PhilB81

Okay, this is a bit of a click bait title, but the point stands based on an assessment on the car's value I received today after a B1 service at the dealership.

I thought I'd share this with the rest of you guys; here it goes! I have a 2008 Acura TL-S Manual Silver (ASM) with Silver/Ebony interior. 96,718 miles. [seats in great shapes, no deep cracks or holes, dash is fine as well just a bit of a passenger airbag outline]

here is the breakdown
- Odometer +$650
- Options: Manual Transmission -$500 [yes this is a minus, hence the title of the thread]
- Original Owner +$50
- Color $0
- 2Keys $0
- Service Status $0 [mind you all service was done at dealership on time or early]
- Body Damage $0
- Wheels
Thread depth -$300
Curb rash -$150 [ya 1 wheel got nailed at the airport kiosk]
- Warning lights [none] $0
- Interior Damage $0
- Mechanical $0
- Aftermarket Modifications $0
- Glass Damage $0

Car value $5,750

Anyways, I had a pretty good laugh at the $5,750 and laughed even harder when I saw the manual killed the value. They might as well offer me some fountain water and a lollypop at that price. I would be pretty annoyed if I was looking at selling it, but I love the car, so this was just funny to my wife and I.

-Phil

seinfeld-bassline

thats rich... they'd still list it at 20k

peter6

Not sure what you want us to write.

For average person in USA manual transmission is a downside. That's why they make automatic Mustangs, Camaros, Miatas, etc. That's why there's less and less manuals sitting at the dealers. I guess that's why dealer would take off money for having a MT.

And remember that dealer priced your car for almost ~6k, which is actually pretty good. You are also closing in for timing belt service, but not sure it they took that under the consideration. But 6k means that they know that they can still make some decent money on reselling it.

If you try to sell it to some "private party" and car is actually in a good condition, then it would be worth more. Especially that there are still people who will look for MTs and are willing to pay more for MT, and there's not that many MT (from 07-08) for sale.

If you don't want to sell it, then why does it matter how much it's worth?

PhilB81

haha, that's a bit optimistic

Regarding the "what I expected you guys to write" I didn't really have anything in mind, I just thought I'd share the un-solicited offer from the dealership.
The belt (water pump, the whole kit) was done maybe a year ago, I did it shortly after it turned 10 years old.
Ya, I get it, some people buy vehicles to get from point A to point B, they want the minimum amount of involvement while driving, I live in Florida I'm surrounded by beige corollas. But that's not really the kind of person I am and considering this is a car forum, I suspect that's not true for most folks here.
Regarding manual vs automatic, to me some cars make sense in automatic while other cars, I prefer manual. Example: if I'd buy a truck or a luxury car, it would be automatic (M3 or M4 I would go manual, M5 I might go towards auto [if both transmissions are even an option]). But others cars, like say Ferrari F430, the manual is a decent premium over the dual clutch. Going over to Porsche, the 991.2 GT3 the manual is doing better than the PDK. I suspect in the long run the manual Carreras will also do better than the PDK siblings even though the PDK transmission is a great transmission. I'm not event going to bring up the first generation NSX auto vs manual...

The other factor for me is nostalgia. Say I'm looking at an older 2003 M5, it's manual no questions. Lets pretend this is even an option, but a brand new M5 Competition package, I'm slightly leaning towards the auto. Partially because automatics have improved and also because the new M5 is so plush and while i'm driving i'd be too busy playing around with all the buttons and gizmos in it to be bothered with shifting gears.

Oh and regarding the "If you don't want to sell it, then why does it matter how much it's worth? ", I completely agree with you, this was for entertainment value only. But the fact that Acura has problem shifting manual cars, to me is making them become the "beige corolla".

fishinmagician

In reality, the manuals on a TL increase the price from $2000-$3000 from what I have noticed

08KBP_VA

Yeah and the dealer will advertise it as rare, sought after, blah blah blah and will carry a $10k+ price tag and will sell in under a week.

seinfeld-bassline

[QUOTE=PhilB81;16485337]haha, that's a bit optimistic

acutally....

