I was wrong - AP2's are dirty quick, but TL's are filthy quick
07-22-2011, 04:51 AM
#1
I was wrong - AP2's are dirty quick, but TL's are filthy quick
Yep, I was wrong. Recently had a disagreement with y'all about the TL and its prowess in a straight line... I have proved with my own TL that they hold their own. I don't know if my car is one of those mythical factory freaks or what, but I've been very surprised with the last week of races.
My car: 2005 TL 6-speed
Bone stock
Spare tire/tool kit delete
Driver mod: FAST shifting
1st Race - The Baseline
My friend has a extremely fast NA AP2 s2000. He smashes on GTO's, Evo's, and STI's all the time, so it's pretty damn fast. He shifts instantly and has great supporting mods. My favorite NA S2000 and one of my favorite S2000s ever. Stunningly gorgeous to boot.
Full bolt-ons
Flashpro on shitty Mugen pre-made tune
4.57 gears
Mugen hardtop with soft top delete
RPF1's (16 lbs each)
+220 lb handicap
Results:
We put my 220 lb cousin in his car to handicap the AP2, and from 20-30 rolls (not the best TL rolls) to 100-110 he'd only have about 1, maybe 1.5 car lengths on me. Sure, he was handicapped, but that's VERY GOOD considering he clowns on fast boosted cars/V8's. I was feeling pretty good about this and was very surprised, so I raced my cousin later that night:
2nd race - Family Matters
AP1
Full bolt-ons (3" catback single + 3" HFC + intake) except stock header
J Mag rims (16-18 lbs)
Soft top
4.77 gears
NO TUNE, stock ECU
My cousin is a good driver (I'd put myself ahead of him for shift speeds but he's definitely faster than the vast majority of drivers) so that's out of the way.
Results: Absolutely neck and neck until 100 MPH, then I start walking him at 110-120 MPH. Surprising, but not overly surprising since he's geared for 0-100 with those 4.77's. They kill the top end. He'd have done better with stock 4.1 gears. But still, it speaks volumes that my bone stock TL can put the hurt on a well-driven AP1 weighing under 2700 lbs with gears and full bolt-ons. If he was tuned he'd rape the shit out of the TL though.
Tonight - 3rd Race - The VAG
A friend of mine is always 'bragging' about the shitty cars he beats (lame ass G35's, S2000's with shitty drivers, SRT-4's, Cobalt SSes, Hyundai Genesis, RSX Type S etc) and I destroyed him by 2.5 car lengths @ 120 MPH with my S2000 when it was bone stock with nothing but a spare tire delete + catback exhaust, so I always tell him to fuck off, but tonight he worked up the courage to run my grocery getter TL.
Well, he ran my TL tonight because he figured it's a slow ass sedan and he could shove it in my face - he was wrong.
MKV GTI 6 speed manual
Stage 1 APR tune
Downpipe
Modified custom exhaust
Intake
Now I think GTI's are goofy and their drivers are way too full of themselves, so I absolutely relish putting them in their place whenever I can, friend or not.
Results: Up to 100-110 MPH it's neck and neck but after 110 MPH I begin to walk him hard. Fucking Volkswagens
4th race - Girl car with balls
My friend brought along another challenger:
Turbo Scion TC 5 speed
Full bolt-ons
5.8 psi boost
250-260 whp
First off, Scion TC's are lame as hell. Second, their gearing is horrific.
Third, I beat this guy by 2+ car lengths by the time we hit 110 MPH from a low 40 roll.
That's all for now. BTW, I will be installing the following mods in the next week so I'm hoping for another 40-50 whp.
High flow cats
Race pipe (3rd cat delete)
Custom 3" exhaust
ATLP J-Pipe
Fujita intake (MAYBE, there's one for sale on Craigslist for $150)
I'm excited about what I can do with bolt-ons.
Thanks for reading.
My car: 2005 TL 6-speed
Bone stock
Spare tire/tool kit delete
Driver mod: FAST shifting
1st Race - The Baseline
My friend has a extremely fast NA AP2 s2000. He smashes on GTO's, Evo's, and STI's all the time, so it's pretty damn fast. He shifts instantly and has great supporting mods. My favorite NA S2000 and one of my favorite S2000s ever. Stunningly gorgeous to boot.
