wizlb

undefinedundefinedundefined HAS ANYONE FOUND A WAY TO ADD MORE HORSEPOWER TO THE TL YET.

Teh Jatt

yes... one sticker = 5hp

so put'em on all over ur car


thank you come again






just joking with u....

put intake, comptech exhaust and wait for supercharger

Ron A

My curiosity has overwhelmed me and I just have to ask this. What does "undefinedundefinedundefined" mean?

Is it pertinent to the question or answer?

Crazy88

wtf

geminis2

I know how to get more Horse Power The new Acura RL

Teh Jatt

I know too...


























M5.... I can go on....

datplayaz

buy a intake, and about the lots of stickers.

terse

engine swap

wavshrdr

Unfortunately it brings with it a lot more weight to lug around. I'd definitely be interested the supercharger.

Aegir

The fun is finding ways to use all the 270hp you already have!

wavshrdr

Problem is it's either less HP or torque than every other car or truck I have.

That is why I want more.

fast-tl

Uhh, nope. That adds NO power to the TL. His question was how to add power to the TL.

SouthernBoy

To wavshrdr;

I'm with you on that, although at present, it is the most powerful vehicle in my stable. But I would love more.. especially more torque. I would love for Acura to increase the displacement to, say, 220 cubic inches and keep comparable tuning with the engine and ECU and peripherals. That should result in somewhere around 305 HP and 280 lb/ft of torque.

Now wouldn't that be just about ideal for this car?

wavshrdr

To Southernboy- I'd definitely like to see the torque up. I don't get a chance to run top end much around here anymore but I'll take a little bit more. I know it's getting close to the limites of the chassis to manage it in a "polite" way.

I'd like to see a bigger V6 like you but add AWD as an option. I can't really see the expense and typically weight of going to a V8 in this size chassis. Beef up the tranny while they are at it. Even a really light pressure turbo could be cool. It wouldn't add much stress and since it could be about 4-5 psi boost it would spool almost instantly. I drove a Saab a while ago with that setup and you couldn't tell it was a turbo. Good grunt at low rpm and good mileage too.

I think I'd be shooting for 300/300 with a slightly bigger motor. I'd probably be happy there...ok at least for a little while. I have found that once I get to around the HP with the weight of the TL it is fun to drive on a daily basis.

A-TLvic882

Traid your TL, if you need more HP.

Repecat

[QUOTE=

I'd like to see a bigger V6 like you but add AWD as an option. I can't really see the expense and typically weight of going to a V8 in this size chassis. Beef up the tranny while they are at it. Even a really light pressure turbo could be cool. It wouldn't add much stress and since it could be about 4-5 psi boost it would spool almost instantly. I drove a Saab a while ago with that setup and you couldn't tell it was a turbo. Good grunt at low rpm and good mileage too.

Absolutely! I had one of those Saab turbos for 6 years and the midrange torque was great. It was a light pressure turbo and 228 lb-ft were available from 1900 through 4500 rpm. The 50 to 85 mph acelleration would plant you back in the seat. No turbo lag, either. A setup like that would be ideal for the TL.

wavshrdr

Repecat- I am glad someone else understands the benefit. Big wide torque plateau with very little stress to the motor. Even Chrysler is doing this now on the PT Cruisers with a low-pressure version. You don't grenade trannies and you get a very fast and drivable car.

You could even go with a VNT turbo to get even better response. Engine mgmt is simple and you really don't need an intercooler so you can keep the intake tract very short for improved throttle response. Way back when...before some of the people on this board were born I did some testing for Jackson Racing on one of the early HKS turbo kits for the CRX-Si. My car was the first turbo 86 Si in the US and we started out with very low boost and super response. I almost wanted to leave it that way but...power corrupts!

Allout

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Nitrous yet??? It will add a ton of HP and Torque but will not be usable in all situations.

wavshrdr

I've use nitrous a lot. Problem is ultimately your fun runs out and then you have to fill up the bottle again. It is often misunderstood. People hear all kinds of horror stories so in many ways it has gotten a bad rap. What people don't often remember is that nitrous saved a lot of pilot's lives during WWII.

Nitrous can be an amazing power boost AND increase reliability when done properly. I used to run nitrous in conjunction with turbo to improve the reliablity of the car on top speed runs. Just make sure you keep the solenoids clean, bottle at an even temp and secure it so it won't come loose in an accident.

A dry nitrous kit could be pretty easy to do in a TL and it would be almost invisible if done properly. Zex makes a kit for many cars including the older CL's and Legends. Maybe the'll have something soon for the TL. It's an easy 50-70 hp bolt-on. Could easily chop a second off your 1/4 mile time and add about 8-10 mph trap speed. I'd definitely want a bigger bottle though.

