CB7Nub

Alright first off let me say I know there are many various comparison threads on various forums with answers to my question; I am looking for personal experience with 3G TL's specifically a Type-S in spirited driving and track use. I also know that any major brand synthetic oil (Mobil 1, Castrol, etc) is usually fine as long as you stick to you regular change intervals.

I am looking at the three "performance" oils Motul, Amsoil, and Royal Purple
More so exactly.

1) Amsoil SAE 5W-20 Signature Series
2) Motul has no 5W-20 options, is it safe to run 0W-20 permanently (especially in cold weather)? (Otherwise I was thinking Motul 300V 0W-20)
3) Royal Purple 5W-20 or HPS 5W-20

What would you choose or say in relation to the above 3?

If there is any other brands that are comparable, let me know.
But from what I have seen Motul and Amsoil is more of a favorite at a 50/50 rate while Royal Purple is more popular in domestic vehicles.

bp_spets

I would stay away from Royal Purple.

I haven't heard too many use Motul.

Most prefer Amsoil. I run Amsoil in mine. OW-20 is fine.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Have you tried searching AcuraZine?

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/mobil-1-royal-purple-770395/
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/royal-purple-motor-oil-hot-damn-825316/
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/amsoil-engine-oil-857568/
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/best-oil-07-tl-type-s-772136/
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/best-oil-use-2007-tl-s-786278/
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/best-synthetic-oil-use-746439/

There's probably a hundred more threads....

oraclem20

Still a noob by acurazine standings so I will still comment despite many many threads. To sum it up, mobil 1 is a good bet. motul I have not found any records on(didn't even click the links) most euro blends are mobil1 level. Royal Purple HPS or XPR can do near or as well as top of the line Redline or Amsoil oils. Baseline for oils if you want top of the line(as far as I know 2nd hand) Redline Race Oil, Amsoil Signature series, and Royal Purple HPS or [better] XPS are the top of the line right above Mobil 1 and Penzoil Ultra.


Honestly any of these 5 in the appropriate weight for engine and conditions and your engine will let you have the most beneficial engine per your oil change, high OCI, and less pressure on your filters.


For filters, I recommend royal purple and bosch premium. There is one other with near as good gram per percentage per flow amount that I can not remember. This part you may want to research depending whether you're looking towards 7500-10k mi. OCi or 3000-5k OCI.

1KLRTOY

Redline, the best choice.

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

Royal purple oil and filter.
I read a research lab report and RP did really well while mobil 1 actually did really bad. May have to try amsoil

bp_spets

Mobil 1 burns off quickly in the S2000 engines so I'd stay away from Mobil 1.

If you want to go with an OEM filter, use the OEM S2000 filter. It has a much better drain back valve and will let your car get up to pressure quicker. It also has more filtration area.

But with oil, everyone has their own opinion.

AccordFlex

iTrader: (1)

I wouldnt use a new OEM Honda filter any more, they are nothing more than blue FRAM filters now which are garbage. The old S2k filters are badass.

nfnsquared

Got a link?

Source?

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

Yea it's an article I saved to a PDF but it's at my apartment and I won't be there for a few days. I'll post it when I get back. It's interesting

I hate cars

Wow. Just wow.

I hate cars

I'm sure it's the wear ball test. That is a test for grease. Amsoil is famous for using it and I blame them for making it popular. It has zero bearing on how an oil will perform in an engine. Water and bleach outperform oil in that test but I'm not running bleach in my engine.

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

Haha yea I was waiting for your input and it was similar to a wear test. I'm open to whatever and would just like your thoughts on why you believe rp is bad. Not trying to argue just want your thoughts because I've heard you say it's bad but want more details

Canadian3GTL

iTrader: (1)

I've ran Mobil 1 synthetic 5w20 in mine for the last 20,000 miles, 106k to 126k, and with very spirited driving, I have not had any oil burning issues.

vietxquangstah

iTrader: (7)

Been using Mobil 1 5w-20 Extended Performance with a Mobil 1 EP filter from 30k - 80k now with no oil burning problems. I usually change the oil about 6-7k miles with the most being 10k miles.

hieroglyphikz

I switched from Castrol to royal purple with k&n oil filter... no problems so far

oraclem20

I will say rp filters had a neartruck/extended oci capacity for gunk at a shigh filtration rate. As for the oil, I won't touch it unless its hps or xpr. Redline will be top pick, but after they sent me 8 gallons of fluid and 3 burst and cost me a bit of garage equipment... not happy with their garbage bag packing method. Call in the morning. Will post pics and response. Two gallons soaking all my supply and battery chargers... runs well though. Actually makes my gears hold on longer.(type f fluid)

I hate cars

Redline:
Highest HTHSv for a given kinematic viscosity.

