Look What Poor Audi Owners Must Live With...
#41
Re: Re: Re: Re: Look What Poor Audi Owners Must Live With...
Originally posted by Nickerz
Sorry, I disagree!
I now own a '97 Civic and last week I went to the dealer and my girlfriend and I sat in the Audi 2004 A4. Out of the mouth of my girlfriend, "this feels cramped, it has about as much room as your civic."
YES, it's true the A4 is small and cramped and my Civic seems to be almost the same size. I didn't even bother test driving the A4 for this reason, instead, I test drove the A6 (which I really did care for either but had much more room) as the A4 was WAYYY too small and even for my girlfriend. She told me right off that she did not like it all.
Not the case with the Acura TL
Sorry, I disagree!
I now own a '97 Civic and last week I went to the dealer and my girlfriend and I sat in the Audi 2004 A4. Out of the mouth of my girlfriend, "this feels cramped, it has about as much room as your civic."
YES, it's true the A4 is small and cramped and my Civic seems to be almost the same size. I didn't even bother test driving the A4 for this reason, instead, I test drove the A6 (which I really did care for either but had much more room) as the A4 was WAYYY too small and even for my girlfriend. She told me right off that she did not like it all.
Not the case with the Acura TL
go find a civic and an A4 and compare the leg rooms...the A4 makes the Civic like the size of a CROWN VIC!!!
#42
I think I prefer when people argue over which car is faster or whose balls are bigger.
That you guys are getting this impassioned over an argument about the merits of Audi at best and the lifestyle implications of an in-car navigation system at worst, speaks volumes.
Audi makes a very fine car. I would put an RS4 or heavily (read 450 hp +) modified car against an R34/35 Skyline any day. Not to knock the Skyline, of which I am also a fan.
Reliability has not been Audi's strong suit. They seem to be stricken by catastrophic failures of the most minor parts. Temperature sensors, turbo ducting, etc.
If they were more reliable, I would have looked long and hard at the B5 platform S4, particularly an Avant. I enjoy driving my friend's S4, particularly when it is making proper boost. I find the TL drives very similarly to the S4 (at least on snows, can't really say about the dry), aside from the peakier power delivery of the TL.
That you guys are getting this impassioned over an argument about the merits of Audi at best and the lifestyle implications of an in-car navigation system at worst, speaks volumes.
Audi makes a very fine car. I would put an RS4 or heavily (read 450 hp +) modified car against an R34/35 Skyline any day. Not to knock the Skyline, of which I am also a fan.
Reliability has not been Audi's strong suit. They seem to be stricken by catastrophic failures of the most minor parts. Temperature sensors, turbo ducting, etc.
If they were more reliable, I would have looked long and hard at the B5 platform S4, particularly an Avant. I enjoy driving my friend's S4, particularly when it is making proper boost. I find the TL drives very similarly to the S4 (at least on snows, can't really say about the dry), aside from the peakier power delivery of the TL.
#44
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Look What Poor Audi Owners Must Live With...
Originally posted by SilverBulletCLS
Overall the car is just plain bigger. In some areas it is smaller but not by much. The Audi is about 10x built better than a Honda Civic. You can't compare the 2.
Exterior
Length: 179 in. Width: 69.5 in.
Height: 56.2 in. Wheel Base: 104.3 in.
Ground Clearance: 4.2 in. Curb Weight: 3252 lbs.
Interior
Front Head Room: 38.4 in. Front Shoulder Room: 55.1 in.
Rear Head Room: 37.2 in. Rear Shoulder Room: 53.4 in.
Front Leg Room: 41.3 in. Rear Leg Room: 34.3 in.
Luggage Capacity: 13.4 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 13 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 5
Civic 04
Exterior
Length: 175.4 in. Width: 67.5 in.
Height: 56.7 in. Wheel Base: 103.1 in.
Curb Weight: 2606 lbs.
Interior
Front Head Room: 39.8 in. Front Hip Room: 51.2 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 52.6 in. Rear Head Room: 37.2 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 52 in. Rear Hip Room: 49.8 in.
