is accepted by the buyer, within which the manufacturer or its agent must fulfill the terms of its decisions.
(4) Provides arbitrators who are assigned to decide disputes with copies of, and instruction in, the provisions of the Federal Trade Commission's regulations in Part 703 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations as those regulations read on January 1, 1987, Division 2 (commencing with Section 2101) of the Commercial Code, and this chapter.
(5) Requires the manufacturer, when the process orders, under the terms of this chapter, either that the nonconforming motor vehicle be replaced if the buyer consents to this remedy or that restitution be made to the buyer, to replace the motor vehicle or make restitution in accordance with paragraph (2) of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2.
(6) Provides, at the request of the arbitrator or a majority of the arbitration panel, for an inspection and written report on the condition of a nonconforming motor vehicle, at no cost to the buyer, by an automobile expert who is independent of the manufacturer.
(7) Takes into account, in rendering decisions, all legal and equitable factors, including, but not limited to, the written warranty, the rights and remedies conferred in regulations of the Federal Trade Commission contained in Part 703 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations as those regulations read on January 1, 1987, Division 2 (commencing with Section 2101) of the Commercial Code, this chapter, and any other equitable considerations appropriate in the circumstances. Nothing in this chapter requires that, to be certified as a qualified third-party dispute resolution process pursuant to this section, decisions of the process must consider or provide remedies in the form of awards of punitive damages or multiple damages, under subdivision (c) of Section 1794, or of attorneys' fees under subdivision (d) of Section 1794, or of consequential damages other than as provided in subdivisions (a) and (b) of Section 1794, including, but not limited to, reasonable repair, towing, and rental car costs actually incurred by the buyer.
(8) Requires that no arbitrator deciding a dispute may be a party to the dispute and that no other person, including an employee, agent, or dealer for the manufacturer, may be allowed to participate substantively in the merits of any dispute with the arbitrator unless the buyer is allowed to participate also. Nothing in this subdivision prohibits any member of an arbitration board from deciding a dispute.
(9) Obtains and maintains certification by the Department of Consumer Affairs pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 472) of Division 1 of the Business and Professions Code.
(1) "Nonconformity" means a nonconformity which substantially impairs the use, value, or safety of the new motor vehicle to the buyer or lessee.
(2) "New motor vehicle" means a new motor vehicle that is bought or used primarily for personal, family, or household purposes. "New motor vehicle" also means a new motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight under 10,000 pounds that is bought or used primarily for business purposes by a person, including a partnership, limited liability company, corporation, association, or any other legal entity, to which not more than five motor vehicles are registered in this state. "New motor vehicle" includes the chassis, chassis cab, and that portion of a motor home devoted to its propulsion, but does not include any portion designed, used, or maintained primarily for human habitation, a dealer-owned vehicle and a "demonstrator" or other motor vehicle sold with a manufacturer's new car warranty but does not include a motorcycle or a motor vehicle which is not registered under the Vehicle Code because it is to be operated or used exclusively off the highways. A demonstrator is a vehicle assigned by a dealer for the purpose of demonstrating qualities and characteristics common to vehicles of the same or similar model and type.
(3) "Motor home" means a vehicular unit built on, or permanently attached to, a self-propelled motor vehicle chassis, chassis cab, or van, which becomes an integral part of the completed vehicle, designed for human habitation for recreational or emergency occupancy.
