Manual Transmission

Hi iforyou,

Do you still have the link to the '04~'06 Acura TL 6MT drag time numbers hitting low 14's (14.1~ 14.2) Stock? You posted that about a year ago and I can't find it now. Let me know please. Thanks m8.



Manual Transmission

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Manual Transmission

This is the closest one I found, but it's not completely stock. Is this the one you linked it a while back?

http://www.dragtimes.com/Acura-TL-Timeslip-8619.html



I remember some user with a regular 6MT had it at around 14.2 sec in the quarter with Stock..... which is very possible number anyway.


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SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

14.2 is a possible number with a great driver. There is a stock 04 AV6 6MT that hit 14.24 and 14.27 stock with a 2.08 60ft!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol, I thought I was in trouble when I saw the title of this thread...haha

Anyways, I can't remember which link it was, but Jeff at Temple of VTEC also tested a 2004 TL 6MT and this is what he said,

"based upon our instrumented testing, the Accord 6MT sedan ran 0-60 in 6.3 seconds. With no limited slip the car was struggling mightily with the 60ft times The Accord V6 5AT is a bit behind at 7.0 seconds - it launches pretty softly. The '04 TL 6MT we tested ran 0-60 in 5.8 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 14.2@98mph. The '04 TL 5AT ran 0-60 in 6.3 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 14.5 seconds@96-97mph. The '05 RSX Type S was good for a 0-60 of 6.1 seconds. We haven't tested a TL Type S 6MT against a clock yet but I've driven both the 6MT and 5AT '07 TL-S and once you get it out of the hole I can assure you that the TL-S will stomp an Accord 5AT or 6MT. On the roll the Accord V6 vs a 3.2TL is pretty close."

from: http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-messa...&page_number=2


Also C&D obtained 14.3s for the TL A-spec:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...cs+page-2.html

Thus far, for what I've seen from professional reviews, TL 6MT will do 0-60mph in 5.7-5.9s, 1/4mile in 14.2-14.4s@98-99mph.

types-09 on this forum obtained 13.9@100mph though with his TL 6MT with an intake (and possibly better tires too, not slicks though) and he has a video of that run on youtube.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

I think Type-S 09's run was 13.96 to be technical. Although that is very impressive for just an intake.

And that 5.6 0-60 that C&D got was VERY impressive, considering it had no engine mods and Summer tires.

And what's with the guy smoking crack at TOV thinking his stock Accord 5AT is faster than a TL 6MT?

And can't forget about the guy on there who says 6MT Accord with premium is 250 HP vs. TL 6MT at 258, so the Accord's faster. I guess the TL's 26 ft/lb torque advantage means nothing. I don't know how people can get so caught up in peak numbers anyway.

Manual Transmission

Yea some of that I already found out. Regarding the info from vtec.net that's a plus. Thanks.


And the link I posted in my first post it appears that TL 6MT driver noted that he is able to get around 14 sec stock under a perfect condition with no head wind. Don't know if he actually tried it or if it's coming from his estimation. In any case, the TL 6MT seem very capable of low 14's. I wonder if Car & Driver had their '04 TL 6MT car well broken in before testing it. If it wasn't fully broken in then 14.1 or 14.2 sec quarter mile would be do-a-ble.


Thanks for your post.


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Manual Transmission

Yea TypeS09 user did very good on obtaining the quarter mile. very good indeed. My guess is that with his well broken-in car, without the intake mod he would've gotten 14.1 sec. I really don't like making guesses but wish he actually tried it before the mod.


The best I could guess is that he was really on crack. I agree.


I think iforyou, you, and I all agree that with a well prepped TL 6MT it *could* take out the Accord 6MT (J30). Pretty much a driver's race. I have a little bias toward the TL 6MT because I own one and know how quick this thing is. One day I had most incredible acceleration from 0-95 in SR37 heading north in Noblesville, IN. The damn thing felt like an IS350 taking off(though the IS350 will still get the jump due to RWD and high torque at low range rpm). The pull was unbelievable. I had a perfect launch with the VSA Off, near empty tank of gas, empty trunk, etc. Started off with high rpm without spinning the wheels and the car kept near top rpm from 1st all the way through 3rd gear. The pull was just absolutely crazy.



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anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

I like to run light myself. I think I may head to the track before too long. I've got the AEM intake, TB spacer, and UR crank pulley now, and will be ordering a cat back, ATLP J pipe and test pipe probably this week or next. All this should put me at 250 WHP or a little better and around 3445 lbs. I may look into trying to find a pair of used TL wheels and drag radials, too. I don't care so much about my ET as I do about trapping over 100. I understand the inherent limitations of 0-30 accel in a front-driver, but I should have plenty of go power for highway runs.

