markdesign

Today, May 18, after work, i get a frantic call from my wife. She said she lost control of the car on the 91fwy and had spunout of control barely missing several cars before she ended up facing backwards on the freeway.

All cars behind her had stopped, so she turned it around and got off the freeway. I immediately went to her to pick her up and to find out what had happend.

She said that she was traveling around 75mph when the car infront of her braked. So she braked little harder then normal, but didnt slam on the brakes or anything serious. As she was on the fast lane.. she described the car immediately pull to the left crossing to the car pool lane. Lucky no one was there. She then jerks the car to the right to gain control wich caused her car to spin out of control.

I assumed many things, least of which i thought was the cars fault.

long story short, I picked her up, gave her my truck, I took the Acura to find out whats wrong with it. visually it looked fine. so I got it to around 40mph and braked hard on the brakes. Sure enough the brakes lock up and immidiately pulls to the left. I can see why she lost control on the freeway doing this at 75mph.

At first it felt like the brakes might be glazed. but then i tried this several times and I can feel the brakes trying to pump. But i think i'm not hitting the brakes hard enough for the ABS to kick in.. I'm no mechanic, but something definetely feels wrong.

I'm taking this back to the dealer to find out for sure tomorrow and will post the results.

little history about this car that i posted before:

bought new 05/navi on April 30.

When i got it home I noticed the VSA warning light was on and crunching noise in the front right wheel when i made a hard right turn.

Went to service on May 2. They made me pay for a rental the first day becase i didnt make a 2 week reservation for a loaner.

The problem turned out to be a bad ABS module which they had to order to fix.

Got the car back finally on May 7. Wife picked it up, and when she brought it home, i noticed the parchment leather dirty from the mechanic. Permanent creases on the driver seat, a gap in the steering wheel cover, and rattling noises around the vsa button area.

Went back to service on May 10 with an appointment, so actually was able to get a loaner this time. got the car back on May 11, with more dirty smears on the leather then before, even though i complaind about this. but they did fix the rattle and the gap in the steering wheel cover.

Today is may 18, and the car has 800 miles on it.. had the car for 2 weeks. If the mechanic says it was a glazed brake issues.. Or just tells me thats how ABS works and that the problem is that my wife didnt know how to use it correclty, i'm not sure what i'm going to do, but if it does turn out to be a mechanical issues I dont plan on picking it back up.

Its a nice car, but its not worth my familys life.

I would love to hear from the TL community on what my next step should be.. pending what the mechanic tells me tomorrow.

has there been anyone else with a similar problem?



~mark

Teh Jatt

damn

good luck and keep us posted.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

It could be a seized caliper, but calipers shouldn't seize at 800 miles. Then again, anything's possible.

When my friend had a seized caliper in the rear, the car pulled immediately to the left as soon as he applied brakes. Judging by my own experience in his car, doing so at 75 would definitely freak me out and probably lose control.

rets

.

zeezz

i smell a lawsuit

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

We don't even know what the problem is. Also, there is no damage. Sure, she's shaken up and he's pissed off, but beyond that, there's nothing to claim.

When the dealership messed up my brakes, I nearly drove off the highway at like 80 mph. Still, I didn't even think about a lawsuit. Nobody was hurt, dealership fixed the car, and everything was alright.

"I smell a lawsuit"... This is what's wrong with America.

Russdaddy

I can't blame this guy. This was his wife that could have been killed because of the car doing this number of pulling to one side whenever the brakes are applied. I would offer to take whoever is giving him the runaround out on a ride on a backroad so that they can see for themselves. As to tell someone that they don't know how to use the ABS correctly, that's not a line to use with any customer. Instead they shoulda asked him HOW his wife applied the brakes to get input on what happened. I'd keep pressing until they got it right.

da_bien1390

oh man, that's pretty scary!

i'd be pissed if my TL does that to me...if i didn't die first that is!

i am just glad that your wife got out of the situation safely!