2007 Acura TL for sale - Autolist

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-acura-tl-3/

prices are definitely tracking up for stick TL-S in good shape (as yours probably is), and depending on where in the country you are, 20 large MSRP at a dealer with a 15-17 ATP isnt too far outside the realm of possibility, which makes the 6k offer that much funnier. these are not book value cars anymore, they are entering the legit enthusiast/collector crowd which places no weight on what graves or KBB says, especially considering estimated production figures of between 2k to 4.5k stick TL-S ever made

Jackass

From a dealer's perspective, it does not. A manual is more difficult to sell quickly. To the right buyer, it is worth the premium. But out of the 100 people that come to look at it over a month or two, only 1 or 2 will be interested in a manual.

My dealer always tries to "bid" for my car on trade-in every time I come in for an oil change. I chuckle since I know there is no way they will offer me much as well as Acura still has nothing of interest to me these days. I love my 3G and have been extremely impressed with the service from my local dealer, but the brand has lost me over the years.

BreezyTL

iTrader: (8)

What a slap to the face! They would easily mark it up 100% if not more and sell it. Reason #19284192674 I hate dealerships!

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I'll pay you $6,000 today for your car.

truonghthe

Nope, I sunken too much $$ into the Type Slow. I am not selling it or trading it, may be some day it will become a classic lol.

08KBP_VA

^In some ways it has become a classic, a modern classic.

Papaman677

I have an 05 6MT that I bought new June 7th 2005. For a while I've thought about selling it and getting something different. A search on autotrader nationwide right now has 26 6MT's from 04-06...not type s obviously. I actually wonder how much I could get for my car. Some of these are listed around $7k, and mine is in much better condition. Right now I have 140k on the clock, and my car is mint. It's been garaged it's whole life, no dash cracks, no cracked leather. If I search to see what my car is worth, it's actually not that much though.

PhilB81

[QUOTE=seinfeld-bassline;16485471]Granted that's "asking" price, but that is higher than I realized, good find!

Ya, I've told them before to stop with the trying to buy it or "upgrade" me to a new Acura. The only thing I wish the TL had is the ability to play music via Bluetooth.

hahaha, insert Trump "the art of the deal" meme here

Your TL looks really nice, I like the Blue with Aspec combo you have. Other than basic maintenance and HFL replacements, I didn't put any money in mine. There is just something about it that I like. The driving position is just right, interior is nice, exterior looks great. I would like to see it become a classic too just because personally, I think it's a great car. I also hope that if it is somewhat of a classic, and I ever sell it, only a good owner, one that's interested in cars will be willing to spend a little extra for it will be considering the purchase. Owners that just want a car to beat into the ground will look for something cheaper.

Nice, you're a long time owner! You're right, KBB is not very favorable for these cars. I used to see a silver A-Spec driving around, that car looked great! Now, I wonder what happened to it. Anyways, stop looking at autotrader and keep your TL

Papaman677

[QUOTE=PhilB81;16485840]It's been a great car. Only thing is my airbag light is on, open switch in belt buckle and have been lazy in taking it to the dealership.....I think it's covered. I also need to replace my suspension Problem is there are so many cars I want, from an STI to the Lexus RC. It's also hard to give up the TL, it was my first big purchase after becoming a teacher. I figure they're not making any more Acura's in manual so keeping it is probably a better idea.

PhilB81

Very clean car and I like the interior color.

