gtg441w

Hey Guys,

Walmart has Mobile 1 on sale for $21 for a 5 qt jug. The ones I've called and looked at don't have 0w-20 but they do have 0w-30 and, as always Mobile 5w-20. So I have a 2 part question for you guys...

1. Should I get the 0w-30 or the 5w-20

or

2. Does anyone in the Atlanta area know of a Walmart (or any other store) that has the 5 qt. jug of 0w-20 for $21 or close to that?

Thanks for the help guys.

gtg441w

Sorry...I meant Mobil and Mobil 1

BradE

5w-20. 0w-30 isn't needed for your climate, and will shear to a 20 anyway. You could run 5w-30 and be fine to.

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

I run 0-W30 (AMSOIL), no complaints and smooth sailing with a 7500 mile change interval

anilhanda

What about a winter climate? (ie. harsh Canadian winter)

ClemsonAcura

iTrader: (1)

I read a bunch of posts on this. The 0w will allow for a thinner start-up for quicker lubrication. As I understand it the 30w is not for our cars but it doesnt appear to make much difference over 20w.

Mobil 1's website says they do not make the 0-20w in 5 gallon jugs.

I am going to go with 0w30 for South Carolina

I did this for start up protection and higher temp protection heading into the winter.

aznboi2424

iTrader: (10)

both weights would be fine. Remember that the J series engine used to run 5W-30 until CAFE standards changed it to 5W-20 for slightly better fuel economy. 0W oils are becoming more popular just because they have the ability to save you fuel but only slightly, hence the introduction of Mobil's advanced fuel economy lineup.

Real question is why is there a 10 dollar price difference?

gtg441w

The $10 price difference comes from one being standard Mobil oil (5w-20) and the other being Mobil 1 (0W-30)

Flyer92

aznboi has a valid question. I'll stick with the Mobil1 5w-20. Warms up quick, car seems to like it, and advanceautoparts always seem to have a mobil1 synthetic + filter special going. $26.99 for 5qts of 5w-20 + K&N filter....yes i'll take that please.

gtg441w

I have also done a good bit of reading on different forums and blogs and stuff. I've learned a whole bunch about the chemistry, physics and derivations of oil, but I still have a bunch a real-world questions that haven't been answered. So maybe you guys could lay some knowledge on me or at least link me to one the thousands of oil links that might actually answer these questions.


1. Immediately after I turn the key and start the car, how long does it take for the oil to properly heat, pressurize and be ready to handle normal driving conditions?
(Just in general; I understand that starting a car in Miami will be different than in Canada.)


2. I understand that the 0 weight synthetic oil will be better at start-up than the 5 weight mineral oil, but how much will really help at start-up?
It's sort of the same question as with the "Advanced Fuel Economy" question. If it's $10 more to pick up 1/2 percent more real world performance, I don't really see the point.


3. Same question, only worded differently...So I think it would be safe that, aside from possibly better MPGs, the bigger benefit to using synthetic oil is less stress on the engine at start-up. Is syntheic oil really THAT MUCH BETTER than regular oil in real-world application and, if so, how much so?

Craigster05

Check out www.bobistheoilguy.com lots of information (and even more debate )

gtg441w

Yeah...I found that link in one of the previous oil posts. It's really informative for those who haven't read it yet. It's got a ton of great, scientifically based info. I read through his ridonculous dissertation and even took the tests at the end. My questions for this forum were aimed at getting some Acura TL 3rd Gen. (maybe even Type-S) based information from people who know how this information pertains particularly to our cars and have some experience with it.

theshawn

Using anything other than synthetic in our babies is sacriligious and should result in banishment from the kingdom of Acura.

but that's just me....I'm a new synthetic convert and may be talking out of turn....or something to that effect....

DMZ

I'm sure Mobil1 is good oil, but I cannot to bring myself to give any money to ExxonMobil. They reaped over $40 BILLION in NET profits in 2008 while ripping us off for almost $5/gal at the pump. Therefore, I don't think they need any of my money, OR YOURS. Also, notice gas at Exxon stations typically runs 5 - 10¢ MORE a gallon than most other brands?

The best value in synthetic I've found so far is NAPA's own brand, which is Valvoline SynPower with NAPA's name on it. Around $5 a quart.
.
.

DMZ

On my last visit to Acura of Manhattan earlier this year, Tony, the head mechanic unscrewed the oil cap, called me over, pointed into the opening, and said "Look In There, See How Clean That Is?, That's Because You've Been Using Synthetic"
.
.

packohotdogs

Neither... Mobil 1 5w20...