Burgman

Sounds like your ABS module is still bad. The vehicle stability system should have kept the car from spinning especialy on a strait highway.

Lokius

keep us updated, this community will support you my friend.

TBone2004

that is interesting - on two occassions while braking quickly my car has pulled hard to the left. I was not going nearly as fast so the effect was minimal and I wrote it off as uneven road surface or something or even my imagination and put it out of my mind.

Could one caliper be firing before the other?

ZQQM

If you want maybe I can get my ex-wife to test drive it for a while, just to make sure its safe ........... j/k

sweatinmyac

when i was a kid, my friends and i were racing on a narrow road (real smart, i know).... i was driving a '96 maxima, at the time was brand new, with abs...

long story short, after my friend cut me off i slammed on the brakes to avoid hitting him which led the car to pull left so hard that i couldn't stear out of it... when all was said and done, i totaled the car after plowing into a telephone pole... cop told me he was sure i'd be dead (thank god for airbags although was wearing my seatbelt)...

so after the initial shock i started to think why it was so hard to control the car when braking like that... i was told that when the abs kicks in, because it brakes the wheels at different intervals, it causes the car to "pull"... sorry for the generic details, but my point is that this happened to me in a totally different car.. i think its a characteristic of abs when the brakes are applied at higher speeds...

i guess by now they still aren't able to perfect this problem, but at least your wife is ok. from my experience it is definitely a scary feeling and not sure the solution to the prob, but just thought i'd share that this may be a persistent abs "problem" per say... abs is supposed to help keep control, but that time i found it to be worse.

gtgrad95

Sorry to hear that! Please keep us informed when you hear something.

JohnDoe2

There is no "wrong" way to use ABS.

The sole purpose of ABS is to NOT have the car skew to the left or right.

I would forward this information to Acura and try another dealer if possible.

DocTL

I'm not trying to blame or insult anyone in this situation, but most likely your doesn't know how to properly operate a vehicle in an emergencey situation. The first thing that you should do with her is to go to a big empty parking lot and practice emergency maneuvers such as slamming on the brakes. She'll get the feel of how the car responds to her inputs, and when if it occurs again she'll know what to expect and how to react. In this case, the car did what it was supposed to and she didn't know how to react in time.

IMHO, everyone who is issued a drivers license should have to take a mandatory defensive driving course. I've taken the Skip Barber racing program two times in the past twenty years, participated in many HPDE's with my NSX, and have gotten personal instruction form seasoned racers, and I still learn something new everytime.

Good luck and don't blame it on the car immediately, unless there truly is someting wrong with the ABS system. Buth then again, how many of us grew up without ABS and were still able to bring a car to a safe stop using threshold braking.

KJSmitty

Did you happen to read/comprehend the part were he said the brakes "locked up and the car pulled hard to the left"?? Her actions very well could have saved lives, including her own.. I doesn't matter whether you have ABS or not, when functioning properly the car should stop in a straight line.... It's blatantly obvious given "Mark's" description something isn't yet right with his brakes/ABS.
Besides that, when someone just describes a situation where his loved ones could have been killed,,, not usually a "prudent" time to point blame on said loved ones until "YOU" know all of the facts...

Not really flaming you, but would say that was poor tact among us "TL friends" here. More than likely, if that comment was made face to face the outcome would have been more than a few harsh comments on a forum...

Good luck Mark - glad your wife is OK!

keep us posted on the findings

chill_dog

Damn! I spun out once for different reasons, but was going almost as fast and totally lost control, so I can empathize with your wife on that one. Thankfully she's ok. I would definitely have the car looked at...drive the tech around to demonstrate the issue so there's no confusion on it. Good luck with it all and keep us posted.

PiPsToRmPaY

Glad to hear that your wife is alright. Hopefully they'll do their job and fix the problem before anyone gets hurt~! Let us know.

Magnutz

Which brakes are they?