(f) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall sell, either at wholesale or retail, lease, or transfer a motor vehicle transferred by a buyer or lessee to a manufacturer pursuant to paragraph (2) of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2 or a similar statute of any other state, unless the nature of the nonconformity experienced by the original buyer or lessee is clearly and conspicuously disclosed to the prospective buyer, lessee, or transferee, the nonconformity is corrected, and the manufacturer warrants to the new buyer, lessee, or transferee in writing for a period of one year that the motor vehicle is free of that nonconformity. (2) "New motor vehicle" means a new motor vehicle that is bought or used primarily for personal, family, or household purposes. "New motor vehicle" also means a new motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight under 10,000 pounds that is bought or used primarily for business purposes by a person, including a partnership, limited liability company, corporation, association, or any other legal entity, to which not more than five motor vehicles are registered in this state. "New motor vehicle" includes the chassis, chassis cab, and that portion of a motor home devoted to its propulsion, but does not include any portion designed, used, or maintained primarily for human habitation, a dealer-owned vehicle and a "demonstrator" or other motor vehicle sold with a manufacturer's new car warranty but does not include a motorcycle or a motor vehicle which is not registered under the Vehicle Code because it is to be operated or used exclusively off the highways. A demonstrator is a vehicle assigned by a dealer for the purpose of demonstrating qualities and characteristics common to vehicles of the same or similar model and type.
(3) "Motor home" means a vehicular unit built on, or permanently attached to, a self-propelled motor vehicle chassis, chassis cab, or van, which becomes an integral part of the completed vehicle, designed for human habitation for recreational or emergency occupancy.
(2) Except for the requirement that the nature of the nonconformity be disclosed to the transferee, paragraph (1) does not apply to the transfer of a motor vehicle to an educational institution if the purpose of the transfer is to make the motor vehicle available for use in automotive repair courses.
(Amended Sec. 1, Ch. 679, Stats. 2000. Effective January 1, 2001.)
05-29-2005, 12:02 AM
#202
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"Nonconformity"
Sheese -- musta put everyone to sleep with that last wad!
Here's the bottom line. The car is not >>FUBAR<<. In any discussion with AHS and its local minions, the particular aspect that markdesign notes is a:
"... nonconformity [which] results in a condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury"
and it is
"in violation of the express consumer warranty / warrantees"
Don't threaten. Just make sure "Tanner" gets cited on every page of every document you write.
Also remember: a service department has two kinds of people: blue collars and white collars. 95% of the white collars have never done anything more complicated on a car than change license plates.
Sheese -- musta put everyone to sleep with that last wad!
Here's the bottom line. The car is not >>FUBAR<<. In any discussion with AHS and its local minions, the particular aspect that markdesign notes is a:
"... nonconformity [which] results in a condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury"
and it is
"in violation of the express consumer warranty / warrantees"
Don't threaten. Just make sure "Tanner" gets cited on every page of every document you write.
Also remember: a service department has two kinds of people: blue collars and white collars. 95% of the white collars have never done anything more complicated on a car than change license plates.
05-29-2005, 01:27 AM
#203
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Originally Posted by gsrthomas
Situations like this make me mad.
You bught a 35k car and within less then 1k miles its in the shop??? Thats simply unexceptable..
Thats why i'm not in a TL today. EVERY brand new car I bought I have made over 150k miles on it and I never took any of my new cars to the dealer, not even ONCE out of the 150k+ miles.. Yes I need routine maintenance and minor repairs but nothing for warranty work.
You bught a 35k car and within less then 1k miles its in the shop??? Thats simply unexceptable..
Thats why i'm not in a TL today. EVERY brand new car I bought I have made over 150k miles on it and I never took any of my new cars to the dealer, not even ONCE out of the 150k+ miles.. Yes I need routine maintenance and minor repairs but nothing for warranty work.
it happens on every brand
my dad used to have a mercedes S class had a lot of problems too even the car was brand new and it's more than $100k
05-31-2005, 11:58 AM
#204
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UPDATE: (final...)
Wooohoooo!!
I just got a call from american honda this morning. She said she received the BBB complaint that i had submitted and that she had called the dealership servicing the vehicle.
The dealership confirmed with her that the wheel does lock up and that they are still not able to fix the problem.
She then did make an offer to me to replace the vehicle!!!!! and I accepted!!!
only drawback is that it could take 2 weeks, at the worst case scenario 3 months to get the vechicle that i want, but i really dont care about that.
Again, big thanks to this community and some of you who PM me with personal stories and great advice that I was studying up to follow through with. Good thing it didnt have to go that far.
In summary, if you have a lemon, go through the BBB auto line first. It coulde lead to a faster resolution and avoid lawer fees.