Full bolt-ons
Flashpro on shitty Mugen pre-made tune
4.57 gears
Mugen hardtop with soft top delete
RPF1's (16 lbs each)
+220 lb handicap
Results:
We put my 220 lb cousin in his car to handicap the AP2, and from 20-30 rolls (not the best TL rolls) to 100-110 he'd only have about 1, maybe 1.5 car lengths on me. Sure, he was handicapped, but that's VERY GOOD considering he clowns on fast boosted cars/V8's. I was feeling pretty good about this and was very surprised, so I raced my cousin later that night:
2nd race - Family Matters
AP1
Full bolt-ons (3" catback single + 3" HFC + intake) except stock header
J Mag rims (16-18 lbs)
Soft top
4.77 gears
NO TUNE, stock ECU
My cousin is a good driver (I'd put myself ahead of him for shift speeds but he's definitely faster than the vast majority of drivers) so that's out of the way.
Results: Absolutely neck and neck until 100 MPH, then I start walking him at 110-120 MPH. Surprising, but not overly surprising since he's geared for 0-100 with those 4.77's. They kill the top end. He'd have done better with stock 4.1 gears. But still, it speaks volumes that my bone stock TL can put the hurt on a well-driven AP1 weighing under 2700 lbs with gears and full bolt-ons. If he was tuned he'd rape the shit out of the TL though.
Tonight - 3rd Race - The VAG
A friend of mine is always 'bragging' about the shitty cars he beats (lame ass G35's, S2000's with shitty drivers, SRT-4's, Cobalt SSes, Hyundai Genesis, RSX Type S etc) and I destroyed him by 2.5 car lengths @ 120 MPH with my S2000 when it was bone stock with nothing but a spare tire delete + catback exhaust, so I always tell him to fuck off, but tonight he worked up the courage to run my grocery getter TL.
Well, he ran my TL tonight because he figured it's a slow ass sedan and he could shove it in my face - he was wrong.
MKV GTI 6 speed manual
Stage 1 APR tune
Downpipe
Modified custom exhaust
Intake
Now I think GTI's are goofy and their drivers are way too full of themselves, so I absolutely relish putting them in their place whenever I can, friend or not.
Results: Up to 100-110 MPH it's neck and neck but after 110 MPH I begin to walk him hard.
Fucking Volkswagens4th race - Girl car with balls
My friend brought along another challenger:
Turbo Scion TC 5 speed
Full bolt-ons
5.8 psi boost
250-260 whp
First off, Scion TC's are lame as hell. Second, their gearing is horrific.
Third, I beat this guy by 2+ car lengths by the time we hit 110 MPH from a low 40 roll.
That's all for now. BTW, I will be installing the following mods in the next week so I'm hoping for another 40-50 whp.
High flow cats
Race pipe (3rd cat delete)
Custom 3" exhaust
ATLP J-Pipe
Fujita intake (MAYBE, there's one for sale on Craigslist for $150)
I'm excited about what I can do with bolt-ons.
Thanks for reading.
Last edited by DisgustipatedAP1; 07-22-2011 at 05:03 AM.
07-22-2011, 06:39 AM
#3
Turd Polisher
iTrader: (1)
When the TL gets pre-cat deletes, j-pipe w/ a full catback .. the 3rd / 4th gear is ridiculous.
Total sleeper for sure.
Total sleeper for sure.
07-22-2011, 08:25 AM
#4
All motor
Cheers for you coming back admitting you were wrong. I did the same as well in your thread, nice to know you did too
The TL is a quick car, especially in 6MT, and especially from a roll. I'm surprised you pulled on the AP1 up top, although true his gears do fare him only up to triple digits.
I will have to call driver error on the boosted TC, only because his power/weight is far beyond yours. They weigh maybe 3000lbs, if not lighter. He has a good 25-30whp on you, not to mention probably 50ft-lbs. A win is a win though and I'm sure he was surprised!
With the mods you are planning your car will be much quicker. Beware though that you will need a tune to get the most potential out of them. The AFR with full bolt ons is all over the place, so there is a lot of power to gain with a good tune. Good luck!
The TL is a quick car, especially in 6MT, and especially from a roll. I'm surprised you pulled on the AP1 up top, although true his gears do fare him only up to triple digits.
