doc30CL

Car and Driver has 2 Acuras in its 10 best list.

TSX = Made in Japan
RL = Made in Japan

TL = Made in America

The TL is not on the list.

RSX = Made in Japan

What gives?

vp911

i havnt read the article yet - but i suspect perhaps all the common problems? rattles? tranny issues? maybe not... not sure.

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

C/D's 10 Best Cars don't consider rattles, issues, and problems. They couldn't care less about where the cars are made in. Honda Accord has been in the list for 14 or 15 times already. The car has been built in the US since 1982 or so.

Look at other cars they picked, Dodge Magnum, Chrysler 300, Corvette, Mustang. They mainly look for fun-to-drive cars within their respective categories along with other factors.

deandorsey

what gives is that the G35 beat it.
it has nothing to do with where it is made, as long as the TL is fwd it will never be on that list.

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

They prefer RWD, yes, but there are FWD cars that made it to the list too. Accord and TSX are FWD. There are more FWD cars from the older days that made it to the prior years list, like Focus and Integra.

deandorsey

yes, but that is not my point.

this in the only car in that segment that has fwd.

and in every article they have written about the tl, (which this board has discussed a myriad of times) they voice their distain for the fwd layout in this car.

cM3go

Honda/Acura's Ohio plant (where the TL is built) is rated one of the best auto factories in terms of quality. Also, just an FYI, the auto tranny that everyone is complaining about, is manufactured in Japan.

Mizouse

my friends 2004 Accord EX was made in japan

cM3go

not possible, all Accords after 1989 were made in the US

Mizouse

his vin starts with a J

J RIDE 81

^-- Agreed

mickey3c

Not always a matter of the factory either.. It is the design.... The factory no matter where it is located cannot overcome a bad design... They only reproduce the bad design. A missing screw or clip is typically a manufacturing issue. But if they cannot put that clip or screw in because of the fit, then that can be a design issue, providing the parts are made to spec.

An inexpenive mass produced car is typically cheaper than some other models... period.. I am not saying the acura tl is cheap, but it does come in lower priced than the competing models (wait depends on what you say competes with this )...

To me that means an infiniti or lexus the more up-scale japanese counterparts.

Acura used to make two 3.2 engines and now only produce one. There was a slight suspension difference from the S to the non S as well as wheel size. Now there is just one.
This should mean greater consistency for the product since all TLs should be created equal.

If the parts are made poorly by a bad subcontractor, then you get the end result. I think they made the cars for ease of cost in manufacture assembly and not always looking at he reliability of the assembly in real life. I have seen this many times.

Sure something costs less is great for the manufacturer, but I have watched the cheaper versions of a product that was placed on a 24,000 volt line vaporize when it failed to maintain its insulation properties.

F23A4

Maybe his friend has a misbadged TSX that's RHD

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

I noticed some Accords have been built in Japan from US- and world-sourced parts, mostly the 4-cylinder ones. But still, most US Accords are built here.

Honda started building Accords in OH in 1982 (per hondanews.com).

kosh2258

The magazine isn't as objective as it used to be and this has gotten notably worse in the last few years.

I used to pay attention to their opinions and picks, but I don't anymore - they've developed too much of a bias towards certain characteristics and less to context of use than they did at one time.

The latest issue has a test of 6 competing SUV's (right there I've got a problem, it says CAR and DRIVER on the cover, not Offroading) and the vehicle they picked as the #1 is the new Grand Cherokee, simply because it had a Hemi in it and could outperform all the rest in a straight line.
Not withstanding the fact the GC has the lowest ground clearance of those tested, didn't tollerate the off roading very well by bottoming out and dragging bottom frequently, and got the worst fuel economy of the bunch. In a performance vehicle context that may be OK, but using the vehicle off road, which is supposed to be the intended purpose of a Jeep, it falls well short of acceptable performance, yet they rated it #1.

Sorry, but I can't even begin to buy into that type of rational.

So, from my perspective, Car and Driver has lost the credibility it once had. It still provides useful information, but I just ignore their conclusions these days and draw my own from the data.

Tecworld

It's not on the list because the TL is near the limit of having too much power for a FWD car. This is mostly true, as it would definitely handle better as a rear or awd car, and it makes sense. This also explains why the TSX is there. The fact that it has less power, lots of amenities, and costs less respresents a great, sharp handling car that's a good deal.

As for the G35 comment, I really wonder how the TL would do if they just switched it to RWD, considering it already outsells the G35 in its current state. I guess you can't have everything right?

jdone

C&D has never been objective. If you make a RWD car with lots of power they will like it even if it falls apart during the test. If the car is a BMW they will build an altar and worship it.

TexasCatfish

That's the truest comment yet on C&D. If BMW built a new SUV in the shape of a dog turd, C&D would say it is groundbreaking and brave.

vp911

that is sad. but now that i think about it ever C&D i have read always worships bmw :-\

Repecat

Funny, but very true. Their biases carry on regardless of who the reviewer is. Sad.

mickey3c

well car and driver (04) chose the g35 sedan over the tl for and 325 if memory serves for the best overall... The TL was the fastest in the group and the 325 was probably the best handling of all 3. I do not have the article in front of me so you can all correct as you want. The key thing is that you cannot hit everything perfect all the time. And you cannot be everything to everybody.