SlayerGTR

better get ABS checked then... cuz in my accord, i hit about 120 on the highway and when i press down on brakes i can feel da ABS kick in but the car remains goin straight pretty smooth

Kujo806

If the car pulls hard to the left at any speed when the brakes are applied, something is obviously wrong with the car. I have had to slam on the brakes in my T/A on the highway many times, and it stops fast and in a straight line with the ABS engaged.

astro

I suggest some further driver training for your wife.

can't see how this would be the cars fault....

edit: I see the Doc and I are thinking the same way.

astro

oh btw KJSmitty, Mark was not in the car, there is no way his opinion can be taken as any kind of fact, because it is only a second hand relation of the story. I think your reading skills need some polishing, not anyone else's.

you 3g TL guys are the biggest bunch of Cry Wolfers i've ever seen.

Cesci

Poor taste my friend. His wife and others could easily have been killed. No laughing matter.

Cesci

Would agree except he tried it himself and experienced a similar outcome at 40 mph. Doesn't sound like it was his wife's fault..............and I agree with the others. Drivers shouldn't have to 'learn to use ABS'. You step on the brake pedal, the car is supposed to come to a stop without pulling here or there.

scrb09

Atleast Mark has a second hand relation to the incident (also the fact that he has been driving the car)!!! Your and Docs SMART ASSES have no damn relation to the incident (except for reading on this forum like every one else) even then you have wise comments.

Also Mark is not blaming it on the Car...he does mention that it might be his wifes driving or the car or the combination of both. Also there has been an incident where his ABS module has failed and any SANE person would atleast doubt the car if something like this happens...

chill_dog

Not really since no one was hurt. What could've happened is irrelevant as it didn't happen. Everyone is safe and sound, so now it's time to move on and get the problem solved.

As for what Cesci said, it was quite humorous...and thoughtful, too, because test driving the car in the future, neither Mark nor his wife would be in danger...

ZQQM

No one was killed or even injured. And I believe the joke was more about my ex-wife.

I think you need more fiber in your diet............................

DocTL

Well now, if you want to start calling me names that brings this to a higher level. His wife didn't almost die. She didn't even have a scratch on her. My statement was not a smart ass remark, but yours on the otherhand is. Also, it seems that the brakes work just fine on his car anyway, he was able to bring it to a complete stop. The fact that it pulls one way or the other, or locks the wheels is another story, but they do work. Btw, in my NSX I sometimes turn the ABS off when I go to the track, especially when I used to run with Hoosiers. Why? Because I can stop it in a shorter distance than with the ABS on. If you don't believe me, take a Skip Barber course and you'll see for yourself.

-Cheers

markdesign

Update:

I called the dealer this morning (May 19)

They told me the next available loaner is tomorrow. I was upset and told him that my wife spun out on the freeway becase of possible defect on the car and that she barely avoided serious injury and the fact that the car is only 2 weeks old etc etc...

By some mericle he was able to locate a loaner for me and asked me to come in for a check up on the vehicle.

When I got there, I told the service representative that if this turns out to be mechanical problem and not a driver error, I would not be able to drive this car becase i have a 2 year old daughter.

His reply was interesting..

basically tried to blame it on my wife. Said that most likely she braked too hard. and said that even the most sophisticated cars in the world still wobber if you brake too hard. and the spin out was most likely caused by her corrective steer. (which i realize is a possiblity.) If there is another mechanical problem and I try to have the dealer buy back the car, I would have to go back to the orignal dealer i purchased from and the chances of them doing so is slim to none.

Then he let me know that the lemon law requires 4 major defects that makes the car totally undrivable... etc etc.. And this is not the situation here.

I know, total horse shit...

On top of that, i forgot to bring my proof of insurance, so i couldnt get the loaner, so I will be dropping it back off tomorrow.

For now i will be driving the acura and my wife has the old but reliable 97' ford truck

will post again tomorrow after I drop it off and the dealer, and they call back with an analysis.