Very low NOACK value.

Ester Base oil does not leave deposits even in the hottest parts of the engine such as the piston ring lands. It will survive much higher temperatures without oxidizing and shearing.

Ester Base oil has a natural cleaning ability so less detergents are needed (this is a good thing).

Ester Base oil is naturally polar. It clings to itself and to metal parts.

No viscosity index improvers (VII) because the base oil naturally meets the multi-grade requirements without bandaids like VIIs. The 0w-40 is the only exception.

High ZDDP additive package, high enough that it doesn't meet SM standards. ZDDP is a very effective anti wear additive that helps parts that rub like old school non roller valvetrains but also pistons, rings, and cylinder wear.

High moly content. Most oils have little to no moly. There are different types and Redline uses the good soluable moly that's not going to fall out of suspension and clog up the oil filter or collect on the engine and oil pan.

Redline 5w-30 is my year round oil and 0w-40 or 0w-20 for really cold places although the 5w-30 is good to 0F. I've had my car in some seriously cold areas and I used 0w-20 because on one occasion my drive was a little over a mile. If I were starting it up in a really cold area but commuting 50 miles to work it would get the 0w-40.

Royal Purple makes great oil filters but their oil should not be on this list. I've seen and done too many teardowns after an engine was run on RP and every one had excessive wear. I would run any off the self oil over RP.

Those that say they use it and there's no problems, what do you think is going to happen, the engine is going to blow up? You're not going to notice a difference between brands just from driving the car and the car is not going to stop running or run any different but some oils work better than others at keeping the engine clean and keeping wear to a minimum.

Between the other two, I would run Motul 5w-30 and then Amsoil ACD 30wt which I ran for about 70,000 miles. Their signature series is great for extended drain intervals but there might be better Amsoil oils for the dollar if wear is you main concern.

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

i'll have to check out Redline and look up some more info but there is some good info here. where do you usually buy it from? i have to do an oil change in a few weeks and this might be a good chance to switch it up. do you think the 20 grade is too low of a viscosity?

I hate cars

I haven't found any place that sells it significantly cheaper than others so I order from Jegs because they have fast shipping and they're reliable.

20wt will work obviously. There are plenty of high mileage TLs using it. I like Redline 5w-20 because it's right on the edge of a 20wt, almost a 30wt.

I use a 30wt because I live in Bakersfield and the car sees Vegas and Phoenix once in a while. Temps rarely get below freezing and it's seen a lot of 100+ degree days and extended freeway operation on those hot days. My garage rarely gets below 50F in the winter and if compared to a 20wt, my 30wt oil is as thin as a 20wt at 40F at startup.

With my current drive though, I would be better off with a 0w-20. I drive 1.5 miles to work and 1.5 miles back. In this case, the oil probably never gets thinner than a 60wt at operating temp. I keep the 30wt though because startup flow is pretty much instant and I want to keep the higher HTHSv because its directly related to wear reduction. Redline 5w-30 uses no VIIs so it's technically a straight 30wt and straight weight oils are very robust.

In your climate you could use anything from a 5w-20 to a 0w-40. If you do mostly short trips I would go on the thinner side. If you do a lot of long trips, lots of freeway, or racing I would go on the high side. There's a huge range of viscosities that would work just fine. Just remember that when they started recommending the 20wt in the J series, nothing changed. Not the oil pump, not the clearances, nothing. The 20wt recommendation is not to give the customer the least wear and the longest lasting engine, it's to appease the government. So while a 20wt is appropriate for cold areas and short trips, a 30 and even a 40wt is just as appropriate in warmer areas and commuting.

Another really great oil that would work in your climate is Mobil One 0w-40. This is factory fill in some of the highest hp, most demanding cars made. It's one of Mobil's only oils that are truly "fully synthetic". This oil has a good HTHSv, it cleans really well, and it resists oxidation very well. Though it doens't use a lot of ZDDP, it has a good additive package as well. There are times I think about switching to this oil so I can go down to Walmart and pay half price for an oil that nearly as good. If I were changing the oil 2-3 times a year I might have switched alraedy but now at just once a year, what's $50 on oil.

The truth is that your engine will last longer than the rest of the car on just about any oil. I make recommendations on what would give the lowest wear in most conditions because I'm sure I'm not the only one that wants the "best" even if it will never pay off in the end.

