cj1raven

I bought my 06 Tl a year ago and they gave me 2 years of scheduled maintanance with the car. Last weekend, I went to a dealership outside Boston to get a B1 service (oil change, rotate tires, inspect various things). Before I went in, I marked the tires to see if they rotated them. After a half hour in service, they had me sign off on the work and gave me the keys. I walked outside to my car and looked at the wheels. NONE were switched. I went back in and spoke to the women in service that wrote me up. I told her they weren't changed. She turned back to the service tech, who was in the area at the time and asked him if he rotated them. He said yes. I immediately said, "no you didn't, I marked the tires". Both him and the service writer walked out to the car and I showed them the tires and the tech said to give him the keys and he'll do it again. As he did it again the Service Writer said that the service manager would be made aware of the problem and would get in contact with me. I told her I marked them because I used to be a sales consultant at a dealership before and I've heard plenty of stories of cutting corners. (ex. Jiffy Lube forgetting to put oil back in cars or recommending services that didn't need to be done) She immediately said we're no Jiffy Lube and this will be taken care of.

I received a call from the Service Manager a couple of days later and he said he will talk to the tech, and he said this tech has never had anything like this happen before against him. I told the Manager that most people probably don't know to mark the tires and that is why the tech hasn't been caught.

I wanted to tell you guys the story so you don't have it happen to you. ALWAYS check the dealerships work.

On a seperate note, they originally tried to charge me for the service. I told them it's supposed to be free, which they checked on. They had said the service was supposed to be $150. Does that sound a little high for and oil change and tire rotation (you know they probably aren't really checking the other things in the service plan)?

genghis82

Sorry to hear that. I had the dealer do the same, but mine was more minor. I was having them do a 30k service and it was supposed to include a washing and vacuuming. When I received the car, I noticed nothing was cleaned and it was checked off. I called into the service department and told them that it made me think that they may have cut corners on other parts of the services. They ended up apologizing and giving me a free oil change.

Chanrith

Wow, that makes me uneasy about having any work done at the stealership. I mean at least at jiffy lube you get to sit and watch what they do. I think I'll stick to doing my own maintenance and keep records of it via ownerlink.

mlody

I glad that I got brembo breaks. If I know that I need to go for a service that involves tire rotation, I just skip washing my car for 2-3 weeks to the point that front wheels get really dirty. Even if they go trough the car wash, the wheels will still leave dust marks, so unless someone wipes them with clean cloth, I am able to tell if they rotated or not. I typically tell them to not car wash, casue when I do it, I pull over right after the car wash to clean the wheels, otherwise they look very ugly with dirt spots all over them.

dr mikeylu

How do you mark the tires..and which system do you use..do u just mark them 1,2,3,4? and where do you do it on the tire and with wat kind of marker?

XjoEnX

iTrader: (2)

wow that blows. im glad my sacramento dealer has windows in the waiting room, i can see everything they do to the car while i wait.

dwest1023

Its sad to say, you can't trust anybody these days. I do my own work, and only use the dealer for warranty work. Those checkup are nothing but pure profit for the dealer anyway.

ChicagoBurbs

Farging bastages!!!!

Good catch!!

I always mark stuff when I know they're supposed to change or rotate (like LF, LR, RF, RR on the inside of the tire with chalk, or my initials on filters, etc.). I once caught my dealer not changing oil and air filters that I paid for. And yeah they were EMBARASSED when I proved they didn't do what they charged me for. They wound up giving me the entire service free (it was a biggie...30K service on my Maxima, valued at about $350). After that the service writer always verified and proved everything on my car...and returned used parts to me (WITH my markings on them).

It definately shakes your confidence in them when they pull that crap though, doesn't it? But it feels so good...like the guy on that show that snags the pervs who make dates with kids on the internet.

Johndoyle

For those who don't mark parts and double check, how many times to they get ripped off? Also, for something as simple as a tire rotation -- no parts, 5 minutes labor. Man! How about timing belts? Or when they tell you they replaced the water pump or tensioner? The things you really can't see are the ones that scare me. How many people pay for valve adjustments that don't get them? Maybe you need to go back to the old practice of simply asking for your old parts back. At least you can see if the work was done.