That's funny, I have the opposite problem you're having. I'm struggling to find a car that I'm willing to buy / trade the TL for. I do like the STI, but I would like something more plush, my wife has something against Mercedes, so that's a no-go. M3 or M5 is nice, but I'm not willing the part with the $$ required to park one in my garage (it's more the steep depreciation that gets me). From co-worker / car guys, I've heard that Audis are nice in the short run but a bear to work on and pricey to maintain. Acura, there is nothing in the lineup that's interesting to me. If Acura made a minivan, I might consider trading up our 2011 Odyssey for one, but as far as sedans go, not happening. At the end of the day, the math in my book is telling me: TL-S forever!

seinfeld-bassline

Agreed, theres basically nothing on the market under 45k i would trade my TL-S for. I have a current gen WRX too (my third), and ill be getting rid of it within the next month- it is a backroads terror with huge grip and sharp handling, but it has completely lost the "subaru charm" that made my 04 and 05 so appealing. the equal length headers sound like crap, the NVH/road noise is constant, the steering is nicely weighted but totally numb, and its a barely better highway ride than my blob eyes were. the trade offs are too many and the problems are too glaring. An STI would probably fix a lot of these complaints but thats a car you should probably buy brand new and the current gens are on the way out. I looked into going with ze germans, but i have too many life events coming up (engaged, home ownership) to justify the cost of ownership without putting my other hobbies out to pasture.

1black_seven

iTrader: (2)

It's a business.Their purpose is to make money. IDK why people are still shocked about this.

Papaman677

I agree that there's nothing in Acura's line up that I'd get. I think after the 3g TL Acura just took a huge dump. I love the Lexus RC, but I'd only want the RC F......because I'm an a hole like that I came across a few used ones around $39k....maybe in a few years I can afford it. I would never go German, too much spent on maintenance. As much as I would like to get a new car, I look at my TL and think it's in really great shape, I'd be stupid to take on a $500/month payment for a "fun" car. I have a 2010 Honda Fit, also manual, as a daily that I picked up almost 3 years ago.

PhilB81

I hear ya! Luckily for me, I'm an old fart, been married a decade, been living in my current house 13 years. Mid late 20s was definitely a tighten the belt time for me.

Stellar progression there, the only units they are shifting are RDX. The only reason Honda / Acura has any sort of following is because of the cars the put out in the 90s. Either that, or I'm just stupid and I don't see their marketing genius.

I've had a few folks I've known that love the Honda Fit. Almost seems like it's modern version Civic SI / CRX platform. I've never driven one, but I see one at every Autocross I go to.

Anyways, I didn't mean to turn this into Honda bashing, to be fair my lawn Honda mower is still fantastic 10/10 would buy again

Papaman677

I actually love my fit. It's actually fun to drive because it's small and it actually doesn't handle that bad considering the tires are a little bigger then a mountain bike tire lol. If it had some work it would definitely make a fun little track car. I'm sure in automatic I'd want to throw myself out of it while it's moving It reminds me of my 99 integra...not gsr. It's as close to an old Honda that you can get, and it's good on gas. After filling that 10 gallon tank with regular to the TL with a 16 gallon tank of premium, its quiet a few bucks extra.

twokexlv6coupe

'05 STi (making decent power and ENTIRELY too much $$$$ dumped into) and '07 KBP Type-S 6-speed speaking here, both cars considered (in their own respective groups) to be the most sought after/"collectible"/"classic", so I know I could demand a premium if the time ever came to a private party. Never in my wildest dreams would I think of trading into a dealership. That's like rule #1 in my book.

There are rare times I think about selling both cars and consolidating down to 1 car, and have my racecar and DD bundled into 1 money-pit. My requirements; AWD, luxurious, and fast (>400hp). Budget of 55K max, pre-owned. Surprisingly, and I'm prolly an outcast for thinking this, but I'm willing to sacrifice a manual trans.
The one's that immediately come to mind;
-GTR; tranny problems
-AR Giulia Quadri, I'd imagine would be similar to dating a stripper; would be the time of my life for awhile, but will constantly be thinking of the long-term risks.
-RS4 or 6, ideally an Avant/wagon, apparently are rarer than rocking-horse shit here in the US. Plus a used German.......
-M3/5.... the only AWD of them is the newest F90 correct? Yea right.
-I've started appreciating AMG's more recently, altho IDK which ones, if any, are AWD.
-A brand new RS3, which would be pushing my budget.

