boltjames

Good job Texas_Acura........it's a great, great car. Like any Gen1 product it's bound to have some early production line glitches, but there are far far more happy campers in the 44,000 unit population than the skewed viewpoints often bubbling-up here.

Best advice I could give is to take a long test drive at two or three dealers. I spent about 3 hours driving the TL around in this manner before I decided to purchase. Try different colored interiors during this exercise too.

Enjoy!

BJ

Racer-X

All, thanks for responding to my post. Once again I have tried to give TL owners an opportunity to express positive remarks about this car (for balance) and once again a quality debate has occurred (quite perplexing actually). Well, I am not an owner. I want to be but I am a procurement analyst by trade and when you read the controversy posted at this forum (sorry, but I have not found the same level at other car forums) it makes you wonder about the car and maybe more importantly what kind of consumer is buying this car. If I were to spend $31,000 on a car, I would have my own personal expectations. These expectations would be based in part by my own experiences with previous cars. We all know the internal criteria we set before we move forward with a purchase. For me, past performance and customer satisfaction is important. So, why the split here? Some are defensive, proud and even arrogant while others seem civil and supportive. One thing seems certain however, TL owners are passionate. Those who do not have problems are passionate and some lash out at those who complain. Those who do have problems are passionate because their expectations have been crushed and perhaps they feel deceived. And to make matters worse, they receive little or no sympathy from fellow TL owners at this site. It seems as though the only solution here is time. Time will provide a history for the quality and reliability issues associated with the new Acura TL. Time will provide customer service ratings! Time will answer the question that has been begged to be asked on this forum; has Acura quality been compromised because of cost factors? Or is it that many of those who are attracted to this car (and prone to internet forums, me included) are tailor-made neurotics. Time will tell……………….

X

Norse396

Agreed, Honda/Acura IS capable of much more, unfortunately I bought one of the bad ones. This happens with every car make I don't care what the brand.

Mostly I agree, but brand loyalty goes both ways, you have the fanboys who will admit nothing and defend a car make with such ignorant loyalty a company could produce 80% lemons but he/she would defend their honor as if they had family ties to them or something.

I dissagree to a point, when someone has enough problems with a car that they become blind to the companies good points I can understand their wanting to trash that company. They are upset and deserve a car built to the standards the companies repution is based on. When a person buys a car that sours their feelings about that company many times they feel that all of their cars are bad. I happen to love the RSX, as underpowered as the standard model is, it has been a very good car for my wife and reliable. We will probably buy another one in a few years. I do agree about the dealers, mine has been excellent.

Every Honda car I've ever owned until this one has been 100% reliable, Honda makes great cars.

I wish you as many happy miles with the new TL as you've had with your Accord!

Discourse is always a good thing when people can do so without resorting to what myself and bj have resorted to. Excellent post. What color combo are you leaning towards?

boltjames

Just a reminder on the math.....

44,000 TL '04 drivers.

2,000 TL '04 drivers in this forum.

30 TL '04 drivers in this forum who have 'minor' issues that annoy them but not to the point where they're going to get rid of their cars as soon as the coupons run out of the payment book.

2 TL '04 drivers so pissed off about rattles and quality issues that they've had it and want out.

The TL is a great car, Acura has issued no recalls at all, and every month the sales levels eclipse past history and expectations. The car gets rave reviews in the trade magazines (except if you want to drive it in competitive races) and it has raised the bar on quality, function, and value to the other cars in its class.

BJ

Norse396

Gen1 isn't an excuse for sloppy QC, I've owned a few Gen1 cars and this one has been by far the worst. I do understand however that all companies produce a few bad ones. That doesn't mean I should live in the ignorant bliss you live in and just be happy because it's a TL, who cares if there are issues, others are happy and gosh darnit, I should be too, puhleaze.

People report their own experiences, statistics are left to company VP's and board room meetings where the individual doesn't matter. Maybe all you care about is statistics, maybe you work for Acura which would explain your blind loyalty and staunch "look at the numbers" view point, if you don't, maybe you should.

To each person having the problems your math is insignificant.

Issues are issues, if I wanted a half assed car with minor issues or major issues I'd have purchased a cheap pile of crap and wouldn't complain.

More than 2 but I digress, re-read your stement, DUH, quality issues are something I care about. You don't, you've made that very clear.

Not issuing a recall doesn't mean squat, the car is young. Sales levels have been very good, maybe with all the extra dough they can start fixing the quality issues, eh?