~mark
(can i close this thread now?)
Wooohoooo!!
I just got a call from american honda this morning. She said she received the BBB complaint that i had submitted and that she had called the dealership servicing the vehicle.
The dealership confirmed with her that the wheel does lock up and that they are still not able to fix the problem.
She then did make an offer to me to replace the vehicle!!!!! and I accepted!!!
only drawback is that it could take 2 weeks, at the worst case scenario 3 months to get the vechicle that i want, but i really dont care about that.
Again, big thanks to this community and some of you who PM me with personal stories and great advice that I was studying up to follow through with. Good thing it didnt have to go that far.
In summary, if you have a lemon, go through the BBB auto line first. It coulde lead to a faster resolution and avoid lawer fees.
~mark
(can i close this thread now?)
05-31-2005, 12:01 PM
#205
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Hey good for you man! Way to stick up for your rights. Enjoy the new-new car
Originally Posted by markdesign
UPDATE: (final...)
Wooohoooo!!
I just got a call from american honda this morning. She said she received the BBB complaint that i had submitted and that she had called the dealership servicing the vehicle.
The dealership confirmed with her that the wheel does lock up and that they are still not able to fix the problem.
She then did make an offer to me to replace the vehicle!!!!! and I accepted!!!
only drawback is that it could take 2 weeks, at the worst case scenario 3 months to get the vechicle that i want, but i really dont care about that.
Again, big thanks to this community and some of you who PM me with personal stories and great advice that I was studying up to follow through with. Good thing it didnt have to go that far.
In summary, if you have a lemon, go through the BBB auto line first. It coulde lead to a faster resolution and avoid lawer fees.
~mark
(can i close this thread now?)
Wooohoooo!!
I just got a call from american honda this morning. She said she received the BBB complaint that i had submitted and that she had called the dealership servicing the vehicle.
The dealership confirmed with her that the wheel does lock up and that they are still not able to fix the problem.
She then did make an offer to me to replace the vehicle!!!!! and I accepted!!!
only drawback is that it could take 2 weeks, at the worst case scenario 3 months to get the vechicle that i want, but i really dont care about that.
Again, big thanks to this community and some of you who PM me with personal stories and great advice that I was studying up to follow through with. Good thing it didnt have to go that far.
In summary, if you have a lemon, go through the BBB auto line first. It coulde lead to a faster resolution and avoid lawer fees.
~mark
(can i close this thread now?)
05-31-2005, 12:10 PM
#207
Awesome !!! This solution has to be one of a kind, I dont think anyone on this forum has been able to get a new car this soon and that too without lawyers and everything...anyways congrats and enjoy.
And BOOO to all the fu*c*ers that were brewing up irrelavant stuff about driver error and driving school and all that shit WITHOUT knowing the FACTS...
And BOOO to all the fu*c*ers that were brewing up irrelavant stuff about driver error and driving school and all that shit WITHOUT knowing the FACTS...
05-31-2005, 12:16 PM
#208
As requested by Mark, this thread is now closed.
Let me say, for all the people who want to say this but can't because the thread is closed, that we are all very happy with your results. This proves that a little extra effort can result in a good outcome, and also thanks to Acura for such a positive attitude.
This should also make your wife feel a lot better after getting all those negative comments from people about women drivers, driver error, lack of attention, etc.
Does make you wonder what they are going to do with your old vehicle.
Let me say, for all the people who want to say this but can't because the thread is closed, that we are all very happy with your results. This proves that a little extra effort can result in a good outcome, and also thanks to Acura for such a positive attitude.
This should also make your wife feel a lot better after getting all those negative comments from people about women drivers, driver error, lack of attention, etc.
Does make you wonder what they are going to do with your old vehicle.
05-31-2005, 01:14 PM
#209
I got this in a PM from cpurick, which is good info so I am going to post it here. I am making a special exception in this case because of the nature of the reply.
Originally Posted by cpurick
This kind of buy-back is extremely rare. It's almost certain the vehicle will end up in the hands of engineers. Once they figure out what's wrong with it, they'll do some risk analysis. If they determine that this may recur with other vehicles, they'll probably issue a recall.
