Mobil 1 Oil
09-18-2004, 10:47 PM
#41
Not a Blowhole
Originally Posted by New2004AcuraTLman
Break-in is real - it is quite severe in the S2000, with performance gains noticeably and measurably increasing as the miles pour on. Mine only has 1800 and is still tight. I have found increased peformance in every car I have owned that was bought new. I have calibrated test equipment verifying those increases, and track times whichh reflect them.
As a tribologist and ME, I could explain what is going on physically at the nanotribologic level, but it would make some folks' "heads hurt", according to their own posts on this forum. The short version is that ring tension and asperities on the cylinder walls need to hone to reduce friction and the resulting parasitic power loss. This occurs to a lesser extent throughtout the powertrain, including the ring/pinion or transaxle gears.
09-18-2004, 11:08 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Road Rage
As a tribologist and ME, I could explain what is going on physically at the nanotribologic level, but it would make some folks' "heads hurt",
09-19-2004, 01:03 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by Road Rage
Look at practically any 30K mile test vehicle in Car and Driver, and you will see that nearly every one has better acceleration at 30K than when it was new.
Break-in is real - it is quite severe in the S2000, with performance gains noticeably and measurably increasing as the miles pour on. Mine only has 1800 and is still tight. I have found increased peformance in every car I have owned that was bought new. I have calibrated test equipment verifying those increases, and track times whichh reflect them.
As a tribologist and ME, I could explain what is going on physically at the nanotribologic level, but it would make some folks' "heads hurt", according to their own posts on this forum. The short version is that ring tension and asperities on the cylinder walls need to hone to reduce friction and the resulting parasitic power loss. This occurs to a lesser extent throughtout the powertrain, including the ring/pinion or transaxle gears.
Break-in is real - it is quite severe in the S2000, with performance gains noticeably and measurably increasing as the miles pour on. Mine only has 1800 and is still tight. I have found increased peformance in every car I have owned that was bought new. I have calibrated test equipment verifying those increases, and track times whichh reflect them.
As a tribologist and ME, I could explain what is going on physically at the nanotribologic level, but it would make some folks' "heads hurt", according to their own posts on this forum. The short version is that ring tension and asperities on the cylinder walls need to hone to reduce friction and the resulting parasitic power loss. This occurs to a lesser extent throughtout the powertrain, including the ring/pinion or transaxle gears.
09-19-2004, 03:59 PM
#44
Not a Blowhole
Originally Posted by ali_enterprises
Road Rage could you go into a little more detail, and break it down at the nanotribologic level. I always read your post and learn from them and then talk car to people and it makes me sound like an expert in the automotive department.
http://mechanik.tu-berlin.de/popov/p...s/Nanowear.pdf
You asked for it!
09-19-2004, 04:03 PM
#45
Not a Blowhole
Originally Posted by Brokedoc
What's an ME? Medical Examiner? You work with dead people like on CSI? Fun job....
09-21-2004, 04:12 PM
#49
Not a Blowhole
Originally Posted by DeMAN
Road Rage; What are your thoughts on Royal Purple?
I think they are all hype, the purple angle is too cute for my tastes, and the UOA's I have seen have been uniformly unimpressive. That this oil gets big play in the tuner magazines says a lot about how easy it is to manipulate the media. RP has not been around very long, and its ad copy reads like a marketing man gone berserk, rather than a sober engineering oriented company. I do not know any of my friends who are tribs or SAE members who use it.
On their site last year, I found a huge "oversight" - they were hawking one of their non-synoils as a synoil - it was eventually "corrected", but no banner headline to clarify for those who had already bought into it - they probably still do not know.
I think any oil company that has to get a trade or service mark for its purple bottle has issues.
09-21-2004, 04:42 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by Road Rage
Mechanical engineer (also electrical engineer). I have degrees in both. Medical Examiner - do I sound like a freakin Medical Examiner?
09-21-2004, 05:00 PM
#51
Gratis dictum
And mine's in Geological Engineering which has little to do with the subject material, but I do appreciate the wisdom of Road Rage's explanations. Thank you very much.
09-21-2004, 07:18 PM
#52
Not a Blowhole
Originally Posted by cvajs
mine's in Nuclear Engineering with emphasis on Quantum Physics, hence my extreme curiosity to the additives that honda puts in the engine oil.
