Hey there - after 12000 kms issue free, I have run into a few this week, so I am off to talk to the dealer.......wish me luck and I will let everyone know what their response is regarding the leather 'butt prints'.

Here is what I have encountered - anyone else??
- side mirror no longer tilts downward when in reverse
- driver seat memory not properly functioning 100% of the time
- front door panels (driver & passenger) have broken or improper clips that does not hold the panels together...open your door and take a look...see link below for picture

click here and look at the last picture on page one.....

http://www.cardomain.com/id/demellie

- and finally...the good old butt prints in the leather.

Have a great day....D.

 

I just don't understand how solid-state electronics can work "some of the time"... that baffles me.

 

hopefully i can answer some questions or shed some insight...

for the mirrors, are you sure you have the mirror adjustment pushed to the left or right? if it is in the middle, when you put the car in reverse, the mirror will not tilt, it will only tilt if the adjustment switch is in either left or right

driver seat memory is a known issue, there is a TSB out on it, what is your VIN? someone posted the VIN range that has faulty memory seat modules

as for the door panels, I'd demand the dealer replace those, there's no reason those clips should have broken, looks like they may have been improperly installed thus causing the clips to break

we all have butt prints, many have been successful in getting new seat covers, good luck in your endeavor to get this fixed

 

"I just don't understand how solid-state electronics can work "some of the time"... that baffles me"

It's called an intermittant and yes they are pretty common failures.

An example in digital circuits is a half level. A circuit can be designed so that it outputs a voltage level that switchs between 2 values to signify either a zero or a one. A semiconductor can have a failure where it produces an output that varies between one of the values and only goes 1/2 the way to the other value. The circuit receiving this signal sometimes will decode it correctly and sometimes incorrectly.

Having worked with computers for many years I've seen many intermittant problems, some that occured only ~ once a week or less - and that really sucks. I'd try to explain to the user what was done to fix it and that I wouldn't say it was fixed till it had run at least twice the normal failure interval without a problem, and that if it failed again not to hesitate in letting us know so we could try something else.

Yea I loved solid failures - you could see the problem and immeadiately knew when you fixed it. Intermittants sucked. Several times I fixed problems that I had never seen, sometimes on the first try, sometimes on the second, third ... try. Really preferred the solid ones.

What really made my blood boil though were the techs who would look the user in the eye and say "works fine now, can't fix it if I don't see it fail, call me when I can see it failing". Had some who worked for me that tried this approach and I didn't tolerate it. Had some who tried this on me and I'd ask to speak to their boss; I'd explain I had an intermittant problem that thier tech had just informed me cannot be fixed so I'd like to schedule a replacement for the defective unit (computer, car etc, it's happened several times). This has always produced a change of opinion from the tech and a course of action that resolved the problem.

Sorry if this rant is too long, guess I must be bored.

But yes many solid state products can fail some of the time.

 

Update - thanks for the responses....ALL PARTS to replace defective module/switch and door panels were ordered today!!!

As for the mirrors no longer tilting downward, cTLgo was right...they ONLY tilt down if the switch is NOT in the middle...easy fix

Here is the biggie now......there was a meeting up in Toronto last week and Acura has advised all dealers to hold off replacing any leather for the 2004 TLs or exchanging it with the 2005 TL leather. They will be addressing it shortly as the complaints have really come in regarding this issue. I will post a notice once I hear anything.

Take care...D.

 

Thanks for letting us know about this issue. Many are interested in this issue.

 

Novice...no problem......we are all in it together and the more owners that complain about the leather the better for all of us.

My Operations manager has been great with answering all my questions and hasn't steered me wrong yet. The one thing that we can take from this is that Acura is looking to address the issue properly....there is no band-aid for this issue.

D.

 

Demellie - Thanks for the update....My have a butt print mark but not too bad...

Acurazine has been the the beackon for all acura owners.

 

Intermittent. I agree with tommy's comments, with some adds.
Electronics can be affected by thermal cycles, especially in a car, where the interior temps can go from below zero to the mid 150's. A PCB or silicon chip can have a micro-fissure, and the circuit can lose continuity, then regain it, as the material substrate expands and/or contrcts. We have sprays that chill the board, just to check for that situation.

Automobiles are hostile environments - mechanical stress, high temperature swings, and the like.

Oxidized or physically compromised connectors can do it as well. The continuity can be affected by thermal variances. Although most critical connectors in cars today are well-designed, and often have a gas-tight seals, or some sort of dielectric grease to protect against corrosion, which can cause all sorts of intermittent problems. Since solid-state electronics operate with small voltages, they are proportionately more susceptible to small variations. many sensors operate at 5VDC or less - things like the O2 senor send out a voltage of 0-1VDC.