BTW, there's another guy on here, OMP Prelude who ran a 13.70 @ close to 102 with intake, custom exhaust, and not much else. I'll search for the video.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Definitely, low 14's for a well-driven 6MT TL is not a problem at all. I guess a lot of times it also depends on the conditions, for instance, I've posted a link to a CL-S 6MT stock running 14.1s.

The problem is, most people who drag race would mod their cars to a certain extent, and also not many people race their TL's, which makes it hard to find times by completely stock TL's.

anx1300c, no kidding, a set of good tires is important for our cars. Stock tires are too crappy.

OMP Prelude did run a 13.7, but it was at Mission Raceway in Vancouver BC, and according to Dave_B that's a fast track.

Dave_B

Track and conditions make the biggest difference unless you're an absolute baffoon driver. If you run in extremely favorable air like high baro pressure, low elevation, low temp and low humidity and the air willl be oxygen saturated to the point that it's like running at -2000'. That's a huge difference. The engine is basically making about 115% of it's normal sea level power.

When you read about someone posting as exceptional time like a stock 06 Z06 on drag radials running 10.9s@127mph, or stock 04 G35 sedan running 13.8s@101mph, or TL running 13.7s@102mph with basic bolt-ons, or a stock 01 Camaro SS running 12.8s@110mph, etc , consider the track and conditions because it can make a huge difference and these types of numbers are far from the norm.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

It must have been more than crack to think a stock 5at AV6 will take out a stock 6mt TL. Maybe the TL guy gave him a head start.

Now the AV6 6mt is a drivers race with a TL 6MT. Both hit consistant low-mid 14's with similar trap speeds. The TL's power advantage is negated by its extra weight.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

^I've seen a detail analysis between the AV6 MT and TL MT, and they are extremely close in terms of performance.

Manual Transmission

SatinSilverAV6, the TL 6MT cars should stay in the low 14's, not mid 14's. Anywhere from 14.1~ 14.4 sec depending on the driver's launching technique and car/road condition. Keep in mind, the TL 6MT is a lot lighter than the 5AT TL. TL 6MT weighs around 3480~ 3487 lbs, also the gears ratios are very well done all the way to the top ends.

Dave_B

I wouldn't say a lot lighter unless you consider 40lbs a lot of weight. Usually autos are lighter because the automatic is often more compact.

A TL 6MT "should be" a lower 14-second car (14.1-14.4s), but it's FWD and it's hard to launch therefore most guys will see mid 14s or higher with high trapspeeds in relation to ET just like most every other FWD car.

Dave_B

Isn't the Accord lighter?

Manual Transmission

Wrong...

The TL 6MT does not weigh 40 lbs less than a 5AT TL. The 5AT TL is in the upper 3650 lb range. The 6MT version weighs 3480+ lbs. Check the source carefully before jumping into conclusion.



Of course any newbie drivers can take the TL and get various results. Any newbie or grandma can take a TL 6MT and reach 16 or 18 seconds in the quarter mile. You are twisting words, so rediculous. When we were talking numbers I was talking professional drivers, or drivers who have great skills in driving stick and good launching with the FWD cars, those who know how to drive.

Don't go try arguing with me, buddy. I didn't ask for your insights in this thread. I never thoght good of your posts, all of it. I really don't think you really know much. You never impressed me, in anything....

Manual Transmission

Stop with this smart a$$ comment. Don't post anything in this thread. Don't post anything in ALL threads in Acurazine website. You don't know much.

Manual Transmission

This is so ridiculous.

40 lbs??


Get the hell out of here.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think Dave_B is referring to G35, as this was discussed before (probably half a year ago?). As Manual Transmission has just pointed out, the 6MT TL is significantly lighter than a 5AT TL. A 2004 TL 5AT is 3578lbs, where a 2004 TL 6MT is 3494lbs. In 2007, 5AT TL (non-Type S) is 3622lbs, vs 3558lbs of the TL-S 6MT. Obviously, the 5AT TL-S is heavier than a 5AT TL. Also, as you've pointed before, the gearing in the 5AT sucks.

For our cars, at least for the 2nd gen, the auto is much bigger and heavier than the manual. Just google or search around in this forum and you can easily see the difference in size. Again, Honda isn't the best in making automatic gearboxes, but they are extremely good at making manual gearboxes.

