6speedv6

IS250 vs. TSX ... DAYUM !!! You got to get that to the L forums LOL.

Now, IS350 vs. TL Type-S ( ) , that's a comparo I'm wishing for.

SebringSilver

That's all that we, as car buyers, really can do. Just because some of the car-buying public may have more financial resources than others doesn't necessarily change the needs that they have as car owners/users. A family of four looking to buy a 4-door sedan isn't suddenly going to accept a car where the back seats are only usable for very short durations, in my opinion, regardless of whether they were planning on spending $25,000 or $40,000 on that new car. And for those who really aren't concerned with the practical side of those back seats, there may not really be a need for a 4-door to begin with.

I'm not knocking the IS, but Lexus (either intentionally or inadvertently) has set their sights on a very very narrow segment of the car-buying public with this car.

Minarets

imo, it really is a fancy TSX...

and the IS comes with leather--but for the extra you can get preferated leather with ventilated seats and heaters.

i was too, really excited about the IS...it has Lexus quality...best in the market...and good gas milage for the power it has, plus you knew fit and finish were there....honestly after driving both, i dont see how anyone can really make the claim that the interior is cheaper or lacking quality. its the best in class imo...however , the deal breaker was the backseat. too small for me. other then that, there really isnt anything worng with this car--other then it is more then i wanted to pay

agian, with that price, you are paying for a better sound system the the ELS, heated and cooled seats, lexus quality (which to some means more then others) and more horses--for about 6G's more in MSRP...

also remember...some of you are paying $38 ish with ASPEC wheels and kit...so about a $3or 4g difference....and dont bring the "well i got mine for $32,000" in the arguement...the TL has been around for 3 model years now...when the IS has done the same, you wonnt be paying anywhere close to MSRP either

ericajackhannahjamie?

I believe in the next year or two, the IS350 will have 6MT. 350 is a new engine, so I believe they're testing how the engine will run and eventually will add a MT into it.

sweatinmyac

What makes you say that? Did you read that somewhere or just speculation?

6speedv6

I don't think any Toyota engine, or product for that matter, needs any testing once they decided to build it. Besides, Acura did offer 6MT a soon as the model came out. It's not like Toyota would build a mediocre engine, put it in such an iconic car, and sell it for 40K. It's a matter of targeted marquet. Most users here seen to agree that strategy can become a costly mistake.

simont53

I think that manual trans on this type of car a going to ba a thing of the past , the SMG and other paddle shifters are getting that good.

6speedv6

Yes, but it will take the rest of the automotive market at least 10 more years to make a paddle shift auto as good as BMW's SMG of Ferrari's tranny, as light as a conventional manual, and at a price the average driver can afford.

simont53

I agree, although the shift on the new IS was pretty good

ttliang

holy * the back is so small i don't even think my kid's skinny chicken legs can fit in there comfortably behind the driver seat (reminded me the BMW 3 a couple of models back not that the current 3 is much better). it did look bigger in the pictures. maybe i can sit my kid side way like in one of them trucks 2+2. i honestly think corrola's got more room back there without looking at numbers. IMO, i think the BMW 3 beater mantality was the self-created pitfall. it still don't drive like a M3 but got all the short-comings of the 3 series.

xX24Xx

Here is a list of the standard equiptmend on the IS350. I deleted some stuff, because its obvious it has it, and I dont want to troll. There are people bashing this car making statements that are completely false. The least you can do is RESEARCH before you bash.


Luxury Features

- Metallic-finish interior trim

- Leather-trimmed interior

- Leather-trimmed steering wheel and shift knob

- Steering-wheel-mounted cruise control, audio and display controls

- Tilt-and-telescopic steering column

- Lexus 13-speaker 194-watt [5] Premium Sound System with Automatic Sound Levelizer (ASL) and in-dash, single-feed, six-disc CD auto-changer

- MP3 audio input plug

- In-glass antenna with FM-diversity system

- 10-way driver's and front passenger's (including lumbar) power seats

- Height-adjustable headrests for all seats, including rear-center

- Dual-zone automatic climate control with interior air filter, smog sensor and automatic recirculation mode

- Power tilt-and-slide moonroof with rotary dial adjustment, one-touch open/close and sliding sunshade