Front Leg Room: 42.2 in. Rear Leg Room: 36 in.
Luggage Capacity: 12.9 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 5
Civic 97
Exterior
Length: 175.1 in. Width: 67.1 in.
Height: 54.7 in. Wheel Base: 103.2 in.
Curb Weight: 2319 lbs.
Interior
Front Head Room: 39.8 in. Front Hip Room: 50 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 52.4 in. Rear Head Room: 37.6 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 51.8 in. Rear Hip Room: 49.3 in.
Front Leg Room: 42.7 in. Rear Leg Room: 34.1 in.
Luggage Capacity: 11.9 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 5
Overall the car is just plain bigger. In some areas it is smaller but not by much. The Audi is about 10x built better than a Honda Civic. You can't compare the 2.
Exterior
Length: 179 in. Width: 69.5 in.
Height: 56.2 in. Wheel Base: 104.3 in.
Ground Clearance: 4.2 in. Curb Weight: 3252 lbs.
Interior
Front Head Room: 38.4 in. Front Shoulder Room: 55.1 in.
Rear Head Room: 37.2 in. Rear Shoulder Room: 53.4 in.
Front Leg Room: 41.3 in. Rear Leg Room: 34.3 in.
Luggage Capacity: 13.4 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 13 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 5
Civic 04
Exterior
Length: 175.4 in. Width: 67.5 in.
Height: 56.7 in. Wheel Base: 103.1 in.
Curb Weight: 2606 lbs.
Interior
Front Head Room: 39.8 in. Front Hip Room: 51.2 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 52.6 in. Rear Head Room: 37.2 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 52 in. Rear Hip Room: 49.8 in.
Front Leg Room: 42.2 in. Rear Leg Room: 36 in.
Luggage Capacity: 12.9 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 5
Civic 97
Exterior
Length: 175.1 in. Width: 67.1 in.
Height: 54.7 in. Wheel Base: 103.2 in.
Curb Weight: 2319 lbs.
Interior
Front Head Room: 39.8 in. Front Hip Room: 50 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 52.4 in. Rear Head Room: 37.6 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 51.8 in. Rear Hip Room: 49.3 in.
Front Leg Room: 42.7 in. Rear Leg Room: 34.1 in.
Luggage Capacity: 11.9 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 5
Silver B...
You did not just spend your waking hours trying to convince me that the Audi A4 is soooo much larger than my Civic by putting all of the measurements on this post! ????
When I went and sat in the LITTLE A4 last week, no, I didn't bring my measuring tape. Damn, must have forgotten it at home!
Instead, I sat in the car with my girlfriend and felt, THIS CAR IS TOO SMALL FOR ME to spend the money that Audi is asking for the A4. To me it would feel like being right back in my Civic.
I will say though, I appreciate your attention to detail! I really do...I'm not being sarcastic.
All I'm saying though is the A4 is smaller than I expected, it did feel small LIKE my Civic NOT exactly the same. Hell, even the car salesman admitted this and that's why he showed me the A6, well that and it had a bigger price tag for him to make even more commission off of.
Either way, at this point, I'm still leaning towards getting the Acura TL as it does have PLENTY of room both front and amazingly in the back too!
AND I FOR ONE WILL BE GETTING NAVIGATION IN MY TL! YEP! I LOVE IT!
Wow, I started this thread and had no idea it would create such anomosity! I love it! Everyone getting involved, throwing hate at each other but it's all in good fun! We all love Acura and I even got a complete spec break down on Audi and Civic (both '04 & 97) YEAH!
Again, great stats Silver B! I like that!
Man, a couple guys got all bent out of shape over this thread, including me! Calm down guys, we're on the same team...ACURA RULES!
#45
Originally posted by Edward'TLS
Why buy an Audi ?
The answer is plain and simple - Quattro AWD system. Audi makes the best AWD system for cars. Unfortunately, Audi's reliability is one of the worst.