09-21-2004, 07:26 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by Road Rage
Half the postings here conjure up memories of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
09-21-2004, 08:06 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by Road Rage
It is in the Oil Journals, you just have to look! Also, there is a post now on "Oversize Oil Filters" where I explain what is going on at the nanotribologic level - the short version is that one wants the high points of metal (asperities) to shear/hone rather than break off - the moly fills the "valleys" between the peaks, creating an environment conducive to the honing. It may actually be deeper than just the mechanical effects - there may actually be CHEMICAL changes at the molecular lever, as the following paper postulates.
http://mechanik.tu-berlin.de/popov/p...s/Nanowear.pdf
You asked for it!
http://mechanik.tu-berlin.de/popov/p...s/Nanowear.pdf
You asked for it!
i'm still curious about the oil additives. from what i can gather, the shear psi of the oil must hold up to the ring pressure which in concert provide the seal and lubrication. if the oil cannot "cling" to the cylinder wall surface there may be metal-to-metal contact, which is bad.
i'm still curious to know the relevant power gains would achieves by having a cylinder wall that, on the molecular level, is flatter.
09-21-2004, 08:58 PM
#55
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Not necessarily "flatter". Actually the atoms rearange themselves into a configuration that is more conducive to less friction. Thus, the breakin occurs and the result is performance improvement that Road Rage has clear documentation of. 
Elementary my dear Watson!
Elementary my dear Watson!
09-21-2004, 09:24 PM
#56
Originally Posted by Road Rage
Pennzoil advanced mineral oil technology when it invested hundred of millions in a new hydro-cracking facility in the 1990's - the others have followed, Hydro-cracking, hydro-isomerization, etc have allowed tribologist and lubrication engineers to remove many of the bad things in minoils (wax crystals, sulfur) and alsoto make them more saturated, which the synoils accomplish in their creating molecule by molecule. Here are some terms of minoil refining and what they mean:
• Solvent Extraction- separates the naturally occurring saturated and unsaturated hydrocarbons.
• Hydrofinishing- removes some of the nitrogen and sulfur compounds, improves color, oxidation and thermal stability of base stock.
• Hydrotreating- converts some of the unsaturated hydrocarbons to saturated hydrocarbons to help improve yield prior to solvent extraction. This process also helps remove of large portion of sulfur and some nitrogen compounds.
• Hydrocracking- a sophisticated process in which molecules in the base stock fraction are rearranged into the desirable saturated hydrocarbon molecules. The yield of saturated molecules is much greater than that achieved with hydrotreating and solvent extraction.
• Hydroisomerization- when used along with hydrocracking, can transform the molecules of the base stock faction into the most stable form possible.
************************************************** **********************
I have no financial association with any of the brands mentioned. In my private car consulting with a limited clientele, I recommend and use LE, Amsoil, Motorcraft, Honda, Red Line, Pennzoil, M1, and other brands. It depends on the client's needs; for this group, cost is not a concern. But one of the guys is a zillionaire, has an NSX I work on, and a 2004 E55 AMG, and a Ferrari 512 BB. He uses the Motorcraft products, except in the NSX, where he uses LE 8130.
• Solvent Extraction- separates the naturally occurring saturated and unsaturated hydrocarbons.
• Hydrofinishing- removes some of the nitrogen and sulfur compounds, improves color, oxidation and thermal stability of base stock.
• Hydrotreating- converts some of the unsaturated hydrocarbons to saturated hydrocarbons to help improve yield prior to solvent extraction. This process also helps remove of large portion of sulfur and some nitrogen compounds.
• Hydrocracking- a sophisticated process in which molecules in the base stock fraction are rearranged into the desirable saturated hydrocarbon molecules. The yield of saturated molecules is much greater than that achieved with hydrotreating and solvent extraction.
• Hydroisomerization- when used along with hydrocracking, can transform the molecules of the base stock faction into the most stable form possible.
************************************************** **********************
I have no financial association with any of the brands mentioned. In my private car consulting with a limited clientele, I recommend and use LE, Amsoil, Motorcraft, Honda, Red Line, Pennzoil, M1, and other brands. It depends on the client's needs; for this group, cost is not a concern. But one of the guys is a zillionaire, has an NSX I work on, and a 2004 E55 AMG, and a Ferrari 512 BB. He uses the Motorcraft products, except in the NSX, where he uses LE 8130.
Yes, Group II and group III oils are kick ass. This will be the oils of the future for sure and a lot will be made right around the corner.
09-21-2004, 09:48 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by Pro Street
Not necessarily "flatter". Actually the atoms rearange themselves into a configuration that is more conducive to less friction. Thus, the breakin occurs and the result is performance improvement that Road Rage has clear documentation of.
Elementary my dear Watson!