Cars that have been flooded, especially by brackish or salt water, are often "totalled" because the resulting corrosion to the wiring harnesses and connectors can cause a myriad of intermittent problems, and replacing them all is very expensive. Damn thing is, states like my dear Commonwealth of Virginia are very loose in the titling discipline, and cars that are marked as salvage in Flrodia domehow loose that moniker here.

Many cars damaged from Hurricane Andrew ended up at auction in Virginia, amnd were KD's - killer deals. The owner later found out the nighmare they bought, when all sorts of MIL's start popping up. When i inspect a car for someone, I find a low-lying coinnector near the fuse panel, and inspect it carefully - if I see green (representing copper oxide), i advise my client to run away - pronto.

 

You guys are incredibly knowledgeable -- thanks for the info! What you're saying makes total sense and definitely could explain the intermittent problems people are having.

 

I've had the same problem with my door panels before. Fortunately, that little area is of little concern to me but the top area where your elbow rests used to be loosely attached to my car, so they put on a brand new door panel.

All in all I must have gone through 4 or 5 door panels on the passenger side and maybe 3 on the driver's side. (mostly to fix rattles)

 

Update on the leather 'butt print' issue - just recieved a call from my dealer asking me to drop off the car so that it can be inspected by a Acura rep who is flying up to see the leather. The car goes in on Thursday!!!!

Hopefully we will ALL get some good news regarding this issue.......I will let everyone know what happens.

Demellie

 

G'Luck, keep us posted!

 

DeMille... please keep the thread going, a lot of us

are very interested in the outcome. There have been a lot of

posts from our American brothers on this, but this is the first

I have seen where an Acura Representative is addressing the

problem in Canada. As a Canadian owner I am very

interested in this.

TL42

 

I don't see a picture of the door panels in your pictures. Can you re-post that pic?

Gor

 

Gorron - picture is back up on the previous link - looks like the clips on the panel might have been broken when the car was undercoated - new panels have been ordered for me

 

Thanks Deme....hope I don't have that problem

 

DEMELIE

Good info so far. I am also interested on what this rep has to say. I have never had a car with leather till this one. And i have been in others that are like 5 or 6 years old and mine look like those already.. Wierd.. but i wonder if its a flaw or just the leather that was made wrong.. becuase i have seen some people here that say their leather is fine. i will post some pics when i get home so u can see what i mean. specially on drivers left side back support and left side bottom. But please if you can get names and actuall letters or whatever they say it was so we can have something to defend ourselves if we go and complain some more. I dont know i just want to see if they will change it or not.

 

Wow, looks like you are getting "special" treatment! Hopefully your leather is really bad so Acura will issue a full blown TSB to replace all 2004 leather covers with new 2005 2-stitch patterns (Anyone with 2005 TL compain about the leather yet)

I got 12,000 miles on my 04 TL already (in 4 months) and it is pretty cracked up all over the place.

 

Slava,

The leather isn't cracked at all.....I treated it with the product that Acura recommends ....big issue is the 'butt prints' that are left when you get out of the car...even the back seats are showing and I rarely have people in the back...looks like a combination of foam and perforated leather...this is my third Acura with leather and I feel it is the fact that they switched to the perforated type that is causing us grief.....I will let everyone know what they say as we really need to stick together on this issue ...L8R

Demellie

 

Acura Rep cancelled meeting due to illness - waiting for another appointment to be made - will update when this actually takes place.......this made a bad day worse!!!

Demellie

 

Guys...we all need to COMPLAIN to Acura on this leather issue. There is nothing inherently wrong with the leather...yes it's soft and supple, and also very comfortable, but the design of the '04 seat bottom is causing all these butprint issues. The fact that Acura recognized it, and changed the design to the 3 section in the '05 proves they are aware of the issue. What we need now is for thousands of people to complain loudy to Acura, and have them recall the '04 seat and replace it with the '05 design. Who knows how these seats are going to look in 5 years...not good IMHO. LET'S ALL LET THEM HEAR US LOUDLY!!!!!!

 

How? have you. were did you call.. what proof did u get of this. a letter? an appointment for checking up on the seats? let us know..

 

Hello ... update regarding inspection of the TL leather from Acura....I just recieved an email from Acura/Honda informing me that the Acura Zone Manager will be re-scheduling my appointment shortly - Maybe this will turn out to be my X-Mas present

I will keep everyone posted...my fingers are crossed.....

Demellie

 

You know... a petition at www.petitiononline.com might not be a bad idea. I started one a few weeks ago for a local community issue and it was featured in two large local newspapers and even got a few blurbs on the evening news.