I hate cars

Instant for the most part. The oil pump is a positive displacement pump. It pumps the same volume of oil for each revolution no matter what the viscosity or temperature. Pressure will be higher with a thicker or colder oil but time to full lube is the same unless you run something way too thick for your climate. I've done tests to prove this and I can go into more detail if you like. The exception to this is if the pump goes into bypass.

Stay away from "advanced fuel economy". It gives that extra .5mpg by running an ultra low HTHS number. HTHS is directly related to engine wear. The higher the less wear. The lower the better the mpg. This is the single most important number when choosing an engine oil. Look it up for yourself and you will see anything with this designation will have an extremely low HTHS. The oil is literally designed to sheer when under load.


0w does not mean it will be thinner at startup. It likely gets that 0w rating at -30- -35F. Most 5w-20s will be thinner at a 50 degree startup than most 0w-30s. Take them both to -20 degress and the 0w-30 will probably be thinner at startup.
A real synthetic (grp IV or V) (not many Mobil One products, not the vast majority of Castrol "synthetics", not the grey bottle Pennzoil, etc) does have advantages.

A good syn will leave less of itself behind (sludge).

It will need less VIIs so it's "tougher", and will protect better.

It will stand up to very high temps without oxidizing better.

An ester like Redline will leave the ring land areas MUCH cleaner.

No, no, no! Those are the biggest bunch of posers ever. I got banned for suggesting that thinner may not be better and that UOAs are useless for measuring wear even though I had facts to back it up. The average person over there has no knowledge of how an engine works and what goes into making an oil but they give advice as experts. You are better off asking the a-zine members. Stay away from that site, it WILL lead you down the wrong path.

To answer some of the original questions, the TL will run fine on anything from 0w-20 to 15w-40.

If you live in a cold climate and do short trips where the oil never hits full temp, go with the 0w-20. If you run it hard and you live in a hot climate, to with a 5w-30 to 15w-40.

I'm sorry I don't have more time but I can elaborate a lot more if anyone wants. I left out several key points but I have to go do my new front brakes real quick.

I hate cars

To add to what I said earlier, probably the best J series engine builders said on 5w-20, the oil pressure is scary low at idle. When they changed the oil recommendation from 5w-30 to 5w-20 they changed nothing.

Don't be fooled by the "new engines have tighter clearances" bs. Pick up a repair manual and you will see clearances have not changed since the 1960s. Most bearing clearances are a function of journal diameter. Most piston to cylinder clearances are a function of overall cylinder diameter, piston type, and intended usage. Nothing has changed in this respect except tolerances (not clearances) have gotten better.

The J-series will go a very long time on almost any oil. It's known for being easy on oil. It's up to individual owners if they want the "best" or not. I can see both sides.

What I can say from my personal experience when going from 5w-20 (and a brief run with 0w-20 when I was working in winter in Flagstaff and Lake Tahoe) to an ester based 5w-30 is the valvetrain is much quieter, somehow vtec has just a little more kick. PCV system and intake manifold is extremely clean and oil free. My engine at 94,000 miles is quieter than it was new. It's perfectly clean under the oil cap but at 94,000 it's not long enough to say it's because of the oil yet. It does look like someone poured clean oil over a brand new engine under there but again, a dino changed at short intervals would probably look the same.

Be careful about the seemingly "scientific" studies over at bitog. They are good at presenting their opinions as "scientific evidence".

A little off topic of the J-32 but I do have a link on my home computer that I can dig up when I get home that talks with one of the Ford modular design engineers, he was part of the engine program that talks about why he would not run a 20wt in a Ford modular that he owned and that it's a CAFE thing.

DaddysOnehotAck

What about TL's with higher mileage,what should they use,5w30 or 10w30?? 10w30 is used alot on highmilage toyota's?

aznboi2424

iTrader: (10)

just put in what the manual says, just cause its high mileage that doesnt mean your gonna change the weight of the oil. You might switch to "high mileage" oils though, they worked for my mom's camry. Had white smoke at start up on 230k now. Sometimes people switch to a heavier weight at higher miles is cause they want to slow a leak down. Like its said above, the J-series is very good on oil.

I know I hate cars has his reasons for not liking BITOG, but they do have oil techs or chemists on there so some of the info im sure is good but like everything you read on the internet, just use your own judgment on what you want to follow. I mainly go on there for postings about oils on sale and cutting filters.

not sure what you mean by standard.
They have:
Mobil Clean 5000
Mobil Clean 7500
Mobil Clean High Mileage
Mobil 1
Mobil 1 Extended Performance

gtg441w

Man, this is what I'm talkin' about...
Thanks for all the great info guys. I've enjoyed learning a lot about oil on BITOG, but I also like to get multiple opinions from people smarter than me about stuff I'm not experienced with.