Elementary my dear Watson!
that doc is a study of wear as examined as plastic deformation as matter migrates out of the friction zone. the amount of reduced friction lends to more power on a scale that is probably undetectable on todays dyno machines. the doc also clearly defines a wear rate, so my guess is, if a additive creates a layer then at some point that layer of composition must be worn away (the doc says the thinner layers have lower wear rates, so i'm hoping the oil additive creates a very special very thin layer).
270.125679 HP with additive
270.000001HP without additive
and before you jump, these #'s are bogus, i'm just making my viewpoint.
10-13-2004, 05:32 PM
#58
Took car in today for first oil change and requested Mobil 1 (6100 miles). Service advisor told me to wait until the second oil change or at least 10,000 miles to put in synthetic because it takes that long for the rings to completely seat. He'd had an integra with first oil change with synthetic and it began using a lot of oil. Any thoughts?
10-13-2004, 08:07 PM
#59
Not a Blowhole
Originally Posted by Dutchml
Took car in today for first oil change and requested Mobil 1 (6100 miles). Service advisor told me to wait until the second oil change or at least 10,000 miles to put in synthetic because it takes that long for the rings to completely seat. He'd had an integra with first oil change with synthetic and it began using a lot of oil. Any thoughts?
10-14-2004, 01:18 PM
#60
Originally Posted by Road Rage
Baloney - this is true with the S2000, mainly because of the carbon fiber reineforced cylinders. Your service advisor is lost in the 70's. Today's boring and low ring tensions do not require that much break-in. Plus,. the best mineral oils are just as low in friction as the synoils, so there is effectively no significant spread there.
10-14-2004, 06:02 PM
#61
Not a Blowhole
Originally Posted by Dutchml
Not just lost in the 70's, I don't think he had even been born yet.
11-07-2004, 12:05 AM
#62
SCMPredator
Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
The most convincing evidence I have ever seen as an argument for using Mobil 1 (which I have used in my last three cars) is a long term test reported on MotorWeek by Pat Goss. BMW ran a 3-series 4-cylinder car on a closed test loop for over 1 million miles. The oil which was used in the engine was Mobil 1. At the end of the test, the engine was disasembled and its parts were layed out on tables. THERE WAS NO DISCERNABLE WEAR TO ANY OF THE PARTS: RINGS, CYLINDER WALLS, BEARINGS, CAMSHAFT.. YOU NAME IT.
I suppose it really boils down to what you are willing to spend and how you feel about your engine.
I suppose it really boils down to what you are willing to spend and how you feel about your engine.
here is the link to that test:
http://www.mr2.com/ARTICLE/Mobil1.html
11-07-2004, 12:36 AM
#63
Not a Blowhole
Yes, i read it a few years ago. Of course, a test mock-up in a lab does not translate to real-world conditions.
Note that the article said "treadmill". That should tell you the technical expertise of the reporter - it really is an odd article anyway, as there is no comment from others (hell, i could have commented) to question or make salient comments about the applicability of the tests. The whole thing read like an info-mercial for "shark cartilage"; the kind you see early in the a.m. on cable TV.
Highway driving, even at speed, is the least stressful of all drivijng, since the loading on the engine and tranny are minimal.
I do not dispute Mobil1's test, and they make a fine product, no doubt. But I would be more interested if it would involve M1 and one of today's best minoils, lke MC or Havoline.
Note that the article said "treadmill". That should tell you the technical expertise of the reporter - it really is an odd article anyway, as there is no comment from others (hell, i could have commented) to question or make salient comments about the applicability of the tests. The whole thing read like an info-mercial for "shark cartilage"; the kind you see early in the a.m. on cable TV.
Highway driving, even at speed, is the least stressful of all drivijng, since the loading on the engine and tranny are minimal.
I do not dispute Mobil1's test, and they make a fine product, no doubt. But I would be more interested if it would involve M1 and one of today's best minoils, lke MC or Havoline.
04-24-2008, 10:04 PM
#65
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^^
Seach these two terms:
"PCX-004"
"PLM-A01"
You will get several good and 1 or 2 VERY GOOD oil filter threads.
Seach these two terms:
"PCX-004"
"PLM-A01"
You will get several good and 1 or 2 VERY GOOD oil filter threads.
04-24-2008, 11:57 PM
#66
Suzuka Master
Originally Posted by Azuki
Can we have Acura dealers put Mobil 1 for oil change? Maybe it will cost a lot more right?
06-09-2008, 06:16 PM
#68
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Okay i am gonna use Mobil 1 synthetic oil on my next oil change, the manual it recommends 5w-20 on regular oil. If im using Mobil 1 synthetic should i use the same weight????
06-09-2008, 06:42 PM
#69
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5W20 or 5W30 should do you fine. Either one.