I will have to call driver error on the boosted TC, only because his power/weight is far beyond yours. They weigh maybe 3000lbs, if not lighter. He has a good 25-30whp on you, not to mention probably 50ft-lbs. A win is a win though and I'm sure he was surprised!
With the mods you are planning your car will be much quicker. Beware though that you will need a tune to get the most potential out of them. The AFR with full bolt ons is all over the place, so there is a lot of power to gain with a good tune. Good luck!
07-22-2011, 02:34 PM
#5
Cheers for you coming back admitting you were wrong. I did the same as well in your thread, nice to know you did too
The TL is a quick car, especially in 6MT, and especially from a roll. I'm surprised you pulled on the AP1 up top, although true his gears do fare him only up to triple digits.
I will have to call driver error on the boosted TC, only because his power/weight is far beyond yours. They weigh maybe 3000lbs, if not lighter. He has a good 25-30whp on you, not to mention probably 50ft-lbs. A win is a win though and I'm sure he was surprised!
With the mods you are planning your car will be much quicker. Beware though that you will need a tune to get the most potential out of them. The AFR with full bolt ons is all over the place, so there is a lot of power to gain with a good tune. Good luck!
The TL is a quick car, especially in 6MT, and especially from a roll. I'm surprised you pulled on the AP1 up top, although true his gears do fare him only up to triple digits.
I will have to call driver error on the boosted TC, only because his power/weight is far beyond yours. They weigh maybe 3000lbs, if not lighter. He has a good 25-30whp on you, not to mention probably 50ft-lbs. A win is a win though and I'm sure he was surprised!
With the mods you are planning your car will be much quicker. Beware though that you will need a tune to get the most potential out of them. The AFR with full bolt ons is all over the place, so there is a lot of power to gain with a good tune. Good luck!
From what I've read about the tuning for TL's, once that new ECU comes out I wouldn't be surprised to see 25-40 whp extra peak from the ECU with TONS of mid-range. The TL would probably hugely benefit from dropping VTEC down to 3-4k along with AFR and timing tweaks. I don't see 300-320 whp all motor being out of the question with gobs of extra low end torque and mid-range being added. Increase the rev limiter to 7000-7200 and the TL should become an absolute monster.
I may just pick up one of those ECUs when they come out and be the first fully tuned TL in CA just to see what the platform can do.
07-22-2011, 11:03 PM
#7
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (2)
Guess you're not familiar with VW/GTI guys.
Can't wait to find out.
Well, the boosted TC's get screwed because they have horrible gearing for turbo: they can't take advantage of that power.
From what I've read about the tuning for TL's, once that new ECU comes out I wouldn't be surprised to see 25-40 whp extra peak from the ECU with TONS of mid-range. The TL would probably hugely benefit from dropping VTEC down to 3-4k along with AFR and timing tweaks. I don't see 300-320 whp all motor being out of the question with gobs of extra low end torque and mid-range being added. Increase the rev limiter to 7000-7200 and the TL should become an absolute monster.
I may just pick up one of those ECUs when they come out and be the first fully tuned TL in CA just to see what the platform can do.
Can't wait to find out.
Well, the boosted TC's get screwed because they have horrible gearing for turbo: they can't take advantage of that power.
From what I've read about the tuning for TL's, once that new ECU comes out I wouldn't be surprised to see 25-40 whp extra peak from the ECU with TONS of mid-range. The TL would probably hugely benefit from dropping VTEC down to 3-4k along with AFR and timing tweaks. I don't see 300-320 whp all motor being out of the question with gobs of extra low end torque and mid-range being added. Increase the rev limiter to 7000-7200 and the TL should become an absolute monster.
I may just pick up one of those ECUs when they come out and be the first fully tuned TL in CA just to see what the platform can do.
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07-23-2011, 01:50 AM
#8
It's pretty strong in 3rd/4th for an N/A V6 sporty grocery getter, but I wouldn't quite call it ridiculous!
I think you're getting a little crazy on the peak numbers, but it should do pretty well and definitely give it some much needed mid range torque. I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on it myself. As far as getting into the 300 whp range, cams will be a necessity on top of the tune. With full bolt ons, some induction porting and the ecu, I think 270-275 SAE on a dynojet will be about the max.
I think you're getting a little crazy on the peak numbers, but it should do pretty well and definitely give it some much needed mid range torque. I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on it myself. As far as getting into the 300 whp range, cams will be a necessity on top of the tune. With full bolt ons, some induction porting and the ecu, I think 270-275 SAE on a dynojet will be about the max.