Why buy an Audi ?
The answer is plain and simple - Quattro AWD system. Audi makes the best AWD system for cars. Unfortunately, Audi's reliability is one of the worst.
#46
Originally posted by 00TLOwner
You are just shooting yourself in the foot. Nothing was taken out of context. Nothing was ommitted. Everybody can see that I quoted not just one sentence, but four.
You are just shooting yourself in the foot. Nothing was taken out of context. Nothing was ommitted. Everybody can see that I quoted not just one sentence, but four.
just chill bro....
#47
Originally posted by vandy786
YOu really are pretty slow aren't you? Perhaps a Geo Metro would fit your needs better than a fast car like the TL. The one sentence was a figure of speech. YOU LEFT OUT CRITICAL PARTS OF MY POST TO SUITE YOUR NEEDS. I'M THROUGH ARGUING WITH YOU AND ITS OBVIOUS THAT IT'S DUE TO A LACK OF YOUR UNDERSTANDING. GOOD DAY.
YOu really are pretty slow aren't you? Perhaps a Geo Metro would fit your needs better than a fast car like the TL. The one sentence was a figure of speech. YOU LEFT OUT CRITICAL PARTS OF MY POST TO SUITE YOUR NEEDS. I'M THROUGH ARGUING WITH YOU AND ITS OBVIOUS THAT IT'S DUE TO A LACK OF YOUR UNDERSTANDING. GOOD DAY.
#49
Originally posted by MB-telecom
Subaru also makes a great AWD system. I believe that they have been doing full time AWD for longer than anyone out there. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
Subaru also makes a great AWD system. I believe that they have been doing full time AWD for longer than anyone out there. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
#50
Originally posted by jdone
OK, you're wrong, it was Audi. Even into the mid to late 80's Subies were offered with fwd or a part time 4wd system.
OK, you're wrong, it was Audi. Even into the mid to late 80's Subies were offered with fwd or a part time 4wd system.
#52
holla!
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
From: New Haven CT
the only audi i have really ever been able to drive to its limits (or try) is an 2002 Audi S8. That being said, i feel the quattro AWD system is by far the best in the american market. Its true that it doesnt have any tweaking capabilities like the WRX-STI etc., but audi tweaked it so that this car could basically eat up anything like it was dry taramac. On the way to mammoth last year he was driving it in the snow like there was no weather whatsoever, and it my opinion, you cant feel the usual quirks of AWD when pushing it around corners. Now ive never driven a skyline, (maybe someday), but the audi quattro accomplishes preciscely its goal.... supirior all weather performance.
#53
Back in the 80's, there were some great cars with state-of-the-art 4WD/AWD systems such as Lancia Delta, Lancia Integrale, Ford RS200, Metro 6R4, Audi turbo coupe, to name a few. But these were no family cars, even if you could buy one. By the way, Nissan was still called Datsun at that time.
Audi has the longest history at building AWD system for cars. But Subaru is now catching up very fast. Mercedes has started to offer 4matic in most car model lines. BMW and Jaguar have also started to offer AWD systems in very limited car model lines. These are all cars you can go out and buy today, and can also drive your whole family around for pinics or dinners.
Back half a year ago, a car magazine (Car&Driver or Road&Track) did a comparison test on AWD passenger cars - Audi A4, BMW 330Xi, Mercedes Cxxx 4matic, and Volvo S60 or S70 AWD. The result was that Audi was still the best, followed by BMW and Mercedes, and Volvo was last. The reason why Volvo came last was that the AWD system permitted a fair amount of wheel slipage to occur before engaging the torque transfer - in other words, slow to response. This doesn't come as a big surprise, because Volvo doesn't have much experience building AWD for cars.
Audi has the longest history at building AWD system for cars. But Subaru is now catching up very fast. Mercedes has started to offer 4matic in most car model lines. BMW and Jaguar have also started to offer AWD systems in very limited car model lines. These are all cars you can go out and buy today, and can also drive your whole family around for pinics or dinners.
