Acuralin

Hi guys,

I have few questions especially for the folks in Ontario, Canada as the other provinces or states (in US) may have different regulations.

So I got into this accident, the oncoming car was on the left turn lane and making the turn already when I was passing the intersection (driving straight), light was clear green.
I didn't want to hit him (as he was already in my way to proceed straight) and I turned right and drove off hitting a city post and of course compromising front bumper, wheels and rims when I drove over the curb.
The guy failed to remain to the scene but a very nice fellow chased him down and came back with this plate #. He said he would help telling police and insurance what he saw.

Now, it is very unlikely I could find here someone from Ontario (as insurance laws may be different elsewhere) but still your thoughts would be very much appreciated.

1. I know that in a left turn accident, 99% insurance will find at fault the driver who makes the turn. My case is a bit different though...what do you think? Will they find me at fault because I didn't actually hit the guy but chose to avoid him?

2. I just got a set of Michelin XI2 winter tires (~$2k), will the insurance pay for the same brand and model? Or they will pay for the cheapest winter tires on the market?

3. There are some "improvements" I have made recently to the car (such as aspec kit, tein shocks, remote starter etc) and installed all by myself. I haven't had a chance to report these changes to insurance. Do you believe they will treat the claim differently now?

Any info you can give me I will appreciate!

Catalin

csmeance

I'm sorry to hear about this especially on Christmas. Don't fret to much about it as you didn't do anything wrong!

1. I doubt insurance will find you at fault as you tried to avoid an accident. However, with that said, unless they can have the other person who turned left admit that they nearly caused an accident, the money to repair your car will come out of your policy.

2. The insurance company will only pay to replaced damaged tires, so they will probably put on one or two tires that were damaged (I highly doubt all 4 were damaged). They will put on the same type of tire (the IX2's you have).

3. The body shop will take this into account when the go to repair your car. As well if the improvements were recent, pull out your receipts and show them to the insurance company so they know that it was recent and you aren't lying to them.

Just as a word of advice, even though you wanted to avoid an accident, your actions weren't the smartest in the world. If there had been a person on the sidewalk you could have seriously injured them! The best advice that I have ever gotten is brake as hard as you can and if you are in the city, go straight.

Acuralin

Thanks csmeance.

I drove off the road because there was no one there, believe me or not I was very aware of the situation and I believe I was trying to avoid the impact. I am not sorry, if I hit the guy, maybe there was a child in that car which could have suffered life injuries, I am not sorry.

Anyway, just got off a call with insurance, they are finding me 100% at fault.
Sad, I believe I need an attorney now...

Catalin

guitarplayer16

iTrader: (8)

Wait, you're 100% at fault?

Sorry to hear!

You have the witness's contact information?
That will help for sure.

It's tough though.
What they say is if you avoid an accident and the other car is left untouched, YOU'RE at fault.
If you kept driving and another car hit you, THEY'RE at fault.

Just like if you hit a deer, they'll say you're NOT at fault.
If you swerved around the deer and lost control and went in the ditch, they say it's your fault.

Again, that's only what I'm hearing, though.

Btw you got ripped off on your XI2s.
They are NOT $2000.

Hell, they're $250 each from Canadian Tire.
4 tires = $1000
Add in taxes does not = $2000

Just letting you know, sorry.

big smooth aden

Sorry to hear that, I hope everything goes well for you in your situation with your insurance. Want year was your tl btw

LoveMyTL-S

Did you call the police and file a report? Was your witness there and also filed? Was the police able to find the person who made the left turn?

It sounds like since you didn't hit any other vehicle there is no way to prove you didn't just run off the road on your own. Until the person who made the left turn is found and brought to justice the insurance won't change their stance. In other words, it's just your word. The witness may be able to help with this though.

Moe5193

Sorry to hear that, I hope everything goes well for you in your situation with your insurance.

Jesstzn

Just my comment...


So I got into this accident, the oncoming car was on the left turn lane and making the turn already when I was passing the intersection (driving straight), light was clear green.


If he was in the intersection already then he has the right of way especially if he was there and stopped.

If he cut in front of you then its a different story ... but you already said he was there before you got there ... which will tell the insurance company you were maybe traveling to fast to stop in time.

LoveMyTL-S

If he was the ONCOMING car, then he has to yield to traffic coming straight through the intersection.

wojo1988

shitty situation. Id find the guys plates and where he lives and go there in person if nothing gets resolved of it. Personally I would of done the same thing but would of let him hit me, because you know its going to be hard since he was a dick and ran off.

Im in Hamilton Ontario and know how shitty the drivers around here can be. Sorry and I hope all works out for you.

Keep that plate handy

ALSO JESSTZN you are 100% wrong. It doesnt matter if he was already making the turn, he MUST yield to oncoming straight traffic. So no matter what the OP had the right of way, even if he ran a yellow, he still had the right of way. Its the oncoming left turn person who must wait until all is clear of it is a complete red to make his advance

Jesstzn

Hard to yield if your already in the intersection and making your turn ... If your not in the intersection yet and turning left .. yes you yield ..

flyromeo3

so yellow means go faster?