 

Yes I did complain....to my dealer and the Acura representative for my area. They agreed that the seats need replaced. My only gripe is if they replace the leather with the same '04 design...that's the problem, and not the leather. We're still waiting for a reply from the "higher-ups" to determine which seat I'm going to get. If everyone complains..Acura listens. It's not going to do any good to have the seat replaced with the same '04 design..the same thing is going to happen again.

 

JetJock,

Let us all know what they decide to replace it with. Have you asked to have them replaced with the 2005 TL Leather?? A simple replacement here is not what we are looking for - we need a solution to the problen, not a band-aid!!!
I'n waiting for my inspection with the Acura Zone Manager to be rescheduled - I will make sure to let you know what happens with my leather.

Demellie

 

Everyone,

I have been talking to Honda Canada for the past two days and they are still looking into the issue of the leather 'butt prints' .

What we need to do as a group is to call and register a formal complaint - the more calls they recieve - hopefully this will force them to act quicker on this matter.

Acura Customer Relations
Mailing Address:
Honda Canada Customer Relations
715 Milner Avenue
Toronto, ON
M1B 2K8
Number: 1-888-9-ACURA-9 (1-888-922-8729)
Hours: 8:00 am to 7:30 pm Monday to Friday (Eastern time)

Acura US
BY PHONE
Monday through Friday, 6:00 AM to 5:00 PM Pacific Standard time at the toll-free number (800) 382-2238

BY FAX
(310) 783-3535

BY MAIL
Acura Client Services
1919 Torrance Blvd.
Torrance, CA 90501-2746


Demellie

 

I have a 04 Navi and had both front and rear seating leather replaced with 04 version. Although the new looked great at first, the honeymoon did not last long on the driver side. The "BUTT" print came back within 3000Km. On top of that, the leather is not as tight as factory original. It has to do with installation and no factory equipment to pull/tighten the seat cover prior to installation. Especially on the back seat, the leather cover is really shit. It is not the dealer's fault is they are not equiped with proper tools to R/I cover seat.

Will do more yelling after Xmas.

 

there are numerous complaints on this. was there any TSB issued? the dealer usually does not take the cost hit, Honda will.

my 04' has small print in drivers seat, but that don't bother me too much.

 

I went to my dealer for an oil change on Saturday and asked about the seats. The service rep told me that Acura told all dealers to hold off on replacing the seats since the problem will just come back, as we all have seen on this forum. He believes they are trying to come up with a fix, but wasn't sure. I will call the 800 number above and put in a complaint too. Thanks for the number demellie.
The thing I really do not understand is the 04 Accord has the extra stich design the 05 TL has, why did Acura not just use the extra stich design on the 04's.

 

ensley696,

I sat in an 05 TL while at the dealers the other day...same butt print issue found there too...the other thing I noticed was that the foam underneath was not smooth and it was 'lumpy'....I was not impressed.....the main thing here is that the seats do look like crap...the TLs are not the only vehicle to have this issues - maybe breathable perforated leather wasn't the best idea for seats after all......my 88 Legend had beautiful leather.

Lets see what happens...

Demellie

 

That's what I was wondering too. I had an 03 Accord for over a year before I got my TL and I never got a butt print on it.

 

just an update guys. i took my car for the seats and blown subwoofer. Sub replacing as we speak. i got rental and 04 tl white... nice.... but seats they say that its normal for the design they made. That they know of the prints and streches.. so i said. ok as long as you dont say its my fault at the end of the lease.. he said. no. no. its normal wear and tear.. now if they TEAR.. then its covered under warranty so dont worry about anything. we will replace it. so its ok. and i asked him to write in my ticket, that i complained and what he told me.. that way i have it on record. just in case.

ps// i have no idea if i am writting TEAR as in crying. or tear and in wripped. but i mean RIPPED. lol..

 

Fellow TLers......

It has been a long long road but I finally have good news to report!
Acura Canada finally agreed to change out the front and rear seat bottom leather/cushions. Acura is also looking at MAYBE having a fix for the 'butt print' problems - maybe in 2006!

As of today, the rear seat bottom has been replaced and so far things look great - had some 'big' folks sitting in the rear for trips and no problems - my fingers are crossed.

Anyways.....just thought that I would update everyone on this.....like I said, it took me months of complaining to both my dealer and to Acura Canada before they did anything.

I also found out that our interior is only under warranty for 3 years and is not included if you purchased the extended 7 year warranty.....so make sure you take note of this and have any repairs made before the three years are UP!!!

I also changed dealers as the original dealer was breaking more things than fixing them on my TL. So if you are having issues with your dealer..there is nothing wrong with moving to another dealer for service.

L8R

Demellie