06-09-2008, 07:48 PM
#71
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Mobil 1 is factory fill on:
Acura RDX
Aston Martin
All Bentley Vehicles
All Cadillac Vehicles
Chevrolet Corvette C6 and Z06
Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS
Chrysler 300C SRT-8
Cobalt SS S/C Coupe
Dodge Caliber SRT-4, Charger SRT-8, and Magnum SRT-8
Jeep Cherokee SRT-8
Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles
Mercedes SLR
Mitsubishi Evolution
Pontiac Solstice GXP
All Porsche Vehicles
Saturn Ion Red Line and Saturn Sky Red Line
Viper SRT-10
Acura RDX
Aston Martin
All Bentley Vehicles
All Cadillac Vehicles
Chevrolet Corvette C6 and Z06
Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS
Chrysler 300C SRT-8
Cobalt SS S/C Coupe
Dodge Caliber SRT-4, Charger SRT-8, and Magnum SRT-8
Jeep Cherokee SRT-8
Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles
Mercedes SLR
Mitsubishi Evolution
Pontiac Solstice GXP
All Porsche Vehicles
Saturn Ion Red Line and Saturn Sky Red Line
Viper SRT-10
06-09-2008, 07:58 PM
#72
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Why change weights?
Originally Posted by balla01
Okay i am gonna use Mobil 1 synthetic oil on my next oil change, the manual it recommends 5w-20 on regular oil. If im using Mobil 1 synthetic should i use the same weight????
Any insight on this would be great.
Jim
07-20-2008, 01:05 PM
#73
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Originally Posted by jweb12
I was going to start another thread for this but there are more than enough oil threads as it is. I've read numerous "which oil (brand) is better" threads but haven't seen a lot on the weight. In reading all the oil brand threads it seems like people are running a wide array of oil weights. What are the determining factors in picking the weight? Earlier in this thread different weights of M1 were listed along with their "recommended usage". But, the stock 5W-20 wasn't included.
Any insight on this would be great.
Jim
Any insight on this would be great.
Jim
Oil is such a controversial topic, but there are some "truths" that should be considered. 20 weight oil seems to offer slightly (maybe one, if not less, miles per gallon) due to it being thinner which results in less resistance in the internals of your engine. The down side is that some will say it offers less protection in the long run compared to a 30 weight oil. If you read around, you'll see a lot of car manufacturers switched from recommending a 30 weight oil to a 20 weight even when the engine remained the same. As to why this was done, who knows but there is strong evidence supporting the EPA really pushing car manufacturers to be more "green". Personally, I choose to run the 30 weight (Mobile 1 or Amsoil 5W-30 Full Synthetic to be exact).
07-20-2008, 01:23 PM
#74
Team Owner
If you look back over the years, manufacturers used to have a wide range of acceptable oil weights in the owner's manual based on the climate the car was going to be run in. Some ranged as much as a 5-30 for very cold climates all the way to a 20-50 in very hot climates. They left it up to the consumer to make the right choice. As the average car owner has become dumbed down and the CAFE and EPA are really pushing mileage, they have gone to the one oil fits all thinking to avoid problems. I know GM had problems with owners using 20-50 in -30 degree climates and spinning bearings.
Oil choice should still be based on climate and operating conditions. If you live in a cold climate or do only short trips where the oil never gets to operating temp, go for the 5-20. Hot climates and hard driving, a 10-30 will work nicely. I guarantee the 10-30 is no thicker in a 100 degree summer than a 5-20 is in a cooler climate.
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever seen the recommended temp ranges for different oils? Even a 10-30 is plenty thin for sub freezing temps. That's why I run the straight 30wt in the hot summers around here. In the Vegas summer I would have no problems running a 15-40 in the TL if I planned on running it hard at an auto-x. Again, super hard long runs in 110 degree heat, the 15-40 is about as thick as a 10-30 in normal conditions.
In other words, just use your head.
Cold climates, short trips= thin stuff.
Hot summers, hard running, long trips= thicker stuff.
Oil choice should still be based on climate and operating conditions. If you live in a cold climate or do only short trips where the oil never gets to operating temp, go for the 5-20. Hot climates and hard driving, a 10-30 will work nicely. I guarantee the 10-30 is no thicker in a 100 degree summer than a 5-20 is in a cooler climate.
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever seen the recommended temp ranges for different oils? Even a 10-30 is plenty thin for sub freezing temps. That's why I run the straight 30wt in the hot summers around here. In the Vegas summer I would have no problems running a 15-40 in the TL if I planned on running it hard at an auto-x. Again, super hard long runs in 110 degree heat, the 15-40 is about as thick as a 10-30 in normal conditions.