- Power windows with one-touch auto open/close feature

- Remote-linked window and moonroof opening

- Retained accessory power for windows and moonroof

- Electrochromic (auto-dimming) inside rearview mirror

- Power door locks

- SmartAccess with push-button start

- Center console with sliding armrest, storage bin and accessory outlet

- Foldable front-door storage pockets

- HomeLink® universal transceiver to operate compatible garage, gate, home lighting and home security systems

- Illuminated entry system

- Electroluminescent instrumentation with startup sequence

- Interior electronic trunk-lid and fuel-filler-door releases

- Lexus Personalized Settings (LPS) [6] to personalize electronic functions

- Automatic on/off projector-beam headlamps with 30-second delay

- Dual chrome exhaust tips

- Trunk pass-through

- Carpeted floor mats


Safety and Security Features

- Driver's and front passenger's advanced airbag system (SRS) with front passenger's twin-chamber airbag [7]

- Front seat-mounted side airbags (SRS) [7]

- Front and rear side curtain airbags (SRS) [7]

- Driver's and front passenger's knee airbags (SRS) [7]

- Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) [8] CANT TURN OFF

- Traction Control (TRAC) CAN TURN OFF

- Brake Assist [9]

- Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD)

- Lexus four-sensor Tire Pressure Monitor System [10]

- Highly rigid body structure with front and rear crumple zones

- Side-impact door beams

- Reinforcements in pillars


MSRP is $35,440.00 rock bottom with everything above included. $38040.00 with premium package that includes 18" wheels, Auburn bird's-eye maple interior trim, perforated leather-trimmed interior, and heated and cooled front seats ... with delivery cost.

Fully loaded with every option under the sun costs $40,784.00. Im not sure if that includes the Mark Levinson audio. I have heard that the ML audio will be an additional cost. The maple wood trim can also be switched with the aluminum trim that it originally came with. Seeing as how this car is brand new, there are people waiting 3-4 months specialty order.

There isnt any plans for 6MT on the IS350 yet. If consumers have a high demand for it I'm sure they will put one in. That is usually what everyone does ... testing the market out. Acura waited 2 years to do a MT. I read in a Lexus forum that the auto tranny has something to do with it being a ULEV II auto. Could be BS.

Performance wise the IS is obviously ahead of the game. The BIG difference to me is RWD opposed to FWD. Oh yeah, and prices just might go down in a year or too. Just my

xX24Xx

Bump

ronlarimer

Your fully loaded option is off by about $4500.

This is one I just built on the Lexus site...

Base MSRP* $35,440.00
• Standard Features
Available Packages
$8,899.00
• Luxury Package with 18-in wheels with Additional Options
- Luxury Package with 18-in wheels
- Navigation System/Mark Levinson® Premium Audio System Package
- Intuitive Parking Assist
- Preferred Accessory Package (includes Cargo net, Trunk mat and Wheel locks)
Accessory Options $0.00
• Intuitive Parking Assist Included
• Preferred Accessory Package (includes Cargo net, Trunk mat and Wheel locks) Included
Delivery, Processing & Handling Fee†
$590.00
Total MSRP** $44,929.00

caha14

You are both correct in your own way. I just tried 3 different zip codes and got 3 different "fully loaded" prices. It seems like the "build your own" feature only looks at inventory available in a specific area and doesn't show all the extras that are really available from the factory. For instance, I couldn't get Mark Levinson to show up, but only the voice-activated navigation. More interestingly, if I punch in a south Florida zip (33133), the priciest IS350 available is $36,944.

So, perhaps Edmunds or carsdirect is the only place to to truly get a fully loaded price, but I don't feel like it right now...

BUD001

I am in the same area as caha and i got the same results. I am waiting to see the Lux package to come out and compare it. I am looking to buy either a TL or an 2006 IS at the end of the year.

ed99

The new IS is well over priced I think. Especially when both don't have MoonRoof and HID's standard like our TL and TSX. Even the BMW 325i has HID's as a standard feature. I think Lexus is just trying to rip off ppl to pay $3500 extra just for both of these options. THe new IS is a very nice car and well finished. The only complaint I have is the high price and options which is totally ridiculous. YOu can see many Lexus forums that thinks the price is way too high. Other than that the car is pretty slick.