SouthernBoy

To wavshrdr;

Good for you!! You remember (history, maybe) that we used NOX in some of the engines in US fighters during WWII. And then along came my favorite fighter.. the P51 Mustang. In it's D configuration, it would run 451 MPH in level flight and had a range of 2000 miles. Nothing the Germans or the Japs could muster could come close to this beauty. We soon owned the skies.

Here's some interesting stuff for you. Makes us Americans proud.

In WWII, the US produced more planes and war ships that all of the other combatants combined. How many? Check out these numbers

Warplanes: 275,000
Warships: 87,000
Tanks: 155,000

At the end of the war, we had 101 aircraft carriers! And we developed three nuclear bombs to boot (one uranium and two plutonium). The sleeping giant was indeed awakened.

A-TLvic882

Soo, you wana more midrange torque, not a more HP?

Me too.

wavshrdr

Hard for me not to remember. Planes were my first love before cars. I was an aeronautical/aerospace engineer so I was more of a propeller head than a gearhead at first.

The Germans had NOX nailed too. BF109 was a great example. I always loved the P51 AFTER it got a real motor; the Merlin! Think about that for a minute. An American plane made successful with the inclusion of a British motor! Contrast that with 40 years later I couldn't wait to drop a V8 in my Jaguar chassis. Talk about things coming full circle.

I personally liked the H model as it was slightly faster and could do pretty close to 500 mph in level flight. Biggest complaint I had with the P51 was it could have done with more armament whereas the Luftwaffe had some pretty nice cannons on most of its planes. I really liked the P38 even though it wasn't as fast as the P51 it could carry a serious bomb load and had a cannon too. Can't forget the Mosquito which was a bomber as fast as many fighters.

Anyway I spend too much of my time in air museums around the world. If you ever make it to Moscow check out their Victory Park! Some great aircraft on display there. One thing I have never seen in Moscow is an Acura. You can see a lot of MB's (probably more on the road there than anywhere else I've seen) but no Acuras. I've only seen used ones supposedly for sale on the Internet but never on the streets.

Still want a few more ponies for my TL. Its finally broken in now and I can run it up through the gears. What a jewel of a motor but I just want a wee bit more. Is there a sticky thread anywhere on what performance items are available for the TL? I don't think a CAI would be much benefit on this car and I'd like to see realy dyno numbers before turning loose of my wallet.

lbbrando

I'm sure Acura will throw a TL-S or something with about 300hp in 06-07.

ONAGER

mosquito was an awsome aircraft, extremly fast, and fairly light (it was after all made primarily from wood) there were several variants the fighter version carried a total of 8 guns in the nose 4 .303 ins and 4 20mm cannon. talk about punch, and the were all in the nose... final versions (equipied with 1690 hp merlins) could do over 400 mph loaded with bombs... amazing airplane

my personal favorite was the P47 thunderbolt the "jug". i love it for its ability to take immense punishment and to continue flying and bring the pilot home. awsome firepower (eight .50 cal machine guns). some of the last versions of this airplane actually passed over 500 mph in level flight. could carry more then the 51 and had nearly the range with drop tanks

wavshrdr

Onager- Mosquito was an often overlooked airplane by the US. It really was amazing. I think I read somewhere it could carry the bomb load of a B-17! Mr. De Haviland started the desing and construction of the Mosquito even before he had a contract for it. He new it was going to be a winner. I also loved the Jug too because it was a "survivable" aircraft. It wasn't great on handling but nothing could outrun it in a dive. Airplanes were my passion for a long time. At least for a while the US government picked up the tab for me but now it is just too expensive to keep a plane. Kids and family take their toll on financial resources so I do the next best thing, cars and bikes.

The more I think about it the more nitrous could be a good add to the TL if used with restraint. A dry kit would be easy to set up and probably give me the extra shot I need.

cvajs

P51 with dual-staged superchargers, alcohol fuel with water injection to keep it cool? i had the great pleasure of working on one at the Pima Air & Space Museum in Tucson (i worked there for a short time).

cvajs

75-100HP easy with a single injector into the air-cleaner compartment, but i woul get larger fuel injectors to balance it out. at WOT, when you hit the NoS the injectors should open full.

i'm just weary about how much the ECU can adjust the timing on it's own.

NoS is the least intrusive method to get lots of extra HP. i'm thinking about getting a NoS brand (wet) Fogger nozzle and placing it just aft of the MAF sensor....

TLGen3

You guys crack me up! NOS? Common.... If done right the bigger injectors will require a thicker fuel rail, and fuel lines... Then the pump...