1. Stock ECU has very safe timing, not aggressive at all, especially not up top
2. Stock ECU AFR is all over the place with bolt-ons, tons of power to be made there
3. Lowering VTEC will be good for at least 20-30 WHP in the mid-range alone
4. Raising rev limit to 7200 RPM will continue making power at peak
The list goes on...
On the preliminary, so-so tune that was done as a preview for the new ECU, they made an extra 20 whp and 25 lb-ft torque. Here in SoCal we've got some of the best tuners (especially for Hondas) in the entire world, and I really think a great tune could pick up an extra 30+ whp at peak, with insane low-end and mid-range gains.
Doesn't an untuned TL 6-speed hit 270-280 whp on average with full bolt-ons anyways? With a tune, I really see 300-320 whp all motor being possible, maybe with a bigger throttle body and perhaps port 'n polished manifolds. Depending on dyno, some Type S 6-speeds are already hitting 290-300 whp.
I honestly think J series can make big NA gains on par, if not better than K series without major engine internal work, stroking, or headwork...
07-23-2011, 12:55 PM
#10
AP1 was geared with 4.77's. In the S2000 community, we gear with 4.77's for 0-100, and 4.3's and 4.44's for low end gains without losing top end. By the time you hit 110~ with 4.77's, you're already in 5th gear.
That would be my reasoning as to why he loses past 100... he runs out of steam due to gearing.
07-23-2011, 10:31 PM
#11
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (2)
Is it OK if I disagree?
1. Stock ECU has very safe timing, not aggressive at all, especially not up top
2. Stock ECU AFR is all over the place with bolt-ons, tons of power to be made there
3. Lowering VTEC will be good for at least 20-30 WHP in the mid-range alone
4. Raising rev limit to 7200 RPM will continue making power at peak
The list goes on...
On the preliminary, so-so tune that was done as a preview for the new ECU, they made an extra 20 whp and 25 lb-ft torque. Here in SoCal we've got some of the best tuners (especially for Hondas) in the entire world, and I really think a great tune could pick up an extra 30+ whp at peak, with insane low-end and mid-range gains.
Doesn't an untuned TL 6-speed hit 270-280 whp on average with full bolt-ons anyways? With a tune, I really see 300-320 whp all motor being possible, maybe with a bigger throttle body and perhaps port 'n polished manifolds. Depending on dyno, some Type S 6-speeds are already hitting 290-300 whp.
I honestly think J series can make big NA gains on par, if not better than K series without major engine internal work, stroking, or headwork...
1. Stock ECU has very safe timing, not aggressive at all, especially not up top
2. Stock ECU AFR is all over the place with bolt-ons, tons of power to be made there
3. Lowering VTEC will be good for at least 20-30 WHP in the mid-range alone
4. Raising rev limit to 7200 RPM will continue making power at peak
The list goes on...
On the preliminary, so-so tune that was done as a preview for the new ECU, they made an extra 20 whp and 25 lb-ft torque. Here in SoCal we've got some of the best tuners (especially for Hondas) in the entire world, and I really think a great tune could pick up an extra 30+ whp at peak, with insane low-end and mid-range gains.
Doesn't an untuned TL 6-speed hit 270-280 whp on average with full bolt-ons anyways? With a tune, I really see 300-320 whp all motor being possible, maybe with a bigger throttle body and perhaps port 'n polished manifolds. Depending on dyno, some Type S 6-speeds are already hitting 290-300 whp.
I honestly think J series can make big NA gains on par, if not better than K series without major engine internal work, stroking, or headwork...
I do agree though on the benefits of lowering vtec into maybe the 3.5-4k range, and extending the rev limiter by at least a few hundred, maybe even to 7.5k. If you study dyno charts on the J, you can see the drastic power drop north of 6k, which is likely caused by the stock ecu retarding timing. I'd love to feel a constant pull to 7k +. Keep us posted if you decide to do the J&R. I'm sure with the right tuner it'll totally transform the car. It desperately needs more mid/low end pull too; it would make it so much easier to drive around town.