We have yet to see a long term review, we'll see how that one goes.

boltjames

Now that you've gotten your shot, you can have a lollipop or a sticker. Which one do you want, little Norsey?

FYI: Despite your attempted sabotage of this and other threads, there are still only 2 of you that want to punt your TL's and try another vehicle. Only 2. No one else is chiming in with the "count me in and make that 3". Not one.

Don Quixote, meet the windmill.

BJ

Norse396

How old are you, 16? Grow up.

Whatever troll, point one place where I'm asking for backup, I'm not. I'm stating a point, one which will continue to be stated. What part of this is hard for your tiny brain to grab ahold of? My car has major issues, I don't give a damn if yours doesn't, I don't drive yours, I drive mine and mine is what I'm commenting on, I don't need backup, I don't need 1 single person to chime in with what their car is doing to backup my statements up because whats happening to my car has nothing to do with yours or anybody elses.

If someone chooses to chime in with how their car is doing great, your problem is you feel everybody must be happy with their car and how dare them not be, grow up and crawl out from under that rock, reality will shock you.

Sorry, I thought you might be 16, I apologize to all 16 year olds, clearly this guy hasn't gotten past 8 yet, sheeesh. Let me know when you start up that fanboy site....

boltjames

How can I be the troll when I represent the vast majority? Aren't you the troll trying to make the car seem worse than it really is in some bizzare vendetta against Acura?

For the umpteenth time......feel free to express your feelings on the TL in these forums. We all do it. It's fun. What I'm challenging you on is the perception that you are creating that "everyone feels as badly about their experience as I do" because that is not the truth.

When was the last time you started a meaningful thread in here? Why not do this- create a thread on your own called "Anyone Else Want To Dump Their TL As Soon As Possible?" and let's see where those 4,398 other furious owners are. Instead of invading every thread with a possible opportunity to whine about your self-centered views and selfish situation, create one of your own and see who participates. Fair?

BJ

JetJock

I'm also sick of people complaining about the TL. I've had 3, and other than some paint issues with a NBP 02TLS, all the car's have been great. No rattles, no quality issues just a great car. Before I bought my 04TL, I test drove several, and didn't notice any quality issues, rattles, sagging headliners, or I wouldn't have bought the car. What I did notice was a well designed, tight, absolutely great car for what it is. Now, there are better car's out there for lots more money, but for the money, the 04 TL is just about the best bargain out there. I'm sure there are people who've had problems, and I'm not disputing that fact, I'm just stating that of the 3 cars I've owned, I've had no problems whatsoever with any of them. Maybe i'm lucky, maybe I'm just driving sensibily by not driving 30mph over railroad tracks etc. not modding my car's, I don't know, but my car really is great, and I'm glad I bought it.

Racer-X

While both of you are entitled to your opinion, have some consideration for your fellow TL owners. Your (personal) dispute with one another takes away from the issue at hand. Norse396 has a problem car we should support him with that. Boltjames is trying to correct a possible misperception on this forum; we should support him with that. Otherwise, why don't you two guys just meet in the parking lot and settle the issue once and for all. Get along! It takes a stronger confident person who does not react defensively.

Xerxes480

I LOVE MY TL. Yeah the tires are annoying, and yeah, I was treated like sh*t by Acura Corporate, but damn this car is solid. Every car is going to have it's quirks, first year or not. This car is still a huge value for it's price, even with the quirks. I loved my 02 TL Type-S, but this car makes me easily forget that ol' junker. Just had to get this off my chest.

finishline

There are more than two people who regret buying this car. I wouldn't do it again. I understand the first generation has its problems. It's HOW the company deals with them that has me so frustrated. I'm three months into a new car, arguably the most exciting time of owning, especially a car like this. However, I have had vibration through the wheel, pedal and sometimes the whole car that persists from 50-65 mph. New Bridgestones helped, but not much. Balancing didn't solve the problem. 50% of my driving is in this speed limit range. It's not flatspotting because it never goes away. It's doesn't go away if I downshift with the sport-shift. So every time I drive my new car that I want to love it vibrates most of the time. Before you come down on people who express honest criticism of the car, imagine that the car you love vibrates all the time....or rattles all the time (mine doesn't). It's a constant frustration and this has been by far the worst new car buying experience I've had. Every time I get the car back the dealer says that the problem is solved and then it obviously isn't. I've had Acura tell me it's Bridgestone's problem or that it's "normal performance" for the car to vibrate like this. Never mind that these two statements from the same conversation contradict each other (is it a problem or is it normal?).