Everything starts with airflow, so do the obvious - add a throttle body spacer (if avail, if not then find a fabricator that can make one out of aluminum). You can ven bore out the throttle body... Get a K&N and upgrade the exhaust system - not with the ricer sounding lawn mower ones either! You can pray for a Jet chip, or the better solution is to have the computer reprogram so you can play with the TQ and HP settings while on the Dyno for maximum wheel TQ and HP tests. Hope this helps, BTW, be prepared to reaches deep in your pocket this chit.

Or if you really have cash fab a bracket for a turbo charger and put it on.

matelot

pull out engine and put in a HEMI ?

wavshrdr

TLGen3- You are sort of on the right track but I don’t think you really understand how nitrous works. Your comments would seem to indicate you don't totally understand. The reason you use nitrous is it already has what the engine needs; oxygen! You sure don’t want to add nitrogen to make the engine faster. All an engine is in reality is a big air pump.

You can make it more powerful by increasing the amount of air the engine can move. Common ways are to increase displacement which makes it a bigger air pump or used forced induction (turbo or supercharger). You can do other things to improve its peak operational efficiency but normally at the expense of drivability or less power at lower rpms.

Then there is nitrous oxide injection. Think of nitrous as chemical supercharging. It has additional oxygen the motor needs so you have to add additional fuel either through the factory injectors (assuming their duty cycles aren’t maxed out) or through additional jets to add fuel. A side benefit of nitrous is that when it is liquid form and goes through a state change from liquid to gas, it absorbs heat and cools the intake charge down further increasing the efficiency of the motor. You aren’t trying to make the air filter flow more oxygen because the motor is getting the oxygen from the nitrous injection! If the exhaust is restrictive then it might help to upgrade it.

I often used nitrous as a chemical intercooler on my turbo cars with great success. It reduced the thermal stress on my motor that high PSI turbo kits put on them. With respect to the TL I haven’t seen anyone show me any great gains from doing CAI or exhaust systems. Based upon that I can relatively safely assume that they aren’t super restrictive and I can get a big band for the buck from nitrous without having to upgrade the intake or exhaust. I don’t want a louder car, just a faster one.

I found that even a simple 75 hp nitrous kit on my 5.0 Mustang was good for a solid .75-1.0 second drop in the quarter mile when they car was totally stock! Best way to think of nitrous is as a chemical supercharger in a bottle!

Best bet would be then to set it up on a dyno and dial in the fuel injection with the nitrous and monitor the duty cycles on the injectors (if you go with a dry kit) and make sure the air fuel ratios are in spec. Dyno tuning can take a lot of time but it picked up 40 whp on my Subaru from when I first put it all together. I didn’t change any parts to pick the hp after the big turbo, intercooler, etc., I just dialed in the fuel system. Of course turbo cars are more sensitive to these things than normally aspirated cars. You can still get a few extra HP by dialing in the spark advance and making sure the car is at the idea A/F ratio!

To try and put it in perspective, a simple NOS kit will bring me at least 40hp at the wheels on the TL for about $700. To do that any other way on that car would cost thousands! Look at the price of an exhaust and you might be lucky to get 5-7 whp out of that on the TL. A CAI is close to $300 and at tops maybe 1-2 whp. You do the math and you tell me which is a better investment?

cvajs

where're ya putting a turbo unit, and how are you piping it? your points are all good for some extra HP, but lots of $$$ and effort to do them.

bigger injectors does not necessarily need bigger rail or pump (if you do a wet fogger then no need to touch the oem fuel injectors). NoS is the fastest and easiest way to get lots of extra HP (alot more than turbo or s/c). two 25lb NoS bottles in the trunk will be fun for many hits.

TLGen3

Wavshrdr - thanks for explaining. You certainly typed more then I would have, it shows you care, thanks. Anyway you are right to assume I don't have much NOS knowledge. You see all my experience is gained from getting more torque from an engine not HP - mostly from MOPAR engines. In the Jeep community torque is what drives us over huge boulders, not HP. I understand you the cause and effect of each, and understand that both play in intricate role. So maybe I'm outta my realm here since I’ve always found ways in gearing and engine performance to make a vehicle to go slower with the maximum amount to TQ to the wheels, rather then building on speed.

I don’t mean to knock NOS, but it just seems like a cheat. Please don’t take that the wrong way. – I’ll see the light soon enough

CAVJAS - Think outside the box, you can make a circle out of a square. With the right fab shop anything is possible.