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swoosh (07-28-2011)
07-26-2011, 03:16 PM
#13
07-26-2011, 07:01 PM
#14
There is a guy on this site that ran a 14.2x @ 99MPH with just CAI on a auto type s in almost perfect conditions. However most of the times I see do not come close to that. A slight edge to the 6MT with a excellent driver. I would personally love to race both in my accord just to see!
07-26-2011, 09:18 PM
#17
Turd Polisher
iTrader: (1)
Hey hey, when are we going to run? 
07-26-2011, 10:25 PM
#20
Moderator
iTrader: (7)
ideally i'd like to record to race too so people will know the answer once and for all, because too many times i see people on the forum saying "oo i think the 6mt will win on takeoff" or "type s should keep up from a roll" but its all speculation!
07-26-2011, 11:09 PM
#22
Moderator
iTrader: (7)
yea probably, with ur mods, i wanna race a stock 6 speed base tl lol, and the OP seems like hes stock.
dont worry i will be safe i always find a very open and traffic-free to do the runs.
on the other hand, what happened to ur fb justin?
dont worry i will be safe i always find a very open and traffic-free to do the runs.
on the other hand, what happened to ur fb justin?
07-27-2011, 09:01 AM
#23
Turd Polisher
iTrader: (1)
Looks like we're going to run tonight!
I'll let you guys know the results.
I'll let you guys know the results.
07-27-2011, 10:49 AM
#25
All motor
Get a vid!
07-28-2011, 12:18 AM
#27
Turd Polisher
iTrader: (1)
No vids .. but I got a story!
I was shocked because D's Up decided to add a loud / single exit exhaust right before the race 
. Made the race more exciting for sure.
We did about 3 races.
45-100: We both started in 2nd, after 3 honks we were off and the Accord seemed to pull ever so slightly in 2nd. As I shifted into third, my car kind of struggled to put power down after I saw VSA flashing. The S2000 slowed the pull but as soon as my car regained it's stride in 3rd, I started inching forward and ended up about 3/4 of a car ahead.
50-100: Identical result.
70-110: I knew my car would have the advantage in 3rd gear because it seems J / 6MTs have great top end into 4th. I was probably 1.5 car lengths when we both let off.
Races were good and safe!
Mods are on my Accord.
KNN CAI, J-Pipe, Test Pipe and 3" Exhaust, Innovative Mounts and lowered on H&R & Tokico.
Great race.
I was shocked because D's Up decided to add a loud / single exit exhaust right before the race
. Made the race more exciting for sure.We did about 3 races.
45-100: We both started in 2nd, after 3 honks we were off and the Accord seemed to pull ever so slightly in 2nd. As I shifted into third, my car kind of struggled to put power down after I saw VSA flashing
. The S2000 slowed the pull but as soon as my car regained it's stride in 3rd, I started inching forward and ended up about 3/4 of a car ahead.50-100: Identical result.
70-110: I knew my car would have the advantage in 3rd gear because it seems J / 6MTs have great top end into 4th. I was probably 1.5 car lengths when we both let off.
Races were good and safe!
Mods are on my Accord.
KNN CAI, J-Pipe, Test Pipe and 3" Exhaust, Innovative Mounts and lowered on H&R & Tokico.
Great race.
07-28-2011, 10:40 AM
#30
Turd Polisher
iTrader: (1)
Yeah, he just had exhaust.
I would say his car was about 60 pounds lighter (stock exhaust weighs about 52 pounds, spare was out and I think he was low on gas) + the added HP of the exhaust.
Not sure how much it benefited him though.
I would say his car was about 60 pounds lighter (stock exhaust weighs about 52 pounds, spare was out and I think he was low on gas) + the added HP of the exhaust.
Not sure how much it benefited him though.
07-28-2011, 10:53 AM
#31
Turd Polisher
iTrader: (1)
And sorry for the threadjack
07-28-2011, 02:09 PM
#33
Turd Polisher
iTrader: (1)
^ Ha, I stand corrected.
How did the exhaust make your torque / top end feel?
How did the exhaust make your torque / top end feel?