Norse396

Being a troll has nothing to do with majority rule. It has everything to do with how you post, so in a way I am a troll because I respond to your inane postings.

This is the very first time you've said this and I have always said I will express how I feel. For the umpteenth time I've said it, you want to hear it's perfect, go to a mirror and repeat it over and over again.

You aren't challening anything, re-read your past postings. I have never said everyone feels anything and I think I have been very clear on that, I have stated to you often enough for you to know it. Let me also be clear one more time I don't care what perception I'm causing, people are free to read both sides and decide for themselves, it's called free will. If someone decides not to buy based on something I've said, I have no problem with that. If they choose to buy because of something you or someone else says, great, I'm for that too. NO PLACE will I tell someone what to do in the decision process.

Every thread I create or post into is meaningful to me, it doesn't have to be meaningful to you.

You missed the point again, where have I asked for anybody else to complain about their TL? Where does it state that I can't post my feelings on how my car is doing? I have also only stated that if they don't fix the car it will get dumped, either way this isn't your forum so how about you let people be honest about their car instead of insisting it's perfect. If you want to seperate people/threads into sections based on your belief system then this place is screwed.

UminChu

I don't see Norse as trolling, trying to disuade others from buying, or even appreciating a TL. He plunked down some major coin for his car, he's had numerous quality issues with it, he's recieved little to no resolution despite sincere efforts from a dealer/service department that he's expressed respect for, but little to no support from ACS. To me, his posts reflect a great deal of frustration from someone who genuinely wants to love his car but ends up dealing with glitch after glitch. Do his posts seem repetitive at times? Perhaps, but his frustration is certainly justified.

I don't think he's on some mission to hijack anybody's thread. Why not appreciate our positive ownership experiences and give a less fortunate owner some support (or at least a break).

Norse396

I have to agree to a point, the '03 loaner they gave me had a much different feeling to it. The '04 "feels" much better, when it rains out my car is silent so I can enjoy it they way I feel it was meant to be, solid and quiet. Since the dealer has fixed the keyless problem, the memory seat problem and the sagging felt problem it's getting better. Now if they could only nail down the loud noises and tires, we would be in the right direction.

I'm glad to read when people are happy with their car.

Norse396

I missed responding to this part, I don't have a community owned TL. I have a Norse396 owned TL so I have every right to be selfish. I don't have to buck up or take one for the Gipper, this is a car and a car forum where people discuss both sides of it. I don't expect anybody to feel the way I do or take one for the Gipper either. I read both sides and decide for myself... selfish yes, DUH.

boltjames

If I send you a check for $33,000 will you feel better? It's almost worth it to me just to stop having you break

up

my

posts

into

line

by

line

responses

that continue to say the same thing over and over again. "Ramblings" is where the unhappy people can go to, well, ramble on and on about how unhappy they are. No one gets defensive there. Everyone is on their own to shout to the sky if they want. Plenty of windmills to chase.

Go ramble, Don Quixote.

BJ

Norse396

boltjames,

Whatever, I can agree to disagree and not respond to you anymore since you are incapable of comprehension. I break up posts I respond to so it...is...easier...for....people....to....know.... what....point....I'm....responding...to.

Also, yes, sending me a check for $33,000 would make me feel better, let me know when you will be sending the check, actually make it a money order. Thank you.

boltjames

Just sent it via PayPal. Please sign the title and send it to this address:

James Bolt
c/o THETLISAPERFECTCAR.COM
44 Happy Street
Unaffected, NY 44001

Does your (my) car have navigation?

BJ

TLGator

Norse, I respect your right to speak your mind on this forum, and I'm going to try hard not to get drawn into the pissing contest you're having with my bud BJ. But I really don't understand why you would utter the above statement. Maybe you didn't mean it quite as it comes across (at least to me). The implication is that Acura put your car together poorly ON PURPOSE or perhaps NEGLEGENTLY.

That's doubtful. I think the people at Acura want very much to build a quality car. I suspect that even if they have identified quality issues, they are not just kicking back at their workstations going, "Whoo hoo! We screwed 'em again!"

If your car is a lemon, and I think it is, that's just bad luck, not a conspiracy or a sign of indifference.

Back when Tiger Woods was winning every tournament in sight, he still had a few bad rounds. A few really, really stinky rounds. What did that mean? Did that mean he was taking the day off, being lazy, not caring about his game? If you're ever watched Tiger you know that's not so. He gets PISSED OFF at himself (and sometimes at the gallery :toothless ). But some days the goods just don't come no matter what.

