drdamian

So Yesterday i was driving on I95 southbound past the island avenue exit and i got pulled over by the police for speeding ... i was doing 92.5 in a 55. .... when the cop gave me my ticket he advised me that i would be getting a letter from harrisburg stating that my license would be suspended. i found out later that it would be 5 points and a $201 fine... i donn't mind the fine but an increase of at least 3 points on your license will cost me 2500 increase in insurance for the year... i usually don't speed and i have been driving since 16 and this is my first speeding ticket... The TL is a fast car... i had no idea i was going that fast. i guess the car got a little bit away from me.. i am a complete idiot that has endangered the life of myself, my gf , people around me, and the cop that was chasing me. i will keep you guys posted on how i make out. hopefully one of my buddies can help me out on this one and decrease the points to at least 2 and allow me to keep my license... i have learned my lesson and will be more aware of my speed and my surrounding as this is 2 much aggravation to go through.... its going to be bad enough just for me to take time off from work go to court get chewed out by everyone i meet...

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

take it to court.. talk to prosecutor, they usually negotiate to lower seeing as how it is your first time luck with that.. and lay off the gas pedal... i know its hard with all those ponies...

chfields

You should be eligible for traffic school, that way no points, no insurance rate hike.

jimmyjet

Damian, I don't know how old you are but that's not what matters here. Hire an attorney and say all of that to him or her. When you get to court, you let them do all the talking. It may cost you in legal fees, but you will save money in the long run on insurance premiums.

I made a left on green when I was supposed to wait for the arrow and got nailed. It's not a speeding ticket, but a moving violation is a moving violation to an insurance company. I hired an attorney and turned a $250 fine into a $200 legal fee. And I got supervision instead of points on my record.

The following year I got a ticket in Wisconsin and just paid the fine. My insurance company jacked my premiums. (Dumb on their part because they lost a loyal customer. "I just saved a buncha money by switching to GEICO!"

Assuming you have a clean record and you've been driving a while, the judge may go easy on you. Do not go to court and admit guilt and do not go without legal representation. Apologizing to the judge gets you nowhere. Dress impeccably and let your lawyer explain your case and ensure the court that, moving forward, you won't let it happen again. With any luck, you'll get supervision.

And, of course, take it easy on the accelerator!

DanL

iTrader: (2)

I'm pretty sure that in PA, 30+ over the posted limit is automatically reckless driving. I'd be very surprised if traffic school is going to wipe the slate clean.

CCColtsicehockey

I got my first ticket just after I turned 19 and it was a 90 in a 55 alomst just like yours. the fine was 250 they gave me and supposed to be 5 points. I went to court explained how it was my first ticket and I know i screwed up. got the fine increased to 300 and go it dropped to 10 over which was 2 points.

RickRoush03

you should definitly be able to talk to someone before you see the judge to reduce the mph and damage against you. i have been in more situations like this and all the outcomes have been in my favor, trust me, all they care about is the $$.

phatbastard

Here is an easy way to get out of a speeding ticket, plead not guilty. And then the day of your court appearance the police officer that gave you the citation will more then likely not show up for court. Its an automatic dismissal if the police officer does not show up. This as worked for me 3 times in the last 5 years or so.

HiTEC

I never go to court without a lawyer (even if it costs me a lot more money).

In the long run if this plays out wrong for you, it could cost you a lot more money and time than a lawyer is going to cost.

My advice: Get yourself a lawyer!

yohan81718

Look up on google how the trial by declaration works... here is the basic idea

1. When officer shows up at the court, they get paid, but with written trials, they get nothing.. if the cop is lazy, he won't write it

2. first is written trial, and if you still lose, then you can appear at the court and have another trial = 2 trials

basically, your first trial is like pre-liminary trial.. if the cop is lazy, you win... if not, then you should appear



I don't know how it works, but in California, you can't apply for traffic school for 100+ mph or aka reckless driving that endangers others

chfields

I would guess it depends on how the ticket was written. Was it written as reckless driving or just speeding?