07-28-2011, 02:37 PM
#35
takin care of Business in
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I haven't seen any SAE corrected Dynojet graphs in the 270-280 range on a base model with basic bolt ons. Stock is generally 220-225, so that's a huge increase. I'd say with the basic bolt ons, 255-260 SAE is tops, depending on choice of catback, J pipe, PCDs or HFC's etc. Maybe a little higher with TB and induction porting. That's still unchartered territory on the J series until I see more proof. Sonnick dynoed 255 on his 3.0 Accord with full bolt ons, ported intake but no pulley, but that was STD corrected. Convert that to SAE and it's making ~245, which is ~30 over stock (those J30 Accords dynoed within 5-10 whp of the J32). Granted, with a pulley and better J pipe (think he had the restrictive RV6 version 1 at the time), he would've probably pulled another 5 whp or so. Still very solid for bolt ons.
I do agree though on the benefits of lowering vtec into maybe the 3.5-4k range, and extending the rev limiter by at least a few hundred, maybe even to 7.5k. If you study dyno charts on the J, you can see the drastic power drop north of 6k, which is likely caused by the stock ecu retarding timing. I'd love to feel a constant pull to 7k +. Keep us posted if you decide to do the J&R. I'm sure with the right tuner it'll totally transform the car. It desperately needs more mid/low end pull too; it would make it so much easier to drive around town.
I do agree though on the benefits of lowering vtec into maybe the 3.5-4k range, and extending the rev limiter by at least a few hundred, maybe even to 7.5k. If you study dyno charts on the J, you can see the drastic power drop north of 6k, which is likely caused by the stock ecu retarding timing. I'd love to feel a constant pull to 7k +. Keep us posted if you decide to do the J&R. I'm sure with the right tuner it'll totally transform the car. It desperately needs more mid/low end pull too; it would make it so much easier to drive around town.
I couldnt agree with anx more...
OP you are just going by numbers 300-315...you have to see where the J series makes power and what bolt ons....I think the highest a 6MT type-s has dynoed is for 296WHP and 260-ish WTQ (hope my memory is serving me correct)...to get past the maginal number you might want to looking into:
1> Fully bolted on
2> Porting the heads
3> Cams/Springs/Retainers/Rods Upgrades
4> ECU/Tune
5> Compression of 12.5
The I think you are looking at 330-350whp on an NA J series....
You also mentioned ~50whp with the bolt ons and I highly doubt that...
07-28-2011, 05:25 PM
#36
Safety Car
haha very nice! by the way...who the hell runs a 4.77 ring and pinion?! lol must be some short ass gears! i complain about my 4.08 gearing all the time! i can only image...
07-30-2011, 07:04 PM
#37
07-31-2011, 12:17 AM
#38
I believe you can hang with the Ap2, now, I don't believe for a second your friend's S2K "He smashes on GTO's, Evo's, and STI's all the time" ,,, ..
Oscar
.. Oscar
Last edited by oscar_driver; 07-31-2011 at 12:20 AM.
07-31-2011, 12:46 AM
#39
He's got a geared 4.57 built differential, full bolt-ons, weight reduction + hardtop, RPF1's 17x9, FlashPro, and a very sick launch + fast shifts. Bone stock S2000's have hit 13.6-13.7 @ 100-101 MPH in the 1/4 mile for reference.
An interesting, relevant anecdote would be your NSX: most of them run low 13's bone stock, which isn't impressive these days. With full bolt-ons + gears, NA 97+ NSX's have run 12.1-12.2 in the 1/4 mile @ 110+ MPH.
08-01-2011, 01:05 PM
#40
Riiight, because I'm just going to make that up. He's got a geared 4.57 built differential, full bolt-ons, weight reduction + hardtop, RPF1's 17x9, FlashPro, and a very sick launch + fast shifts.
Bone stock S2000's have hit 13.6-13.7 @ 100-101 MPH in the 1/4 mile for reference.
An interesting, relevant anecdote would be your NSX: most of them run low 13's bone stock, which isn't impressive these days. With full bolt-ons + gears, NA 97+ NSX's have run 12.1-12.2 in the 1/4 mile @ 110+ MPH.
He's got a geared 4.57 built differential, full bolt-ons, weight reduction + hardtop, RPF1's 17x9, FlashPro, and a very sick launch + fast shifts. Bone stock S2000's have hit 13.6-13.7 @ 100-101 MPH in the 1/4 mile for reference.
An interesting, relevant anecdote would be your NSX: most of them run low 13's bone stock, which isn't impressive these days. With full bolt-ons + gears, NA 97+ NSX's have run 12.1-12.2 in the 1/4 mile @ 110+ MPH.