Back half a year ago, a car magazine (Car&Driver or Road&Track) did a comparison test on AWD passenger cars - Audi A4, BMW 330Xi, Mercedes Cxxx 4matic, and Volvo S60 or S70 AWD. The result was that Audi was still the best, followed by BMW and Mercedes, and Volvo was last. The reason why Volvo came last was that the AWD system permitted a fair amount of wheel slipage to occur before engaging the torque transfer - in other words, slow to response. This doesn't come as a big surprise, because Volvo doesn't have much experience building AWD for cars.
#54
BMW's began using AWD in the 325ix back in late 1987. Although we did not get it here, you could get a 525ix in Europe in the mid-90s. Mercedes had the 4matic back in the early 90s too in their E class too. The only manufacturers that I've seen totally committed to AWD have been Audi and Subaru.
#55
Why buy an Audi? To each his own I guess.
Lexus has been chosen as having the best Nav since they had it in 1998. German NAV is really dumb for those that use it. Screens are tiny too. They get the lowest marks. Infiniti and Acura fair much better. The new Tl has sweet NAV.
A guy told me this. We buy ALL our electronics from TVs to computers from Japan. Why the fock would anyone think a German made NAV could possibly be better?
Made perfect sense.
#56
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
And an Audi owner would say why buy an Acura? This was silly.
Lexus has been chosen as having the best Nav since they had it in 1998. German NAV is really dumb for those that use it. Screens are tiny too. They get the lowest marks. Infiniti and Acura fair much better. The new Tl has sweet NAV.
A guy told me this. We buy ALL our electronics from TVs to computers from Japan. Why the fock would anyone think a German made NAV could possibly be better?
Made perfect sense.
And an Audi owner would say why buy an Acura? This was silly.
Lexus has been chosen as having the best Nav since they had it in 1998. German NAV is really dumb for those that use it. Screens are tiny too. They get the lowest marks. Infiniti and Acura fair much better. The new Tl has sweet NAV.
A guy told me this. We buy ALL our electronics from TVs to computers from Japan. Why the fock would anyone think a German made NAV could possibly be better?
Made perfect sense.
#57
Originally posted by SilverBulletCLS
Sorry but where did you hear this test? Last I heard Acura was rated the best NAV not Lexus.
Sorry but where did you hear this test? Last I heard Acura was rated the best NAV not Lexus.
#58
The Lexus nav is good and they were the first to provide full nationwide coverage. Not being able to use it while the car is moving would drive me insane. The only European car company with a decent nav is Volvo. The screen rises out of the center of the dashboard and is literally in the line of sight so you never have to take your eyes off the road. The joystick is mounted on the steering wheel so you never have to take your hands off the wheel. There's a remote so that anyone in the car can use it. The biggest difference is that the Volvo system allows you to manipulate a trip that's in process. For example if you're on a highway and want to find a gas station ahead, you can search for facilities along the route and then add an additional destination without starting over. You can also add ten destinations and place them in any order you want so you can use the nav as a trip planner. The Volvo nav is made by Mitsubishi but doesn’t get reviewed a lot because, let’s face it, there aren’t that many Volvo’s out there.
#59
Originally posted by BarryH
[...Not being able to use it while the car is moving would drive me insane. ....The biggest difference is that the Volvo system allows you to manipulate a trip that's in process. For example if you're on a highway and want to find a gas station ahead, you can search for facilities along the route and then add an additional destination without starting over. You can also add ten destinations and place them in any order you want so you can use the nav as a trip planner...[/B]
[...Not being able to use it while the car is moving would drive me insane. ....The biggest difference is that the Volvo system allows you to manipulate a trip that's in process. For example if you're on a highway and want to find a gas station ahead, you can search for facilities along the route and then add an additional destination without starting over. You can also add ten destinations and place them in any order you want so you can use the nav as a trip planner...[/B]
So if you are on the road and want to change directions, you would have to pull over to stop your car and then enter the new directions for it to take effect?
