TBone2004

Sounds more like you are the one making the excuses - by blaming the car. If you know how to drive in snow then you can get any car through any storm with minimal slipping. That is why you sometimes will see many AWD or SUV's crashed off to the side of the road....people assuming that the car/truck should drive itself...not so.
I actually counted 4 SUV's while driving through the storm Saturday night.
9 times out of 10 is is the driver - not the car...or the driver not knowing his car. Each car behaves differently in snow and you have to adjust your driving to match the car. Sorry you hated it so much. Buy a snowmobile or go practice in an empty snow covered parking lot and learn how to act and react in snow. This car is great and I can vouch for the '02 TL as well - I was very impressed.

tommyy2

"If you know how to drive in snow then you can get any car through any storm with minimal slipping."

You gotta be smoking some really good shit, can you tell me your dealers name so I can get some?

TBone2004

Truth. Learn how to drive. Did not say I never slip in any car, but if you know what you are doing - it is easy and you can make it through the worst of storms.

tommyy2

Truth THIS WHAT YOU SAID:

"If you know how to drive in snow then you can get any car through any storm with minimal slipping."

I gotta 98 Infiniti Q45 (with limited slip, and traction control) with semi wornout 4 season radials (still legal amount of thread). This car cannot start moving up hill in any amount of snow. You stop for a lite you stuck. Betcha a bunch you couldn't even handle this one in heavy snow.

TBone2004, the statement of yours that I quoted (any car any storm) is STUPID COCEITED BULLSHIT!

TBone2004

Learn how to drive. Better yet, stay off the road so the rest of us can.

tommyy2

That must really be something good you're smoking to take you that far from reality.

"If you know how to drive in snow then you can get any car through any storm with minimal slipping."

ANY CAR ANY TIRES ANY STORM - YOU MUST BE GOD or something

GROW UP KID

havokgroup

I think before blaming the car itself....you should have the proper tires for the conditions.

EnJ

Exactly, I have an 04 TL with 5000 miles on Michelin Pilot Sport A/S. Since I slip and slide constantly while driving slow and braking, and sit there and spin my tires at any stop it must mean I don't know how to drive my car in the snow, and I'm speaking to a bunch of professional drivers. There's no point in arguing about this anymore. I've realized some of the people on this forum are hugging their cars as I type this.

TBone2004

Ahhh...so sad...people are always looking to blame anything but themselves...we see it here with cars and snow, slip in the snow - hmmm..must be a crappy car....could never be the DRIVER.

If a person gets bad gas mileage - hmmm...must be a crappy car - it could never be the DRIVER who floors it at every green light

If a person feels they have an unruly child - .....hmmm must just be a bad kid "kid's will be kid's" ...could never be the PARENT.

If a person is overweight....hmmm..lets sue the food companies for putting too much fat in their food...hmmm..could never be the person who has no self control and can't stop eating the twinkies

If a person gets cancer from smoking...hmmmm let's blame the tobacco company...it could never be the person who knowingly lit up

If a person is drunk and slams into a family on the sidewalk - hmmm..lets sue the bar and the beer manufacturing plant ...it could never be the PERSON's fault who got drunk - no, can't be their fault.

If a person shoots themself in the foot cleaning their gun...hmmm lets sue the gun manufacturer for not putting a safety on the gun...it could never be the OWNER who was too stupid not to unload the gun.

It's always someone else's or something elses fault -


Get real - stop wasting server space on this thread. My point was don't blame the car 100%. Too many people do not know what to do in a snow storm, or even on a wet road. FACT. I am not saying my cars don't slip and slide - you need to know how to handle it when it does and bring her straight again.

narnia

I drove my TL in snow for the first time yesterday. I have the reformulated EL42s.

I drove on plowed streets that were slushy and icy, and in a parking lot that had been plowed at some point during the storm but was covered with several inches of packed snow.

The only problem I had was that as I drove out of my garage I collected a ton of snow under the car going out into the street. My brakes must have been packed with snow because there was a crunching sound when I applied them. The snow eventually fell off from under the car and the car handled very well. I had no problem at all driving on the packed snow.

I got stuck a bit when I returned and tried to enter my garage because there was still wet snow piled up at the entrance. Instead of just rocking back and forth to free the car, I turned the steering wheel from side to side as I tried to move to clear the snow with the wheels, and I was able to move.

Besides a shovel, I keep a 5-lb. bag of clay cat litter in my trunk (Hartz Mountain, Tidy Cat, etc. are all good brands - don't buy the clumping kind!). If you get stuck on ice, you can sprinkle some litter on it for traction, and it's a lot friendlier environmentally than rock salt.

rets

tommyy2 and EnJ, I think we need to meet to each other and go to see TBone. This is the only way to know if you guys' cars have issues. ...