My pet peeve is valve stems. They always charge you for them and tell you that you must have them when you buy new tires, and I agree that it is a sensible practice. I have had several episodes of techs not replacing the valve stems. If I marked them with paint (my favorite method), I have proof. But getting them to dismount and remount your brand new tires is cold comfort. And then you have to trust them to balance the wheels correctly. It makes me sick, such petty thievery. If you're going to be a criminal, at least be a big enough criminal so there's some payoff, not to save 5 minutes or a $1.00 valve stem! Jeez!

kappa821

i do the same, i have a scratch on one of my rims, i use that as my marker

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Good catch!

My daughter & son in law have a 2005 Jeep Hemi Grand Cherokee with no cost full service until 36,000 miles. As he marked the oil filter and tires before she took it in for service, the deaaalership never changed the oil or filter, nor did they rotate the tires, but they did put a scratch in the back bumper cover.
When they were caught, they claim the service was missed by the techs do to an error in paperwork.

jscout

Which dealership is this? Just the name of the town would suffice if you don't want to say the name. It doesn't sound like the one I use. Thanks.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

definately post the name of the dealer for the benefit of others. $150 seems high....

sho_nuff1997

iTrader: (2)

I bought my 2004 tl in april. I have put only 5,000 miles on it so far. I took it back to the dealer I bought it from (a Honda Dealership) within the first week so they could replace all the rotors and the pads. About a month after that I had to put new tires on, after the dealer supposedly replaced them before I bought it. I had the Acura replace the HFL twice. There was also a rattle in the passenger door (still rattling), and the sunroof wind deflector fell off. All of this was under warranty. Last week I took it in for a whine coming from the trans (6MT). they took it apart and found the inner bearings were almost flat, and the ring gears are screwed up (this is warranty). They also found that the clutch was almost finished and the flywheel was badly scored. wtf? I only put 5k on this car (it has 42,000 now). this, of course, is not warrantied. $500 for a frikkin flywheel and $320 for a clutch. "the good news is you will save $800 in labor cuz the trans is already out" is wut the service manager told me. huh. I called the dealer I originally purchased the car from and told them about this and they said they will "take care of me". wut does that mean? I like the car and want to keep it, but come on, aren't the supposed to inspect a car before they sell it? well that's the end of my venting.

godfather2

i smell STEALERSHIP

KJSmitty

As I have said 100 times before.... (Coming from someone who spent 8+ years at a pretty good dealership)


Definitions:

Car Dealerships = Fraud

Fraud = Car Dealerships

They can only screw you if you let them.....

GUMP

I had a similar problem 2 weeks ago. I had my 04 in for a problem with my HFL. They tell me not to worry since it's covered under a service bulletin..they keep my car for the weekend since they have to order the part. I get my car back and a week later it still doesn't work. I take the car back and they tell me it was never switched out, even thought they told me it would be and it was on the invoice. They argue that they didn't change it since they couldn't recreate the problem. I told them THEY told me it was not working and it was covered. They couldn't understand why I was so upset. They told me they made a mistake. I hung up telling them not to touch my car and I was coming over. Ten minutes later they realized they really screwed up and had no way out of it. They apologized and replace the HFL...can you image how many other screwups are happening..make sure you check everything when they return the car. I never check when I get my oil changed there..I will now!

RSA_Secure

I would be more concerned if they don't change the oil or filter......or along the same lines...transmission fluid etc.

iamthebert

It makes me worry too! I actually had a similar experience. I caught the dealership didn't rotate my tires simply because one of my tires had a patch on it.

Can someone tell me how can I check if they've changed my oil and filter?

geekybiker

Mark the drain bolt. If they've changed the oil, the marks more than likely wont line up. the filter is easy, just mark it somewhere inconspicuous.

black label

I would guess the dealership was in Framingham, they like to offer 2 years of free service (works out to 4 oil changes and 2 tire rotations by their math). Am I right?

You mentioned that you went to a dealer "outside of Boston", is it the same dealer yuo bought the car from? The 2 year service plan would be offered by the dealer, not through Acura.