06-03-2005, 12:13 PM
#210
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opps.. I asked the mod to unlock this thread so i can follow up on how this buy back plays out.
UPDATE:
just got a call from BBB (June 3).
They said they received a call from acura and that they had made me the offer of a new vehicle.
I told her that thats fine but I won't agree to anything 'till i see it in writing.
She then tells me that acura said that they will replace my vehicle with a comparable one at no charge.
That wording made me a little worried. Does that mean they are going to try and dump a used car on me?
The BBB lady said she will call back acura and get the exact detail and put it in writing for me.
lets hope for the best... I'm missing my old TL with the navi. This current loaner is a non-navi.
~mark
UPDATE:
just got a call from BBB (June 3).
They said they received a call from acura and that they had made me the offer of a new vehicle.
I told her that thats fine but I won't agree to anything 'till i see it in writing.
She then tells me that acura said that they will replace my vehicle with a comparable one at no charge.
That wording made me a little worried. Does that mean they are going to try and dump a used car on me?
The BBB lady said she will call back acura and get the exact detail and put it in writing for me.
lets hope for the best... I'm missing my old TL with the navi. This current loaner is a non-navi.
~mark
06-03-2005, 12:29 PM
#211
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
Originally Posted by markdesign
opps.. I asked the mod to unlock this thread so i can follow up on how this buy back plays out.
UPDATE:
just got a call from BBB (June 3).
They said they received a call from acura and that they had made me the offer of a new vehicle.
I told her that thats fine but I won't agree to anything 'till i see it in writing.
She then tells me that acura said that they will replace my vehicle with a comparable one at no charge.
That wording made me a little worried. Does that mean they are going to try and dump a used car on me?
The BBB lady said she will call back acura and get the exact detail and put it in writing for me.
lets hope for the best... I'm missing my old TL with the navi. This current loaner is a non-navi.
~mark
UPDATE:
just got a call from BBB (June 3).
They said they received a call from acura and that they had made me the offer of a new vehicle.
I told her that thats fine but I won't agree to anything 'till i see it in writing.
She then tells me that acura said that they will replace my vehicle with a comparable one at no charge.
That wording made me a little worried. Does that mean they are going to try and dump a used car on me?
The BBB lady said she will call back acura and get the exact detail and put it in writing for me.
lets hope for the best... I'm missing my old TL with the navi. This current loaner is a non-navi.
~mark
You miss the old (3 week) TL with Navi/Without brakes? That would be the one that almost killed your wife?? After a few false starts by the dealer, you are being treated as you should be. The loaner runs and is almost comparable. They might have shoved you into a Ford Focus or some other BS.
I don't think Acura would try to swap you into a used car but good to check. Keep us posted.
06-03-2005, 07:17 PM
#212
WDP Director of R & D
Thanks for stopping in and posting an update.
-Very wise to question everything. I'm sure a "new" TL is in the works but like you said, don't sign off on anything until it's done.
-Just remember, the BBB is there for the manufacturer too, and more so for them than you in all reality. Be professional but don't for a second think they are always/remotely looking out for "your" best interest..
-One thing the BBB may try is to get you to close your "case" as quickly as possible.. They may say: "Acura has agreed to give you a comparable TL, bla bla bla, you are/can work with them directly now... Is it OK to consider your BBB case closed??" Hell no!
Once again, don't do it until your "finalized" with Acura, IE driving away in your new TL. It's all leverage
Good luck!
-Very wise to question everything. I'm sure a "new" TL is in the works but like you said, don't sign off on anything until it's done.
-Just remember, the BBB is there for the manufacturer too, and more so for them than you in all reality. Be professional but don't for a second think they are always/remotely looking out for "your" best interest..
-One thing the BBB may try is to get you to close your "case" as quickly as possible.. They may say: "Acura has agreed to give you a comparable TL, bla bla bla, you are/can work with them directly now... Is it OK to consider your BBB case closed??" Hell no!