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Wow, I'm surprised to read this. First off... most cars suck in the snow with their stock all season tires. If you live in NY (which I do as well), then you should be prepared for the snow.... especially a storm like this weekend's.

I got an old set of Mille Miglia rims (17") and put the Blizzak's on and my car handles like a TANK in the snow. Once in a while the traction control light will flash when accelerating... but for the most part it does not slip at all. Sometimes in empty lots I'll try to make it slide out... and it doesn't. Best part is the whole setup cost me about $550, and this is the third season I've used them... with at least 2 more seasons left on the tread. It also extends the life of my summer tires since they're only one for 7-8 months a year.

If you're not happy with the car in the snow... get dedicated snow tires.

rets

I think that's the sign of "working" ABS.

Btw, I think those litter stuff is the good idea.

rets

Basically, I don't think this is wrong... Snow tyre is the key factor in this case, then the drivers' skills and abilities would be another main factor, too. However, without testing you guys' cars by ourselves or the impartial 3rd-party, it's hard to know if that car is really that bad... Meet?? This is the only way to stop this flamewar...

I don't think my car has the issue, you could try mine, too...

tommyy2

Real simple

I drive my 03 CLS MT original tires ~ 20K on the car and tires never had a problem in the snow. I drive my 98 Q45 it don't go in the snow for shit. Same driver different cars.


Doe's a the driver affect the way a car handles in ths snow - ABSOLUTELY, a jerk can put any car in a ditch, the better the driver the less he needs to work with, but anycar no way.

Ever try driving through deep snow in a car that has semi worn summer performance tires and no limited slip; no matter how good you are you ain't gonna make it.

Perhaps what Tbone meant to emphasize was the need for driver's ability which is true, but when he says any car is good enough if only the driver knows how to drive in snow, that is absolutely BS.

tommyy2

FLAMEOUT

TBone I apologise if I hurt your feelings, I tend to sound off like an asshole sometimes; but I hope you can realise your statement was a lefthanded insult to everyone that posted about problems they had driving in the snow.

ps usually traction in first winter on all seasons is way better than the following ones.

TBone2004

White Flag - White Flag

No feelings hurt here - I did not mean for this to continue for this long...really.
If it was taken as an insult, it should still be taken as an insult to those people that said this car sucks. They can say their car sucks etc., but not every TL out there - cause as I said - I have no problems with it in the snow. And it sounds like not everyone had problems either.
Different cars, different locations - different experiences. Different driving styles mixed with different setup on the car mixed with different road conditions....etc.

WAR OVER. Peace.

tommyy2

PEACE

Flippie

What kind of Michelins do you guys have ?

mporter410

Putting salt bags in the trunk of a front wheel drive car did exactly nothing to improve your traction in the snow.

leeherman

My FWD '99 Toyota Solara with new Toyo Proxes TPT 4s is a nightmare in snow. Meanwhile, my RWD '87 Dodge Diplomat with BF Goodrich Radial T/As muddles through without trouble. I really expected the Toyota to handle the snow better, but I attribute its poor snow performance to the tires. The Dippy has more "road hugging" weight, and the tires are probably better for snow.

I don't intend to drive the TL in the snow for many years. I've only driven it once in the rain, and it was fine on the reformulated EL-42s.

Regards,

missmyprelude

Living all my life in the Boston area, I have driven in many snowstorms (close to 20 years worth). I have also driven many different types of cars/trucks with different types of drivetrains and tires. I consider myself a fairly skilled driver too - I have participated in autocrosses, taken some driver training (Skip Barber), done some track days, etc.

Based on my experience, I will tell you with certainty that the TL with the EL-42s ranks below average for me in winter driving (snow/ice). I will also guarantee that the TL would be a completely different beast with a different set of tires and would move toward the top of my rankings with such.

Now, for those of you that say the TL is good in the snow, I won't disagree. If you've never driven a car with proper winter tires and you are comparing the TL to other cars with all-seasons, then it probably isn't all that bad. I haven't had any serious problems with the TL. However, I know that the traction is just not there. It doesn't stop, go, or turn as well as other cars I've driven in the snow.

In particular, the other car that I currently drive often is a RWD Lexus IS-300 with dedicated winter tires (Blizzaks). This car is far superior in winter driving to the TL. And no, I don't use any extra weight in the rear - that just upsets the vehicle dynamics and is unnecessary for anything other than pickups and such. More weight means more stopping distance which is one of the more important factors in winter driving.

parabolica

_________________________

Hi, I have the Pilot Sport A/Ss on my TL and we have had very serious conditions here in TO this past weekend. Temps have been -31 and very icy. I've seen several cars spin. Naturally I was eager to see what the Pilots could do. After two days, I feel they handled the treacherous conditions as well as could be for such wide tires. The Pilots are never going to be replacements for true snow tires, but I found by driving carefully, I was able to avoid spinning, though it should be noted that the VSA was working overtime in some patches. I felt safe on the Pilots braking had to be done well ahead of time. Have never driven on Falken 512s, so I leave someone else to comment on those. Hope this helps.