I'm hoping it's not where I work, I feel we have a great service department. However, if it was us who did this, I'll make sure the ownership, the GM, and the service manager are aware of the 100000+ Acura owners who are hearing about it.

KB1Spec

iTrader: (4)

It is good to know. Next time I go to the dealer to get my service, I'll make sure to MARK everything that needed to be replace or change. Just to be on the safe side.

01tl4tl

The oil filter will be shiny new on the outside- look under the car in front of passenger side wheel, and the oil will be a golden clear color on the dipstick-

exception for certain hi tech special blend oils with their own colors

a little dab of paint or permanent marker- on a valve stem- will let you know if they rotated them front to back and if wheels were rebalanced- there will be clean spot where old weights were removed

narnia

Heh, why am I not surprised? Every time I bring my car in for a rotation I think of marking the tires but I've never actually done it - now I'm going to.

I know everyone recommends not going to the stealership, but I can't do these things myself. Even if I went to an independent shop, how would I know they weren't ripping me off too?

black label

I'd think you would have to worry more about an independent shop. If a dealer screws you, there is a long chain of people who you can complain to and a lot more accountability. If the independent shop screws you, you can complain to the owner and it ends there unless you sue.

lusid

Typically with an independent shop, they want your business, so they try to avoid those "short cuts" and do the right job no?

Who knows now adays though.

berite100

dont know i wasnt happy with valley streams acuras service. you have to becareful what they say too... like they will rotate the tires if they need to be. so i dont understand why i am being billed for a service i might get?

sandiegodrive

Thanks for this thread. Will mark all parts before future service at Acura dealerships.

jd34

cj1raven,
what dealership outside of boston, i would like to know b.c i live in MA and would like to avoid if possible. thanks

lembowski

iTrader: (1)

I mark my oil filter for oil changes. I rotate my own tires, so I don't cut any corners........

Its just difficult to change my oil in my parking structure.

I'd stay away from that dealer in the future

BlacuraTL-S

iTrader: (3)

They ripped you off...an oil change and tire rotation should not cost more than $50

My dealership Rosenthal Acura charges $42.95

Tell your dealership that you spoke to acura client services and they said to give you a free aspec kit for ripping you off...

black label

He was getting the B1 service, it's more than an oil change and tire rotation (although apparently it is less than that where he went).

They are also supposed to remove the brake pads and inspect brake wear, then clean the brakes up. There are a few other items that also get inspected for wear.

The big issue here is that they are not doing the work he paid for.

smr2112

And I bet this happens more than you'd think which is why I am
starting to hate my dealer. I found a local place with is plenty
competent and that's where I go now.

I am pretty sure that I paid for a front brake job and never got the
work. After having it done (cut rotors and changed brake fluid) it
felt a bit better. Then 4k miles later I had it in for inspection and
was told the front brakes still had 1/2 life left (8B) - what????

I said I just had it done 4k miles ago after first change at 30k miles.
The service manger's response was, "where did you have it done?"
and it was at that very dealership. So then I was told "I must
be driving alot of stop and go, pretty normal"... they probably
just cut rotors that were glazed and felt good enough to make
it seem like they were replaced.

So that was the end of that dealer, really could not 100% prove it.

Moral of the story - get the used parts where possible, or watch
the mechanic if you can.

Good for you! We can all learn from this.

TLspeed

I went in today to get yet another replacement door-latch cover. While waiting the rep informed me I neglected to bring in the car for the 30K service.

I listened to the pitch while looking over all the items to be inspected/adjusted. I asked about how much this service would run and was told '...about $420...'.

WTF?

I've already done everthing on the list myself (brakes, cabin filter, oil change, etc.). Do they really think I'm willing to pay this much for service I'm not even sure I'll receive? Especially after ready threads like this?

On the other hand, maybe the money is worth it for the "test drive vehicle" and "exterior wash" parts of the service.

Steerpike

You can also take pictures of stuff with a digital camera, which acts somewhat as 'proof' in case they dispute the markings, and can serve as a reminder to yourself. You don't have to print them.

I'm most suspicious of 'free' work - at least if they are billing you for the work they are getting some extra money, but stuff they 'have to do' to honor advertizing / sales incentives ('first 2 years service for free') is the scary stuff - absolutely no money coming in, so less chance of them doing it.