phatbastard

State to State may differ, but in Texas you are not allowed to take defensive driving if your speed exceeds 17 mph above the speed limit.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Been there done that many times over the years....get an attorney, will cost you twice as much - but they will get you around this and you will learn your lesson. Keeps you from waiting in line at court too! (about the only upside to it)

drdamian

thank you everyone for all your advice... i am definetely going to get a lawyer... Here in philly bc it is such a big city its almost a gaurantee that the cop will not show up for court. on the ticket it stated that he caught me on the tracker system and he followed me for .2miles.. he did not write me a recklace driving ticket.. it is only speeding. but nevertheless, i F'ed up royally.. i plan on telling the court exactly what i stated in my first post. i just hope the judge is a little more leniant with me. but i am definetely going to get a lawyer... i think i heard from someone that the points will last on my license for 2 years... so, at an increase of 2200 for 3 points... quick math, 2200 X 2 years = 4400 extra on insurance...... the lawyer has to be cheaper that that.. thanx for all the advice.. i will keep you posted as to the outcome.. ihave to call my buddy on Wed night he said that maybe he could pull a few strings but he assured me that if i wanted to pray now would be a good time to start.. he might be able to help me keep my license and walk away with a few points..

phatbastard

I am so glad that Texas is still one of the few states that doesnt use a point system on your license.

vp911

That's rough... I would call a lawyer and have them bargain it down a bit.

drdamian

yeah, i have to call someone. i need help. my cousin chewed me out for 30 mins and i was getting really heated. but what can you say, the guy is helping me out. all i could do is sit there and be like"yeah, im a fool, i can't believe i did that i never do it" .... He was sitting there looking at the ticket " i can't believe you did that. you are supposed to be a professional , what were you thinking??.. ""do you realize that you can lose your license for 6 months, then how are you going to get to work. " "you are lucky you had all your information or they would have impounded the car." and the best one "Only people that are transporting dope or are in a stolen car do stupid things like this..." All the while inside im saying that bullshit, but ok.. i just had to take my medicine.

JohnDoe2

I would think twice about a lawyer . . . think how it looks, a wealthy man, speeding in his luxury car; now he hires a lawyer to get out of it . . .
Some judges, or court referees if that's the case, may not be interested in cutting you a break.

drdamian

I know, but right now i am not that wealthy. i am a dentist that graduated school about 9 months ago and i am still building a practice. but regardless, they probably won't care about that. the only thing going for me is that the car is fairly new, i am going to tell the judge that the car got away from me and i really didn't realize how fast i was going and take full responsibility of my actions. i am already going to throw myself to the mercy of the court and just appologize. i hope the judge would see that i have a lawyer and realize that it is serious to me and give me some leniancy. if this were you, what would you do instead of getting some legal representation??

vp911

From what I understand, most lawyers will go to the DA and ask for a reduced penalty. Then you plea guilty and you are done with it. At least you wont get all the points and you will keep your license.

sjkforever

since when did TL become a luxury car???

Abnmarine

How does one not notice going 40 mph over the posted speed limit? Sure not realizing that you are doing 92 mph but not noticing that your atleast speeding? I say BS. Good luck to you. I give you props for admitting your mistake.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

But thats the whole point....you will rarely get in front of a judge when you have a lawyer....he works it out with the prosecuter before it gets to that point.....works out a reduced deal cause this is a good kid here, ect. and its done. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY.....you dont say a thing. OH...I think I had to go into the prosecutors office and tell em I wouldnt do this again type of thing....but thats about the extent of it.

mark 3M bra man

Be gald you are not in STL area in MO. They will ALWAYS show up. Few of my friends got burned like that.

Get a lawyer and the problem is gone.