Then I take the subie for a spin and hit 24psi in 2nd gear letting that EWG scream and I tell myself while laughing hysterically "I'm never selling this car"


Would I sell the Type-S FOR an STi???
In terms of having fun, there is no contest, hands down.
In terms of reliability, tho...... No.

DMZ

A manual transmission actually makes the car MORE desirable and worth MORE money since they're rare. Only about one in 40 of these cars are manuals. I still get offers from people who want to buy it. Don't believe the stealership's BS!
.
.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Hmmm, while I agree these cars are A) rare and B) worth considerably more than an otherwise identical Automatic version; I do not believe they are as rare as one in forty. I ran across a published number a year or two back which stated the 3G TLs with manual transmissions constituted something between 4.5% and 5.0% of sales; more like one in twenty.

seinfeld-bassline

its somewhere between 2.5% and 5% from what i have seen quoted; the wikipedia actually quotes 1 in 40, and i recall there being a link to a source once upon a time but it is no longer there, so who knows. we DO know that the 4G take rate was expected at 5%, but that was definitely optimistic. https://www.motortrend.com/cars/acur...cura-tl-drive/

2004: 77,895 (between 1,947-3,894)
2005: 78,218 (between 1,955-3,910)
2006: 71,348 (between 1,785-3,567)

Standard TLs with sticks number between 5,687-11,371.

2007: 58,545 (1,463-2,927)
2008: 46,766 (1,169-2,338)

So thats between 2,632 and 5,265 type S manuals, ever. that huge drop off in production #s from 06 to 07 means that stick TL-S are actually pretty low production, and one has to wonder how many have escaped the junkyard at this point. Would love to know what the numbers on auto type S were, but something tells me we will never know.

Just for context, Porsche made 12,617 911 Turbo coupes from in 07-08, and 6,650 GT2 and GT3 variants over the same time period. So, if you are the proud owner of a stick TL-S, theres a pretty good chance it is rarer than a GT2/3 of the same vintage

Midnight Mystery

Market it as rare. Well. I assume you're not selling it yourself.

Hell. I got $5300 for an average condition ASM base last year on trade. Was a small dealer, though.

I went to have my clean 2011 Kia appraised at a Ford dealer and they were only going to give me $1K for it.

PhilB81

You've changed my mind, I need a Giulia now

What about GT3 manual

Cool to see those numbers though, the manual numbers are lower than I thought, maybe that's why they stopped making them towards the end? Back in 2008 when I was car shopping, it took me a while to settle on a car (I was hoping to get a bmw 335i happen) but by the time I settled and I went to Acura. I got an "uh oh" from the car sales guy. He turns his monitor towards me and says "they disabled the manual transmission option". Fortunately, he was able to track an un-sold one at the factory shipping docks which is how I ended up with ASM (second color choice) instead of WDP exterior color.

For now, I'm definitely not selling. If the time comes, I'll try to send it off to an enthusiast, not dealer auction.
Wow, Ford is pretty generous!

fakespike

Having a rough time finding the TL I’d like. Mostly because I only want the 6MT. Open to both 3G or 4G, but 3G would have to be an S. Only been looking hard for a couple weeks but finding a manual one is not easy; there are literally hundreds of pristine autos I could buy, even in my own town (San Diego) but the 6MTs are selling for a ridiculous premium (ridiculousness is in the eye of the beholder obviously, but for reference there’s a 07 type S with very low miles asking for 19k and another with 90k miles asking for 14k. Seems high but haven’t been watching the market long enough to know for sure. I just this morning had a 2010 SH boughtbout from under me on carmax for 15k while I was calling about having it shipped from LA to SD.

PS. I also had an 04 WRX 5MT wagon that my wife forced me to sell when we went van life and moved to LA (ie downsized to 1 car).