Also, the Accord is lighter, by around 200lbs or so when comparing a AV6 6MT vs a TL 6MT. However, the difference in displacement, hp, and torque offset the weight. It's really a drivers race.

Btw Manual Transmission, calm down! :P

Dave_B

Looks like we're both wrong, Chief. According to Honda themselves, a 2005 5AT weighs in 3582lbs and the 6MT at 3489lbs or about 93lbs between the too. A far cry from the 170lbs+ you swear by. Maybe you should check the stats yourself before jumping to conclusions too Honda must build thier autos out of cast iron (joke) because most late model autos weigh less than their manual counterparts. I know this is true for the G/Z JATCO 5AT auto (40lbs lighter) and the 4L60/6L60 4AT/6AT (30lbs lighter) used in GM products.

http://www.hondanews.com/categories/...1?archive=2005


Really? It takes some skill to get the best ETs? Wow, I didn't know that. I'm twisting words?

You posted on a public forum. If you didn't want other people posting then maybe you should try that private message function?

Dave_B

It wasn't a smart ass comment. It was a question. BTW, are you a moderator? Yep, didn't think so. I'll continue to post in your thread.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

^ haha, I don't think they build their auto slushboxes using cast iron...otherwise we wouldn't have that tranny problem....Honda is definitely behind the pack in terms of automatic transmission. Not only are many new auto's being lighter than their manual counterparts, but some are also faster, namely the 911 Turbo..and then.there's the DSG..even better..IMO, Honda rushed to the market with their 5AT too quickly, and they possibly didn't do enough testing, thus resulting in the well-known tranny problem. I think that's one of the reasons why it's taking them so long to come up with a 6AT (or 7..or 8..or whatever) as I don't think they want to repeat the tranny problem again - they want to make sure it's reliable at the very least.

Dave_B

You sure they don't make them from old battleships? I agree, Honda has never been real good at making a reliable automatic. Additionally, they also don't understand how to gear it correctly nor make it fun like adding a manual function or paddle shifters. It's too bad that they choose to keep this work in-house when there are so many good autos on the market that could be sourced for their application. Nissan owns JATCO, but they don't work hand in hand, company wise. The auto that resides in the G/Z is the same 5AT you'll find in Subarus and some other Asian makes. GM sources out their manuals and the 6MT you'll find in the the new CTS is the same one you'll find in the G/Z. But GM makes their own autos and actually used to source them out to BMW for the 5 and 7 series. Honda should take note.

As for the amazing 911 Turbo, the reason the auto is quicker is because it can boost from the launch and not a drop of boost is lost between shifts. Turbos and autos go together VERY nicely.

Manual Transmission

According to 2007 Acura TL brochure the specs indicate the Standard trim Acura TL 5AT weighs 3636 lbs. IIRC the 2006 model weighs almost the same. There are no major differences differences between the '04~'06 and '07 model. That's very close to WHAT I HAVE POSTED. Approx. figure weight difference between the TL 6MT and 5AT is about 150 lbs, not "40" lbs you spoke of. You sounded so sure like you know exactly what the hell you are talking about. 40 lbs my ass.............





You don't have what it takes to say that. That comment was for you. 2 cents? I give you 2 cents.



So Acura TL is a GM made product? It's engineered and manufactured by General Motor??

Here is the kicker. So some manufacturer use G/Z JATCO 5AT to make it lighter than the manual transmission so same applies to Acura TL cars????????????? This is what the f#@k I'm talking about, your ignorance. Read that word ignorance again.





The emphasis you've been making is that it depends sorely on the driver's ability to launch the car without messing up, i.e. spinning wheels from a dig, wrong points of shifting gears, clutching technique, etc. I said it before that it is harder to launch FWD cars with stick. I'm talking about what the car is capable of when using good drivers who really know how to drive.


Here is a good message for you. Your ignorance and sarcasm makes you look worse.


Are you really 33 years old? like an ignorant fart?

Manual Transmission

Dave newbie,

Just because Infiniti G35's launch so well and get just as good or better result on the quarter mile doesn't mean it applies to Honda/Acura, TL for example. A lot of your posts I have read indicate this. Are you stupid or what... or just being ignorant. Tell me. Don't be shy about it.

Manual Transmission

Just for information, the TL Type-S AUTO is even heavier, in the north of 3674 lbs. This is also according to the Acura 2007 brochure.


Wow, so Acura TL 6MT weighs 3674 lbs then? How the hell is this thing getting near 14 sec in the quarter mile when it has only 258 HP?


The problem is because you are so ignorant. YOU are the one needs to read the sources more carefully before spewing sh#t....