One of the most important things I look at is the high temperature, high shear or high stress viscosity (HTHSv). In my opinion this is more important than the traditional weight system. This gives a picture of how an oil will perform in an engine under stress. If you have a 0w-30 with a cheap base oil that's loaded with VIIs to thicken it to a 30wt at 100c, when it gets put under load such as in a journal bearing or in the valvetrain, it's going to temporarily shear down to whatever the actual base oil viscosity is. HTHS is a measure of it's ability to retain it's viscosity even when very hot and under heavy load. The higher the number the better. For a 0w-30 it might be a 5w or 10w and the HTHS number will reflect that. So it's thinning out when you need it the most. This is one trick for getting more power and mpg and Royal Purple is notorious for sheering down under stress. Unfortunately HTHS is directly related to wear so those that run a low HTHS oil will have more wear period, just to gain up to 1-2hp at best and an immeasurable mileage increase.

A heavier weight oil will usually have a higher HTHS. A straight weight oil will usually have the higest HTHS for a given weight. Redline 5w-30 has a 3.7 HTHSv. That's deep into 40wt territory for most manufactureres. Same with their 20wt oil, it has a HTHS as high as many good 30wt oils.

There was a study done on the effect of HTHS on rod and main bearing wear. Two Buick 3.8L engines were run, one with an HTHS of 2.4 and another on something higher, I believe in the high 3s. Before the engines were assembled, the bearings were weighed and the weights were recorded. After the engines were run on the dyno, they were torn apart, cleaned, and the bearings re-weighed. I'll have to look up the article to get the exact HTHS numbers and the exact wear numbers but I believe that one with the higher HTHS had 1/5 the wear of the low HTHS engine.

So there is some truth to thicker oils offering better protection as long as you don't go too far and use an oil that's too thick for the application or for the climate and conditions.

There's a myth that most wear occurs on startup and that's just not true. Most wear occurs during the warmup process. Oil flow is near instant. Parts that are not pressure lubed are bathed in oil. Take a look at the cam lobes. Each one has a little pool of oil it splashes around in and that oil is available from the second the engine is started. The crankshaft journals "float" in the main and rod bearings. It's not the pressure from the pump that floats the crank, it's the crank spinning that causes a hydrodynamic wedge to form. As soon as you turn the key and the crank spins it begins to separate from the bearing and float. This is from the leftover oil from shutdown. Oil pressure arrives from the pump a split second later to supply fresh oil to the bearing as oil is squeezed out of the sides and flung onto the cylinders.

Thinner oil does not necessarily produce less wear during startup or warmup as long as you don't go to the extremes like running a 50wt in a cold climate. There can be other arguements for a thinner oil for startup but reduced wear is not one of them.

I apologize in advance, I'm typing this crap as fast as I can because I'm at work.

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

awesome info thanks a lot man, some of the stuff i was reading was confirmed by your post and i think i'll switch to redline, it just makes sense. i had a hard time finding it but i'll go through jegs like you do. i'll have to look more into which weight i should go with even though i'm sure it's not a very big difference between the 5w vs 10w.

thanks again, i was looking forward to you coming in here haha

I hate cars

Thanks. I just want to stress that you could do down to Walmart and pick up one of the $20 5qt jugs of Mobil One and you're going to be just fine. Redline is overkill but if you run it hard all the time or you want to go half a million miles or you just want the lowest wear and a very clean engine, it's probably worth it.

Since you have very mild winters, there won't be a big difference in a 5w and a 10w. If you lived in a colder area, the difference would be pretty big. The one oil Redline needs to delete is the 10w-30. Both the 10w-30 and the 5w-30 are straight 30wt and they're both very good oils, the 5w-30 just has a better base oil. The price is the same, there's literally no reason to have the 10w-30. I think it's there for people who are stuck in their ways and only want a 10w-30 like my father. I just wanted to make sure you don't get the 10w-30.

nfnsquared

Are you referring Molakule's post on BITOG? I've never seen the real report, just his post.

bp_spets

Just because they are now made in the USA by Filtech instead of in Japan doesn't mean the quality is reduced. They are still built to Honda specs with better quality parts than a filter for the Fram side of the company.

I changed out my OEM Acura TL filter for an OEM Filtech S2000 filter.. the Oil light goes off much quicker.

I hate cars

It might have been him that posted it but there was a link in the post to the actual results with bearing weights before and after. Either that or I bought the SAE paper. It was too many years ago to remember for sure.

4drviper

Just so you didn't forget,, Motul 300V is not street oil.. it's disposable(?) race oil...