Is this true for the TL?
#60
If you live in a one horse town then yes, navi is a total waste. But I live in Los Angeles and for the past three years have been using the Navi in my 02 TLS. I absolutely love it. I will never get a vehicle without Navi. The POI database really saves time in locating the nearest ATM or gas station. I think the navi is a very cool feature.
#61
Originally posted by thejavagod
If you live in a one horse town then yes, navi is a total waste. But I live in Los Angeles and for the past three years have been using the Navi in my 02 TLS. I absolutely love it. I will never get a vehicle without Navi. The POI database really saves time in locating the nearest ATM or gas station. I think the navi is a very cool feature.
If you live in a one horse town then yes, navi is a total waste. But I live in Los Angeles and for the past three years have been using the Navi in my 02 TLS. I absolutely love it. I will never get a vehicle without Navi. The POI database really saves time in locating the nearest ATM or gas station. I think the navi is a very cool feature.
I use a GPS/NAV constantly on my boat, I'm sure I would have all kinds of uses for a NAV in my car.
#62
Originally posted by Nickerz
So if you are on the road and want to change directions, you would have to pull over to stop your car and then enter the new directions for it to take effect?
Is this true for the TL?
So if you are on the road and want to change directions, you would have to pull over to stop your car and then enter the new directions for it to take effect?
Is this true for the TL?
Does anyone know if this is true? Read my post a few posts up.
#63
Originally posted by Nickerz
Does anyone know if this is true?
Does anyone know if this is true?
#64
Originally posted by BarryH
Acura's has always been touch screen and useable at any time. Lexus uses both touch screen and joystick and you cannot input information in the system when the car is moving. Volvo uses a joystick and lets you use the system while the car's moving. I'm not positive, but I think Nissan/Infiniti makes you stop to enter data also.
Acura's has always been touch screen and useable at any time. Lexus uses both touch screen and joystick and you cannot input information in the system when the car is moving. Volvo uses a joystick and lets you use the system while the car's moving. I'm not positive, but I think Nissan/Infiniti makes you stop to enter data also.
Good! But what if I'm enroute to a destination and then suddenly in the middle of traveling need to re-route to find the nearest gas station, I can do this without losing my original destination info?
#66
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 196
Likes: 1
From: Torrance, CA
Whatever....
Originally posted by vandy786
Who really does need navi? It's probably safer to stop on the side of the road and just read a map. Plus you will use your brain more. It's like calculators. Use it enough times to do simple calculus and soon you've forgotten how it all works and cannot do anything without a calculator. Just use your head. Audi makes some nice cars such as the S4 and people should not write them off because of no navigation. Also, another thing about navigation that drives me nuts is that you have to update the software and pay the dealer more money. Why bother? It's a nice touch, but totally unnecessary for most folks. Why if I ever ..... oh wait, what's that smell? Smells like smoke. I feel the flames coming.
Who really does need navi? It's probably safer to stop on the side of the road and just read a map. Plus you will use your brain more. It's like calculators. Use it enough times to do simple calculus and soon you've forgotten how it all works and cannot do anything without a calculator. Just use your head. Audi makes some nice cars such as the S4 and people should not write them off because of no navigation. Also, another thing about navigation that drives me nuts is that you have to update the software and pay the dealer more money. Why bother? It's a nice touch, but totally unnecessary for most folks. Why if I ever ..... oh wait, what's that smell? Smells like smoke. I feel the flames coming.
I hate to burst your bubble, but GPS can tell you where you are, without needing any external references ......in other words it tells you exactly where you are on the globe (steet name and all), even if a particular street does not have any street signs or markings with it's name on it ......do you kinda sorta see the benefit having this information available when driving??
Secondly, the Navigation System is particularly useful at night. Some neighborhoods do not have street lighting, to avoid "light pollution". (Palos Verdes Estates, CA is one such area) .........So you, with your paper map, will have to stop at every single street, get out with your flashlight, shine it on the street sign (assuming that it has one ) and then proceed!