Parabolica

EnJ

missmyprelude Your profile says you're only 21. I don't know any 21 year olds that drive a 3G TL, an IS-300, as well as many other cars/trucks with different drivetrains and wheels in snow for close to 20 years.

mickey3c

Regardless of her age. I live in the boston area as well and owned a few acuras.. I am old enough to be her dad, but what she says is true. The TL is probably worse then many other models with all seasons. The reason is the profile of the tires, etc...

I have driven rear wheel drive cars with snow tires that are much better than the TL. There is this misconception that rear wheel drive sucks for now. For those people driving more than 25 years, they can recall that there never used to be front drive.

Now put a set of blizzaks on the TL and drive it and see how it handles. I used to cringe about driving home in the snow with new all seasons on the car. I was not sure I could make it home. Once the blizzaks were on it was a much different story. As I said in the past, the only problem is when it is feb and the roads are clear, do not expect to be lauching your car sailing through corners at higher speeds. Those tires do not offer the same handling charactistics of the 45 series potenzas that were on the car.

missmyprelude

lol. Yeah, that's because of the bogus date that I put in for my birthday when I signed up. I didn't realize it was going to be published like that, and just haven't gotten around to updating my profile.

Actually, I'm not a "she" either, like someone addressed me. The "miss" in "missmyprelude" is referring to the fact that I am longing for the car (a Prelude) that I had to give up for my second child.

04TLMan

I agree, I do not think you want to put weight in the back of the TL. It is a heavy car already. I suspect that is why the rear end was not stable.

I LOVE the VSA in the snow. I am able to go into the turn, nail the gas and it just keeps the wheels from spinning and takes the turn without incendent. Of course I have Mich Alpin Pilots that are 10x better than the OEM stones.

tommyy2

"The TL is probably worse then many other models with all seasons. The reason is the profile of the tires, etc..."

AMEN

You want a car with good performance on dry roads, you give it BIG WIDE TIRES. You want a real big footprint.

You want good traction on snow you get skinny little tires. You want a real small footprint for higher lbs/sq in when driving on snow.

TL is designed to perform much better on dry roads than your average car (bigger footprint among other things), so it would make sense that with stock tires it would perform worse on snow than your average fwd car.


I don't think this a defect, I think this is a choice that was made for the overall performance we want (which is why you bought the car in the first place).

kbey

Today I went out for my first experience driving in the snow. It didn't happen. After 45 minutes of trying to get out of my parking space I gave up. With all the shoveling I did the tires just spun. I live in New York City and never had a problem with any of my pass front wheel drive cars. I don't plan to buy snow tire because this is the first and hopefully the last snow storm of the year. So I don't think its worth buying and changing tires for two day off snow. When I bought the car the salesmen said "oh, snow, you'll be fine". I plan to go back outside and try again although its still snowing. I hoping the I didn't make a mistake by not getting the IS 250 AWD or the over priced RL :-).

georgy_d28

Are you guys kidding me? This is the best car ive ever driven in the snow...when i first got this car in 01 we had a 22' record snow and i didnt get stuck once!!! i slid a little when climbling my old houses steep drive

kbey

Maybe the 01s are better in the snow, but not this generation. I went back out side and after 20 more minutes I gave up. I might try again or wait until the snow melts.

Riu

I have driven my car in the snow since 2004 when i got the car. EL42's were decent but now i have the Pirelli PZero's and it is a lot better.

I have slid small amounts but have never spun in any way. I have gottenit up to 30 mph traveling and had no problems what so ever.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Oh, you cry babies. Try driving in 6 inches of snow on summer tires.

Tecciztecatl

kbey started another snow TL sucks thread and I shall respond the same to this one as I did to the original

"You gotta have snow tires if you wanna drive in the snow. I take off my 18" and put the 17" on for winter with the Dunlop M3 SNOW TIRES! I think that the TL is actually pretty good in the snow if you have the proper tires and know how to drive. All seasons are NOT designed for the snow ...

I motor down the highway with the Dunlops and pass the fools with the worn out all-season tires ... as they spin and slide later."

Riu I use the PZeros M+S as my summer tires, as they will also handle small amounts of snow, but will not compare to the designed snow tires like the M3s ... 30MPH is not really highway speed ...

Riu

in the amount of snow i was driving in it was the fastest possible

kbey

Has anyone ever used tire chains ?

bf17738

dont know how u drive but i am on long island with 12" of unplowed snow and the TL is unstopable... and that is with the shitty EL42s i was driving home last night from a friend's house at about 45 on the highway and was driving around all day today and didnt have one problem.

try putting taking out the sand and putting ur car in manu-matic and selecting 2nd gear to start. drive with both hands and try to relax!