Ontario law: Whomever is turning left/right must yield to oncoming traffic.
In this case, both vehicles never came into contact.
Maybe witness can give a deposition of what he saw. Even thenyour insurance will end up paying to fix your car whether the other driver is at fault or not.
keyword: your car never came into contact with the other.

honestly, it would of been better for you if your bumper nick'd his when you swerved right.

aIRpeACE

iTrader: (2)

i am thinking the same thing that the insurance company will put you 100% at fault because this accident does not involve two parties and your insurance company will pay for ALL the repair. it's hard to argue the guy making the left turn liable for this since he's not really involved even he caused it. the insurance will pay for whatever damage on your car (you do not have to report any mod), just let the auto shop know you want to repair everything back to original and they will work with the insurance company. but like csmeance said, just brake your hardest and go straight (maybe swerve a bit) to minimize the damage

Acuralin

some more info...

the oncoming vehicle was waiting for me on his left turn lane until I got into the intersection and then he started moving, he basically showed up on my way out off the blue.
I have 2 witnesses + the police report which states that the guy didn't yield and hence I drove off to avoid collision. Interestingly, when I looked at police report, all N/A fields were crossed over but the charges field was left blank. Not sure, maybe this means charges are pending...

Also, after I open this thread, I actually called my adjuster (I had talked to claims department before), she also mentioned to me that I am 100% at fault until I asked her if she had the chance to talk to witnesses and police. She said no (what????).
Then I explained to her what happened and she said that it is now different and she will re-evaluate after she gets the police report + talk to witnesses.

I asked her, if it turns out all I said was true, would I still be at fault and she said probably not. My hopes came back now.

Catalin

Catalin

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Shouldn't be your fault, but you will still have to pay for the damages (your deductible) unless you have some incentives not used.

You need to get this stuff done. Let your insurance know about the situation today and call them everyday for an update.

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

straight from a cops mouth (he told this to me when I was the left turn car) that any accidents that occur when a car is taking a left turn then the left turn person is at fault all the time.. doesnt matter if the left turn car was in the intersection.. that is Pennsylvania .. also the left turn person gets a ticket with 2 points on their license as well

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

huh? Maybe your thinking of a different situation here, or I dunno maybe I am. From what I gathered the Acura driver was driving straight through an intersection with a green light. How can you say that a person turning through the intersection in front of him is not at fault? So your saying if your cruising down a road at 45mph and the light ahead is green, you must yield to any car thats going to turn through the intersection ahead of you? uhh yeah no.


Sorry to hear about this accident OP. It sucks that you were able to avoid a collision with another car, and because you did that now insurance says your to blame. Did police contact the driver of the other vehicle?

ez12a

At least in the US, i think it'll be very hard to get the guy to admit fault. Everyone's out for themselves and you should be too when driving on the road. Knowing the fact that the guy ran off isnt a positive character trait.

You should also be concerned about the damages to city property.

My mom used to work for SoCal Edison and auto insurance does not pay for broken telephone poles, and comes right out of the driver's pocket. Telephone poles are very expensive for what they are, let me tell you.

note: let this be a lesson learned, i know it's a knee jerk reaction but any time you have to avoid another driver and put yourself and someone else in danger of an accident just hit the guy. Do what you can to stop but dont swerve out of the lane of traffic to do so esp if there are obstacles be it cars, people, or poles. He would have been at fault 100% making an illegal left turn (illegal=unsafe)

at least in my understanding, the onus is on the driver making the left turn to determine if he can complete it safely. I know in driving school I was taught if a car (oncoming, driving straight) is approaching you at a high rate of speed while you are already making a left you damn well accelerate yourself out of the way. dont stop, or slow, dont reverse.

guitarplayer16

iTrader: (8)

My sister was involved in an accident when she was turning left at a four way stop.

She stopped, proceeded to turn, and an elderly lady who was oncoming didn't fully stop and just hit her. My sister was fully stopped when the lady was still meters away from her stop sign.

Other party even said to the officer "I didn't even see their car until we hit".

No tickets handed out and NO parties were at fault (determined 3 weeks later ugh).

Inb4 cool story bro.

Oh my story is about a four way stop.
You guys are talking about traffic lights.

Screw my story, then.

You guys gotta specify when you say at all intersections the left turner is all fault.

But yeah most of the time left turners are at fault.

wojo1988

yellow does not mean go faster, but no matter what, even if he ran the yellow and it was red halfway through the oncoming traffic still has to yield until all traffic has passed. Its a different story if the OP ran a red and got hit by oncoming traffic.

avs007

My cousin was in a similar accident... Being in the intersection making your turn, and an oncoming car hits you.... That is the definition of failing to yield to oncoming traffic.

When I was in college, my room-mate and I were driving in downtown... An idiot next to us turned from the wrong lane, and my room-mate drove up onto the sidewalk to avoid getting hit... He reported it as a hit and run, but the city ended up filing charged against my room-mate for damaging public property, (to fix the curb and signs), and said that if there was no "contact" with the other car, the accident was completely my room-mate's fault...