The sky is the limit right?

cvajs

i see many hill climbers shooting 200-300 hp worth of NoS.

as for outside the box, i do, that's why i have TIG and MIG welders, metal bandsaws, etc, and soon a plasma cutter. it's just too costly to do the mods you speak of to the 3G TL. i don't like the massive bend in the downtube that comes down from the backside header before merging with the other into the 1st CAT. i may work on that at some point.

cheers

wavshrdr

TLGen3- You are right, I do care and I try to educate people rather than flame them. It does no good to make enemies of people. The beauty of NOS is it GREATLY increases torque just like supercharging does without the parasitic drag of a blower. On my MB the blower eats up about 100HP of the engines output. HP is really a function of torque AND RPM! In other words without torque you can't have HP and typically the faster you spin a given motor the more HP it will produce. This is why diesels make a lot of torque but relatively little HP as they don't rev so high.

To increase torque (without increase engine size) you need to increase the BMEP (break mean effective pressure). You can do this many ways such as tuned intake runners, different cams, higher CR (compression ratio), super or turbo charging, NOS, etc. Cram more fuel and air in the motor and it'll make more torque.

Nodoze2004

I agree that NOS is probably the best way to go, and that there are many other alternatives and augmentations that are possible, but this does not address the core issue.......why didn't Acura make a high perf version of this car?

Acura's actions
Kill the CL - a very popular car with tuners
Kill TypeS - What a shame
Offer "performance enhancements" but only provide cosmetic components (a.k.a. A-Spec)

Don't misunderstand me, I own an A-Spec'd TL but Acura could have done so much more.

My Solution

Offer a seperate TL (type S, A-spec whatever) with the following.
6 Speed only with more aggressive gearing (for low end response)
Factory Installed sport suspension (A-Spec is still too floaty in my opinion)
Factory Installed sport wheels (exclusive to this model)
Exclusive body kit and other parts (seats, steering wheel etc) to define this model, not parts that anyone can get seperately.

Acura is their own worst enemy. They offer a kit with parts that anyone can buy the parts seperately, that does not improve the performance of the car, that must be installed by the tech of the week at the stealership etc etc

Road Rage

Honda engines are well dialed-in normally aspirated. Significant additional power will not come from the usual "hot rod" techniques: exhaust, headers, cams, etc.

Power adders are the way to go: surpercharger, turbocharger, nitrous. On Hondas, usually superchargers are better for street driving, especially if you do not want to build up the engine (forged crank, rods, etc). SC'ers usually are designed to come on right when VTEC does.

The S2000 is even worse - it has all sorts of trick technology, including from the factory porting. My Mugen exhaust only adds a handful of power at the top end for $1500! An intake is less than 5 HP, again, at the top end. Fairly useless except for the track where one keeps the car "on the boil" a lot. I think it changes the character of the car a lot - so i doubt I will go with a power adder.

For the TL? I think a 3.5L engine with some more HP, and significantly more torque, is what works best in American driving situations. I think the TL has a great performance vs. economy balance, and since this is not my performance vehcile, I am content with it as it is. (See my signature). I think the next TL will have a 3.5 by the way.

Now what is enough power? I have figured that out for the Cobra: it is as much as I can make, since the car has few other redeeming qualities. It is a muscle car.

I thought my brother's E55 with nearly 500 from the factory HP was enough, but I would likely hop that up with the usual tricks (dyno tune, a bit more boost).

But the Metrcedes Benz SL coupe's V12 has over 600 HP, and what - 738 ft/lb's of torque?! Simply amazing, and with a warranty too. But for many, the Bentley Continental is a better choice.

wavshrdr

A friend of mine just bought the SL65 as his SL55 wasn't fast enough. I drive by my MB dealer every day waiting to see if the truck has delivered it yet. Can't wait to go for a ride in that sucker.

I still wan't a bit more torque and HP, get me around the 300/300 range and I'd be content for a while until they have an AWD version that can handle more then I'll want more. The TL is one of the nicer looking cars I have at the moment but it is also the slowest. Even my Excursion is faster and quicker in the 1/4 mile and it weighs 4 tons. I'd like to see it in the high 13's and 0-60 in the mid 5's with the 5AT.

SouthernBoy

Wow, I am impressed by the knowledge just displayed on this post about vintage aircraft. Very good, people!

Like Road Rage, I would also like to see more cubic inches in the TL engine. I'd opt for another 24 which would take it out to 220 cubes (3.5 liters for you liter-lovers). As I've mentioned before, if Acura (Honda?) maintained a comparable state of tune for this engine as they do with their 196 cube engine in the TL, we should be seeing somewhere around 300-305 HP and maybe around 280 lb/ft of torque.. normally aspired of course. That is what I would like to see happen with this car.

MR1

Wouldn't this be the current RL engine? Not sure about the torque though but 3.5 L/300 HP.

avs007