AcuraGT-3

Seriously, the new IS trumps the TL and the TSX. Hell the mags think that already to the TL. And my God, 100% MADE IN JAPAN, not some American made quality nightmare like the TL.

Of course Lexus is overpriced to most here, most Acura owners buy for value (i.e cheaper), not because the car is better.

Compared to the IS intended competiton, BMW and Benz, the IS is cheaper and a true value. Compared to a value brand, Acura, of course these 3 brands seem more expensive.

123456SPEED

I was anticipating the IS coupe version (out in a year) but I now realize this is a kids car. And with no 6MT with the 350 is another big reason I wouldn't be tempted. As a coupe buyer in the mid price range there's nothing out there. infiniti G35c too small (but great looking) and not luxo enough. Lexus SC is ugly. only hope is the to-come BMW 3 coupes and any new Acura coupe, At least with BMW we know it is being built.
I know manufacturers see coupes as not that important since it's a small market.
Glad I snatched up my 03 CLS 6MT, still a great car for me.

n1976jmk

123456 speed,

when I shopped for my 06 TL last month and sold my 03 CL-S, alot of the Acura dealers told me that most luxury car companys are going away from the 2 door luxury cars, because there is not enough of a market for them, they are all making the 4 dr luxury cars that are sporty enough looking and quick enough.....

Just stating what i am hearing from some dealers....

R J Poseidon 6

Is that why the Bentley Continental GT is their most popular car ever!

Or why BMW had to bring back the 6-Series?

Or why Bimmer is also making a Z3 Coupe?

Or why the Skyline GT-R will be state-side in '07?

Or why Porsche is making the Cayman?

R J Poseidon 6

+ Nissan's interiors are still too plasticy.....

6speedv6

Went to a Lexus dealership and drove a 250 - fully loaded /w navi and everything. It was Auto with AWD and came with 17" wheels. Price was $38,550. I was not impressed. The car looks nice, a logical evolution of the previous car, which now just happens to be a baby GS. The car does moves OK, but there is no power kick anywhere in the powerband, unless the car downshifts when floored, which it does even in manual mode ??? WTF ??? It does corners relatively flat and has a nice ride. Engine noise is almost absent, and even when reaching 5 or 6k rpm's it's barely noticeable. Interior space, well, I am 5'11" and if I am driving, my 45 pounds 4.5 y/o kid can't sit comfortably.

Ohh, and since the car was AWD, it has the weirdest HUMP just behind where the right foot rests coming out of the center console that touches the mid-right portion of the rear of your leg, which makes driving a very strange experience. It's like your foot is "trapped" by the car.

Maybe a 2WD 350 stick for less than 40K would be something I'll consider. But then there is the comfort and passenger space issue.

It is well executed machine. Not for me.

mkaresh

Try steering a TSX or TL with the throttle. There are some things you need rear-wheel-drive to do. The IS steers very nicely with the throttle...at least until the VDIM takes all of the wind out of the sails. In constrast, the stability control system in a BMW is almost transparent. Why anyone felt there was a need for a more intrusive system is beyond me.

IMO, the interior in the IS is easily the nicest in the class in terms of styling and materials. The center console is high, which some people will love--as it gives the car a sports car-like driving position--while others will hate.

I'm 5'9, and I can sit behind myself in the IS. Barely. So the usefulness of the rear seat will depend on how large you are. I suppose that seems obvious, but not everyone is 6-feet tall with similarly tall rear passengers.

For thorough price comparisons with user-selected features, try my site: www.truedelta.com. I don't know of any other like it. A caveat: in my part of the country at least Lexus is shipping all IS 350s with Lux Pkg, Nav/Levison, and obstacle detection, for a total of $44k. All of the configurations my site permits might not yet be avaialble.

vtecracer

Acura is no more of a value brand than Lexus. Acura is a value brand compared to the Europeans just like the Lexus is.

Speaking of quality, I'm sure you frequent the Lexus forums often... Tell me how good the quality is on the new GS. It's actually surprising to see the lower level of quality on the new GS. Being that the IS is cheaper than the GS, I'm almost afraid to see what kind of corners have been cut with it. BTW, has Lexus been able to design a headlight for the GS that doesnt build up condensation yet?