Once again, don't do it until your "finalized" with Acura, IE driving away in your new TL. It's all leverage
Good luck!
06-27-2005, 03:42 PM
#213
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Interesting Update:
I called Thomas acura on the status of my new car and I talked to the mechanic who said some interesting things.
He said that they did fix the brake problem 2 days after they had made me an offer for the new car.
It turned out, according to the Thomas service rep., when Cerritos acura replaced the ABS module, they had "crossed the wires".
The service rep basically said that acura is buying me a new car because of the mechanics error.....
Hopefully they fired his ass by now.
~mark
I called Thomas acura on the status of my new car and I talked to the mechanic who said some interesting things.
He said that they did fix the brake problem 2 days after they had made me an offer for the new car.
It turned out, according to the Thomas service rep., when Cerritos acura replaced the ABS module, they had "crossed the wires".
The service rep basically said that acura is buying me a new car because of the mechanics error.....
Hopefully they fired his ass by now.
~mark
06-27-2005, 04:00 PM
#214
Originally Posted by markdesign
Interesting Update:
I called Thomas acura on the status of my new car and I talked to the mechanic who said some interesting things.
He said that they did fix the brake problem 2 days after they had made me an offer for the new car.
It turned out, according to the Thomas service rep., when Cerritos acura replaced the ABS module, they had "crossed the wires".
The service rep basically said that acura is buying me a new car because of the mechanics error.....
Hopefully they fired his ass by now.
~mark
I called Thomas acura on the status of my new car and I talked to the mechanic who said some interesting things.
He said that they did fix the brake problem 2 days after they had made me an offer for the new car.
It turned out, according to the Thomas service rep., when Cerritos acura replaced the ABS module, they had "crossed the wires".
The service rep basically said that acura is buying me a new car because of the mechanics error.....
Hopefully they fired his ass by now.
~mark
Owned! 
06-27-2005, 04:14 PM
#215
Acura will always take care of you.
Originally Posted by markdesign
Interesting Update:
I called Thomas acura on the status of my new car and I talked to the mechanic who said some interesting things.
He said that they did fix the brake problem 2 days after they had made me an offer for the new car.
It turned out, according to the Thomas service rep., when Cerritos acura replaced the ABS module, they had "crossed the wires".
The service rep basically said that acura is buying me a new car because of the mechanics error.....
Hopefully they fired his ass by now.
~mark
I called Thomas acura on the status of my new car and I talked to the mechanic who said some interesting things.
He said that they did fix the brake problem 2 days after they had made me an offer for the new car.
It turned out, according to the Thomas service rep., when Cerritos acura replaced the ABS module, they had "crossed the wires".
The service rep basically said that acura is buying me a new car because of the mechanics error.....
Hopefully they fired his ass by now.
~mark
06-27-2005, 05:23 PM
#216
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Originally Posted by markdesign
Interesting Update:
I called Thomas acura on the status of my new car and I talked to the mechanic who said some interesting things.
He said that they did fix the brake problem 2 days after they had made me an offer for the new car.
It turned out, according to the Thomas service rep., when Cerritos acura replaced the ABS module, they had "crossed the wires".
The service rep basically said that acura is buying me a new car because of the mechanics error.....
Hopefully they fired his ass by now.
~mark
I called Thomas acura on the status of my new car and I talked to the mechanic who said some interesting things.
He said that they did fix the brake problem 2 days after they had made me an offer for the new car.
It turned out, according to the Thomas service rep., when Cerritos acura replaced the ABS module, they had "crossed the wires".
The service rep basically said that acura is buying me a new car because of the mechanics error.....
Hopefully they fired his ass by now.
~mark
06-28-2005, 12:26 AM
#218
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go to glendale, they have good service people and i always get a loaner...it might not always be a TL, but it's better than waiting a month
Originally Posted by markdesign
Update:
Took some test runs today with my co workers to make sure its not just me.
and sure enough here is the situation.
when I brake hard the rear left wheel locks up and I hear a very large "screech"
I found out because when i circled back to the area i screeched there was only one Loooong tire mark.