Sucks to be in that situation tho... Really feel for you and hope everythign works out...

Acuralin

From what you're saying, your room-mate didn't have 2 witnesses + police report (most important) stating the other vehicle obvious fault (or did he?).
I know police report may not matter for insurance but most of the time helps.

avs007

My cousin was the oncoming car. He didn't try to avoid the accident, he just nailed the other car, because he said he had nowhere to go without causing another accident...

There was a witness that claimed the other car was already in the intersection, but the police officer that reported to the scene gave a citation to the other guy for failing to yield, and told my cousin and the witnesses that being in the intersection and getting hit while turning left was the definition of failing to yield, because he didn't have time to safely cross the intersection. He said that he needs to have time to safely cross the intersection regardless of what oncoming traffic does. If you have to rely on oncoming traffic to slow down, you are not yielding.

I think the big mistake was trying to avoid the accident and getting in a different accident. As my other story went, if you try to avoid one accident and get in another, the second one will be your fault, at least in my experience. From my experience, unless contact is made with the primary vehicle, any accident you get into will be deemed to be directly caused by the secondary driver making an unsafe maneuver, such as a lane change, turning from wrong lane, etc.

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

Even at stop signs lieft turn is at fault unless the cop states otherwise.. and the opposng driver takes blame.. but that is like everything else with cops.. they can pick and choose how to help or screw you

avs007

^^ +1

Many moons ago, I was on a two lane road, in a no-passing zone with a double yellow... There was a cut-out in the double yellow, so I could make a left turn. No on-coming traffic, so I turned left... I got nailed on my driver's side door by the moron behind me that crossed the double-yellow to pass me on the left...

The cops said the accident was my fault because I should have checked my mirrors to see if there weren't people going the wrong way on the street... It didn't matter that the fool was making an illegal pass by crossing the double yellow. Normally, (in oregon anyways), you are supposed to pass on the right when someone is making a left turn.

My personal opinion was that was BS, becuase even if I checked my mirrors, the fool behind me could've cut out at the last minute to try to pass me, nailing me in the process.

Acuralin

Did you fight the ticket?
You cannot be charged for some one else's mistake, this is BS, unless you do a mistake yourself as well. But from what you said didnt seem like it.

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

^ you can fight the ticket but more or less the cop and judge screw you... i got in an accident.. no one was around, i just lost control of my car on a wet road.. f'ed up my car but nothing else.. I got a ticket because I was driving too fast during wet weather.. now speed limit was 35, I was doing 30.. i took it to court and told the judge.. the judge said it didnt matter how fast I was driving, I could have been driving 15mph but the fact I got in an accident I got a ticket for two points... cops and judges just want your money and they really dont care about anything else

jokerman826

Same thing with me, I got into a single car accident with a cement wall, only damage was to my car. Was doing 10 in a 50 (snow was bad). Cop told me he had to give me a ticket and to plead not guilty in court. When the date canme up he said he never said that and that i was going too fast for conditions, when he almost got into an accident himself trying to stop for mine. Judge didnt care, it was my job tomaintain control of the vehicle at all times.

Acuralin

But from what you are saying, you drove too fast for weather conditions and lost control of the vehicle, hence judge found you at fault because of what you did, not because what officer told you at the accident scene.
Was there any one negligence (driver or pedestrian) that caused you to hit the cement wall?
Please correct me if my approach is wrong.

1995hoo

I think a lot of you might be oversimplifying. Part of the problem is that the question is typically one of negligence: Who acted unreasonably such that his actions caused the accident? A further problem comes from the principle that you have a duty to avoid an accident even where the other person acted wrongly. In other words, the mere fact that a guy is making a left turn without yielding does not in and of itself determine fault. If the person approaching the intersection (to whom the other guy should have yielded) could have braked and avoided a crash, he will not be heard to say "that guy didn't yield to me." Similarly, if you were going too fast for conditions, or if you were driving at night without your headlights on, your own negligence will be taken into account in apportioning fault between the parties in most jurisdictions. (In four US states and the District of Columbia, your own negligence would prevent you from recovering.)

I can't say what sort of principle would apply in the OP's case because (a) I wasn't there, (b) I don't know all the facts, and (c) I'm not familiar with Ontario law. My point is simply that the mere fact that someone makes a left turn in front of you when he was supposed to yield does not automatically mean that the turning driver was at fault. It stinks, doesn't it? You try to do the right thing by avoiding a crash and you wind up paying for it.

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

According to he law if you were driving 1mph and got in a an accident due to inclement weather you would get a ticket.. no matter what.. i had the judge repeat it 3 times since I kept saying "really?"

as for the left turn.. the cop did not give me a ticket because he was being nice.. but he said they are supposed to give a ticket to the person taking a left.. no matter how fast, slow, or dickish the person driving straight is doing.. again no matter what

he was being nice to me because the kids in the car that hit me was driving fast... another witness told him, however insurance put it on me

Acuralin

Great news!!!

Just got a call from adjuster and she said, after talking to witnesses, police, hear team leader bla bla, she found me 0% at fault.

Thank you for the members who supported me and gave me valuable information.

Catalin