In other words, just use your head.
Cold climates, short trips= thin stuff.
Hot summers, hard running, long trips= thicker stuff.
07-20-2008, 01:28 PM
#75
Team Owner
Originally Posted by happytang
Why not use 0w-20? Mixed reviews... but hell, doesn't all oil have mixed reviews?
07-20-2008, 01:31 PM
#76
Team Owner
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
Mobil 1 is factory fill on:
Acura RDX
Aston Martin
All Bentley Vehicles
All Cadillac Vehicles
Chevrolet Corvette C6 and Z06
Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS
Chrysler 300C SRT-8
Cobalt SS S/C Coupe
Dodge Caliber SRT-4, Charger SRT-8, and Magnum SRT-8
Jeep Cherokee SRT-8
Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles
Mercedes SLR
Mitsubishi Evolution
Pontiac Solstice GXP
All Porsche Vehicles
Saturn Ion Red Line and Saturn Sky Red Line
Viper SRT-10
Acura RDX
Aston Martin
All Bentley Vehicles
All Cadillac Vehicles
Chevrolet Corvette C6 and Z06
Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS
Chrysler 300C SRT-8
Cobalt SS S/C Coupe
Dodge Caliber SRT-4, Charger SRT-8, and Magnum SRT-8
Jeep Cherokee SRT-8
Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles
Mercedes SLR
Mitsubishi Evolution
Pontiac Solstice GXP
All Porsche Vehicles
Saturn Ion Red Line and Saturn Sky Red Line
Viper SRT-10
07-20-2008, 02:21 PM
#77
Team Owner
Just looked it up. A synthetic 10-30 is ok to use down to 0F. I'm not sure why these 0 weights are so popular.
07-20-2008, 09:53 PM
#78
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Originally Posted by I hate cars
If you look back over the years, manufacturers used to have a wide range of acceptable oil weights in the owner's manual based on the climate the car was going to be run in. Some ranged as much as a 5-30 for very cold climates all the way to a 20-50 in very hot climates. They left it up to the consumer to make the right choice. As the average car owner has become dumbed down and the CAFE and EPA are really pushing mileage, they have gone to the one oil fits all thinking to avoid problems. I know GM had problems with owners using 20-50 in -30 degree climates and spinning bearings.
Oil choice should still be based on climate and operating conditions. If you live in a cold climate or do only short trips where the oil never gets to operating temp, go for the 5-20. Hot climates and hard driving, a 10-30 will work nicely. I guarantee the 10-30 is no thicker in a 100 degree summer than a 5-20 is in a cooler climate.
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever seen the recommended temp ranges for different oils? Even a 10-30 is plenty thin for sub freezing temps. That's why I run the straight 30wt in the hot summers around here. In the Vegas summer I would have no problems running a 15-40 in the TL if I planned on running it hard at an auto-x. Again, super hard long runs in 110 degree heat, the 15-40 is about as thick as a 10-30 in normal conditions.
In other words, just use your head.
Cold climates, short trips= thin stuff.
Hot summers, hard running, long trips= thicker stuff.
Oil choice should still be based on climate and operating conditions. If you live in a cold climate or do only short trips where the oil never gets to operating temp, go for the 5-20. Hot climates and hard driving, a 10-30 will work nicely. I guarantee the 10-30 is no thicker in a 100 degree summer than a 5-20 is in a cooler climate.
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever seen the recommended temp ranges for different oils? Even a 10-30 is plenty thin for sub freezing temps. That's why I run the straight 30wt in the hot summers around here. In the Vegas summer I would have no problems running a 15-40 in the TL if I planned on running it hard at an auto-x. Again, super hard long runs in 110 degree heat, the 15-40 is about as thick as a 10-30 in normal conditions.
In other words, just use your head.
Cold climates, short trips= thin stuff.
Hot summers, hard running, long trips= thicker stuff.
I doubt there is any significant difference between 20 and 30 weight oils for a basically stock motor and normal street driving. Anyway, back to the original topic of the thread. I think Mobile 1 is a great choice and readily available. I've always been an Amsoil fan but they didn't have the weight I needed at Joes.
07-21-2008, 01:16 AM
#79
Safety Car
Originally Posted by MADCAT_RENAMED
I've used it for almost a year now...no problems to speak of other than it'll cost you more.
07-21-2008, 01:12 PM
#80
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Originally Posted by erick3
walmart man. 20 bucks! for 5 quarts!
YES!!
AND watch the stuff you buy at the various auto parts stores. Some of them are 4 Quart containers, not 5.