If you're travelling in a strange neighborhood, and have the sudden urge to eat Chinese food, having the ENTIRE YELLOW PAGES AND WHITE PAGES OF THE UNITED STATES available at your fingertips, and then being able to sort this highly categorized info, in a multitude of different ways, does not hurt either .......I know the argument you're going to come up with, even before you can move your lips!! .......Yes, you say, thats what 411 is for. While 411 can give you the phone # and address in a particular city they cannot tell you which particular restaurant is NEAREST to YOUR exact location, of which the Navigation system is aware of at all times, to within an accuracy of about 30 feet! ......and neither can 411 give you a list of nearest services (such as gas stations, ATMs, banks, grocery stores etc. etc. etc.)
And, god forbid, if you should get stuck somewhere in a shady/sleazy neighborhood and need to find the nearest freeway, picture yourself parked on a deserted street peering endlessly at a map (screaming "stranger, here, come get me!")
........and what I've mentioned above is just THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG of the benefits of having a Navigation System.
FYI, I bought my MDX over the 4Runner Limited I really wanted, FOR IT'S WORLD CLASS NAVIGATION SYSTEM ......that should speak volumes for itself!! .......Remember all Navigation systems are not created alike!..... and when the accuracy and functionality of a Nav system are not perfect (or close to perfect) that's when it becomes a fancy electronic gimmick, WHICH THE ACURA NAVIGATION SYSTEM IS NOT!!
#67
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 196
Likes: 1
From: Torrance, CA
Sorry, I just had to reply to this post!
Originally posted by vandy786
...........Apparently you've never tried one either. A Navi is not always 100% correct as someone already posted in this thread as well as many others. Just use the search feature........
...........Apparently you've never tried one either. A Navi is not always 100% correct as someone already posted in this thread as well as many others. Just use the search feature........
...............Let me beat that into your head again: there are normal people who live happy, filling, fun, and satisfied lives and they do not have navigation. Hope you get it now. If not, I'll try my best to break it down to you once again.
#68
Re: Whatever....
[QUOTE]Originally posted by vicpai
[B]Since you don't have a Navigation System, you obviously don't know the capabilities and usefulness of a Navigation System .......You're probably one of those dilusional people that think it's just a fancy electronic map
Yeah vicpai!
That's what I'm talking about! Send that damn vandi786 back into his caveman hole along with his caveman MAP!
I still love the fact he can't live that stupid @SS comment of his down. huh...yeah..."It's probably safer to stop on the side of the road and just read a map."
HOW IGNORANT CAN YOU BE!?
[B]Since you don't have a Navigation System, you obviously don't know the capabilities and usefulness of a Navigation System .......You're probably one of those dilusional people that think it's just a fancy electronic map
Yeah vicpai!
That's what I'm talking about! Send that damn vandi786 back into his caveman hole along with his caveman MAP!
I still love the fact he can't live that stupid @SS comment of his down. huh...yeah..."It's probably safer to stop on the side of the road and just read a map."
HOW IGNORANT CAN YOU BE!?
#70
Originally posted by Nickerz
Good! But what if I'm enroute to a destination and then suddenly in the middle of traveling need to re-route to find the nearest gas station, I can do this without losing my original destination info?
Good! But what if I'm enroute to a destination and then suddenly in the middle of traveling need to re-route to find the nearest gas station, I can do this without losing my original destination info?
#71
Originally posted by svtmike
You guys need to chill a little. It's just a navigation system, nothing more, nothing less.
Mike
You guys need to chill a little. It's just a navigation system, nothing more, nothing less.
Mike
#72
Originally posted by svtmike
You guys need to chill a little. It's just a navigation system, nothing more, nothing less.
Mike
You guys need to chill a little. It's just a navigation system, nothing more, nothing less.
Mike
Ummm...being that it is a Navigation system, directed by satilite, giving you a lot more features than a paper map, would actually make it then more...not less...wouldn't it.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post