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Manual Transmission

The TL 6MT without NAVI weighs around 3480 lbs. You put the high number on the 6MT and low number on the 5AT. I have been saying this over and over and over before.

Manual Transmission

Don't go try preaching in this thread because your information is way off.

The fact of the matter is that the TL 6MT is much lighter and is much more efficient when transferring power from the engine to the wheels.

It's your smart ass comments and ignorance that causes problems. You are very unwanted. Not welcome here.

Yes I'm talking to you, Dave_B.



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Manual Transmission

iforyou, the Type-S 6MT's weight is now down to 3515 lbs, not 3558. Look at the Car & Driver review of the 2008 Acura TL Type-S 6MT.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...re+page-5.html

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, that's for sure man, I was just trying to say that, even with the high number on the 6MT, and a low number on the 5AT, there's still a large difference in weight. And when you use the lower number of the 6MT, and the highest number of the 5AT, there's even a greater difference, as you've stated.

Dave, all Acura's with AT do come with manual function, some even have paddle shifters.

Bearcat94

WOW!! Glad you're all getting along and having *such* a good time.

If it were me, for purpose of comparision, I'd use published Acura Specification weights from:

http://www.hondanews.com/categories/733

and

http://www.hondanews.com/archives/acura


But, hey, it's your guys' thread.

I just dropped by to say, "Hi."

Dave_B

Okay, so Honda is lying on their very own website about the weights of the 2005 6MT and 2005 5AT Look up the curb weights for any year car and you'll see that the numbers vary widely between each publication. If you really want to know your curb weight, take it to a scale. Usually cars are lighter than what the manufactuer says. My high option G35 is listed by Infiniti as weighing 3,380lbs, but when put on a CAT scale it weighed 3,320lbs (nearly a full tank of fuel, 20lbs tools in the trunk). My old 96 Maxima weighed in at 2915lbs (3020lbs listed) and my 94 Z28 3,305 (3,420lbs listed). Motor Trend and Car & Driver report the same decrepenicies in weight between listed and actual. 9 out of 10 times, the car is lighter than reported.

BTW, I liked you PMs.

Dave_B

Dude, Honda is lying. According to those specifications, the difference in weight between the auto and 6MT is 90lbs. Mr. MT knows the difference is over 170lbs. He's knows Honda's better than Honda.

Bearcat94

^^

I am willing to assume that they have a method to their lies; That they lie, but they lie consistently.

So, for the purpose of comarison, .... .

Anyhow, whatever you guys wanna do.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

^^^^ HAHA, that's awesome, they lie consistently... that's a good one haha!

Dave_B

Honda should run for office.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

As much as you would like the TL 6MT to stay in the low 14's, most of the time it doesn't. Those are the fastest times the TL can produce with the best of drivers and not the most common time. Same goes for the Accord. Both average mid 14's but can easily produce low 14's if driven to their full potential.

As far as weight goes I am well aware that the TL 6MT is lighter than the TL 5AT. The accords are the same way. However the accord coupes do not have as much of a drastic difference in weight from AUTO to MANUAL. The V6 6MT weighs 3260lbs for a 03 AV6 and I weighed my 03 AV6 5AT at the track and mine weighed 3272lbs. On the honda website they state 3295lbs for my EX V6 Coupe Auto. Must be my Exhaust. I know that weighs much less than my stock setup.

Also the TL gearing and the Accord gearing are practicly identical. Same transmissions for the 6MT and 5AT. The only difference is the 5AT Accord doesn't use the same ECU for the Manumatic mode in the TL. Other than that the tranny is identical. There is a guy on the V6 Performance website that swapped the 07 TL-S steering wheel with paddle shifters and the whole center consule with the shifter and manumatic functions into his 7th gen 5AT V6. He uses the stock tranny in his accord and uses a TL-S ECU. He said he had to tune it to the J30 engine settings but everything works perfectly including the steering wheel shifters. I wouldn't waste my money personally but I love to see someone else do it!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

^ that's a nice mod...Accord with paddle shifters..haha

Manual Transmission

90 lbs my @ss..... Get the hell out of here.


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Manual Transmission

I knew without a doubt that the regular trim 6MT version is considerably lighter than the regular trim 5AT version. Difference ranging from 100~ 110 lbs for the 2006 models.

The difference is a difference. It's nothing like what Dave_B has mentioned "40 lbs". He doesn't even admit that he's been wrong the whole time.


This is ridiculous..... this doesn't even need to be an argument. It's so obvious the 6MT version is so much lighter. Case closed.



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