A key factor with the independents is that you may be able to build a relationship with the shop. At the dealership, they have the guys up front with ties, and you never talk to the guys who do the work. At a smaller independent, you may be able to talk to the guys who actually do the work, and see if you can 'engage' them in your car - show interest in their work, etc. But that's not always possible and you do run the risk that they are not as 'up' on your car as the dealership. I take my Acura to an independent who specializes in honda/acura/toyota/lexus - not too wide a spectrum.

This is a very depressing topic - there's no easy solution!

chindv

"Inspect what you Expect"

kenny5

Is that why dealerships have signs which say no customers allowed in the service area? I know that their excuse is that insurance does not cover injuries to customers in that area, but may be the real reason is that they don't want you to know or see what they are doing or what they haven't done when they were required to do.

smr2112

Oh and I am sure this is alot of warranty work that
they bill back to Acura, when nothing is wrong, how
would Acura know?

I once went in for an oil and filter. Manager comes out and
says "sorry, car will be a little while longer. The mechanic
accident broke the inside door opener/handle. Don't
worry, it's covered and we have one, he'll fix it right now"

You mean, I've opened that door 10million times and
when I come in hear, the mechanic, who opens the
same doors all day long, brakes my door opening
handle? Crap.... they broke nothing, did nothing
and just sent the bill to Acura. I of course wasn't
charged anything, but it was on my bill as a warranty
repair. That was the weirdest thing that ever happened
to me at the dealer. I never saw the broken part
or cared much but trusted the dealer less than I did
before that.

clsdave

An insider! Only kidding! Actually you're very commendable trying to fix "deliberate situations" at the place you (might) work. Be careful the boss might not want to fix them!


Marking the oil drain plug:
It may always end up aligning to the marks made if it's done by the same person or torqued correctly. I never paid much attention to the drain plug threads but they may only start in one location on the bolt. If that is correct the bolt will always be close to the alignment mark made if set to the same torque. If the torque is different or the threads start in two locations (180 degrees out of alignment) they marks will not match.

As a general note to others most people don't ask for their old parts back. That leaves plenty of old parts available if they aren't thrown out. Just because you received "your old parts" when you asked for then doesn't mean that they were infact your parts, or that your parts were even changed. The only sure way is marking them inconspicuously and verifying the marks after the work is done.

It's terrible having to check or "setup" the person doing work for you. Unfortunately many dealers (salesmen/mechanics) have earned the reputation they have received.

Is the answer telling the responsible person that your brother in law is their Doctor/Dentist and he works in much the same way! It probably wouldn't due much good other than to see the look on their face.

01tl4tl

You have the right to all old parts back- that YOU pay for.
This means any warranty parts are never to be seen by you, but filters and spark plugs and brake pads and old brake rotors can be.
When I ran a shop, I kept every cars parts in a bag with the invoice number on it, offered it to the customer- here- these are your old parts- lets review the wear pattern on each of them, most said thanks throw them away please.
All you have to do is ask at write up for return old parts and it gets written on the work order
Whats NOT on the work order does not happen= plain and simple
Unless the Service Writer is notified by the tech of additional needed repairs-and you get a call telling you how much $$$, there are no freebies at the dealer or most shops
Go and watch from outside, look how the tech keeps his area and tool box-
ask for a few referances with your exact type of car- I don't care how good the are with beemers- can they do a TL correctly!
And meet the Service Manager at any shop- that gets you the good tech

And its all about the tech-
some are great-they do diagnosis and major service jobs and find problems and get paid well
Some are OK- they get the service jobs and brakes and medium pay- may spend time looking over car for any extra work they can make money on
and finally:
The low man- does rotations and oil changes and works saturday, never spots additional work needed because does not want to do any extra work- may also drive cars on lot and thru car wash and drive shuttle van

Private shops not much better, the stories I could tell you of finding cold open
can of beer next under a car hood at 10am- and the tech said- "it came in with that!"

Wow- that had to defy no less than 3 basic laws of physics-
to transport an open can of beer in the engine compartment and have it arrive 2 hours later cold and foamy- amazing~
To this day, I still wonder why that customer would even do such a thing