6spMike

Let us know how it went!!
Mike

ninor

hey! starting it without giving it any gas and then giving it some gas when the rpms start dropping was fairly easy to me but then they started telling me to press the gas pedal at the same rate as i am releasing the clutch and i had few good starts at that and jerked it few times. which way is the proper way?

6spMike

Both are correct.
Thinking about it as holding the clutch, then adding a little gas, etc, makes it easier to learn, since you only have to think about one foot at a time.
It's really all about coordinating the clutch and the gas so the rpms stay around 1000 or so until the clutch is released. Doing both at the same time works too.
Mike

ninor

thank you! one stop light around my school campus where i was learning to drive is at decline and my car stalled twice when i tried getting it started in 1st. do i just apply more gas or what?

SouthernBoy

If you were on the decline, then as soon as you release the brake, you'll start coasting. If, on the other had, you were on the incline, you will need to add more throttle and slip the clutch a little more than normal to get moving and keep the engine from stalling. BTW, you should ALWAYS start off in first gear.

SouthernBoy

As you release the clutch (at the point of initial engagement) you should be ready to add throttle. Watch your tach and try to keep the RPMs around 1200 when doing this (assuming normal starts on level ground).

CanopyFlyer

I disagree with slipping the car in neutral, but not strongly, although with an automatic it is an absolute no, no. I like to keep the engine in gear until I'm just about to come to a stop, but before the engine starts to drag against the brakes. I will downshift as the speed falls off, just so that if I have to accelerate the drivetrain will be ready for it, but at no time does the engine take up braking duties. There is only one set of brakes on a car.

Most of the time when I ride with someone we come up to a corner they down shift the nose drops, then rises again as they hit the gas. THIS IS IDIOCY and what I'm really trying to warn against. Over time it really wears on everything from the tires, CV joints, transmission, clutch and even the engine (the journal bearings are being shocked in all kinds of directions and that isn't good.)

Someone mentioned a light flywheel as being a reason why you can't get the TL started without the gas and a lack of torque, sorry but the thread has become too long for me to quickly quote you, my apologies.

My reply is this; the second car I ever took on an autocross track was a 1985 Toyota Corolla GT-S with the 4A-GE 4cyl out of the MR-2. The 4A-GE was so high strung that it makes the TL's engine look like a diesel as far as torque output goes. I had absolutely no problems with getting the car going without using the gas. Also I did have a lightweight flywheel installed for racing purposes.

OMG absolutely do NOT start your car off at 1-1.5k rpms all the time. The jerking does NOT come from too little gas, it comes from engaging the clutch too quickly.

The "secret" to driving a manual is to find the engagement point of the clutch. If you practice starting out without the gas you will quickly learn where that point is and then you can start feeding the gas to get your starts much quicker. Take your time and PRACTICE, that is the only thing that will get you comfortable.


As far as how I learned how to drive a manual, my older brother taught me on his 83 (I think) Ford Escort, then I drove a Dodge pickup (slant 6, how many of you remember those), then a friend's dad taught me how to drive his Willys with a non-synchro'd transmission. If you think a manual TL is hard to master, just try to drive a non-synchro'd transmission, but after a while RPM matching and double clutching becomes second nature, I got to where I could shift it with my pinky finger. The more advanced techniques I learned from various professional driving courses. I've attended 4 over the last 20 years.

CanopyFlyer

Adobeman

OK, I'm not trying to confuse the issue or mess you up but try switching the VSA system off and tell me if you notice it being any easier to get going in 1st gear.

For a while I think there where a bunch of members that thought the VSA could be working against you if you get into a jerking (or "bucking") mode and cause more jerking. I tried it and didn't notice any real difference but then again I've been driving MTs for a long time.,

Could be BS or could help. I dunno. I just figured I'd share what I heard.

Keep practicing, you'll get there.

SouthernBoy

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my statement about slipping the car into neutral. I do pretty much the same thing as you do. As the RPMs drop close to idle, my speed would also be slow so I just move the shifter to neutral at that point. I never go into neutral at any kind of speed because I want to have control through the drive train as much as possible.

As for starting off at some given RPM, I advise this for normal conditions (as in not having to get moving quickly). Engage the clutch as quickly as possible with as few RPMs as possible, and do this as smoothly as possible. This all sounds mutually exclusive, but it isn't. When I say engage the clutch as quickly as possible, of course I'm not talking about banging the clutch out. What I am saying is do not slip (ride) the clutch for 5/6/10 car lengths before full engagement takes place. However, in order to engage a clutch quickly (again, normal conditions), your engine has to be turning rather slowly because if it is not, you will need to slip the clutch a bit before the wheel speed catches up to the engine speed. Lastly, you must strive to do this smoothly, which means no jerking and no stalling. Under normal driving condtions, I tend to use around 1000 RPM to launch from a stop. This will vary depending upon conditions of course. Sometimes, it is as low as 800 RPM, though not too often. And sometimes if I have to suddenly accelerate quickly, it's around 1500 RPM.

Anyway, it looks like you and I are pretty much on the same page with all of this.

CanopyFlyer

Complete and utter agreement. Looks like you and I went to the same school of driving.

Ninor, you are getting some very good advice in this thread. The problem will be how you interpret it.

If you remember anything, remember this, anytime your foot is on the clutch pedal you are causing expensive wear to your car. The trick is to use that pedal as little, as quickly and as smoothly as you can possible do it.

Oh one other thing point that I have not seen on this thread.

THE CLUTCH IS NOT A G$K D@#N FOOT REST. Keep your bloody clodhoppers off of it till you need to use it.



CanopyFlyer

vector7777

Having been in your shoes a year ago with my 06 TL, I want to add that this is all great information. However, be careful not to overthink all of this...at some point for me it was better to "just do it" and everything flowed. The more I thought about the rpms and car-lengths I was slipping the clutch, the more the car jerked and the higher the launch rpms. The less I think about it, the smoother everything goes and the less wear on my car. This info can create a great foundation. In the end, just breathe, take your eyes off the tach and just go.

My

Good luck!

SouthernBoy

Yes, it may appear to be a bit much for starters. But the way I see it is he is getting a good dose of info from which he can draw as he learns. Sometimes it's hard to find a collection of information such as this in one place. The worse thing for newbies to manual transmissions is getting the wrong information and since they have no point of reference, to them it will appear to be the right information because they don't know any better. This is especially true when it is a close friend of a family member who "teaches you how to drive stick". Then this bad information turns into bad habits which become hard to break.

So perhaps it is really a good thing that he gets a lot of this up front so it will serve as a good grounding for his development. Anyway, I'm sure he'll do just fine.

ninor

first of all let me thank all of you guys for providing me with such valuable information! i went driving around my street by myself today and i didn't stall or jerk the car once in about 30-40 starts then with my moms boyfriend in the car we drive around for few miles and only criticism he had was that i do not "start controlling the car too fast" with which he means that when there is a car on red light ahead of me i wait for too long to step on the break, step on the clutch and get the car in neutral. so far he has been teaching me to put the car in neutral when approaching stop light/sign until i completely get comfortable with downshifting which i have done in few turns. i am pretty confident now that i got the starts down, i just have to learn how much breaking to apply now before i down shift in next lower gear so i rpms do not jump up too much and also to get my left foot more loose and comfortable with it's new buddy, mr. clutch. i will be practicing with him this week 1 hour every night and by next monday i will hopefully be able to drive by myself and then after few weeks i can maybe start getting into some "advanced techniques"

once again thank you guys and i am reading this thread over and over while pretending i'm driving a car right here at my desk lol