I’d love to buy someone’s car off here if it were bone stock and babied with low miles, and would pay a decent price, just not a gouging by a small used car dealership that knows they can rake someone over the coals for the 6MT. Or maybe a low mileage 07 S is really worth 19k, just not to me though.

TLDR: I don’t think your MT is going to make your car any less valuable lol

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

A low mileage Type-S 6MT for $14,000 is not over-priced. Supply and demand; the supply is very low and the demand is quite strong.

fakespike

Is 91k considered low mileage? (Actual question, not being sarcastic). That one is $14k.

There’s also one with 65k miles for $17k.

And one with 51k for $19k.

Love the $19k one, right color and everything, just have a psychological issue paying that much for a 13 year old car. Maybe you guys can help me overcome that psychological barrier.

fakespike

Forgot to add that all 3 of those cars are 2007.

Midnight Mystery

91K is low for a 2007. Heck, our 2007 RDX has 272K miles.

Also, it's not important the age. In fact, I feel like there was a marginal decent in automotive quality since then and this is just now getting strained out.

I hate my other car, its a 2011. Take the 2007 and run, you won't regret it.

fakespike

Same would go for a 2008 TLS? There’s a beautiful white one in Orlando, 2500 miles away, with 65k miles on it for $16k. Is that a fair price for this car in your experience? And when you say you hate your 2011, are you talking TL or another type of car? I’ve also have been searching for a 6MT TL SH-awd but I’ve read about some issues with the 3.7 burning oil and eating clutches. The main reason I’ve landed on Acura over Audi/BMW is the (perceived?) Honda reliability and maintenance that is not so exorbitantly priced. Is the 3G a better built car?

Midnight Mystery

My 2011 is a Kia but I had a 2008 TL and Camry before that.

The 3G is a better car but the 4G is more of a big luxury sedan. Both are fantastic cars but the later 3.7 TLs did burn oil. It got bad for some, but for most, it just means occasional topping off.

Heck, my Kia burns a quart every 500 miles as of late.

DerrickW

Yeh, all true. As I said to a guy who was here looking at my son's Subaru bug eye a year or so ago, it had a KBB value of about $3500, son was asking $5000 & the guy was besides himself offering $3600 and me saying no way - "But book value is only $3500!" The value of something isn't what Kelly says it is, or what a dealership says it is, or NADA or anyone else. The value is what someone else is willing to pay for it.

Scottwax

As long as you can find someone who wants a manual. I got a smoking deal on my G35 because it was a manual and the dealership said they have a lot of trouble selling anything with a manual transmission especially if its in a 4 door sedan. Dealers want to move cars quickly, they don't want cars to sit on their lots for months waiting for that specific customer who prefers a manual.

Private party is always the best way to get the most money for a car with a manual transmission.

521ranger

Fakespike would you post the links for those TL type s cars your referring to?

seinfeld-bassline

A lot of them are out of this dealer: https://www.goldenautogroup.com/pre-owned-cars/Acura

I have noticed over the past 6 months or so they tend to seek out and horde cars like stick TL-Ss and then slap big stickers on them and see who bites. If anyone has any experience with them, might be useful to know how bad/good they are. As the two that went on BAT seem to prove, actual transaction, trading hands price of the nicest examples seem to be in the 15-17k range right now.

truonghthe

I had the Type S for awhile now but I seen the dilemma about the Type S being collector.


Things that against the TL-S

1. FWD for those living in the southern USA
2. Under power compare to IS350 and G35 of the same era that using 3.5 motor. Even more under power in term of modern car.
3. Type S is a good trim from Honda but does not have prestige and much power increase such as AMG, V Cadillac, M car, S car and F car from Lexus line up.
4. Most of the 3G TL on the market looks like they had seen better day since the car is now 11-15 years old car.
5. MT gear box doesn't like to be shifting fast.

Its a good car hence why I own so many of them, however I think this could be the end for my 3G TL game.

Midnight Mystery

So what? The star that burns the brightest burns the shortest?