Abnmarine

I agree. You need a lawyer if you wish to have it reduced. Plead your years of driving experience and this being your first ticket. You would be surprised what could happen.

drdamian

I totally recognize the fact that i was speeding.. i just didn't know that i was going that fast. when the cop ask me how fast i was going, i honestly had no idea. i thought i was going somewhere around 70 not 92

drdamian

you guys are all offering great advice and i thank you for the great response... my cousin just called me and said that he is working on it... he told me that he was lucky that i had all my paperwork together bc at that speed they would have impounded the vehicle....

yohan81718

92mph and impound your vehicle??? i thought california had a strict traffic law... my cousin did 115mph and still didn't get his car impounded nor did he went to jail...
92mph and impounding your car just doesn't sound right to me
but anyways, glad your process is going smoothly

PTN

if your state makes you appear before the state prosecutor in advance of a court date, then you can talk to him/her yourself and ask to plead down to a lessor charge, (this is what a lawyer will do). just explain your situation, be apologetic and offer your good driving record as evidence that you don't normally do this kind of thing. chances are, you can walk away with paying a fine along with reduced points and not have to come for a hearing.

if you don't like the deal that the procecutor offers you, you can always take a chance that the officer won't show on court day and go to your hearing. if you have the time, i would do this because sometimes you can get lucky. Even if the officer does show up, you can still talk to the officer on that day in advance of the hearing and request a plead down with him/her (also something a lawyer might do). the officer can allow you to plead down to a lessor charge just like the procecutor. they usually do this to simplify the paperwork that they end up having to do. just ask him if you can plead to some charge with no points or reduced points.

either way, it is likely you will be offered a better deal than what your looking at.

of course, if you can get traffic school, this will eliminate any points and only require you to pay a fine.

all depends on what your particular state laws allow. you can always call the court and ask what the options are. they will be able to tell you if traffic school is possible to erase the points.

oh, by the way, i have done this in the past so i thought i'd offer it up as something to look into. good luck.

Twenties

I can relate. A couple of years ago (pre-TL).....
I got hit for 101MPH in a 45MPH zone. Its called "exhibition of speed". No arrest or impound (although that was an option for the cop).
My license was suspended for 30 days plus 2 points plus $500 fine.
The cop showed up and I lost at trial. Judge said believed cop. They took my license before the trial even started and did not give it back. Good luck.

PTN

for sure you will lose at trial. the judges don't want to hear anything from the speeder. that's why you should always try to plead down. if the cop shows up and you don't talk to him beforehand, you will get your ass handed to you. the court just wants to make it through the whole list of people that day and go home. unfortunately, it's a job like any other where you'd rather be somewhere else. also, remember that they have heard every excuse in the book and none of those are a legal defense. you will lose.

just curious - was your sentence a plead down or were you going for the win in court based on presumed innocence - ie: it wasn't me, and this was the sentence they gave you after the loss?

Twenties

This road was an empty road that is like an expressway with a divider in the middle and no lights/streets for 2 miles.......

In California its automatically 2 points for exhibition of speed. No more no less. The judge used his discretion to add-on the 30-day license suspension which was NOT required by the statute.

As far as the defense, it was kinda a "wasn't me/mistaken identity" defense, in that there was a Corvette in front of me in a lane closer to the cop who the cop actually radar-ed. I got the cop to admit (at the scene and at trial) that his radar was actually clocking the Corvette and not me!!! He argued that clocked the Vette at 102MPH so he ESTIMATED that since I was travelling behind him I doing approx. 101MPH.

Problem is I WASN'T going as fast the vette (duh) and hence thats why he passed the cop before I did. I didn't argue that I was doing 45MPH, I just argued that I was doing a lot less than 100MPH, and therefore it would not qualify as an "exhibition of speed".

Essentially I was trying to plead it down to less charge of "speeding" which is just 1 POINT instead of 2 POINTS + Suspension. Judge was just not hearing it and said that if was speeding and that cop estimated my speed at the speed that was the end of it. Bogus but tough luck because the judge was lecturing me about the risk I was putting myself in by driving fast. He was right, I just have to fight the need for speed.

Abnmarine

So were you playing with the vette or just speeding?

Twenties

Playin is the right word.