So with the added power for the G in 05 it would be interesting to see if acura fared any better. It seemed the suspension is what dinged acura, where they went got middle of the road vs more sporty. I would expect that if the G has improved its 0-60 times and the acura is unchanged except for some simple changes, then the results would be the same.

hey but lookie here...

http://www.caranddriver.com/default....ion_id=15&uc=2

If the link works, they do not even bother to compare the TL or G any more.. LOL

It is not a heavy weight a middle weight or a feather weight..

But back on topic.. All things being equal I would imagine that the G would have improved over last year.

F23A4

I just finished re-reading my copy of that issue last night and the TL was the quickest 0-60 and in 1/4 mile time (with the G35 running 1/10 slower but trapping the same).

But checkout the 0-100mph, 0-120mph and the midrange acceleration times. (Table not detailed on the C&D website; i'll post those times when I get home.) The G35 is definitely setup for highway storming.

mickey3c

Well I have noticed that the 05 G I have is a lot of fun on the highway ...

Ken1997TL

Not true. ALL coupes however have always been made in the US.

And I believe all 6 cylinder Accords have been made in the US.

Road Rage

What is the point of the post? - even if C&D were the pinnacle of automobile knowledge (which it isn't), where a car is built is meaningless. I had a lot of problems with my M3, more than any domestic or Asian car I have owned. What does it prove? Nothing. Hondas made in the USA have won many quality awards, and are consistently at the top of the heap in quality and freedom from defects. They sell nearly a half million of them a year, right?

mickey3c

does quality sell or image... I think more image when it comes to cars from what I can tell from the forum. I rarely hear anyone saying they hate the car. They love it... and do not care about the rattles, brakes, etc...

TL_BLUE

hey, is the Toyota Camry/Lexus ES series built in Japan or in America?

mickey3c

camry is the opnly lexus built in NA is the RX330 (or it will be soon)...

http://www.toyota.com/about/operations/manufacturing/

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

Camries are built in NA, ES300/330s are built in Japan.

F23A4

I believe you are correct.

Similarly on the Nissan front (re: Made in America), only two Nissans (350Z, Murano) are "made" in Japan and only one Infiniti (QX56) is made in America.

Seems as though Honda, Toyota and Nissan purposely assemble the majority of Acura/Lexus/Infiniti products in Japan for the sake of quality control.

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

I think it has more to do with volume and where the cars are marketed. The higher the volume in NA, the more eager the manufacturers to build the cars in NA also. They can save more on freight, supplier, and other costs. I believe by building the vehicles here, they get a lot of tax breaks too. But there must be exceptions as well. It also depends on the manufacturer's strategy and funding as well.

F23A4

....run with it man.

LessisBestmakingendsmeet

The Tl is built here because its only sold here. For all intents and purposes, its an American car. Car makers tend to build cars where either they will sell the most of them or where they can assemble them cheapest. That is why BMW and Benz built plants here as well, those SUVs are sold mostly here.
The QX56 is a 55k vehicle but it seems its built poorly. On the other hand, the Camry/Accord are built here and they are built very well.

GIBSON6594

RL is built in Japan, and only sold in America isn't it?

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

You're right. The previous TL was also sold in Japan as Honda Inspire and Sabre, but they're built in OH as well.

Nissan/Infiniti was struggling with quality and fit-and-finish in the past. They're doing much better now but some of their vehicles still show poor build quality.

I bet many people will disagree with me, but I don't think the quality of US-built Japanese cars is inferior to the ones built in Japan. It's just a fact that automakers are trying to cut the fat as much as possible, they actually cut the meat. It's happening with every automaker.

An easy example is with door panel and dashboard material. My 95 Accord LX door panels have soft padded vinyl while the new Accord panels are about 75% hard plastic. Same thing with dashboard. But the 95 was selling new at $17k while the new LX is selling at $19k. That's only $2000 increase of price in 10 years. The new Accord is inches bigger in every direction, has VTEC engine with 30 more HP but burn cleaner and more fuel efficient, handles better, more comfortable, etc while my 95 doesn't have all that. The new car just may not last as long as the old one, because of the cheaper material.

IMO, the TL is a rare case where the new car has better interior material than the old one.

OK, enough ranting.... My $0.02.

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

Acura RL = Honda Legend in Japan.

jdone

Camry and Avalon=Kentucky
RX330=mostly Ontario, a few from Japan still.

F23A4

Counterpoint: The Infiniti FX is built in Japan but only sold in North America.

TL_BLUE

i thought there might be a relationship between the rattling and the complaints against the TL due to it being built in America. I guess I was wrong because Camries are built here as well - so I guess its a Honda/Acura quality control issue.