I tried it again with a friend following me and he confirms. the Rear left wheel is locking up and smoke is comming out from that wheel, while all other wheels are rotating thus the car basically pivoted on that wheel causing the car to swivel to the left.
My guess is the new ABS module.
Nonetheless.. this almost killed my wife, could have killed my daughter. No way i'm letting them back in this lemon. No matter how well they fix it
I was set to get it serviced at cerritos acura tomorrow, but now i'm going to take it to where i bought it to have them take it back or offer a new one.
I just called the dealer i bought it from and spoke to the sales manager. told him the whole story and all he says is, "oh, we just sell the cars, your have to deal with honda if you want to return the car" and "i'll have to talk to the service manager to set up an appointment to meet with them"
and the service manager wasnt available, so i left my number and am waiting for him to call me back.
oh, and no loaner car for a month so I cant even drop it off for service
what a nightmare this is turning out to be...
It was such a nice car when it worked...
~mark
Took some test runs today with my co workers to make sure its not just me.
and sure enough here is the situation.
when I brake hard the rear left wheel locks up and I hear a very large "screech"
I found out because when i circled back to the area i screeched there was only one Loooong tire mark.
I tried it again with a friend following me and he confirms. the Rear left wheel is locking up and smoke is comming out from that wheel, while all other wheels are rotating thus the car basically pivoted on that wheel causing the car to swivel to the left.
My guess is the new ABS module.
Nonetheless.. this almost killed my wife, could have killed my daughter. No way i'm letting them back in this lemon. No matter how well they fix it
I was set to get it serviced at cerritos acura tomorrow, but now i'm going to take it to where i bought it to have them take it back or offer a new one.
I just called the dealer i bought it from and spoke to the sales manager. told him the whole story and all he says is, "oh, we just sell the cars, your have to deal with honda if you want to return the car" and "i'll have to talk to the service manager to set up an appointment to meet with them"
and the service manager wasnt available, so i left my number and am waiting for him to call me back.
oh, and no loaner car for a month so I cant even drop it off for service
what a nightmare this is turning out to be...
It was such a nice car when it worked...
~mark
06-28-2005, 12:48 AM
#219
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
Originally Posted by markdesign
Interesting Update:
I called Thomas acura on the status of my new car and I talked to the mechanic who said some interesting things.
He said that they did fix the brake problem 2 days after they had made me an offer for the new car.
It turned out, according to the Thomas service rep., when Cerritos acura replaced the ABS module, they had "crossed the wires".
The service rep basically said that acura is buying me a new car because of the mechanics error.....
Hopefully they fired his ass by now.
~mark
I called Thomas acura on the status of my new car and I talked to the mechanic who said some interesting things.
He said that they did fix the brake problem 2 days after they had made me an offer for the new car.
It turned out, according to the Thomas service rep., when Cerritos acura replaced the ABS module, they had "crossed the wires".
The service rep basically said that acura is buying me a new car because of the mechanics error.....
Hopefully they fired his ass by now.
~mark
OK, good........so when does the new car come in? I dont think you gave us an eta.
06-28-2005, 02:10 AM
#220
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Originally Posted by MR1
OK, good........so when does the new car come in? I dont think you gave us an eta.
Thomas acura said the next shipment of that color will be in in 1 1/2 month.
or, they can order one from another dealer but it will have some miles on it from the travel.
I said no thanks, i'll wait for the new one straight from the factory with the factories 3 miles on it.
who knows...
maybe if i wait enough, i can get the 06 model!~mark
06-28-2005, 03:31 AM
#221
Boondocks fanatic.....
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Originally Posted by markdesign
I got a call couple of days ago from acura saying that i can choose what vehicle selection they had at thomas dealership, but they did not have the white/parchment I wanted.
Thomas acura said the next shipment of that color will be in in 1 1/2 month.
or, they can order one from another dealer but it will have some miles on it from the travel.
I said no thanks, i'll wait for the new one straight from the factory with the factories 3 miles on it.
who knows... maybe if i wait enough, i can get the 06 model!