See this road has curves and this was the last generation (2003ish) vette which i hear doesnt handle very well. He was gettin squirlley---the rear kept slidin out from under him--it looked like he might lose it because that car was sliding too much oversteer. I was staying back a bit kinda laughin because it looked like that car was trying too hard.

I was takin the turns smooth and fluid , not really racing him or trying to "win"...i was just playin and along for the ride behind. I think the cop know we were not "racing" per se, because come on, i would be stupid to try to out run a vette. I was in a BMW 5 series although it was a manual it only had like 200 hp whereas the vette had probably 350 hp, I think i took it up to 90 in 3rd, and I shifted to 4th but let off and didnt floor it because it wasn't pulling back enough in that gear to keep it down at that speed.

The cop was in a cut around the last bend of the road before it starts to turn back into a regular street. He was on a bike with his radar held out. I talked to the guy in vette while the cop was writing our tickets. We smiled about it and said good luck in court. The cop didnt have an attitude at all just spoke with him for a second and that was that.

tzakiel

If you go to court and say i am sorry with no lawyer present, that's admission without denial and it's the same as paying the fine via credit card on the phone or what have you.

Abnmarine

I realize that you got caught up in the moment but tell me how did this not fall into an Exibition of Speed? Regardless, you were wrong and afterwards looked for a way out. Back to my earlier post in regards to people not owning up to their mistakes but instead look for loopholes. Sounds to me like the conviction was justified. Sorry if the truth hurts.

http://www.caduilaw.com/drunk_drivin...xhibition.html

Exhibition of Speed (Non-priorable as a California DUI)
California Vehicle Code§ 23109.

No person shall engage in any motor vehicle speed contest on a highway. As used in this section, a motor vehicle speed contest includes a motor vehicle race against another vehicle, a clock, or other timing device. For purposes of this section, an event in which the time to cover a prescribed route of more than 20 miles is measured, but where the vehicle does not exceed the speed limits, is not a speed contest.
No person shall aid or abet in any motor vehicle speed contest on any highway.
No person shall engage in any motor vehicle exhibition of speed on a highway, and no person shall aid or abet in any motor vehicle exhibition of speed on any highway.
No person shall for the purpose of facilitating or aiding or as an incident to any motor vehicle speed contest or exhibition upon a highway in any manner obstruct or place any barricade or obstruction or assist or participate in placing any barricade or obstruction upon any highway.
Any person convicted of a violation of subdivision (a) shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for not less than 24 hours nor more than 90 days or by a fine of not less than three hundred fifty-five dollars ($355) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000) or both that fine and imprisonment. The person's privilege to operate a motor vehicle shall be subject to suspension as provided in subdivision (a) of Section 13352. The person's privilege to operate a motor vehicle may be restricted for 90 days to six months to necessary travel to and from that person's place of employment and, if driving a motor vehicle is necessary to perform the duties of the person's employment, restricted to driving in that person's scope of employment. This subdivision does not interfere with the court's power to grant probation in a suitable case.
Any person convicted of a violation of subdivision (a) for an offense which occurred within five years of the date of a prior offense which resulted in a conviction of a violation of subdivision (a) shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for not less than four days nor more than six months and by a fine of not less than five hundred dollars ($500) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000). Additionally, the Department of Motor Vehicles shall either suspend the person's privilege to operate a motor vehicle, as provided in subdivision (a) of Section 13352, or the person's privilege to operate a motor vehicle shall be restricted for six months to necessary travel to and from that person's place of employment and, if driving a motor vehicle is necessary to perform the duties of the person's employment, restricted to driving in that person's scope of employment. This subdivision does not interfere with the court's power to grant probation in a suitable case.
If the court grants probation to any person punishable under subdivision (f), in addition to the provisions of subdivision (f) and any other terms and conditions imposed by the court, which may include a fine, the court shall impose as a condition of probation that the person be confined in the county jail for not less than 48 hours nor more than six months. The person's privilege to operate a motor vehicle shall also be suspended by the Department of Motor Vehicles pursuant to subdivision (a) of Section 13352 or shall be restricted pursuant to subdivision (f).
If any person is convicted of a violation of subdivision (a) and the vehicle used in the violation is registered to that person, the vehicle may be impounded at the registered owner's expense for not less than one day nor more than 30 days.
Any person who violates subdivision (b), (c), or (d) of this section shall upon conviction thereof be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 90 days or by fine of not more than five hundred dollars ($500) or by both that fine and imprisonment.
If a person's privilege to operate a motor vehicle is restricted by a court pursuant to this section, the court shall clearly mark the restriction and the dates of the restriction on that person's driver's license and promptly notify the Department of Motor Vehicles of the terms of the restriction in a manner prescribed by the department. The Department of Motor Vehicles shall place that restriction in the person's records in the Department of Motor Vehicles and enter the restriction on any license subsequently issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles to that person during the period of the restriction.
The court may order that any person convicted under this section, who is to be punished by imprisonment in the county jail, be imprisoned on days other than days of regular employment of the person, as determined by the court. (l) This section shall be known and may be cited as the Louis Friend Memorial Act.
California Criminal Jury Instruction
In order to gain a conviction under this Exhibition of Speed statute, a prosecutor must prove all elements of this crime. Those instruction and elements are located in the California Jury Instruction for Criminal cases (CALJIC) section 16.870 and are as follows:

Every person who engages in or aids and abets any motor vehicle exhibition of speed on a street or highway is guilty of a violation of California Vehicle Code §23109 (c), a misdemeanor. An exhibition of speed is a willful act of showing off or displaying a dangerous and imprudent speed where the presence of another person is known to the driver or may reasonably be anticipated by him.

In order to prove this crime, each of the following elements must be proved:

A person drove a motor vehicle upon a street or highway; and
The driver engaged in an exhibition of speed; and (if applicable)
The defendant aided and abetted the motor vehicle exhibition of speed.

Twenties

(1) Good find, but I don't think thats was the statute applied in my traffic case. My case was in traffic court, not criminal court, there was no prosecutor involved nor was it related to a DUI. I do not believe jail time was even an possible in traffic court for the traffic citation I received.

(2) Maybe i was mistaken when when i said it was an "exhibition of speed". I wish I had the ticket around to see the exact language/statute, but i dont. I know that they hit me with some vehicle code that involved travelling in excess of 100MPH. I do not recall the exact code at this time. It may be something different from exhibition of speed. I know that the cop specifically did NOT say we were RACING. That may have been the higher potential charge but they only hit me with something less. That might explain the confusion.

(3) I appreciate your comments, but understand I am not making excuses. I admit I was speeding. I admitted that to the judge. No doubt about that. You can call it a "loophole" but the law makes fine distinctions between similar acts, and one has one penalty and another has a higher penalty. A defense lawyer's job is to get the least harmful penalty/law applied. If you think thats wrong to try to minimize the negative RESULT, we are just coming from two different worlds. If everything was cut and dry lawyers would not be in business.

Abnmarine

I understand now of it actually being a different charge. I also wasn't trying to slam you about this. I'm glad that it all worked out and also hope the same for the thread maker.

drdamian

thank you abnmarine, i will keep you posted on how i make out. I have a very good lawyer and i am wating on a court date. .... I am hoping the judge has pitty on me and just dosn't suspend my license, or give me any points... i hear in PA its about an $800 per point and im looking at 5......... i mean.. its not like i was driving drunk or i was stealing a car or transporting drugs, hell it wasn't even dark or tired... it was 1pm in the day time, perfectly clear day, nice weather, low traffic.... but breaking the law is breaking the law and i am guiltyof it... i just hope the judge has pity on my soul

ndabunka

You may not realize this but you can go directly to the DA yourself and ask for a reduction (to a reasonably level). Most will do it right away if you've got a clean record. It will still show as a ticket (for a lesser speed) but you won't loose your license. You do not have to hire an attorney to do the same thing you can do yourself. Hope this helps