Here is what Car&Driver had to say about the TL: "The materials and the fit quality are impeccable."

The Acura TL is the second best selling car in it's class. When your selling in high numbers, your bound to have a percentage of cars that have a few rattles here and there. You have to look at more than just numbers. The last IS was only selling in the hundreds every month during it's last couple of years; a failure compared to sales numbers of other cars in it's class. Sure it looks nice when you can say only 100 IS's sold from the entire stock sold this month have reported rattle problems. But when you only sold 500 or so IS's that month, how good does that number really look? Four, five, six times the numbers of consumers were willing to pay the extra few thousand for the Acura TL than they were for the Lexus IS. Heck, more people were willing to settle for a 4 cylinder TSX than an IS. So what is it then, people are paying more for an Acura that is a "quality nightmare" than a Lexus? Get off your high-horse and come back when you have something of value to say.

03CoupeV6

I'm in the bold, of course.

vtecracer

Acura does not have a widespread problem with condensation building up in the headlights like Lexus does with the GS. So to answer your question, YES.

The most mention problem with the TL seems to be rattles. Compare the number of people that complain to the number of members here.

The best selling car in this class is the BMW 3 series. The Lexus ES330 is trailing behind the TL by a good amount.

Like I said, the more expensive TL outsells the less expensive ES.

If you don't believe that Acura is competitive with Lexus, than I really need to ask who is living in the delusional state here.

mickey3c

[QUOTE=vtecracer]Acura does not have a widespread problem with condensation building up in the headlights like Lexus does with the GS. So to answer your question, YES.

The most mention problem with the TL seems to be rattles. Compare the number of people that complain to the number of members here.

The best selling car in this class is the BMW 3 series. The Lexus ES330 is trailing behind the TL by a good amount.

Like I said, the more expensive TL outsells the less expensive ES.

Have you priced an ES lately??!!! I would say the less expensive TL outsells the more expensive ES.

mkaresh

Acura recovered from its early 1990s slump by offering more content at a lower price relative to Lexus, much less the Germans. A Lexus is always priced several thousand dollars higher than a comparable Acura. Infiniti intially tried to price higher than Lexus, but in recent years falls somewhere in between the two.

If anyone really wants to know the price difference between two models, I have the tool for it (see sig). I entered a whole pricing database, but I still often find that my seat-of-the-pants sense of price differences is off the mark.

123456SPEED

Besides Honda's wish for fuel economy with front drive and 4-6 cyl engines, I thought FWD cars were cheaper to produce than rear wheel drive which helped keep Acuras cheaper.

Also - Acura has no problems with leaky headlights?
ask any G2 CL owner, it's a problem with both of my 03 CLS I've had.

vtecracer

[QUOTE=mickey3c]
An ES starts from $32,300. TL starts from $33,325.


123456Speed, I wasn't aware that the 2nd gen CL had headlight condensation problems. The Lexus GS 2nd gen AND 3rd gen both have the same problem. Not sure about the 1st gen.

I'm not trying to start a war here saying that Acura is the best luxury car company out there... But when someone throws out BS like Acura can't compare with Lexus, I will throw out the numbers and reveal the dirt. I've already posted a few links regarding quality issues with the new GS. Anyone can do a search on my name to find them.

quake97

The paddle shifters look damn cool!

Joe

priggly

The Lexus IS was obviously designed for MiniMe.

ed99

Acura should come out with an A-spec 330hp 315lb torque 3.5litre V6 AWD to compete with the IS350.

mkaresh

With the amount of torque steer produced by the 3.2, a 3.5 with six-speed seems a bit scary. Magazine comparison test results can be predicted in advance.

Base prices are a sloppy way to compare prices. You need to compare with similar levels of equipment.

Use my site and you'll find that the TL is $1,200 to $2,000 less, depending on equipment levels. The Acura has nearly $2,000 more stuff standard.

mickey3c

[QUOTE=vtecracer]An ES starts from $32,300. TL starts from $33,325.

Let's talk real world here....