Does anyone succesfully returned a car after purchase? if so..what was your experiecne like?



~mark

Flippie

Lets all be friends and get along.

DocTL

Actually, you do need to learn how to use the ABS properly. Every car reacts differently to the amount of pedal pressure, and the feeling of it is also very different between manufacturers. The first thing I do when I test drive a car is stomp on the brakes as hard as I can to see how it affects the handling and weight distribution. What happened in the topic of discussion here would have happened no matter what car was being driven. The fact remains that the laws of physics cannot be broken, no matter how much driver assist the car is able to apply. If you lift off the brakes while the wheels are turned, the car will change directions very quickly. It makes no difference if the car is FWD, RWD, or AWD.

Your logic is eactly the reason why inexperienced drivers get killed, or kill other people on the streets. Experience and knowledge of how to use a machine is vital. Proof can be seen that cars kill more people each year than guns.

Dr.Murdock

I doubt this is a problem common to al lcars with abs, it should nto do this. I was doing 130 on the highway a while ago and hit the brakes to slow down to 50mph because of an incoming radar signal in the front of me. the car had absolutly no problem slowing down, it slowed down quick and smooth.

mpken

Isn't 75mph over the speed limit? What were the road conditions like? weather? Oil on the road? There are more factors than just driver and car. I'm glad your wife is safe and hopefully things work out.

spidey07

I agree with most folks.

If the car does indeed pull hard to the left under light/moderate/strong braking then something is seriously wrong and the car shouldn't be driven.

the ability to steer and stop are pretty important IMHO.

do a couple threshold braking stops and see what happens - should stay absolutely straight.

abirvalg

check on edmunds i acura forums
i believe it's not 4 defects
it's 4 failing documented attempts to fix the same one
you're on round number 2
besides it doesn't have to make the car unusable
it could be a purely cosmetic defect such as peeling paint or falling headliner
in your case it's plain and simple UNSAFE to drive
and that may make for a much stronger argument

but that's just the impression i got from reading all the lemon posts
you'll have to speak to a pro about it

i'm sorry you had such a scary moment and such a bad experience with the car
most of us here are in love with their rides and so am i
strangely enough i'm 100% positive it's not "a driver's error"
sounds like a bad case of factory defect
and the dealership which messed it up twice already would be the last place i'd be taking to
unless you are merely collecting the required evidence for a lemon case

good luck whatever you do

rets

Demo that car with Acura tech aboard.


I really wonder if the "good" ABS would result in this "pull right" stuff. Since Mark found out that car would act the same when braking at 40 MPH, sure enough there is a problem in the brake, ABS, or whatever modules control the braking systems. I mean there are ovbious problems now since that accident.


Sorry to hear this bad news, this incident probably startled her a lot although she and her car were totally no scratch at all. It's terrible.


As long as it's the car fault, you should sell it or ask Acura to buy back. Even though your dealer finds nothing wrong, you probably should sell that car, too, because members of your families may not like to drive that car anymore. IMO.


I'd think that braking system didn't act like that when his wife was driving. All of sudden the brake went wrong and whoever drives that car in any speed may experience the similar "pull right" issues. But I bet this is the accident, and something was wrong and happend at that moment, otherwise, she, or anyone, would never drive it to 75MPH and made herself terrified.


I believe his wife probably knows well how to drive. Let's blame the brake/ABS for now, and try to find out why.





I occassionally did a few emergency stops above 100 MPH, and my car went straight well. But I know, if I move the steering wheel a little more, my car would spin like crazy.


Btw, I agree those saying above we should properly learn how to drive ABS vehicles and know how ABS works.

astro

low tire pressure in a front tire is enough to make the car veer when applying the brakes in an emergency situation. Tire pressure is an owner responsibility, not the cars, or the dealerships.

Again, i must reiterate, the one thing that should come from this, is some advanced driver training for you wife.
this will have far more potential to keep her and your child from any harm, than returning your Acura to the dealership.

astro

omg Rets!