Your car is a lemon. Lemons happen to the best car companies, not because there is a purposeful lack of effort or an indifference to quality, but because when you build 45,000 TLs a few of them are going to suck wind. When you're the best golfer in the world you're still going to have a few crappy rounds.

Crap happens.

Now, maybe you have a more legitimate argument if you say that Acura has been out to lunch as far as handling your complaints. Maybe the dealer and regional people haven't done all they can or should. But to say that because YOUR TL's build is crap, therefore there must be 45,000 TLs with quality build issues, is just a failure of logic. You can't come to any scientific conclusion about any sort of general quality issue based on this forum. Even if there are many other people on this forum complaining about the quality of their build, it still doesn't mean donkey dick.

If we found FIVE HUNDRED people who had issues with their TL, that would be about ONE PERCENT of the sales so far. If the other 99% had no issues whatsoever, then claiming the TL had general quality build issues would be a fairly ridiculous jump to conclusions.


Let's see...

Norse in IL
BJ in NY

That's gonna take one huge fuckin parking lot.

Norse396

Valid point, what I meant was it is hard to believe that my car could have so many issues when the majority don't. It would seem as if whomever built my car seemed to be paying attention to something else that day. I doubt it was done on purpose.

I agree, however someone screwed up pretty good on mine and I know this happens, so I vent about it, probably too much. At least you discuss it rather than preach.

Agreed, 100%. Based on how the dealer has been treating me it would seem Acura wants to resolve the issues but at this time is not sure how. As time goes by TSB's will be released to deal with them I'm sure, but understandably I want it fixed now, not later.

TLGator, thank you for the post, it helped clear up how what I say may be taken, I'll remember that.

Norse396

When I was a teenager meeting in a parking lot would be standard fare. I'm 40 years old and don't resort to such things anymore since the end result no matter what would be jail. My wife deserves better than that. As for disputes and not liking them I'll tell you what I told BJ, don't like it, don't read it, nobody has forced you to read anything. I will continue to react the way I feel it is appropriate to react, defensive or not, that is my choice.

boltjames isn't trying to correct a misperception, he is doing his level best at telling me how I should like my car no matter what, TLGator was asking to correct something, I read it and agreed with most of it, notice how he wasn't being a prick in doing so.

Thank you for your input though.

Norse396

Well said, I will try and tone it down, I think it should be noted though I only bring up my issues in issues based threads, not in every thread.

boltjames

TLg, everything between NY and IL is a fuckin parking lot, no?

BJ

TLGator

You're being nice to me. I've been called worse than a prick in a couple of other threads.

I love your comment about not being a teenager anymore. It amazes me how some people who get mad on this forum (and other forums, I'm sure) threaten physical violence. Never mind that the concept is ridiculous because we're all just anonymous typers scattered across the nation. But moreover I'm baffled by the fact that some people manage to live beyond adolescence yet remain Neanderthal enough to think anything can be settled by a fist fight. A fist fight between adults oftens means someone going to jail, someone getting seriously hurt (ie killed or permanently maimed) or someone pulling a weapon and changing the game altogether. This is not a frickin 6th grade playground. Guess what people. After a certain age you can't use violence unless you're a cop, a soldier, or you're defending yourself. You just can't. There are laws against it. Plus it's enormously stupid.

Norse, I think overall you've been pretty gracious considering what a raw deal your TL has been. If I were you I'd be making a lot of noise, too. And people who visit this forum SHOULD hear both sides. I just hope they don't come to the conclusion that your car is the norm, because I'm pretty sure it's not. I'm not trying to rub it in or anything, but my TL is virtually perfect.

Good luck getting your problems resolved. Hopefully Acura will do the right thing for you.

TLGator

:lol2:

Ah, I set you up for that one my friend. I won't pretend I was clever enough to do it intentionally, but still, what an easy lob for you to smash crosscourt, eh?

Norse396

Agreed 100%. If we go through life never being called a name we didn't take any risks.

Thanks, hopefully I'm as vocal in a positive way if all the issues are resolved, I'll try to be, I can promise that.

mspence3

RX

I purchased my TL on New Years Eve.

I have had two interior issues:
1) The seat memory problem. Fixed!
2) One rattle (left sun visor rattled constantly) which was replaced yesterday and rattles no more.

The parchment interior is a thing of beauty!

boltjames

Attention People Of Zaino™:

Let this be an example. Sniffing Z6™ can be dangerous to your health. Very dangerous.

BJ

vtec187

Boltjames, by looking at the majority of your posts I have come to the conclusion that you are an asshole.