~mark
Thomas acura said the next shipment of that color will be in in 1 1/2 month.
or, they can order one from another dealer but it will have some miles on it from the travel.
I said no thanks, i'll wait for the new one straight from the factory with the factories 3 miles on it.
who knows...
maybe if i wait enough, i can get the 06 model!~mark
That would be hella cool if you get a 2006!
06-28-2005, 12:01 PM
#222
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Originally Posted by markdesign
Interesting Update:
It turned out, according to the Thomas service rep., when Cerritos acura replaced the ABS module, they had "crossed the wires".
~mark
It turned out, according to the Thomas service rep., when Cerritos acura replaced the ABS module, they had "crossed the wires".
~mark
Wow, you think they would have test drive the car with hard braking just to make sure the ABS is installed and working as expected.
Or maybe they didn't secure the wire right and it works for a short time, then it shorted to ground?
06-28-2005, 10:40 PM
#223
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
Originally Posted by markdesign
I got a call couple of days ago from acura saying that i can choose what vehicle selection they had at thomas dealership, but they did not have the white/parchment I wanted.
Thomas acura said the next shipment of that color will be in in 1 1/2 month.
or, they can order one from another dealer but it will have some miles on it from the travel.
I said no thanks, i'll wait for the new one straight from the factory with the factories 3 miles on it.
who knows... maybe if i wait enough, i can get the 06 model!
~mark
Thomas acura said the next shipment of that color will be in in 1 1/2 month.
or, they can order one from another dealer but it will have some miles on it from the travel.
I said no thanks, i'll wait for the new one straight from the factory with the factories 3 miles on it.
who knows...
maybe if i wait enough, i can get the 06 model!~mark
06-29-2005, 12:34 AM
#224
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Originally Posted by MR1
Humm, bet you end up with one of the last 05's. At least you still have the loaner and your new car whatever year is being spared all of these miles.
yeah.. and a lot of money filling the loaner with 87 octane.
Man.. its going to hurt when i have to start putting 92 octane in my car.
~mark
06-29-2005, 02:49 PM
#225
I still think it is a leap of faith for someone to get back in the same model automobile and to think that it is not going to happen again.. Or the odds are good that it will....
06-29-2005, 04:04 PM
#226
Cajun Gumbo Man
There is an old saying I praise: PATIENCE IS GOLDEN !
Always let the system work, as in most cases it will work for YOU ! Folks who rush into things just gives the guilty party time......
I'm sure that mechanic was F I R E D !
Always let the system work, as in most cases it will work for YOU ! Folks who rush into things just gives the guilty party time......
I'm sure that mechanic was F I R E D !
06-29-2005, 04:11 PM
#227
Shift_faster
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Originally Posted by mickey3c
I still think it is a leap of faith for someone to get back in the same model automobile and to think that it is not going to happen again.. Or the odds are good that it will....
People forget that a problem can be an isolated incident without having to be a plague that affects the entire line.
06-29-2005, 04:14 PM
#228
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Re: mechanic being fired
I'm not sure why you would want the mechanic to be fired. I don't know about you guys, but I've made mistakes at my job before and if I had to bet, you have made mistakes at your job as well. We all make mistakes. Hopefully people learn from their mistakes and become better employees. Now if the mechanic has a history of poor performance, then maybe termination would be necessary. I just hate to hear 1 unhappy customer calling for someone to be fired or 1 happy customer recommending that someone get a raise or get promoted based.
06-29-2005, 05:00 PM
#229
Keep Right Except to Pass
Originally Posted by mickey3c
I still think it is a leap of faith for someone to get back in the same model automobile and to think that it is not going to happen again.. Or the odds are good that it will....
10-17-2005, 01:43 AM
#230
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October 16, 2005
Finally picked up the second Acura TL
Long story short,
the people at Acura Corporate are A-holes.
jerked me around the whole time, promising me that I would have gotten the car in 2 weeks, then one month... then 2 months... then at the lastest 3 months... and it obviously went over.
told me the only other option was to go into litigation with the BBB but they threathend me that if i did that, I was sure to loose.