I would love to hear what you guys have to say about filters. I got a K&N yesterday because it was only a dollar more than the Mobil 1, but what about the other guys. I used to use Fram in my previous cars, but all of those had higher miles and were not as nice.

This all just stems from the fact that this will be the first oil change I do and the TL and I want to make sure I do it the right way with the right stuff.

I hate cars

They have a couple guys that make me feel dumb. Half the stuff they write is so over my head I'm googling every other word. However, I can only think of 3 total tribologists over there. The vast majority, if you read their posts long enough will slip up eventually and you'll know they are just internet regurgitators. They just repeat selected info they read with no experience or eduction on the subject nor to they know anything about engines.

The moderation is such that if you have an idea that differs a few select members will resort to personal attacks. I've been attacked for posting a diet thread, for owning an environmentally unfriendly GN, etc, etc. Then when you FINALLY say something back you're banned. They keep it so the thin oil lovers vastly outnumber the thick oil guys that have actual real world experience.

All I'm saying is be very critical and don't just believe everything you read over there because 95% of it is pure BS opinion of people who know nothing.

I hate cars

Amsoil EAO and Royal Purple filters are the only ones that use the synthetic media that outflows, outlasts, and outfilters everything else. Another great poster and very knowledgable guy who quit posting due to attacks was GeorgeCLS. Do a search for him on bitog and you will find the filter particle count tests. Extremely good info and it's 100% fact based. It's too bad they ran him off.

Donaldson makes the media in the above two filters but I'm not sure they make any car applications.

I hate cars

The only one of that list that's a synthetic is Extended performance.

aznboi2424

iTrader: (10)

K&N and Mobil filters are made by the same company: Champion Labs. They are essentially the same except the K&N has the nut on the case.

Mobil 1 and I think even Mobil HM says full synthetic on the bottle, just depends what you classify as synthetic depending on group number.

Majofo

K&N and M1 filters are made by champ labs but assuming they are the same is wrong. Marketing aside, M1 has some PAO content.. EP has more. Buying a qt of oil because it says full synthetic is like buying a cup of coffee because the diner has a sign outside that says world's best coffee.

troy_279

in my personal experience i've run mobil 1 5W30 in all my vehicles up here in cold canada and have never had any engine problems but my wife also tells me i drive "like an old man"

Bearcat94

In ATL either will work.

You didn't have 5W-30 as a choice and that's what I would've chose.

myblack04tl

How good are the Honda oil filters?

I hate cars

Don't waste your money. Average at best but you know how some people have "JDM" on the brain. Nothing better than Amsoil EAO or Royal Purple filters. Better flow and filtration than anything out there. It's been backed up with particle count tests.

I hate cars

Classifying a grpIII as a "fully synthetic" is just marketing at it's best. Some might call it a lie but unfortunately it's legal. It's funny how Mobil sued Castrol for that same marketing and when they lost they started doing it too.

K&N and Mobil filters are different. Many filters are made by the same company. Amsoil and RP don't make their own filters either.

WRXtranceformed

What originally sold me on Amsoil (or just using quality oil in general) was my old STi. Built motor, huge turbo, etc. With Mobile 1 15w50 that car would literally burn up a quart of oil after a couple of days of really hard use. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the engine. I switched over to Amsoil and it wouldn't burn a drop in between oil changes.

IHC has said it best here, it's really all personal preference and how anal you are about your car...AND if you're going to drive it into the ground. My TL-S is one of the first cars I've ever owned and wanted to keep for more than a year - year and a half...I'll probably end up driving this thing into the ground. I also average around 30,000 miles / year on it, so it's important for me to use only the best of the best to keep it running well.

I hate cars

It looks like we've had the same experience with high powered turbo cars and Mobil One 15w-50. I actually had better results on dino oil the M1 back then.

ClemsonAcura

iTrader: (1)

So here is my question....

If I am not trying to do extended change intervals.
I live in South Carolina and see temps from 100 summer and 10 or so in winter.
I drive shirt distances 95% of the time (3-4 miles 10 minutes) work and maybe two 30 minute drives on the weekends.

Which oil is best? I have always used Castrol GTX in pervious cars not synthetic but good Dino Oil.
My motorcycle uses 15W40 Shell Rotella T Synthetic that I have been told is among the best for the money.
In my older 3800 series GMs I used Normal Non Syn Rotella 15W40 to good avail.