You cannot get a lexus out the door for 32,300 where you can get a TL for that easily after some bargaining. The lexus base price is 32,950 with no options and destination. Throw in a few options (without navi and high end wheels) and you got 37000. And well equipped for 40,000 or more. The non navi tl is 33940 with destination. Then you do the deal from there. If you can find a totally stripped ES300 at a dealership then I would be amazed... They buy them typically in two popular options packages which pushes the price well beyond a navi tl for a non navi ES.

vtecracer

[QUOTE=mickey3c]From personal experience, an aunt of mine got her ES for $31k out the door in CA, and it wasn't bare bones. Its ridiculous to assume that you can bargain on an Acura but not a Lexus. I'm not trying to bust the TL's balls here by saying its more expensive than the ES. MSRP wise, the TL is more expensive. As we all know, most consumers who car shop don't do as much research about a car as we do here. There research pretty much ends at knowing what the MSRP is along with looks and equipment. So really, all this yabbering I've been doing this past couple of days is just trying to enforce the fact that Acura is VERY competitive with Lexus and those that don't think so, seriously need to wake up.

mickey3c

ok we're talking an 06 now... It is just as equally ridiculous to think a car listing for 37,000 will go out the door for 31,000 and that this is a cash deal and the total deal. Not to bust them either, but I'd like to see the ES similarly equiped to the Tl sell for less than the TL.

I would say the lexus is better made then the tl but drives much differently. Yawn for the ES330 which I suspect will become an ES350 some day.

BUD001

There will be a new ES out in a year or so. When there is a new Camry theres always a new ES not far behind. Plus Lexus is predictable: at the end of the model run the special editions come running out. Right now the ES has a "black diamond" version.

I am a neutral observer here (since i am a Mercedes owner) and i read this thread with a bit of interest (although i have to say hasn't this Acura v. Lexus thing has been repeated on numerous threads on both brand's message boards).

I am currently thinking about buying a 06 IS or a TL to replace my 01 Merc by the end of the year (car buying is something i drag on a bit, do some research and repeat my test drives... afterall i am stuck with it for a while after i plunk my money down). Its going to be either a IS 350 with Lux package or a TL Nav/AT.

For me,the Lexus is a true rocket. Its very fast, and the styling is cool, and its rare (so far). It has a comfortable cabin (i am a single guy so my back seat is more an extra trunk) and the amenities available are impressive, some of them isn't available in Acura (power tilting/telescoping steering wheel, ventilated seats, and 10-way pessenger seat). It is also rear wheel drive to, which i am very used to (my previous cars were rear wheel drives). However, the IS is also smaller, and for $40K ($36k base plus $4k luxury package) i would not get Mark Levinson (premium stereo) or Nav.

Moving onto the TL. It has been here since 2004 and is hardly uncommon. It is in its third year of production so at most my car would look up-to-date for another 3 (or maybe 4) years. (Lexus keep their model looks for a while so if i get a 2006 IS now the next gen wont come at least for 5 or 6 years). The board is also filled with minor but niggling quality complaints. It is also front wheel drive, which means it is prone to torque steer. However, the TL is spacious, has a lot of trick electronics, a great sound system standard, and the soon-to-come iPod kit completely suits my needs. And the best part of all is, from reading the board, i can tell i can press my dealer into a hefty discount and get the 18 inch rims and still have cash left in my pocket for a shopping spree at Saks .

So, Lexus is rare, new and fast. TL has a lot of trick toys and is a lot of car for the $$. I cannot choose...

mkaresh

What do you care about more?

Basket 1. Rear seat room, low price

Basket 2. Handling and features

I'm guessing that you're having a hard time choosing between low price on one hand and handling on the other. If you want low price with handling, that's what the G35 is for, but then you lose out on interior ambiance.

I personally don't see the current TL aging quickly. To my eye it remains a striking design, and doesn't have any trendy details that would accelerate the aging process. The Lexus is newer and will likely remain rarer, but less distinctive. I find it attractive, but not striking, and most people likely won't even notice it.

A bonus with either car: either one will hold value like a champ. A friend of mine just bought a 2002 IS 300 with 40k miles for $23,000. Which I feel is crazy high, but there you have it.

BUD001

The G is out of the question for me because it does not come with an iPod jack (or an AUX jack) and i like to play music everywhere. But you are right, both are residual value champs.

BUD, still poundering