If i had the time and money.. i would have loved to challenge them on that, but i don't so decided to wait it out...
Well, at least the nightmare is over.
and i bout this in car May ??
mark
Finally picked up the second Acura TL
Long story short,
the people at Acura Corporate are A-holes.
jerked me around the whole time, promising me that I would have gotten the car in 2 weeks, then one month... then 2 months... then at the lastest 3 months... and it obviously went over.
told me the only other option was to go into litigation with the BBB but they threathend me that if i did that, I was sure to loose.
If i had the time and money.. i would have loved to challenge them on that, but i don't so decided to wait it out...
Well, at least the nightmare is over.
and i bout this in car May ??
mark
10-17-2005, 01:47 AM
#231
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here is the pic of the loaner they had me driving for 3 months.
took a last pic of it as i drove off on the new TL
at first they tried to dump me on a ford!
had to fight for the mercedes.
~mark
took a last pic of it as i drove off on the new TL
at first they tried to dump me on a ford!
had to fight for the mercedes.
~mark
10-17-2005, 01:49 AM
#232
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So did they just swap out the old car with this car? A direct trade? Or you had to pay a difference?
Did you at least have a loaner paid by acura for those 2-3 months?
I'm glad you finally got it settled.
If I were in your shoes, I wouldnt even want a TL anymore!
Did you at least have a loaner paid by acura for those 2-3 months?
I'm glad you finally got it settled.
If I were in your shoes, I wouldnt even want a TL anymore!
10-17-2005, 01:55 AM
#234
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Originally Posted by gsrthomas
So did they just swap out the old car with this car? A direct trade? Or you had to pay a difference?
Did you at least have a loaner paid by acura for those 2-3 months?
I'm glad you finally got it settled.
If I were in your shoes, I wouldnt even want a TL anymore!
Did you at least have a loaner paid by acura for those 2-3 months?
I'm glad you finally got it settled.
If I were in your shoes, I wouldnt even want a TL anymore!
it was a direct trade. but it involved a lot of paper work and procedure. Acura hired a company called "IPS", stands for impartial services, to be the middle man.
Basically, i had to sign over the old car back to acura. then Acura signed over the new car to thomas acura, whom then sold it back to me with a promise from acura to be fully reimbursed.
the loan was with honda credit, so the paper was less troublesom then it could have been.
yeah, the mercedes was fully paid for by acura.
~mark
10-17-2005, 02:38 AM
#236
Originally Posted by ZQQM
If you want maybe I can get my ex-wife to test drive it for a while, just to make sure its safe ........... j/k
LOOOLLLOLOLol!
No seriously, Glad no one was hurt, sounds like a DUD TL with BAD ABS or VSA
10-17-2005, 07:41 AM
#238
I cannot imagine someone buying the same car after having such a bad experience with the first one. Call it faith, lunacy, etc. I know I would not go back to the water so quickly... I know it might be a freak thing... but just the same...
10-17-2005, 10:31 AM
#240
"Joe Cool"
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Originally Posted by gsrthomas
I personally was going to get the TL but got a Lexus instead. Glad I made the choice.. Never been to the dealer yet and planning on it being that way..
Some of these TL owners see spend more time seeing their service reps then seeing their family.. pretty sad.
Some of these TL owners see spend more time seeing their service reps then seeing their family.. pretty sad.
Lexus = Toyota Acura=Honda Infiniti=Nissan
All are great cars but like all man made products, flaws are unavoidable.
Ask my cousin who bought her Lexus and had it in and out of the shop over and over again about how happy you are...or my boss who just bought a Lexus 430 and is in court right now because they would not repair his car under warranty. It is Brand new.... maybe 3 weeks old.
All cars have problems, that's why there is a lemon law.
I have a 2004TL AT and it has only been to the dealer for oil changes.
The only issue we have with our TL is who is going to drive...Me or my wife.
You can't judge every car by the flaws of one.
BTW... tried to brake at 50+ and it was scary, but didn't have any problems.