I thought that the ow30 Mobile 1 from Wal-Mart I was the "right" oil for the money. I also looked at the 5W20 but I was under the impression that heading into winter the 0W30 would be better at start up since I don't get the car really "hot" with my driving?

I do not think I need nor want the $50 cost of Amsoil...if it had been 30 meaning 50% more I would think about it but at $21 dollars Mobil 1 seemed a good deal for what I thought was a "good" oil. Not the best but better then my older GTX or Rotella brands...

PS I end up changing twice a year because I figure every 6 months is cheap insurance...

Bearcat94

Honda/Acura have gone to a single filter for all vehicles (I think) except the S2000.

That standarized filter is made by Fram. Acura part number 15400-PLM-A02. I don't trust 'em. They might be just fine, but I don't trust 'em.

I hate cars

At a 10F startup temp, a 5w-20 may be thinner on startup. You would have to go on a case by case basis.

The only thing we know for sure is the 0w-30 will be thicker at full temp and thinner at -35.

The 0w-30 has a larger spread from cold to hot or thick to thin. Starting at -35F the 0w-30 will be thinner. Somewhere between -35 and 212F the 0w-30 becomes the thicker oil and it's usually fairly low in the temp range.

It's really up to you as even a 5w-30 and synthetic 10w-30 will be more than fine at 10F.

Personally I don't care for 0w oils in many performance oriented cars. They are great for those in very cold climates and who never let the oil get up to temp. But you trade HTHS for cold flow. The question is, do you really need the cold flow? I wouldn't bother until you get into the negatives.

aznboi2424

iTrader: (10)

I'll take that back, I believe that K&N has a higher flow rate.

nfnsquared

Here's what Acura had to say about 0W20 in their Jan 2010 service bulletin (pg 2):

Linky: Acura Service News, Jan 2010

A Few Words About 0W-20
Engine Oil

Without a doubt, oil plays a major part when it comes
to an engine’s performance and health. 0W-20
engine oil is fast becoming the recommended service
fill for many automakers, replacing the ever-popular
5W-20. Why? Because in engines designed for its
use, it provides superior starting performance and
fuel economy without the risk of premature engine
wear.
Engine wear typically happens when you start the
engine cold and it’s warming up, so it’s really
important for the engine oil to get to work right away.
0W-20 is a very low-viscosity oil that’s specially
formulated to quickly reach critical engine
components when the engine is started. It also
helps the engine use less fuel. The zero in 0W-20
doesn’t mean zero viscosity; it means superior
low-temperature performance.
Acura has been developing and testing engines for
a number of years now with the expectation that
someday 0W-20 would become the oil of choice. Just
so you know, we’re coming out soon with a job aid
that shows which current Acura engines using 5W-20
can also use 0W-20. With that job aid, your
dealership will enjoy more servicing and stocking
flexibility.

Any of our Acura techs seen this so called "job aid"?

I hate cars

I've seen roughly the same literature from Toyota too.

I don't believe a word of it except that it's in place for better mpg.

It bothers me to no end how not only do they say that it won't cause additional wear but that it protects better since oil gets to moving parts quicker.

Let's see, we have a positive displacement oil pump that pumps the same amount of oil every rotation no matter what the viscosity. I've done my own tests and even on a straight 30wt in the middle of winter in the TL, oil flow gets to the top of the engine before you release the key.

Translation: If you're using the right viscosity for the climate there will be no measurable difference in time to presure and flow from a 0w-20 to a 10w-30.
Crank is pressure fed but actually "lubed" by hydrodynamic wedged. In other words, the oil that is left in the bearing is protecting it before pressure even gets there. As soon as the crank is spinning fast enough and before pressure gets there, you have a hydrodynamic oil wedge in the bearing.

Cylinders and rings are lubed by the oil thrown off of the rod journals of the crank and/or oil squirters (which are usually more for piston cooling than lube). Again, residual oil is being flung about before pressure even gets there not to mention you have oil left on the cylinders. I've taken engines apart that sat for 6 months and there was still oil on the cylinders.

Cams.... OHC engines are usually designed where the cam lobe sits in a pool of oil in the heads so lube is instant regardless of pressure and only cam bearings are pressure fed.

I've read the literature by CAFE, I know how hard they push manufacturers to run this stuff. The 5w-20 label on the oil cap of the TL... CAFE mandated. I've seen the paper where it states that in order to not incur a penalty, "5w-20" must be printed on the fill cap. It's funny how some Toyotas say 5w or 0w-20 on the cap yet in the owner's manual it says under severe service to use a 5w or 10w-30. Then you look up their definition of "severe service" and it includes pretty much everything including normal driving in normal climates. Think that may be a way around the rules??